India Health Minister Comes Out As Anti-Gay Bigot

[LeCharivari]

I admit it. I'm bigoted against bigots. No apologies. What do you expect, I should send them a banana cream pie?

Same feelings/thoughts here. Anti-bigotry all the way ! I shall continue to speak out and act out against racists, nationalists, fundamentalists and anti-gays, despite nasty replies/comments and threats.

Jem

And I'll support you "all the way", Jem - as long as they are racists, fundamentalists, etc, and that is what they have been shown to be, not just what someone with an axe to grind or a report to sell has said that they are.

The one point that could have been made with at least some validity against what Azad did say in his speech, which has been lost in all the reports of something he didn't say, was his comment that MSM was unnatural and that this needed to be addressed, but even this needs to be looked at in the context and culture of MSM in the sub-continent.

When someone refers to MSM in the West they are usually refering to gays and bi's (plus, of course, those who are curious, experimenting or incarcerated with little choice). In the sub-continent, however, whether Hindu or Muslim, things have a different meaning and MSM is widespread and accepted (if seldom spoken about) but for very different reasons. Sex outside marriage for women is at best frowned on and at worst forbidden, making "masti " with another man an acceptable and not unusual alternative for many men, particularly in rural areas. Masti equates to sanuk in Thai, but more recently it has been used to refer to anal sex, usually unprotected, and it has barely been targeted as a high-risk activity by NACO (the National Aids Control Organisation) and SACS (the State Aids Control Societies), which is the point Azad was trying to make (arguably badly) as he has done before.

Some local Gay activists have resented this and resisted any attempt to target what are accepted elsewhere to be particularly high-risk groups for HIV prevention, so instead of targeting those indulging in unprotected anal sex, for example, the NACO simply targeted all MSM and instead of targeting gays in general they concentrated on the less numerous but far more visible hijras and kothis (the equivalent of Thai khatoeys) but not what some refer to here as "real men". Some gay activist groups have tried to distance themselves from the hijras, who are ostracised from normal Indian society and who have been found to have HIV infection rates as high as 20 to 40%. Since Azad took over, however, the NACP (National Aids Control Programme) has targeted these groups in NACP III and some of these groups resent the attention they are getting (but not the treatment).

Azad has made quite a few enemies during his time in politics, and understandably some are only too happy to make the most of it when the chance comes up to sling some mud in his direction and at the same time drum up sympathy and support. Whether it is deserved or not depends on just how much time you take to check what he actually said.

[Jingthing]

I think it is also very clear from that video that this Minister of Bigotry (unnatural indeed), (weird we have a gay person here defending that, nothing more to say to him, he's beyond bizarre) was in FAVOR of the long standing Indian criminalization of homosexuality. Nothing to defend there, nothing at all.

Edited July 7, 2011 by Jingthing

[LeCharivari]

I find you unbelievable! Watch this CLOSELY.

I watched it all, JT. I also watched the preceding few seconds, which are MISSING in this report (you can get them in the link I posted, or read them in my link to The Hindu).

Compare the following two versions of his speech:

MSM is a high risk group and it is necessary to reach out to them to prevent the spread of HIV. We can track female sex workers but it is almost impossible to identify men who have sex with men. We need to take a message to them. They should also take precautions to prevent spread the risk of infection. The topic is to worry whether this disease wherein a man has sex with another man has come into the world and our country as well. This ( HIV disease) is completely unnatural and should not exist but it does. Our country has a good population of such men who have sex within the same gender and it is very difficult to find them. We haven't been able to progress into the matter as we don't know who does it and where. ......

We will have to prepare society for this phenomena wherein a man in engaging with another man so that such people - there was a lot of controversy till two years ago about whether a law should be there or not. Many countries have such a law, many don't, but it doesn't matter as many things exist despite the presence of law. But it doesn't matter if they (homosexual men) also take some precautions then this disease (HIV) can be controlled in our country.

..infection. The topic is to worry whether this disease wherein a man has sex with another man has come into the world and our country as well. This (homosexuality) is completely unnatural and should not exist but it does. Our country has a good population of such men who have sex within the same gender and it is very difficult to find them. We haven't been able to progress into the matter as we don't know who does it and where. ......

We will have to prepare society for this phenomena wherein a man in engaging with another man so that such people - there was a lot of controversy till two years ago about whether a law should be there or not. Many countries have such a law, many don't, but it doesn't matter as many things exist despite the presence of law. But it doesn't matter if they (homosexual men) also take some precautions then this disease (homosexuality) can be controlled in our country.

What a difference a few carefully edited seconds makes.

Suddenly he's gone from saying that if gays take some precautions when having sex the spread of HIV can be controlled to saying that if gays take some precautions then homosexuality can be controlled .

If you read about NACP III you'll see that these "precautions" he is referring to are the normal "precautions" taken before safe sex. He's not advocating mass suicide by the gay community, but condoms. Not as exciting as other versions, nowhere near as attention-grabbing as the headlines suggest, but probably rather more realistic.

If anyone still has any doubts about what Azad ACTUALLY SAID there is no need to speak Hindi; the first word he says in JT's YouTube link is fortunately one of the few English words he used (infection); simply add the quote from The Hindu that I have already given to JT's link, remove anything anyone (including me) has added in brackets to "help" you understand his meaning, and you get the full version.

No need to apologize for the name-calling, JT, I expect it by now.

Edited July 7, 2011 by LeCharivari

[Ijustwannateach]

LCV,

Actually, I think there very much IS a need to speak Hindi to have any strong personal opinion about what was actually said; and on the basis (second hand, admittedly) of those whom I trust more (the foreign Hindi-literate reporters and the native gay Hindi-speaking activists) than the writers and potential apologists in an English-language version of a Hindi, in-state paper (the Indian papers are notoriously partisan), and you.

On the basis of your lacking judgment about how strong your claims should be, your inability to recognise and respond effectively to the specific items I noticed about your own link, and the strength of the people who are themselves affected (gay Indian activists), I no longer feel it is important for me to pay attention to your viewpoint on this issue.

[LeCharivari]

I think it is also very clear from that video that this Minister of Bigotry (unnatural indeed), (weird we have a gay person here defending that, nothing more to say to him, he's beyond bizarre) was in FAVOR of the long standing Indian criminalization of homosexuality. Nothing to defend there, nothing at all.

We must not only be looking at different links but reading different histories.

Prior to the case against Section 377 being decided in the courts two years ago (the law is actually still on the books in India as it has never been debated in or amended by Parliament), Azad made a public statement calling for the law to be debated both publicly and in Parliament as the Interior Ministry ( not the Health Ministry, which Azad headed) was opposed to amending the law: “Personal opinions and those of various Ministries should not prevail. There has to be a consensus after weighing the positive and negative impacts of the amendments ... as of now, people’s minds are closed and I don’t think a proper debate has been held so far.”

What he actually said and did, though, doesn't seem to matter here.

[Jingthing]

It's time to put this silliness to rest. Who are you going to trust on this one? One poster on Thaivisa or scads of sources from INDIA (I think some may possibly speak Hindi even better than our amigo here) which are totally DEFINITIVE, no doubt whatsoever, that this health minister indeed recently spoke some extremely homophobic words?

http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report_alls-not-gay-after-ghulam-nabi-azad-homophobic-barb_1562776

All’s not gay after Ghulam Nabi Azad homophobic barb

(Mumbai, that's in INDIA folks)

“It is unfortunate that the health minister of the largest democracy in the world thinks that homosexuality is a disease. I guess now we will have to sensitise politicians just like we sensitised policemen about gay rights,” Kashyap added.

On Monday, Azad was speaking at the national HIV/AIDS convention of zilla parishad chairpersons and mayors when he said that the “the disease (of homosexuality) has come from abroad” and that the gay population in India is now increasing. He added that it is difficult to identify MSM (Men having sex with Men) unlike sex workers who live in a community.

His remarks sparked off sharp criticism from the LGBT community already struggling against prejudice. “I am not ashamed of being a gay man but I am now ashamed to be an Indian,” said Harish Iyer, gay rights activist. He feels that he has made a mistake by electing the present government to power.

The outrage was not restricted to the gay community, with several straight supporters coming out strongly against the minister’s remarks. “How can we have a health minister who says gay sex is a disease?” asked Bollywood actress Shahana Goswami. “The uneducated ministers of India should stop making such factually incorrect statements,” she added.

Reactions to Azad's attempt at clarification (not apology) -- REJECTION and disbelief --

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/anger-indian-minister-calls-homosexuality-disease-065548563.html;_ylt=A7x9TSg4XBROKRwAZwfUfMl_;_ylu=X3oDMTM5b2ZhYWZwBHBrZwM0NjYwZDY3Mi1iZGJhLTNhOGEtYTVkYy1kMDczYmQwYWQ0MmIEcG9zAzUEc2VjA01lZGlhVG9wU3RvcnkEdmVyA2QyM2Y0ZTIwLWE3MTktM

The minister's statements Tuesday failed to end the controversy.

Anjali Gopalan, who heads the NAZ Foundation, an Indian rights group that works with HIV positive people, did not believe the minister's comments had been taken out of context.

"He needs to acknowledge that he made a mistake -- he needs to apologise, which he is not going to do," she said. "We are not going to take it (his remarks) lying down."

Edited July 8, 2011 by sbk

[sbk]

Well, a bunch of off topic arguments have been deleted. Not sure why this is so heated but it seems like a the argument here is over interpretations of one mans speech, and since is seems that speech can be interpreted in different ways depending on how one views it, then perhaps its just best to leave it at that.