Three British teenagers killed in Thai bus crash

[Card]

I still don't get why there is no belts on buses.. anywhere in the world?

But many buses in Thailand, especially the luxury ones and I suspect this one, DO HAVE SEAT BELTS! I know I regularly travel to Chiang Mai and Pattaya on buses. One problem is that they are not promoted or insisted upon but mainly never used by passengers - even those in the front seats and even by farangs who should know berter. Somehow when farangs come to Thailand they forget all safety issues that they learnt from childhood, eg. seat belts, crash helmits, drinking and driving, even safe sex..

[slapout]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

Having worked for some very safety conscious companies, the post accident finding, revealed that less than 5% were unavoidable. Mechanical failure, where accepted maintenance schedules are adhered to, are minimal. Swerving to miss a dog when you are responsible for the human life your entrusted with, is a no brainer. Some have equated riding on various transport on Thai roads as similar to a diagnosed cancer patient refusing medical treatment, from a trained/competent doctor. The trained/competent part is utterly lacking in many cases where the driver/herders of these unguided vehicles are concerned.

[Payboy]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

good to hear the dog is ok.

Yeah, but the poor bus driver is suffering from exhaustion - fleeing the scene and all ...

[Card]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

THAI drivers AVOIDING hitting a dog?

that's hilarious.

Yes, accidents happen everywhere, but here they just happen more often and with more serious consequences. If you have ever been on a bus, you are immediately aware of how dangerous it is - and I am talking about every bus I've ever been on. No bus should be going 120 km/hour. Brake failure - according to the news reports - happens all the time. That is ridiculous. And if its brake failure, then the issue is not maintaining the buses. I agree that not every accident is a result of bad driving, only 99 percent of them are.

For sure this accident was caused by tail-gating - probably the greates cause of crashes on buses and cars in Thailand. It's a symptom of 1. Thai arrogance and impatience 2. The too small margin of error that Thais allow in virtually everything related to safety. Combine the 2 and u have the road accident record of Thailand..

[wazzi]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

You seem to have missed the story on Tuesday describing this accident. One of those passenger truck drivers decided to pass cars on a down hill shoot, unfortunately for all involved he went to fast and could not get back in his proper lane in time to avoid hitting a bus. This accident was a direct result of poor driving standards, and anyone who has ever driven on a mountain road in Thailand knows that it is one of the most dangerous things to do here. Thai drivers pass on blind curves at high speeds (or just figure the on coming traffic lane is there to make the curve easier to take at high speeds sometimes). This was an entirely preventable incident, and my condolences to the families of all the victims. Oh and I like many of the commenters here I am sure have a Thai drivers license. I got mine here and went through the actual test/class. It is a joke. If you want to know that your not supposed to drive a tank down the road, but it's OK to drive a car without headlights, then go take the test. Seriously, that was on the exam.

So the poor bus driver was innocent, but still caused by bad driving .

You could be on the safest bus with the best driver and it still isn't preventable with all the other idiots on the roads.

Stick to planes and trains whereever possible

[garyk]

It is sad when anyone dies. especially youg people in there prime. RIP

I drive the roads here daily. One end to the other. And am always amazed at the

driving here. Kinda scary. But actually I am equally amazed there are not more tragic

accidents then they are. It sure keeps me on my toes. Knock on wood I put 55,000 K.M.

on my truck here last year with no problem. Hummmmm Lucky for sure.

[softgeorge]

Sad story and condolences to the families.

Personally I would not get on a bus in Thailand be it either a mini bus or a coach. I have seen how these things are driven and the scare the hell out of me. It is like playing Russian roulette with you life,

[SICHONSTEVE]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

THAI drivers AVOIDING hitting a dog?

that's hilarious.

Yes, accidents happen everywhere, but here they just happen more often and with more serious consequences. If you have ever been on a bus, you are immediately aware of how dangerous it is - and I am talking about every bus I've ever been on. No bus should be going 120 km/hour. Brake failure - according to the news reports - happens all the time. That is ridiculous. And if its brake failure, then the issue is not maintaining the buses. I agree that not every accident is a result of bad driving, only 99 percent of them are.

For sure this accident was caused by tail-gating - probably the greates cause of crashes on buses and cars in Thailand. It's a symptom of 1. Thai arrogance and impatience 2. The too small margin of error that Thais allow in virtually everything related to safety. Combine the 2 and u have the road accident record of Thailand..

I thought tailgating was traveling too close to the vehicle in front leaving insufficient time to stop in an emergency. So what makes you think that it was this that caused the accident - if you read the report it say's it was a "head on collision with another bus" so hardly down to tailgating methinks!!!!

[hellodolly]

I have been reading here a lot and, unfortunately, all too often, the worst is assumed by most people. It is worse than back-seat driving or divan refereeing during a game. First, the only things known are what the reporters report. Then, these reportes are described here as less than "informative" and so on. Then, criticism about whatever can be conjured up about Thailand, drivers, laws, social norms and so on. It seems that, here, people writing really do not like Thailand. There seems to be blinders on such that, if it is not like back home (which it really is, if thought about icarefully, as people from all over the world die in accidents in England, Austrailia and the US as well as other nations in the entire world, which are not mentioned here at all). Unfortunately, the bias is all to clear and comments such as "go anywhere else you can [but not to Thailand]" are more demeaning to Thailand that I am grieviously disturbed. I would like to read more thoughtful comments rather than visceral reactions. There is too little analysis. I am going to do a little research on a few things, if I can, and put this in real perspective for people here so that they will be able to "get a grip" on reality about home as well as about Thailand.

Well said. Part of the to do about it is because of the type of people who come here to live. They feel inadequate at home and can come here and put down a whole nation of people.

I don't know the exact figures but every year there is over 40,000 people who die of road accidents in the U. S. alone. Do these people from the states condemning Thailand say any thing about that when they are back in the states. Of course not they just except it as the American way of life.

I strongly suspect that to be the case in all the countries that those condemning the Thai's come from.

As said earlier It could have been mechanical. The press chose to not tell us what the cause was.

Also overlooked is the response time to a accident. The first hour is critical and in many cases there is no way that responsible medical help can get there in a hour.

Things will go on as they have in the past until the infrastructure and ability to respond to accidents in a prompt way improve.

[Card]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

You seem to have missed the story on Tuesday describing this accident. One of those passenger truck drivers decided to pass cars on a down hill shoot, unfortunately for all involved he went to fast and could not get back in his proper lane in time to avoid hitting a bus. This accident was a direct result of poor driving standards, and anyone who has ever driven on a mountain road in Thailand knows that it is one of the most dangerous things to do here. Thai drivers pass on blind curves at high speeds (or just figure the on coming traffic lane is there to make the curve easier to take at high speeds sometimes). This was an entirely preventable incident, and my condolences to the families of all the victims. Oh and I like many of the commenters here I am sure have a Thai drivers license. I got mine here and went through the actual test/class. It is a joke. If you want to know that your not supposed to drive a tank down the road, but it's OK to drive a car without headlights, then go take the test. Seriously, that was on the exam.

Was this the same accident? The one involving the three boys happened on Tuesday night so won't have been reported on Tuesday. U sure this is the same one?

I can't find any report on the accident involving the 3 boys anywhere in the Thai press.

[Card]

For sure this accident was caused by tail-gating - probably the greates cause of crashes on buses and cars in Thailand. It's a symptom of 1. Thai arrogance and impatience 2. The too small margin of error that Thais allow in virtually everything related to safety. Combine the 2 and u have the road accident record of Thailand..

I thought tailgating was traveling too close to the vehicle in front leaving insufficient time to stop in an emergency. So what makes you think that it was this that caused the accident - if you read the report it say's it was a "head on collision with another bus" so hardly down to tailgating methinks!!!!

True, but tail-gating has many ramifications. If a vehicle tries to overtake and then finds it has to rejoin traffic, it often cannot because the cars it wants to rejoin have insufficient space between them. There is far too much 'bunching' with Thai drivers with the result that there is too little room for manoeuvre in emergencies.

[block2]

I think we have to admit that driving standards here are pretty bad, especially on the country roads.<br>I see the most dangerous manouvers on a daily basis, the classics are overtaking in unsafe conditions e.g. on a blind hill or a blind bend, drunk driving, racing pickups fully loaded up with goods, speeding through small villages driving long hours on some kind of wake up drug.<br>There is a general lack of care and "fingers crossed" in tight situations where normally one would proceed with caution.<br>The cheaper buses are usually some of the worst offenders, speeding and dangerous overtaking are the norm.<br>The government needs to bring in a licensing system for bus drivers where they are licensed and regularly checked as in the western countries.<br>

In the actual article it dosn't once mention that the driver of the bus was on the wrong side of the road...maybe it was the driver of the bus coming from the other direction that was at fault...who knows...also the road from Bangkok to Chang Mai is not mountainous with loads of twists and bends it is The A1 the main road from Bangkok to Chang Mai which is nearly all straight 3 laned. But saying that, the last time I used it was for a visa run to maesot and back and the road between Kampaneg Phet and Tak was a total disgrace, pot holes and bumps where the tarmac had raisen/melted due to the heat from the sun every where, certain bits of the road the tarmac had been dug up in prepartion of laying a new road but no doubt they had run out of money has the road was the same on several journeys along it...I witnessed buses and lorries with 2 trailors all driving at speed down the motorbike lanes to avoid the bumps and the holes in the road.

.

I totally agree with what bobmac says above regarding the village roads...I used to have a 150cc Yamaha VR ( ex-police bike ) and it had some speed on it and would keep up with any of the pickups but I'm glad I got rid of it...I have a honda 125cc wave now and even driving that is dangerous on the village roads...the times I have had to pull into the verge with my wife and 10 yr old step daughter is unbelivable....the road behind me will be clear and instead of waiting for me to pass ( literally seconds ) they always seem to overtake as I am approaching or level with the car, pickup, lorry etc in front of them....they have no consideration for motorbikes whatsoever....another one is when i'm driving down the A1 to and from the local big town...there are several u turn's....and alot of drivers doing the u-turns cannot/do not judge the speed of motorbike's and the times I have had to brake hard has they have pulled out to do the u-turn and ended up in the motorbike lane are again too many to count.

Another time a thai friend visited me and we ended up having a drink..small bottle of hong tong....he then he decided to take me to a karokee bar where his bit on the side worked..we ended up ordering a large bottle of hong tonk...with food...we drank half of that bottle and it was nearly dark 6.30 - 7pm time so I asked him to take me to nearest town so i could get a motorbike taxi home...he was all red faced ( typical thai when they have had a drink and trust me Thais cannot hold their drink ) ..anyways got to the nearest town no motorbike taxis and the backroad to my home is about 8 miles with no street lights except for a couple of villages...has we strarted driving down it he was all over the place..so I told him to pull over and i would drive...he was having none of it so i thought seatbelt time..........there is a quite a long straight bit of road from 1 viallge to another but this road is used by sugarcane lorries and there are a lot of potholes and no white lines in middle of road...as we where driving down it I saw 2 other cars/pickups coming towards us at speed and thought we are to close to the middle of the road here...has we and the oncoming pickups got nearer and nearer I thought we going to have a head on here...looked at my freind and i think he was transfixed by the oncoming lights...anyway just has we where about to meet I grabbed the steering wheel and pulled it left...BANG...if I hadn't of done it I don't thing I would be here now....his right front wheel popped and he had a big scratch down the side of his car he drove another 500 - 700 yards before the car stopped the 2 pickups had also stopped...but like i say they where 500-700 yards away...after checking car my friend decided to carry on....he tried this 3 times and each time i had to slam on the hand brake otherwise we would have ended down the side of the road ditch..told him the car was not going no where but he was having none of it...kept saying to me " Are you are with me on this " meaning when and if police come that I back him..I said " i will speak the truth...that the road was dark..no white lines and both cars could not see the middle of the road until it was too late"....10 - 15 minutes later 2 policemen came on a motorbike, one stayed with the car the other took my friend to the pickups....i then remembered we still had 1/2 a bottle of hong tonk under my seat..so i got back in the car and pretended to use my mobile and while the policeman wasn't looking threw the bottle into the verge....after 20 -30 mintutes the policeman brought my friend back him and the 2 police spoke to each other then the police left...no breathalysier nothing...I couldn't believe it....couple of minutes later a breakdown lorrie arrived to take my friends car back to the police compoundard...we where in the middle of nowhere about 4 miles from my home so asked the pickup driver if he would drop us off...his answer 300 baht...i said i could get to bangkok for that....300 baht or you walk home..no cars will stop on this road he said..ok I said i will pay the 300 baht...my friend was then rummaging about the car i said what are you doing he said looking for the whiskey..told him I had thrown it in the verge..he went and got it and we got in the breakdown van..i sat in the back he sat in front in with the driver...couldn't believe it when he started to share the remainder of he whiskey with the driver....AMAZING THAILAND.

RIP to the 3 English Lads and condolenses to all their families and hope the 4th lad in hospital is not injured that bad and makes a speedy recovery.

[Rosco911]

once again to any tourists coming to Thailand and doing alot of travelling , just remember travelling on the roads in Thailand is amongst the most dangerous in the world, Go somewhere else if you can

What are you talikg about??

'Go somewhere else if you can"

No matter how sad the situation, for some people, before all else, it's just another opportunity to bash Thailand. Accidents happen everywhere in the world.

It's especially sad when it's young people on what was probably an exciting adventure for them, but things like this could just as easily have happened if they remained in UK.

I agree this tragedy could happen anywhere in the world but we all must admit that the driving standards in Thailand are very poor to say the least. The chances of accidents are greatly increased and will continue to do so until the authorities do something to change this.

How many times do we see school children driving to school that are not old enough to obtain a driving license even by just paying for one? At the schools these children are nicely waved into the school grounds by the friendly traffic BIB. Is this what is call law enforcement?

My deepest sympathy to the families.

[Atmos]

The annual death toll on UK roads is about 3000. The 'official' toll on Thai roads is about 12000 although a UN report reported the true figure to be closer to 25000 as official stats only include those dieing at the scene. So fot two countries with similar populations you are between 4 and 8 times more likely to die on Thai roads than those in the UK.

Just coincidence - but this from yesterday's news (Guardian) - full article at link; the reduction is amazing, now a quarter of what it was 35 years ago and so many more vehicles on the roads.

Road deaths fall to record low

The number of people killed annually on the roads in Britain has fallen below 2,000 for the first time since records began in 1926,

government statistics show

.

The death toll for 2010 was 1,857, as against 2,222 in 2009, a 16% drop and the seventh consecutive annual fall, the Department for Transport statistics showed. There was an 8% reduction in the broader statistic of people killed or seriously injured, which stood at 22,660 last year.

The roads are, on average, about eight times safer than in 1966, when deaths hit a peacetime peak of 7,985, a figure exceeded only in 1941, when 9,169 died.

Among car users, the number of deaths fell by 20% year-on-year to 842. A total of 405 pedestrians were killed, down 19%, while 403 motorcyclists died, a 15% drop from 2009.

Edited July 1, 2011 by Atmos

[Bamdas]

I want to remark that last month I was on a normal bus from BKK to the Cambodian border. All seats did have safetybelts. I used it and also saw that some thai passengers, but not all, used it. Also my bus had to break once quite suddenly for another vehicle... Accidents can always happen. I agree that ALL buses should be equiped with safety belts and if there is one available, USE IT. If your bus gets a blown out front tyre, the bus will most probably end up at the side of the road or against a tree or a light pole. Front tires on thai buses are not equiped with any special safety devices like in other countries. On top of this, they might not renew tyres when needed. I saw many vehicles: buses trucks, cars, ...(especially trucks) on thai roads driving with nearly bald tires!! At last, when you buy a second hand vehicle, immediately buy 4 NEW tires. Second hand dealers will install tires that look like new, but if you check the production date, you will notice that they very very old. These are also a hasard. Tires, if not used or sold for many years, should be shredded...but in Thailand they are sold to some car dealers. Beware!

[alexth]

As in the previous topic about the raped girl, it's their fault they came here instead of staying home. RIP to the victims and their families, a really tragic event. Maybe now they'll turn Thailand into a new transportation hub too.

Edited July 1, 2011 by alexth

[sangfroid]

I still don't get why there is no belts on buses.. anywhere in the world?

Intercity Buses(eg Greyhound) in Australia have belts and is mandatory to use them.

[sangfroid]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

You're obviously still in the rose coloured glasses stage of your association with Thailand.

[sangfroid]

I

The bottom line is that until the father, mother, son, daughter, brother, sister of some General, or politician, or BKK Elite is killed in a horrible crash, nothing's going to change here. TiT and that's the way it is.

This has happened....several times.

[smileydude]

I have been reading here a lot and, unfortunately, all too often, the worst is assumed by most people. It is worse than back-seat driving or divan refereeing during a game. First, the only things known are what the reporters report. Then, these reportes are described here as less than "informative" and so on. Then, criticism about whatever can be conjured up about Thailand, drivers, laws, social norms and so on. It seems that, here, people writing really do not like Thailand. There seems to be blinders on such that, if it is not like back home (which it really is, if thought about icarefully, as people from all over the world die in accidents in England, Austrailia and the US as well as other nations in the entire world, which are not mentioned here at all). Unfortunately, the bias is all to clear and comments such as "go anywhere else you can [but not to Thailand]" are more demeaning to Thailand that I am grieviously disturbed. I would like to read more thoughtful comments rather than visceral reactions. There is too little analysis. I am going to do a little research on a few things, if I can, and put this in real perspective for people here so that they will be able to "get a grip" on reality about home as well as about Thailand.

I couldn't agree with you more. Why the bashing? I assume most of the people on this forum either live in Thailand or have an interest in Thailand.

As a wise man once said. If you don't like your boss don't go around loudmouthing him, just quit. The same goes for non residents. Just as in the case of the young hi-so girl who hit a van that resulted in the deaths of many passengers the focus on this case is all wrong. Unforuntately accidents occur regardless of how skilled you are because we all make mistakes. Everyone was focused on the young girl, she was underaged, inexperienced etc. She and her parents are liable legally so let the courts decide. If the coach drivers drive like maniacs to make the time schedules required by the tour companies, then heavily fine the companies for every accident. We should focus on safety issues like seatbelts on bus minivans and coaches. Maybe we can put a speed limiter on them like they do in Singapore where this siren goes off if you drive over the limit.

Constructive criticism please, its alot more useful then bashing.

[sangfroid]

I have been doing 90 visa run for 7 years with no probs,great drivers too.Been travelijng all over Thailand with,u guessed it,no probs.Deaths can happen all over the world,and would be interesting to see the death rate for Thailand and uk,i canty be arsed to look but somebody will.

RIP LADS

Road fatalities per 100,000 inhabitants per year

Thailand 19.6

United Kingdom 3.59

http://en.wikipedia....ated_death_rate

Road fatalities here in LOS are only counted if the person is killed outright in the accident . If the person dies later, either in hospital or anywhere else, it is not counted in the fatality figure.

Some doctors and police here say that the true fatality figures, may well be double that which is officially stated

Edited July 1, 2011 by sangfroid

[thaibeachlovers]

I still don't get why there is no belts on buses.. anywhere in the world?

That's incorrect. NZ buses have them, and the driver even asked us to use them.

Been on a few new buses in LOS and they have belts, though not used.

[Misterwhisper]

And another head-on crash. These things only happen due to dangerous overtaking without any regard for traffic rules and road safety. Nothing new here. And nothing's gonna change either.

[travelmann]

once again to any tourists coming to Thailand and doing alot of travelling , just remember travelling on the roads in Thailand is amongst the most dangerous in the world, Go somewhere else if you can

What are you talikg about??

'Go somewhere else if you can"

No matter how sad the situation, for some people, before all else, it's just another opportunity to bash Thailand. Accidents happen everywhere in the world.

It's especially sad when it's young people on what was probably an exciting adventure for them, but things like this could just as easily have happened if they remained in UK.

I love that "Thai bashing" this is one case where Thailand ranks very highly "road deaths" get a life, get real they, need bashing on this!!!!

Edited July 1, 2011 by travelmann

[SICHONSTEVE]

For sure this accident was caused by tail-gating - probably the greates cause of crashes on buses and cars in Thailand. It's a symptom of 1. Thai arrogance and impatience 2. The too small margin of error that Thais allow in virtually everything related to safety. Combine the 2 and u have the road accident record of Thailand..

I thought tailgating was traveling too close to the vehicle in front leaving insufficient time to stop in an emergency. So what makes you think that it was this that caused the accident - if you read the report it say's it was a "head on collision with another bus" so hardly down to tailgating methinks!!!!

True, but tail-gating has many ramifications. If a vehicle tries to overtake and then finds it has to rejoin traffic, it often cannot because the cars it wants to rejoin have insufficient space between them. There is far too much 'bunching' with Thai drivers with the result that there is too little room for manoeuvre in emergencies.

Maybe, but I think that the largest threat to having accidents is the sheer impatience and lack of courtesy on Thai roads. One noticeable aspect on the latter point is Thai drivers inclination to swerve around you rather than let you out of a turning on to a busy road. Rather than simply stop to let you out they more often than less move to the other side of the road to get past you such is their impatience in trying to gain a few seconds on their journey time.

I've taught my wife to stop and let people out if they are having trouble getting out of junctions in town and she stops and lets ALL of them out now maybe up to 20 cars - much to the consternation of the people bibbing away and frothing at the mouth, behind us, who are patently alien to this sort of consideration!!! My wife say's she feels very good when she does this and says "ain't I kind" - and a bloody nuisance to those drivers going beserk behind us, no doubt!!!

[SICHONSTEVE]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

Totally agree with this - far too many people stereotype Thai's and Thailand. It makes me cringe every time something like this happens and everybody spouts off about how poor the driving standards in Thailand are. They are worse than most countries without doubt, but to jump to the conclusion that accidents are ALWAYS the fault of the driver is wrong. It gets monotonous seeing the stock phrases relating to how dangerous Thailands roads are, how rampant corruption is, how the sexpats should be hung drawn and quartered etc: haven't posters got something more interesting to write about instead of coming out with the same boring mantra???

Before looking at poster's comments I was wondering how many pathetic RIP and condolences utterings there was going to be. As expected, they raised their ugly head virtually from the off and It was refreshing to see this sensible posting (from a newbie as well). Other more experienced posters should take note and "cut the crap" as it is meaningless tripe, adds nothing and is as boring as hell!! How about some imaginitive and constructive postings for a change or is that beyond posters capabilities??

Calm down fella......as I said in my previous post it's not Thai bashing to give an opinion on road safety here. It's a thread on road safety...

OK, OK, I've got off my high horse and vented my spleen now, I take your point but it doesn't stop me being averse to these kind of pointless postings that are delivered oh, too frequently for my liking!!

[SAffer]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

Swerving for dogs IS bad driving.

[SICHONSTEVE]

I have been reading here a lot and, unfortunately, all too often, the worst is assumed by most people. It is worse than back-seat driving or divan refereeing during a game. First, the only things known are what the reporters report. Then, these reportes are described here as less than "informative" and so on. Then, criticism about whatever can be conjured up about Thailand, drivers, laws, social norms and so on. It seems that, here, people writing really do not like Thailand. There seems to be blinders on such that, if it is not like back home (which it really is, if thought about icarefully, as people from all over the world die in accidents in England, Austrailia and the US as well as other nations in the entire world, which are not mentioned here at all). Unfortunately, the bias is all to clear and comments such as "go anywhere else you can [but not to Thailand]" are more demeaning to Thailand that I am grieviously disturbed. I would like to read more thoughtful comments rather than visceral reactions. There is too little analysis. I am going to do a little research on a few things, if I can, and put this in real perspective for people here so that they will be able to "get a grip" on reality about home as well as about Thailand.

I couldn't agree with you more. Why the bashing? I assume most of the people on this forum either live in Thailand or have an interest in Thailand.

As a wise man once said. If you don't like your boss don't go around loudmouthing him, just quit. The same goes for non residents. Just as in the case of the young hi-so girl who hit a van that resulted in the deaths of many passengers the focus on this case is all wrong. Unforuntately accidents occur regardless of how skilled you are because we all make mistakes. Everyone was focused on the young girl, she was underaged, inexperienced etc. She and her parents are liable legally so let the courts decide. If the coach drivers drive like maniacs to make the time schedules required by the tour companies, then heavily fine the companies for every accident. We should focus on safety issues like seatbelts on bus minivans and coaches. Maybe we can put a speed limiter on them like they do in Singapore where this siren goes off if you drive over the limit.

Constructive criticism please, its alot more useful then bashing.

I concur wholeheartedly with you on this!!

[Tywais]

A post in poor taste and response to it deleted. Keep trolling in this topic or you will be sitting on the sidelines.

[VictorOne]

[i think some people are jumping the gun on this one a bit; of course condolences to those directly affected, but to immediately assume the accident is a result of poor driving standards is unfair - for all we know it could have been caused by some other reason like brake failure or swerving to avoid a dog. The driving standards are not good in Thailand, but that doesn't mean that every accident is down to them. Accidents happen unfortunately, and they happen everywhere.

What stupid comments.

You are taught in "defensive driving" to look ahead, think ahead. It is a fact of life that there are many dogs on the roads so one must take that into account when driving.

What is brakes failure, if not the result of poor maintenance? And accidents do not need to result from bad brakes.

Accidents do not happen. An accident is a unexpected undesired event. If drivers drive in accordance with conditions and drive defensively accidents should not happen.

With remarks from idiots who suggest that accidents are inevitable fatalities will continue to occur. You (most sane people) are pro-active and the likelihood of accidents accompanied by fatalities are almost eliminated.

The facts are that Thai's are not proactive "nuff said"