harris campaign, clean up on aisle Electoral College

[khunup]

This topic has already been beaten to death, but I have a few questions on the topic I haven't seen dealt with elsewhere. A great versus review of the two bikes can be found here:

http://www.alphapro.com/Pattaya-Thailand-Magazine/Aprillooking11/pcxshootout.html

My questions are:

1. How does the PCX handle in the mountains vs the Nouvo Elegance?

I rented a fairly new PCX (only 1000km) and drive it from Chiang Mai to Chiang Rai. On the steep inclines the bike dropped speed and steadied at 80 km/hour (I weigh 82 kg). This is plenty fine, however I'm wondering if the PCX would be underpowered trying the same trip with 2 people on the bike. At around 20 kg heavier than the Elegance and less the 10cc is the PCX not a bit underpowered? I'd love to see a 135cc PCX.

2. Resale value and resale-ability

The fact seems to be everywhere that Honda's will have a better resale value. However I'm wondering, is it easy to resell a PCX in Thailand? They're pricier which knocks out most Thais in the market for a bike. I'd assume it would be easier to resell a Nouvo. If you can't resell the bike, then resale value is a moot point. Thoughts?

3. Safety - seems like the PCX wins hands down, right?

With the heftier weight, wider tires and excellent rearview mirrors, I don't think there is really any discussion here.

4. Parking

A lot of reviews mentions zipping in and out of traffic which makes the PCX less desirable. I'm less concerned with that, but parking is more of a concern. I've already been in 3 or 4 parking situations where I came back to my bike (I'd rented some other lighter bikes before too) and had to lift my bike and move it around to get out. This wouldn't have been possible with the PCX.

Curious as to what thoughts are on these topics...

Thanks!

[katabeachbum]

I have yammy 135, pcx and airblade

yammy stronger up the hills. Loaded much stronger. Pulling heavy, like 100kg rider, 60 kg Gf and trailer with 55 kg rottweil, only yammy gets up

both pcx and airblade overheat auto belt&pulley, and it starts to slip, even on Hondas never pulled trailer. Vibrations from auto present on all +10k km I have tried

was riding a 3 year old yammy 135 last night, took me a while to realize I had picked this old bike, its 25.000km on it, auto/engine pulls like new, only replaced item is tyres in addition to scheduled service. The rider for 3 years on this bike is 140kg ad his 25kg daughter for daily schoolruns.

safety, well I find the front brake and larger dim wheel better on yammy

pcx has a big bike mini TMax feel to it due to large plastic panels and more weight, which I like. as long as we have one yammy for the beach trailer, I prefere pcx for the rest

resale yammy, the one in the picture, 7 years old and 40k km fetched 20k baht.

One year old 45k.

[HDRIDER]

I am riding my PCX in the hills of Phuket all the time and i think it handles better than the Nouvo, (i just sold my Nouvo) It is very easy to modify the variator so acceleration is much better,,, i know all the people say buy a bigger bike, i have a bigger but do this for fun.

Its easy to sell it looks like, i have seen a few here for sale and they where sold quick it looks like.

Parking, i think this is crap, PCX is not that much wider than the Nouvo, a lot of people say they have problem parking it, i dont get it, maybe they cant park in the first place i never had a problem and after half and hour i was used to the bike

[katabeachbum]

I am riding my PCX in the hills of Phuket all the time and i think it handles better than the Nouvo, (i just sold my Nouvo) It is very easy to modify the variator so acceleration is much better,,, i know all the people say buy a bigger bike, i have a bigger but do this for fun.

Its easy to sell it looks like, i have seen a few here for sale and they where sold quick it looks like.

Parking, i think this is crap, PCX is not that much wider than the Nouvo, a lot of people say they have problem parking it, i dont get it, maybe they cant park in the first place i never had a problem and after half and hour i was used to the bike

but you are comparing the old Nouvo 115 with PCX. Nouvo Elegance 135 is another bike, 14 cm longer wheelbase, 20% more engine, 14 cm longer autobox

[khunup]

I am riding my PCX in the hills of Phuket all the time and i think it handles better than the Nouvo, (i just sold my Nouvo) It is very easy to modify the variator so acceleration is much better,,, i know all the people say buy a bigger bike, i have a bigger but do this for fun.

Its easy to sell it looks like, i have seen a few here for sale and they where sold quick it looks like.

Parking, i think this is crap, PCX is not that much wider than the Nouvo, a lot of people say they have problem parking it, i dont get it, maybe they cant park in the first place i never had a problem and after half and hour i was used to the bike

Thanks for the info, particularly on the selling point. My thoughts about parking are less about width and more about weight. Not and easy bike to 'pick up'. But with all things considered this might be something I could give on. ;-)

[khunup]

I have yammy 135, pcx and airblade

yammy stronger up the hills. Loaded much stronger. Pulling heavy, like 100kg rider, 60 kg Gf and trailer with 55 kg rottweil, only yammy gets up

both pcx and airblade overheat auto belt&pulley, and it starts to slip, even on Hondas never pulled trailer. Vibrations from auto present on all +10k km I have tried

was riding a 3 year old yammy 135 last night, took me a while to realize I had picked this old bike, its 25.000km on it, auto/engine pulls like new, only replaced item is tyres in addition to scheduled service. The rider for 3 years on this bike is 140kg ad his 25kg daughter for daily schoolruns.

safety, well I find the front brake and larger dim wheel better on yammy

pcx has a big bike mini TMax feel to it due to large plastic panels and more weight, which I like. as long as we have one yammy for the beach trailer, I prefere pcx for the rest

resale yammy, the one in the picture, 7 years old and 40k km fetched 20k baht.

One year old 45k.

Thanks for the good info. Love the pic! ;-) This reminds me of another question I forgot to ask. You bought a nice box for the Nouvo. Are similar attachments available for PCX?

[Phatcharanan]

I pretty much agree with comments by HDRIDER.

I have a JCosta variator and have no problems on hills. I am 82 kgs.

Never had any problems with parking either.

[katabeachbum]

I have yammy 135, pcx and airblade

yammy stronger up the hills. Loaded much stronger. Pulling heavy, like 100kg rider, 60 kg Gf and trailer with 55 kg rottweil, only yammy gets up

both pcx and airblade overheat auto belt&pulley, and it starts to slip, even on Hondas never pulled trailer. Vibrations from auto present on all +10k km I have tried

was riding a 3 year old yammy 135 last night, took me a while to realize I had picked this old bike, its 25.000km on it, auto/engine pulls like new, only replaced item is tyres in addition to scheduled service. The rider for 3 years on this bike is 140kg ad his 25kg daughter for daily schoolruns.

safety, well I find the front brake and larger dim wheel better on yammy

pcx has a big bike mini TMax feel to it due to large plastic panels and more weight, which I like. as long as we have one yammy for the beach trailer, I prefere pcx for the rest

resale yammy, the one in the picture, 7 years old and 40k km fetched 20k baht.

One year old 45k.

Thanks for the good info. Love the pic! ;-) This reminds me of another question I forgot to ask. You bought a nice box for the Nouvo. Are similar attachments available for PCX?

Our sponsor Sumetcycle is Honda AP dealer and sells rack and boxes for PCX. I bought a tank bag for my Ninja650 from them, arrived to my door in Phuket day after I sendt money by ATM

[HDRIDER]

Today i saw a PCX with a Givi top box, not the round type but more square, did not look to bad,,, as long it dont get on my bike

[jackcorbett]

I have a little different perspective now on this since breaking my clavicle test riding a Honda CBR 250. The 250 CBR is the real bomb Same type of review, same web site but didn't quite make it round trip as I had a date with the hospital first.

I'll just leave the link up there for those who wish to read my dismal review of the CBR 250 with no happy ending. Still hurting and every time I think of that three inch titanium plate screwed into my clavicle Im thinking car now while using the 135 c.c. Elegance for the short hops around here. Let's see.....1060000 baht for a Mazda 3 with leather interior or a Mazda II for 540,000 baht with the manual versus Honda Civic at 800,000 baht plus and which has a higher resale value?

My point is.....it's really not going to make a dime's worth of difference whether you get higher resale with the 135 Nouvo or the 125 c.c. PCX. Say you drive either one for three years and you wind up selling the PCX for 10,000 baht more or vice versa? That's only 3000 baht more per year which a lot of guys spend for dinner and drinks for two. And as for which one goes up the hills better, neither is in the same league as a Honda 250 CBR but all three of these bikes will break your clavicle with equal aplomb. Just add a little sand and voila.

Both have around 11 horsepower. If you want to go the variator route just go get a 250 CBR or Ninja 250 and be done with it. As far as I can tell both the PCX and the Nouvo are basically 60-65 mph bikes but you won't be wanting to go that fast as they were both designed to be scooters, not high speed highway cruisers. The Elegance is smaller and narrower so yes...it's more agile in traffic. The PCX with its wider tires and heavier weight is going to be a little more stable. It's just a matter of personal preference. And as for acceleration, with its better power to weight ratio the Nouvo Elegance is going to be faster but I really can't feel much difference. As far as hill climbing ability I'd say they'd be about the same. Both are going to be a lot better than say an Air Blade or older model Nouvo MX 115.

And yes........the Elegance 135 is an entirely different animal than the 115 MX. It has much better brakes, it uses less fuel, it has A LOT MORE POWER, and it handles substantially better. Both the PCX and the Elegance are great machines. And when you get either one out on Sukamvit Road you are going to suffer a lot more due to the intimidation of having all those fast moving cars all around you than you ever will be from the lack of enough power and speed.

Edited June 29, 2011 by jackcorbett

[khunup]

I have a little different perspective now on this since breaking my clavicle test riding a Honda CBR 250. The 250 CBR is the real bomb Same type of review, same web site but didn't quite make it round trip as I had a date with the hospital first.

I'll just leave the link up there for those who wish to read my dismal review of the CBR 250 with no happy ending. Still hurting and every time I think of that three inch titanium plate screwed into my clavicle Im thinking car now while using the 135 c.c. Elegance for the short hops around here. Let's see.....1060000 baht for a Mazda 3 with leather interior or a Mazda II for 540,000 baht with the manual versus Honda Civic at 800,000 baht plus and which has a higher resale value?

My point is.....it's really not going to make a dime's worth of difference whether you get higher resale with the 135 Nouvo or the 125 c.c. PCX. Say you drive either one for three years and you wind up selling the PCX for 10,000 baht more or vice versa? That's only 3000 baht more per year which a lot of guys spend for dinner and drinks for two. And as for which one goes up the hills better, neither is in the same league as a Honda 250 CBR but all three of these bikes will break your clavicle with equal aplomb. Just add a little sand and voila.

Both have around 11 horsepower. If you want to go the variator route just go get a 250 CBR or Ninja 250 and be done with it. As far as I can tell both the PCX and the Nouvo are basically 60-65 mph bikes but you won't be wanting to go that fast as they were both designed to be scooters, not high speed highway cruisers. The Elegance is smaller and narrower so yes...it's more agile in traffic. The PCX with its wider tires and heavier weight is going to be a little more stable. It's just a matter of personal preference. And as for acceleration, with its better power to weight ratio the Nouvo Elegance is going to be faster but I really can't feel much difference. As far as hill climbing ability I'd say they'd be about the same. Both are going to be a lot better than say an Air Blade or older model Nouvo MX 115.

And yes........the Elegance 135 is an entirely different animal than the 115 MX. It has much better brakes, it uses less fuel, it has A LOT MORE POWER, and it handles substantially better. Both the PCX and the Elegance are great machines. And when you get either one out on Sukamvit Road you are going to suffer a lot more due to the intimidation of having all those fast moving cars all around you than you ever will be from the lack of enough power and speed.

Ouch, sorry to hear about the unhappy ending with the 250 CBR.

Thanks for the info...your point about resale value is well-taken. Resale value really will be inconsequential. I guess I'm most interested in being able to take comfort that I'll be able to put a bike up for sale and have sell within a month. If I decide to leave Thailand a year or two from now I don't want to have to worry about this.

Regarding acceleration, I think the power to weight ratio differences are really accentuated when driving in mountain regions which is where I live.

Good luck on your Mazda vs Civic review. ;-)

And yes the tradeoffs...stability vs agility...not an easy decision.

[BigBikeBKK]

I have a little different perspective now on this since breaking my clavicle test riding a Honda CBR 250. The 250 CBR is the real bomb Same type of review, same web site but didn't quite make it round trip as I had a date with the hospital first.

I'll just leave the link up there for those who wish to read my dismal review of the CBR 250 with no happy ending. Still hurting and every time I think of that three inch titanium plate screwed into my clavicle Im thinking car now while using the 135 c.c. Elegance for the short hops around here. Let's see.....1060000 baht for a Mazda 3 with leather interior or a Mazda II for 540,000 baht with the manual versus Honda Civic at 800,000 baht plus and which has a higher resale value?

My point is.....it's really not going to make a dime's worth of difference whether you get higher resale with the 135 Nouvo or the 125 c.c. PCX. Say you drive either one for three years and you wind up selling the PCX for 10,000 baht more or vice versa? That's only 3000 baht more per year which a lot of guys spend for dinner and drinks for two. And as for which one goes up the hills better, neither is in the same league as a Honda 250 CBR but all three of these bikes will break your clavicle with equal aplomb. Just add a little sand and voila.

Both have around 11 horsepower. If you want to go the variator route just go get a 250 CBR or Ninja 250 and be done with it. As far as I can tell both the PCX and the Nouvo are basically 60-65 mph bikes but you won't be wanting to go that fast as they were both designed to be scooters, not high speed highway cruisers. The Elegance is smaller and narrower so yes...it's more agile in traffic. The PCX with its wider tires and heavier weight is going to be a little more stable. It's just a matter of personal preference. And as for acceleration, with its better power to weight ratio the Nouvo Elegance is going to be faster but I really can't feel much difference. As far as hill climbing ability I'd say they'd be about the same. Both are going to be a lot better than say an Air Blade or older model Nouvo MX 115.

And yes........the Elegance 135 is an entirely different animal than the 115 MX. It has much better brakes, it uses less fuel, it has A LOT MORE POWER, and it handles substantially better. Both the PCX and the Elegance are great machines. And when you get either one out on Sukamvit Road you are going to suffer a lot more due to the intimidation of having all those fast moving cars all around you than you ever will be from the lack of enough power and speed.

Thanks for the link- that was a very entertaining read. My favorite quote:

"Stupid falang. Thinks he can drive a Honda 250 but obviously he's out of his league."

Glad you're ok. Perhaps you should stick to scooters or retire to a car?

Edited June 29, 2011 by BigBikeBKK

[jackcorbett]

Thanks for the link- that was a very entertaining read. My favorite quote:

"Stupid falang. Thinks he can drive a Honda 250 but obviously he's out of his league."

Glad you're ok. Perhaps it is time to retire to a car?

Glad you liked it. Yep........time to make get a car. Let's see, 20,000 baht a year just for the insurance alone. Makes a lot of economic sense doesn't it? But I think I'll still keep the Elegance as it's always nice to have something to putter around on.

[jackcorbett]

Ouch, sorry to hear about the unhappy ending with the 250 CBR.

Thanks for the info...your point about resale value is well-taken. Resale value really will be inconsequential. I guess I'm most interested in being able to take comfort that I'll be able to put a bike up for sale and have sell within a month. If I decide to leave Thailand a year or two from now I don't want to have to worry about this.

Regarding acceleration, I think the power to weight ratio differences are really accentuated when driving in mountain regions which is where I live.

Good luck on your Mazda vs Civic review. ;-)

And yes the tradeoffs...stability vs agility...not an easy decision.

It will be a fun decision though. You really can't go wrong with either one.

[BSJ]

If you want a scooter with balls just go out and buy a T-max!

[HDRIDER]

Jack,

you drive a Nouvo and then step up to a 250cc have a crach and now you want a car??

not sure what to say about this, good you did not go up to a 600cc or more

[Gary A]

As I got older, I realized that my fast and hard motorcycle riding days were over. Reflexes slow down and your strength are not the same as when younger.

The newer automatic scooters have given me a second chance. I feel fairly safe with my feet in front of me and not so much power to do unintentional wheelies.

After you have ridden motorcycles all your life, giving them up is not an easy thing. I now ride a Yamaha Elegance and am quite happy with it. I would have had a PCX but didn't like the price or the new features.

Tuesday night, I met an old friend. He has a CB 1300. Against my better judgement, I left my truck parked and we took the big Honda to go see another friend. That motorcycle is definitely NOT safe to ride. No motorcycle should have that much power. When we got to our destination, besides being scared, I burned my leg getting off. I took a baht bus back to my nice safe pickup truck.

[jackcorbett]

Jack,

you drive a Nouvo and then step up to a 250cc have a crach and now you want a car??

not sure what to say about this, good you did not go up to a 600cc or more

Actually although I think the 250 CBR is a terrific motorcycle and all one needs to cruise Thailands roads it's a big step down for me. The last bike I owned in the U.S. aside from my Honda 185 XL was a BMW 100 Krs (it had 1000 cc's and 90 h.p.) and I had that bike up to over 220 kph on a bumpy two lane farm service road (what is left of the original highway 66). used to jump in and out of drainage ditches with the 185 and the sides were seven feet high and nearly perpendicular.

The fact is two wheels are simply one helluva lot more dangerous than four. If you read my extensive review of the CBR 250 I wrote that in the first 15 minutes driving it I was amazed at how well I could weave in and out of Pattaya traffic. I've not driven the new CBR 150 except for in a parking lot at the South Pattaya Big C. I rented the old one back in Krabi over a year ago. But my thoughts while driving the 250 were that it would do just as well in city traffic as the new 150 CBR. I was zig wagging in, around and between cars and bikes on 2nd road almost as well as I could have done it on my Nouvo 135. And just a few minutes before I went down on that rental I had pulled off to the side of Sukamvit to get final directions from my friend David to his condo. David had given me horrendous directions. By the time I got off the phone with him the traffic suddenly got congested on that section of Sukamvit Road but I used the bike's acceleration and maneuverability to weave in and out of the cars on my way to that light. Up to that point there was nothing wrong with my command of that bike. What did happen is there was a combination of circumstances that combined to cause the accident. I don't know if that cop was after me or not. Certainly my weaving in and out of traffic got his attention. At the last moment the light stopped functioning. There were people behind me wanting to make that right turn. The northbound traffic on Sukamvit, all three lanes of it had come to a dead stop and it appeared to me that the motorists on both the Southbound and Northbound lanes were all wondering whether they should blow through the traffic lights or not. I decided to go for it before the traffic heading North made a move. I had been already planning in my head what I would do if all of a sudden I had two or three cars heading right at me as I was crossing the Northbound lanes. Lastly.....once I crossed the North bound lanes and got onto the road heading to my friend's condo, I made the mistake of pulling off to the side of the road in order to see if that cop was on my tail or not. I had not eaten breakfast yet. Had I eaten breakfast perhaps I might have been clearer in my thinking and decided to go like a bat out of hell down the road I had turned into knowing there was no way the cop could have caught me even if he was on my tail. As it was, I did exactly what I would have done in the United States and that was to pull over, wait for the cop and then pull out my driver's license, registration, etc. There wasn't much sand on the road and I never saw it as I was thinking of too many other things.

Fast forward to what I observed a few days ago. My girlfriend and I were in the back of a baht taxi heading North on Second Road. The taxi went around the Dolphin Round About and got about fifty meters onto Naklua Road past the round about. There was a motorbike taxi driver behind us and I watched him drive around the circle. I think he was about to turn into Pattaya Nua. He wasn't going fast. He wasn't hot rodding. He was driving exactly as he should have been driving. Then I saw his bike go down. He was slow in getting up. I could find no fault in his driving whatsoever. Unluckily for him he ran into a splattering of sand that he never even saw...couldn't see because he was going in a 360 degree circle and constantly turning. I suppose some people would say that this driver couldn't handle his 125 c.c. Honda Wave and that he should have been driving a Honda 50. Well, he could have been driving a bicycle and he still would have gone down. The culprit is, just as it had been for me when all is said and done...he was on two wheels and had he been on four there would never have been an accident. Watching that Thai motorbike driver do down told me one thing and that's "No matter how good of a driver you are or think you are," driving on two wheels is very dangerous." '

So.....I'm simply urging all of you to never underestimate the dangers waiting for you once you are out on your motorbikes. They are great tools for getting around on and one helluva lot of fun. Just be careful.

Edited June 30, 2011 by jackcorbett

[BigBikeBKK]

Jack,

you drive a Nouvo and then step up to a 250cc have a crach and now you want a car??

not sure what to say about this, good you did not go up to a 600cc or more

Actually although I think the 250 CBR is a terrific motorcycle and all one needs to cruise Thailands roads it's a big step down for me. The last bike I owned in the U.S. aside from my Honda 185 XL was a BMW 100 Krs (it had 1000 cc's and 90 h.p.) and I had that bike up to over 220 kph on a bumpy two lane farm service road (what is left of the original highway 66). used to jump in and out of drainage ditches with the 185 and the sides were seven feet high and nearly perpendicular.

The fact is two wheels are simply one helluva lot more dangerous than four. If you read my extensive review of the CBR 250 I wrote that in the first 15 minutes driving it I was amazed at how well I could weave in and out of Pattaya traffic. I've not driven the new CBR 150 except for in a parking lot at the South Pattaya Big C. I rented the old one back in Krabi over a year ago. But my thoughts while driving the 250 were that it would do just as well in city traffic as the new 150 CBR. I was zig wagging in, around and between cars and bikes on 2nd road almost as well as I could have done it on my Nouvo 135. And just a few minutes before I went down on that rental I had pulled off to the side of Sukamvit to get final directions from my friend David to his condo. David had given me horrendous directions. By the time I got off the phone with him the traffic suddenly got congested on that section of Sukamvit Road but I used the bike's acceleration and maneuverability to weave in and out of the cars on my way to that light. Up to that point there was nothing wrong with my command of that bike. What did happen is there was a combination of circumstances that combined to cause the accident. I don't know if that cop was after me or not. Certainly my weaving in and out of traffic got his attention. At the last moment the light stopped functioning. There were people behind me wanting to make that right turn. The northbound traffic on Sukamvit, all three lanes of it had come to a dead stop and it appeared to me that the motorists on both the Southbound and Northbound lanes were all wondering whether they should blow through the traffic lights or not. I decided to go for it before the traffic heading North made a move. I had been already planning in my head what I would do if all of a sudden I had two or three cars heading right at me as I was crossing the Northbound lanes. Lastly.....once I crossed the North bound lanes and got onto the road heading to my friend's condo, I made the mistake of pulling off to the side of the road in order to see if that cop was on my tail or not. I had not eaten breakfast yet. Had I eaten breakfast perhaps I might have been clearer in my thinking and decided to go like a bat out of hell down the road I had turned into knowing there was no way the cop could have caught me even if he was on my tail. As it was, I did exactly what I would have done in the United States and that was to pull over, wait for the cop and then pull out my driver's license, registration, etc. There wasn't much sand on the road and I never saw it as I was thinking of too many other things.

Fast forward to what I observed a few days ago. My girlfriend and I were in the back of a baht taxi heading North on Second Road. The taxi went around the Dolphin Round About and got about fifty meters onto Naklua Road past the round about. There was a motorbike taxi driver behind us and I watched him drive around the circle. I think he was about to turn into Pattaya Nua. He wasn't going fast. He wasn't hot rodding. He was driving exactly as he should have been driving. Then I saw his bike go down. He was slow in getting up. I could find no fault in his driving whatsoever. Unluckily for him he ran into a splattering of sand that he never even saw...couldn't see because he was going in a 360 degree circle and constantly turning. I suppose some people would say that this driver couldn't handle his 125 c.c. Honda Wave and that he should have been driving a Honda 50. Well, he could have been driving a bicycle and he still would have gone down. The culprit is, just as it had been for me when all is said and done...he was on two wheels and had he been on four there would never have been an accident. Watching that Thai motorbike driver do down told me one thing and that's "No matter how good of a driver you are or think you are," driving on two wheels is very dangerous." '

So.....I'm simply urging all of you to never underestimate the dangers waiting for you once you are out on your motorbikes. They are great tools for getting around on and one helluva lot of fun. Just be careful.

Sure motorcycles are more dangerous than cars. Everyone knows that.

Would it be fair to say that riding a bike requires more skill and a higher degree of attention than driving a car?

Notice how you blame everything and everyone but yourself for dumping the little CB"r"?

You blame your friend for "horrendous directions"

You blame the cop for... making you paranoid?

You blame the traffic...

You blame the broken traffic light...

You blame unclear thinking on your failure to eat breakfast?!

Finally you blame sand on the road...

You claim to be an experienced rider; didn't you learn in all your years on two wheels to expect the unexpected?

As for the motorcycle taxi going down how much do you want to bet the moron had his tires over-inflated to 40 or 50 psi like most motorcycle taxis like to do to here to maximize tire life at the expense of traction?

In fact I wonder if you bothered to check the tire pressure of your rented bike?

You've been here for a while- I'm sure you're aware that overinflated tires are VERY common here in Thailand.

If you don't learn from your mistakes you are doomed to repeat them.

Best of Luck and Happy Trails!

Tony

[HDRIDER]

Well, i have been riding here in Thailand for more than 10 years, i have a few different bikes, also off road and also a very heavy tractor as some will call it, i still dont have any accident here, and i am not young either, been riding bikes since 1975 where i got my first Kawa 350 triple, and here in Thailand sometimes go around the country on big bikes, from Phuket to CM or just around for a few weeks,,, that can ad up to 4-6000km, on my tractor, cruising at about 130-160 if the roads is OK, what i do is thinking that all others on the road drive like crazy and want to kill ME, so far i have won

[HDRIDER]

About the tire pressure, just got 2 new tires on my small bike, front was 42 and back was 46

This was a honda work shop

[CMX]

Jack,

Glad that the damage done was only 6 weeks!

Some may be delighted to rub salt in another's wounds - no sooner do you admit truths to the world (and worse, yourself) in order that we may understand the distractions that can keep us from riding our best than they pour on the salt into wounds you yourself have shown. But your honesty in reporting, of course, can be very helpful to those of us getting tentative, as we begin to mistrust our selves bit by bit, whether it's justified or not..

Nowadays, the more complex the ride, the less confidence I have. And one thing is certainly true - my experiences in the U.S. and Europe driving bikes of any type at all were insufficient for driving here where so many factors are different. With my little Hayate, I have absolute confidence in downtown traffic, and I admit it's because it allows me to focus, focus, focus.

I think it almost noble of you to praise the Honda CBR as your considered opinion, too.

Another interesting aspect was your report of things piling up as problems. Even if they are not difficulties in themselves, one by one, they come to weigh as risk as they add up, I think, in the mind of the driver. Very short-sighted riders (kids, usually) who know no fear or concern may be better drivers, assuming equal experience, because they are totally focused (oblivious ). I might have missed the sand; they and Tony would have seen it?

Edited June 30, 2011 by CMX

[jackcorbett]

Jack,

Glad that the damage done was only 6 weeks!

Some may be delighted to rub salt in another's wounds - no sooner do you admit truths to the world (and worse, yourself) in order that we may understand the distractions that can keep us from riding our best than they pour on the salt into wounds you yourself have shown. But your honesty in reporting, of course, can be very helpful to those of us getting tentative, as we begin to mistrust our selves bit by bit, whether it's justified or not..

Nowadays, the more complex the ride, the less confidence I have. And one thing is certainly true - my experiences in the U.S. and Europe driving bikes of any type at all were insufficient for driving here where so many factors are different. With my little Hayate, I have absolute confidence in downtown traffic, and I admit it's because it allows me to focus, focus, focus.

I think it almost noble of you to praise the Honda CBR as your considered opinion, too.

Another interesting aspect was your report of things piling up as problems. Even if they are not difficulties in themselves, one by one, they come to weigh as risk as they add up, I think, in the mind of the driver. Very short-sighted riders (kids, usually) who know no fear or concern may be better drivers, assuming equal experience, because they are totally focused (oblivious ). I might have missed the sand; they and Tony would have seen it?

I think Tony misunderstood the points I was trying to make as you have pointed out, CMX. That whole thing "of my making excuses" or describing the motorbike taxi driver's accident wasn't about me or the driver. It was about Tony and so many guys like him who fail to realize that no matter how good they might think they are on a motorbike the law of averages is likely to catch up with them. Ironically it's they who are making the excuses...."That motorbike taxi driver has to be an idiot, he must have overinflated his tires" etc. I'd say anyone of us here on this forum would have gone down just like the taxi driver did. That was my entire point of even mentioning the incident. That if a motorbike taxi driver can go down driving just 8 miles an hour around Dolphin Circle that anyone of us can go down at any time, anywhere. Now that's pretty scary.

[JonnyF]

I just read Jack's blog having skim read it at work, it was a good read. Good to hear you're OK Jack, and quite brave of you to post so honestly on here about the events.

I'm assuming it wasn't the ABS model you rented, it sounds like you hit the brakes too hard (understandable on an unfamiliar bike) and lost it on the sand. It sounds like you've convinced yourself to stick with the autos but when you get your confidence back maybe give the ABS version a go on a shorter journey.

I know what you mean about the Auto's though. They're so convenient for popping out to the shops and restaurants. When I was living in Phuket I put 16k on a Nouvo in about 18 months. Still got the thing now, still runs like clockwork and I use it when I want to eat around Sathorn/Silom (BKK) where there's no parking for cars or sometimes even medium sized bikes like the 250. If convenience is your goal then these auto are unbeatable.

Back to the original post though, I'd go for a Nouvo myself - those PCX's are relatively big and heavy which negates a lot of the advantages IMO. I'm not that worried about plush suspension and fuel economy when i'm popping a few kms up the road to park outside a crowded shop/restaurant.

[jackcorbett]

I just read Jack's blog having skim read it at work, it was a good read. Good to hear you're OK Jack, and quite brave of you to post so honestly on here about the events.

I'm assuming it wasn't the ABS model you rented, it sounds like you hit the brakes too hard (understandable on an unfamiliar bike) and lost it on the sand. It sounds like you've convinced yourself to stick with the autos but when you get your confidence back maybe give the ABS version a go on a shorter journey.

I know what you mean about the Auto's though. They're so convenient for popping out to the shops and restaurants. When I was living in Phuket I put 16k on a Nouvo in about 18 months. Still got the thing now, still runs like clockwork and I use it when I want to eat around Sathorn/Silom (BKK) where there's no parking for cars or sometimes even medium sized bikes like the 250. If convenience is your goal then these auto are unbeatable.

Back to the original post though, I'd go for a Nouvo myself - those PCX's are relatively big and heavy which negates a lot of the advantages IMO. I'm not that worried about plush suspension and fuel economy when i'm popping a few kms up the road to park outside a crowded shop/restaurant.

Glad you enjoyed the read JohnnyF. Unfortunately it wasn't the ABS model I rented. Had I had an ABS model there probably would have been no accident (but the read wouldn't be nearly as good either).

I don't want to seem like I'm complaining because at this point the damage is done and there's no undoing it. But, one's perspective changes when you feel the pain and keep feeling it, but that's not all that bad, it's wondering how much one's going to recover. The doctor in Rayong told me I'd lose 10 % of my mobility in my shoulder collar bone area. When I brought this up to the surgeon at the Pattaya Bangkok hospital he told me "That's a best case scenario." That's what got me thinking real hard and long about cars and paying 600,000 baht or paying as much as 1,000,000 baht didn't seem to make one iota's difference to me. That three inch titannium plate screwed into my clavicle was telling me..."It doesn't really matter if you pay a few thousand more or less" because you won't be able to do your usual 45 minute swims for awhile and you can forget about ever winning the world championship middleweight boxing title.

It's not a matter of getting my confidence back up, JohnnyF. About one week ago, for the first time since the accident, I drove my Elegance for the first time----and I drove it a pretty good distance, going from Naklua down Sukamvit all the way down past Threpassit to the Ford dealership as well as north of where I live to the Honda dealership and it felt very good being on two wheels again. It was a lot worse a few years ago when I was going for time closing in on the bicyclist ahead of me and I was hit by an SUV crossing a highway doing a 20 mile run on a bicycle trail. I should have been killed as I was tossed up in the air and wound up only with a couple of minor breaks in my hand. Now that made me gun shy as I didn't want to be anywhere near a highway on that bicycle for a year afterwards.

Anyway.......several hours from now I'm taking delivery of a Honda Civic. So the long distance traveling will be by car from now on. And as far as ABS----I will suggest to everyone that this is the only way to go. If it comes to a choice between a CBR 250 and a Ninja 250, get the CBR WITH ABS regardless of cost until kawasaki offers ABS. If it comes between getting a 650 and the 250 with ABS....get the 250 with ABS.

There's only 55 units in my condo building. In one two week period, a good friend of mine wound up in a hospital for two weeks after riding his motorbike to Jomtien to shoot pool. Hit and run by a car. But Pete didn't live here. Two guys who did---a German friend of mine and a Swedish condo renter friend of his both wound up at Bangkok Pattaya hospital. The German was a victim of another hit and run driver---a motorbike taxi driver who suddenly swerved over two lands of traffic near Big C on 2nd Road and knocked his Honda Phantom. Michael suffered severe ligament damage in his shoulder. Michael's pal, the Swede, had a 900 c.c. Honda. I can't remember exactly how his accident went down but basically the tires of his bike lost their grip (ABS would have saved him) and down he went. I saw both guys limping around at Bangkok Pattaya hospital together like Mutt and Jeff and both suffered from their injuries for months afterwards. Within six months of their accidents another friend of mine lost it in the sand near our condo building. I just happened to be near our condo entrance gate when I saw Patrick drive his Honda Click to the gate followed by one of his friends. He just slumped there perched on his bike fumbling with his key card to get the gate arm open. (and by the way, that kick stand engine shutoff feature Honda has DIDN"T WORK as I had a devil of a time getting Patrick's engine to shut down). Patrick would have been still another candidate for ABS.

I'm sure there are some here who will say we are a bunch of old farts who don't know how to properly ride a motorcycle. My German friend is around 45...he now owns a Kawasaki 650. The Swede was in his thirties I'd say. Patrick would have been around 45. And Pete, who got nailed in Jomtien...well he was on old fart.

Edited July 1, 2011 by jackcorbett

[BigBikeBKK]

I just read Jack's blog having skim read it at work, it was a good read. Good to hear you're OK Jack, and quite brave of you to post so honestly on here about the events.

I'm assuming it wasn't the ABS model you rented, it sounds like you hit the brakes too hard (understandable on an unfamiliar bike) and lost it on the sand. It sounds like you've convinced yourself to stick with the autos but when you get your confidence back maybe give the ABS version a go on a shorter journey.

I know what you mean about the Auto's though. They're so convenient for popping out to the shops and restaurants. When I was living in Phuket I put 16k on a Nouvo in about 18 months. Still got the thing now, still runs like clockwork and I use it when I want to eat around Sathorn/Silom (BKK) where there's no parking for cars or sometimes even medium sized bikes like the 250. If convenience is your goal then these auto are unbeatable.

Back to the original post though, I'd go for a Nouvo myself - those PCX's are relatively big and heavy which negates a lot of the advantages IMO. I'm not that worried about plush suspension and fuel economy when i'm popping a few kms up the road to park outside a crowded shop/restaurant.

Glad you enjoyed the read JohnnyF. Unfortunately it wasn't the ABS model I rented. Had I had an ABS model there probably would have been no accident (but the read wouldn't be nearly as good either).

I don't want to seem like I'm complaining because at this point the damage is done and there's no undoing it. But, one's perspective changes when you feel the pain and keep feeling it, but that's not all that bad, it's wondering how much one's going to recover. The doctor in Rayong told me I'd lose 10 % of my mobility in my shoulder collar bone area. When I brought this up to the surgeon at the Pattaya Bangkok hospital he told me "That's a best case scenario." That's what got me thinking real hard and long about cars and paying 600,000 baht or paying as much as 1,000,000 baht didn't seem to make one iota's difference to me. That three inch titannium plate screwed into my clavicle was telling me..."It doesn't really matter if you pay a few thousand more or less" because you won't be able to do your usual 45 minute swims for awhile and you can forget about ever winning the world championship middleweight boxing title.

It's not a matter of getting my confidence back up, JohnnyF. About one week ago, for the first time since the accident, I drove my Elegance for the first time----and I drove it a pretty good distance, going from Naklua down Sukamvit all the way down past Threpassit to the Ford dealership as well as north of where I live to the Honda dealership and it felt very good being on two wheels again. It was a lot worse a few years ago when I was going for time closing in on the bicyclist ahead of me and I was hit by an SUV crossing a highway doing a 20 mile run on a bicycle trail. I should have been killed as I was tossed up in the air and wound up only with a couple of minor breaks in my hand. Now that made me gun shy as I didn't want to be anywhere near a highway on that bicycle for a year afterwards.

Anyway.......several hours from now I'm taking delivery of a Honda Civic. So the long distance traveling will be by car from now on. And as far as ABS----I will suggest to everyone that this is the only way to go. If it comes to a choice between a CBR 250 and a Ninja 250, get the CBR WITH ABS regardless of cost until kawasaki offers ABS. If it comes between getting a 650 and the 250 with ABS....get the 250 with ABS.

There's only 55 units in my condo building. In one two week period, a good friend of mine wound up in a hospital for two weeks after riding his motorbike to Jomtien to shoot pool. Hit and run by a car. But Pete didn't live here. Two guys who did---a German friend of mine and a Swedish condo renter friend of his both wound up at Bangkok Pattaya hospital. The German was a victim of another hit and run driver---a motorbike taxi driver who suddenly swerved over two lands of traffic near Big C on 2nd Road and knocked his Honda Phantom. Michael suffered severe ligament damage in his shoulder. Michael's pal, the Swede, had a 900 c.c. Honda. I can't remember exactly how his accident went down but basically the tires of his bike lost their grip (ABS would have saved him) and down he went. I saw both guys limping around at Bangkok Pattaya hospital together like Mutt and Jeff and both suffered from their injuries for months afterwards. Within six months of their accidents another friend of mine lost it in the sand near our condo building. I just happened to be near our condo entrance gate when I saw Patrick drive his Honda Click to the gate followed by one of his friends. He just slumped there perched on his bike fumbling with his key card to get the gate arm open. (and by the way, that kick stand engine shutoff feature Honda has DIDN"T WORK as I had a devil of a time getting Patrick's engine to shut down). Patrick would have been still another candidate for ABS.

I'm sure there are some here who will say we are a bunch of old farts who don't know how to properly ride a motorcycle. My German friend is around 45...he now owns a Kawasaki 650. The Swede was in his thirties I'd say. Patrick would have been around 45. And Pete, who got nailed in Jomtien...well he was on old fart.

FYI all new Kawa 650's sold in Thailand are equipped with ABS.

I'm sorry for being an inconsiderate jerk and "pouring salt on your wounds" but from reading your account of your accident I got the impression you thought you did nothing wrong.

Like I said, If you don't learn from your mistakes you are doomed to repeat them.

Your report describes perfectly an "accident chain" where a lot of small factors add up to create a big problem.

I don't know how old you are but we all must admit that our reflexes diminish with age, yes?

I can't tell you the drama that occurred when we took away my 80 yo grandmother's keys because, sweet lady that she was, with her failing eyesight and poor reflexes she was an absolute menace on the road.

As the result of countless age-related accidents many states have now passed laws that require senior citizens to take a test every year to assess if they can still safely operate a motor vehicle.

Trading in your bike for a car will certainly be safer for you, but how about those around you?

Perhaps Thailand should test senior citizens too?

Happy Trails!

Tony

Edited July 1, 2011 by BigBikeBKK

[jackcorbett]

FYI all new Kawa 650's sold in Thailand are equipped with ABS.

I'm sorry for being an inconsiderate jerk and "pouring salt on your wounds" but from reading your account of your accident I got the impression you thought you did nothing wrong.

Like I said, If you don't learn from your mistakes you are doomed to repeat them.

Your report describes perfectly an "accident chain" where a lot of small factors add up to create a big problem.

I don't know how old you are but we all must admit that our reflexes diminish with age, yes?

I can't tell you the drama that occurred when we took away my 80 yo grandmother's keys because, sweet lady that she was, with her failing eyesight and poor reflexes she was an absolute menace on the road.

As the result of countless age-related accidents many states have now passed laws that require senior citizens to take a test every year to assess if they can still safely operate a motor vehicle.

Trading in your bike for a car will certainly be safer for you, but how about those around you?

Perhaps Thailand should test senior citizens too?

Happy Trails!

Tony

Tony...There is no trading in the bike for a car. I'm keeping the Elegance which I will continue to use, especially for the many short hops. For that matter I will continue to use baht taxis...ie...take the Elegance to a bar or restaurant on Naklua Road, then take the 10 baht taxi if going to Walking Street and a few other places at night especially while drinking. The Honda 250 CBR was strictly a rental I rented for one purpose only and that was to do a road test for the Looking Glass which I was going to follow up with new road tests for the 250 Ninja, new 150 CBR, and one of the Kawasaki 650's.

As for Thailand testing Senior citizens ability to drive, that's an excellent idea but first don't you think Thailand should first

1. Heavily fine anyone driving recklessly, driving through a red light, driving on a sidewalk or driving the wrong way

2. Test the police to see if they are serving and protecting or serving their own monetary interests

3. To not allow the police to direct traffic if they allow school children to drive without helmets and three and four to a bike as they wave the children though.

4. Punish anyone driving without a license.

5. Crucify on the balconies of the Central Festival Mall anyone caught running down pedestrians (using real nails of course).

6. Confiscate the motorcycle of any policeman driving without a helmet

Anyway...not up to me or you to decide for we are only guests here. Nevertheless the above priorities should come first.

Edited July 1, 2011 by jackcorbett

[BigBikeBKK]

FYI all new Kawa 650's sold in Thailand are equipped with ABS.

I'm sorry for being an inconsiderate jerk and "pouring salt on your wounds" but from reading your account of your accident I got the impression you thought you did nothing wrong.

Like I said, If you don't learn from your mistakes you are doomed to repeat them.

Your report describes perfectly an "accident chain" where a lot of small factors add up to create a big problem.

I don't know how old you are but we all must admit that our reflexes diminish with age, yes?

I can't tell you the drama that occurred when we took away my 80 yo grandmother's keys because, sweet lady that she was, with her failing eyesight and poor reflexes she was an absolute menace on the road.

As the result of countless age-related accidents many states have now passed laws that require senior citizens to take a test every year to assess if they can still safely operate a motor vehicle.

Trading in your bike for a car will certainly be safer for you, but how about those around you?

Perhaps Thailand should test senior citizens too?

Happy Trails!

Tony

Tony...There is no trading in the bike for a car. I'm keeping the Elegance which I will continue to use, especially for the many short hops. For that matter I will continue to use baht taxis...ie...take the Elegance to a bar or restaurant on Naklua Road, then take the 10 baht taxi if going to Walking Street and a few other places at night especially while drinking. The Honda 250 CBR was strictly a rental I rented for one purpose only and that was to do a road test for the Looking Glass which I was going to follow up with new road tests for the 250 Ninja, new 150 CBR, and one of the Kawasaki 650's.

As for Thailand testing Senior citizens ability to drive, that's an excellent idea but first don't you think Thailand should first

1. Heavily fine anyone driving recklessly, driving through a red light, driving on a sidewalk or driving the wrong way

2. Test the police to see if they are serving and protecting or serving their own monetary interests

3. To not allow the police to direct traffic if they allow school children to drive without helmets and three and four to a bike as they wave the children though.

4. Punish anyone driving without a license.

5. Crucify on the balconies of the Central Festival Mall anyone caught running down pedestrians (using real nails of course).

6. Confiscate the motorcycle of any policeman driving without a helmet

Anyway...not up to me or you to decide for we are only guests here. Nevertheless the above priorities should come first.

Agree with you 110% mate! Isn't Thailand great?!

[jackcorbett]

I thought you would, Tony.

I might be well past my prime, but it's now the 2nd day with the new Civic. Not used to having the steering wheel on the right being an American but I already feel very much at ease driving. So the coordination is not that far off. Be very careful when you are out there in the middle of all "Those bad elements", human and "other".

[khunup]

To followup, I finally manned up and bought the PCX (over the Elegance). Very tough choice...

A few tidbits I learned that I didn't know before...

It's good to see that for 1500 baht (Chiang Mai price) Honda will install a real seat...not just the hump, but something more substantial. Also for 4500 baht they will install a storage box on the back of the PCX for you. A bit pricey and can be done elsewhere for cheaper, but good to know the options that Honda is providing now (from what I've read it seems these customizations weren't always offered by Honda).