Ex-Premier Thaksin Return To Thailand Not Possible: Deputy PM Suthep

[OzMick]

I think the poster trisailer thinks without emotional intervention, which is positive thinking There are two things that govern the Universe and we are a part of the Univers, positive and negative and before anyone comments I fully understand that there needs to be negative to balance the positive. Actions are what count not words not reading not knowledge but actions. Academics will never make a Ghandi, Good actions generate good actions, and bad generate bad. Like it or not Taksin is venerated in much of thailand and many would prostrate before him, As the Taksin we are all talking about, he will be loved and hated, but with the heart of Ghandi, he would be immortalised and do great things, nothing is not reversable one only needs the heart and will. He was blessed as a leader, he should lead with heart not greed

You do rabbit on with some right old fanny. Thaksin with the heart of Ghandi; more like Al Capone, or Caligula. And if all this karma BS is true, why will a murderous thief die in luxury while the millions of people he deluded and stole from will still be slaving away for a few baht a day - most of them in an uneconomic industry that he continued to prop up rather than reform.

And don't bother with the arrogance, and where is buddha's compassion crap, you've already done it to death. Religious converts are the most boring species on the planet.

[trisailer]

Quite obviously you have read little of Lincoln and the world he was forced to deal with.

What do you suggest that I read that will change the fact that over a million people died, 1/3 of the country was burned, it took 50 years for the economy to recover and over a million veterans had to live with disabilities (my relatives among them) and blacks never realized freedom for another 100 years. Are any of those facts in dispute?

If the issue was slavery the government could have purchased the slaves for far less than the cost of the civil war like other countries of the time did. BTW how many other countries eliminated slavery without civil war, got a number?

What "world" was he faced with that forced him to chose war? Your claiming to be better read, enlighten me.

[rixalex]

You do rabbit on with some right old fanny.

Actress to bishop.

[Britannia]

I am bemused as to why someone believed Buddhas teachings as crap, would decide to live in Thialand

I. unlike other posters would not proclaim to have never been the bad guy.

Not a religiouse convert at all, just study my own mind, see what is driven by emotion and what is driven by clear thinking.

Anger greed revenge, they are in side all of us, some give in to them others conquer them

Read how to have a beautiful mind by Edward De Borna, nothing religiouse there

[OzMick]

I am bemused as to why someone believed Buddhas teachings as crap, would decide to live in Thialand

I. unlike other posters would not proclaim to have never been the bad guy.

Not a religiouse convert at all, just study my own mind, see what is driven by emotion and what is driven by clear thinking.

Anger greed revenge, they are in side all of us, some give in to them others conquer them

Read how to have a beautiful mind by Edward De Borna, nothing religiouse there

Try being amused instead. If I ruled out every country whose dominant religion I found ridiculous, I'd end up on a deserted island. It's easier to sit back, enjoy life and watch the idiots with their silly beliefs.

I also avoid self-help books like the plague.

[matador007]

What ??!!!

He's only facing 2 years of jail and he is in exile for that ??

I know and have heard all about the conditions of Thai Jails, but surely he can do his 2 years and move on in his life from there.

I wouldn't be on the run from my home country for a piddly 2 years... I could understand people facing life sentences, and otherwise lengthy jail sentences.

Also I think he might come out better (more popular? greater support?) with his followers -- as a man who took his punishment, not run away from it.

Real sad all this for only 2 years, if thats all it is.

The problem is my friend you do not have his warped mind so pointless comparing yourself.

Well, don't forget he's also facing 5 additional charges upon his return. The court can't proceed on these new charges until he returns. So it's a bit more than just the 2 years.

Ahh ok.. thats what was missing. Seemed odd to avoid returning for a 2 year sentence.

Thanks.

[animatic]

Quite obviously you have read little of Lincoln and the world he was forced to deal with.

What do you suggest that I read that will change the fact that over a million people died, 1/3 of the country was burned, it took 50 years for the economy to recover and over a million veterans had to live with disabilities (my relatives among them) and blacks never realized freedom for another 100 years. Are any of those facts in dispute?

If the issue was slavery the government could have purchased the slaves for far less than the cost of the civil war like other countries of the time did. BTW how many other countries eliminated slavery without civil war, got a number?

What "world" was he faced with that forced him to chose war? Your claiming to be better read, enlighten me.

But Lincoln didn't force the issue, as you so wrongly state, and only dealt with the world as it confronted him, and agonized to his dying day about the loss of lives and injury. You clearly are not reading any first hand sources, only historical re-writes from a biased angle. Like 'Cliff Notes for the Neo Revisionist'.

I have read original texts from 1860s as well as more current and historically better sourced versions benefiting from current information technologies and research. You are just plain wrong on most of your assertions about him.

http://www.civilwarhome.com/casualties.htm

600-700 thousand at most.

You can't purchase what people do not want to sell.

1/3 of the country was not burned. not even 1/100th.

The industrial revolution was coming in, in full force, and 20 years later the economy was moving strongly. The rail roads would span the nation, shipping and world commerce w3as booming.

Not without later cyclical downturns.

The African Americans blacks got freedom immediately,

they just didn't get social parity for 100 years after.

This is way off topic, but needed addressing.

Go tell you old uni prof he was clueless.

Edited June 19, 2011 by animatic

[Britannia]

Anger. Frustrations, insults, Self Help? commenting about something without knowledge, blind belief, letting the mind rule the ego. GAME SET AND MATCH

[animatic]

I am bemused as to why someone believed Buddhas teachings as crap, would decide to live in Thialand

I. unlike other posters would not proclaim to have never been the bad guy.

Not a religiouse convert at all, just study my own mind, see what is driven by emotion and what is driven by clear thinking.

Anger greed revenge, they are in side all of us, some give in to them others conquer them

Read how to have a beautiful mind by Edward De Borna, nothing religiouse there

Try being amused instead. If I ruled out every country whose dominant religion I found ridiculous, I'd end up on a deserted island. It's easier to sit back, enjoy life and watch the idiots with their silly beliefs.

I also avoid self-help books like the plague.

50-60 % of all religions espouce the same or similar ideas.

The remain 40-50% is all different and leads people to be

rude, intolerant, divisive and sometimes murderous & genocidal.

I'll go with what they all agree with and ignore the rest.

Not Buddhist, but I've read much of Buddha and he makes good sense.

As with any sectarian dispute, it's a problem only when

LIVING MEN try to interpret texts, and then try to control followers

via those interpretations.

Edited June 19, 2011 by animatic

[virtualtraveller]

Thaksin seems to flip between shrewd scheming and outright cockeyed optimism. Unless his yes men have forgotten to tell him that he's at once both Thailand's most popular and hated man at the same time, coming back to Thailand is going to elicit a full scale riot, and any fool can see what it will do the country to provoke that, no matter how many red shirts you have in your private 'army'.

If he's patient, and sits in Dubai, pulling the strings, for another year, Thais will forgive and forget, his government can pressure the other side into compromising deals, some sort of suspended sentence might be palatable to his enemies and the public, Yingluck can gain credibility and PT get on with the economic wizardry they believe they are capable of.

Apart from the fishy timing of his daughter's wedding, if Thaksin makes it back into the country a free man, within 6 months of his lot taking office, he can expect to be 'taken care of'. I'll feel appalled for the future of the country if it was that easy to whitewash someone once you've got hold of the reigns of power, just imagine how quickly the Dems could whitewash the army when they pull off another coup.

[relidiousenut]

Um, history is a bit confussing when searching for the truth. If you were not there, how can you know the truth? you choose to believe or not to believe, but you can not possibly know!

Historians of past are not unlike reporters of today, they write with bias and from their point of view, so to say that is or that is, is in its self just blind belief

History is a guide book, so we can look back and see what went wrong and try to correct it. How can you possibly know what Lincoln felt, someone writing it does not make it so, unless you were there you can not objectively comment on his feelings

[Ricardo]

Also, maybe you should ease up on the Fox news.

Ouch, now that's really cutting !

[metisdead]

A number of posts have been removed as a poster made his reply to a post inside the quote tags. When replying to certain parts of a post, learn how to use the Insert quotation feature:

Replies to those posts have been removed as well.

[selftaopath]

"All 65 million Thais might find it unacceptable"

All of 'em? Ha, ha! Wait and see K. Suthep, wait and see.

You wait and see. It ain't gonna happen. Ms Yingluck may get in, she may form a coalition, but Thaksin isn't coming back. Actually, for the things he cares about, it's not that important to come back. It's not like he has any regard for the place or people. He can mine Thailand from afar, just like his blood diamonds.

God, I hope i never meet one of you people that love the taste of his shit.

Here Here. Nice. Many would believe the world would be a better place w/ out this egomaniac.

[ianbaggie]

Every now and then I ask myself, what kind of person could possibly support Thaksin...

Suit yourself. The most money I ever made was from a series of pyramid schemes run by a "friend"...

...so far I haven't been impressed by the moral fiber of his supporters.

Wholeheartedly agree.

It provided a very revealing insight.

Proved what? That you can cut and paste peoples comments out of context. Please share with us your revealing insight. Is this the guilt by association strawman argument?

It's late, I understand.

Have to say I understood his point - I believe cutting and pasting to be a far more innocent pastime than condoling corrupt practices like pyramid schemes.

[ianbaggie]

I would just like to know who those greatest minds of the 20th Century were, that would be interesting: Names please

I do not read anything in the posters post ,that suggest he has an affection for criminals, am I missing something or is this just opinion?

Pyramid schemes are illegal. Thaksin is a criminal.

You can do your own research on democracy

Rather an emotional reaction, the man talks a lot of sense, everybody can talk but very few can listen, perhaps we should do away with ears, they are never used, The man comments his statements are from his own observations, that is commendable as most people get their opinions second hand.

The whole insurance business, banking business communication business is immoral, but legal, why are imoral things legal, simply because imoral people make the laws, Does that make it right because its legal? Further I have had my own interpretation of democracy for a long time: My opinion but only my opinion. Democracy is where we are all freely allowe to vote for whoever we want to dictate to us for the next period 4 - 5 years

Change yourself do not try to change others

Instead of trying to impress on us all that you have a more venerated position than the rest of the human race could you post a link to one of Khun T's comments that make a lot of sense - and dont post "democracyyyy - haa loy baht"!!

[ianbaggie]

As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy.

Abraham Lincoln

Personally, I quite admire his philosophy.

Lincoln was a complete failure IMO. He let the civil war happen which killed over a million people and destroyed the American economy for many decades. It is beyond me how anyone can think that was a good thing. The slave's that he "freed" had it much worse than before they were "freed" and a third of the country was burned to the ground.

You do realize that 200 century's is 20,000 years, right? You did say 20 century's BTW and 20 century's ago democracy was a very small social experiment in Greece as a result of a popular uprising, that in actuality wasn't democracy at all. Rome fiddled with it, but kept going back to the autocracy. Nowhere else in the world was democracy being practiced 2,000 years ago, it represented only .1% of the worlds population and it only took hold because of the failure of the autocracy's to appease the people in the 1700's. Google "evolution of democracy" and learn something besides the propaganda the you were taught to believe.

Humans want LEADERSHIP! they are starved for it and they will follow great leaders to the death. The problem is that democratic process does not produce great leaders at all. They show up from time to time randomly just like great autocrats did. So humans are right back where they started with suffering with poor leadership.

Ghandi was a great leader. He ran the British out of India and held the opposing forces together to form a coalition government and he did it all without violence. People supported him and trusted him because they knew he loved them and he was willing to live simply in spite of having a choice.

200 was a typo.

I'm well aware of Athenian democracy and IMHO .1% is probably an overestimate. Lincoln corrected a great social evil but perhaps in your opinion the price was too high - I doubt that most African Americans would agree with you.

You continually run down democracy but fail to mention, or perhaps notice, the huge flux of people voting with their feet and moving from autocratic to democratic regimes. Strangely enough, these are the greatest advocates of democracy, much more than many , like yourself, who have brought up in a democratic state. Perhaps it's because they have tried both.

I have mixed feelings about Ghandi. As a person, the man was a hypocrite refusing to let his wife be treated by western medicine (she died) while later accepting treatment for himself. Perhaps he learned, or perhaps it had to do with his penchant for sleeping with very young women 2 at a time - supposedly it helped his arthritis.

I have similar feelings about MLK, a christian minister who would shag anything that would lie down. At least he had some achievements unlike many others of similar habits in that profession.

Personally I believe Lincoln to be a warmonger in the extreme with a heck of a lot of blood on his hands - its OK to abolish slavery but how can you do that and not care about leaving 30% of your country with no economy - you talk about Gandhi - if Lincoln had been a great man - he would have abolished slavery and at the same time bought in an economy to support that lost by the South. As it was Lincoln was a bully who KNEW the North was too strong for the South and therefore didnt feel democracy was necessary. Remember the US constitution legally allowed slavery at the time the LAST state suceded. Not off topic really - some would say that there is a very great similarity between the way Lincoln gained popularity and the way that Yingluck has been elevated into a position of acceptance as a serious candidate.

[ianbaggie]

Anger. Frustrations, insults, Self Help? commenting about something without knowledge, blind belief, letting the mind rule the ego. GAME SET AND MATCH

Does that mean youre going to try to cleanse yourself of these ills?

[KKK]

There is nothing to stop Taksin from returning, but if he did, straight to jail with him, which is where he belongs.

[trisailer]

Have to say I understood his point - I believe cutting and pasting to be a far more innocent pastime than condoling corrupt practices like pyramid schemes.

The topic is not about pyramid schemes. I'll take it that your obsession with pyramid schemes has something to do with you inability to make and defend an intelligent point on the TOPIC.

Still no one has made a case for why Abhisit is the better choice for Thailand.

So far the "demonstrated abilities" column, as I see it (and continue to learn about) is Thaksin = 1, Abhisit = 0

[sbk]

Notification to all political posters:

Defamatory posts will not be tolerated

Abusive posts will not be tolerated

Inflammatory posts will not be tolerated

This nonsense will cease in these threads. Members will find their posting rights suspended until after if they cannot maintain civility and follow forum rules and this will be done without any prior notification other than the warn. This IS your notification.

TONE IT DOWN NOW

[newermonkey]

"Speaking to reporters in his capacity as Democrat Party secretary-general, Mr Suthep said it is not possible for Mr Thaksin to return home, otherwise he would in effect be the only Thai who is above the law, that is the judgement of the courts."

What a joke ! As the wikileaks site shows, the laws have been modified after the coup to justify the coup and to find Mr Thaksin guilty of corruption. He can't be convicted for breaching a law that didn't exist at the time he was PM.

Please check here : http://en.wikipedia....i/Retroactivity

Thaksin is not above of the law, he is a victim of a law that has been corrupted by the coup makers and their appointed government.

Wikileaks documents are now available, check for yourself.

You are wrong.

The article in Wikipedia regarding retroactivitiy is only talking about US law and not Thai law, in fact Thailand follows UK law closer, because of this countries reforms enacted by the beloved king Rama 5th. in the past brought western law and particularly the United Kingdoms justice system to Thailand along with abolishing slavery, brought basic human rights and a lot of good things for this kingdom. He was given the title Phra Phuttha Chao Luang (พระพุทธเจ้าหลวง - The Royal Buddha) the present day Monachy of Thailand upholds these great gifts to its people.

So through your ignorance please don't distort the facts and try to fool people.

Edited June 20, 2011 by newermonkey

[slapout]

History is a controversial topic, not due to what happened, but due to the people who attempt to justify/oppose what happened and those who were involved in it. Some leaders come along at a time in a countries history, when warts and all they emerge as somewhat of a hero or sometimes, a complete failure. Some appear successful except to those who assassinate them. No matter the end result, most leaders probably believed they were capable of making a positive contribution toward righting some perceived wrongs at the time.

It is almost impossible for those who have lived/experienced the effects of any leader to be completely objective about his/her total performance. That comes with the unbiased, knowledgeable, review of their terms at a later date.

In comparing the two reported leading parties and their proposed fixes, neither can probably be considered a cure all for what most people acknowledge, as Thailand's ills. I do not see how anyone can even start to compare the Thaksin government era and the last couple of years on a basis of 'good for Thailand'. The former is now recognized (its history) as a government that took care of self, family and cronies, with the general population being thrown the scraps.

[jdinasia]

Have to say I understood his point - I believe cutting and pasting to be a far more innocent pastime than condoling corrupt practices like pyramid schemes.

The topic is not about pyramid schemes. I'll take it that your obsession with pyramid schemes has something to do with you inability to make and defend an intelligent point on the TOPIC.

Still no one has made a case for why Abhisit is the better choice for Thailand.

So far the "demonstrated abilities" column, as I see it (and continue to learn about) is Thaksin = 1, Abhisit = 0

Demonstrated ability in this case must include ---

The demonstrated ability to be the most divisive leader in Thai history.

The demonstrated ability to lie cheat and steal to benefit himself and his businesses.

The demonstrated ability to order the war on drugs killing over 1400 innocents .... etc etc etc ..

Yep Thaksin has demonstrated all of that. Abhisit hasn't. --- correct in your scoring.

[newermonkey]

*NEW IDEA*

Singapore is a very business oriented country that seems to run smoothly and looks very stable and its people don't seem to complain and the people don't seem to talk about politics much and don't complain about corruption or drugs problems.

So... I think Thailand should have some talks with Mr. Lee Hsien Loong and have the Singaporean government rent out its services to "run" Thailand. "a sort of franchise agreement" (Thais should understand this: "same same 7")

Of course the current bunch of jokers (sorry politicians) will need to be paid off, correction - "retired"

"End of problem"

Please vote here:

1 : YES

2 : NO

3: ARE YOU JOKING?

4 : DONT KNOW

Pleas tell us a bit about your political views?

I am... 1: Yellow 2: Red 3: Blue 4: Brown: 5: Pink 6: Black 7: Burnt Umber 8: Muddy Grey 9: Totally Transparent

Edited June 20, 2011 by newermonkey

[trisailer]

Have to say I understood his point - I believe cutting and pasting to be a far more innocent pastime than condoling corrupt practices like pyramid schemes.

The topic is not about pyramid schemes. I'll take it that your obsession with pyramid schemes has something to do with you inability to make and defend an intelligent point on the TOPIC.

Still no one has made a case for why Abhisit is the better choice for Thailand.

So far the "demonstrated abilities" column, as I see it (and continue to learn about) is Thaksin = 1, Abhisit = 0

Demonstrated ability in this case must include ---

The demonstrated ability to be the most divisive leader in Thai history.

The demonstrated ability to lie cheat and steal to benefit himself and his businesses.

The demonstrated ability to order the war on drugs killing over 1400 innocents .... etc etc etc ..

Yep Thaksin has demonstrated all of that. Abhisit hasn't. --- correct in your scoring.

Demonstrated ability in this case must include ---

The demonstrated ability to be the most divisive leader in Thai history. Divisive how? All of the conflict has occurred under Abhisit. Things were calm under Thaksin.

The demonstrated ability to lie cheat and steal to benefit himself and his businesses. Cheat who? Lie about what? The vast majority of his money was made by being in the right place at the right time just like bill gates. The government has already recovered the taxes from the sale of his company and the airport issue. I thought the idea of being in business was to "benefit" yourself. As for corruption the cost of corruption in Thailand is about 20% of GDP ($116,953billion US) Seems he's not alone. How corrupt is it when the Army takes over a country in a coup?

The demonstrated ability to order the war on drugs killing over 1400 innocents .... etc etc etc ..Do you really believe that all of these people were Innocent? Funny how the drug problem went away over night don't you think?

Yep Thaksin has demonstrated all of that. Abhisit hasn't. --- correct in your scoring.

You on the other hand have not demonstrated anything other than your misguided opinion. How about some facts to back it up.

Edited June 20, 2011 by trisailer

[Thaddeus]

The demonstrated ability to order the war on drugs killing over 1400 innocents .... etc etc etc ..Do you really believe that all of these people were Innocent? Funny how the drug problem went away over night don't you think?

I think I'll let some one else point out the inaccurate points in that statement.

[hyperdimension]

I thought the idea of being in business was to "benefit" yourself.

That is correct, and is the reason why a big businessman like Thaksin should not be running the country, as he would put his business interests first before the interests of the country.

Here are just some of the Shinawatra clan's business interests: SHINAWATRA’S BUSINESS NETWORK

His decisions for Thailand are going to be influenced not only by whether the people will benefit, but also (and possibly moreover) by whether or not his own businesses stand to benefit.

The potential for conflict of interest is enormous.

Can you imagine the kind of deal he's going to do with a tablet PC manufacturer? Imagine the commission he's going to get by supplying the millions of school children with one each.

[Bkkorupcountry]

Can you imagine the kind of deal he's going to do with a tablet PC manufacturer? Imagine the commission he's going to get by supplying the millions of school children with one each.

Doesn't this sort of thing happen in western economies as well?

[trisailer]

I thought the idea of being in business was to "benefit" yourself.

That is correct, and is the reason why a big businessman like Thaksin should not be running the country, as he would put his business interests first before the interests of the country.

Here are just some of the Shinawatra clan's business interests: SHINAWATRA'S BUSINESS NETWORK

His decisions for Thailand are going to be influenced not only by whether the people will benefit, but also (and possibly moreover) by whether or not his own businesses stand to benefit.

The potential for conflict of interest is enormous.

Can you imagine the kind of deal he's going to do with a tablet PC manufacturer? Imagine the commission he's going to get by supplying the millions of school children with one each.

I think Thaksin's business interests have been put under a microscope and if the democrat's had found any evidence of wrongdoing that he has not already been convicted of (aside from the corruption that would bring them all down) they would have pointed it out.