DTAC Is An Alien Company: Thai Commerce Minister

[Deeral]

A few moths back I spoke to an "official in a company supplying the technology for 3g - I asked it it was the right stuff - they just laughed.

companies were excluded by the last government that would have set up a viable 3 G network some time back - now it looks like this govt is set to do the same. THe only thing is that we might get a system that works on the right frequencies this time.

THere has been a concerted effort by the previous government to put opposition businesses out of the playing field.

What remains to be seen is whether the new government will tackle the situation by redress or revenge.

(It will be interesting to see what they do about TV too.)

[carsgil]

So the logical conclusion is, if there is any truth in the story then Thailand is in the sxxt. Do we really believe that the likes of Tesco, Big C etc. are here under Thai ownership, no they are not. It is manipulated according to the bribes they pay.

Just as an experiment wouldn't it be nice if some brave bright spark decided to enforce the laws and all the falang companies just left, we could all sit back and watch the mayhem that ensued and Thailand get back to where they should be.

By the way I love Thailand but some of their elite need their heads withdrawn from their axxses.

[DickFarang]

What a nonsense.. Is there any post where you do not mention Thaksin? Wonder what this man has done to you.

It's raining.... blame Thaksin!

Anyway do you know the democrates (your friends) are still in power? And that under their government this whole DTAC thing is initiated?

Better to know what you are talking about before letting your mouth run with vile...it is very well known what Thaksin did to his Partner in that deal in fact the guy was lucky to leave Thailand alive

Gee I guess Thaksin must own DTAC too. Or thats all any of you know. Thaksin is to blame for everything. RIGHT????????????? if you say right you are stuppid.

do you have some evidence that he does not?

Who does know what he owns or what he does not own?

Dtac has been operating for years without any hassles and just out of the blue it so happens that it broke the law? and so happens the new minister to be wants company to be charged , but police do not want to take the case.

Even a child would see that this is not black/white case

Not the "the new minister to be" but the Democratic caretaker minister initiated the charge.

[meelousee]

The Deal

You build a company to provide cell services get satellite access and then after 1/3 of your profits go to TAT before taxes. If successful we stab you in the back and make you an illegal company no matter what BOI 500 million guarantee you have which you will forfeit.

Now 6 Billion Baht later they get this?

Edited July 11, 2011 by meelousee

[lannarebirth]

I suspected DTAC might be an Alien Company as they're the only decent mobile phone coverage provider I've ever had here.

[Bakseedaa]

Yep now the offer from Thaksins buddies will likely come in

to buy enough shares to make them legal again.

Likely at firesale rates of course.

Powerplay in the works for sure.

So you nasty Norwegians,

here's an offer you can't refuse.

Makes me think back to Monson,

Thaksin partnered with him to install technology,

but it came time to take profits and

he had Monson thrown in jail...

What a nonsense.. Is there any post where you do not mention Thaksin? Wonder what this man has done to you.

It's raining.... blame Thaksin!

Anyway do you know the democrates (your friends) are still in power? And that under their government this whole DTAC thing is initiated?

Sometimes the truth hurts, and for those who did not know, Mr Monson is a Real American (USA) businessman ... and a real nice guy, Your Mr Thaksin , when he was Prime Minister, tricked him out of his business, and cheated him out of his just rewards... Mr Monson has now won the first court case against Mr T , and is now following up that court case for compensation , running to many billions of Baht.. Rock on Justice...

[hellodolly]

Do you now understand, why under no circumstances I ever want to invest even one cent in Thailand ?

If you dislike and distrust the place so much why don't you go back home.

This " why don't you go back home" is so old and worn out! please come up with something better, more original

You are absolutely rite it is old.

But it is still a valid question.

Have you ever noticed that only a few reply to it. Check there profile they do not show a place of residence They may well be out side Thailand in another country.

[TAWP]

HI Steve.

Nice to see you posting with your usual informed accuracy and long memory.

Good recount -- the updated version in the thread is even better.

Edited July 11, 2011 by TAWP

[themockrat]

Yep now the offer from Thaksins buddies will likely come in

to buy enough shares to make them legal again.

Likely at firesale rates of course.

Powerplay in the works for sure.

So you nasty Norwegians,

here's an offer you can't refuse.

Makes me think back to Monson,

Thaksin partnered with him to install technology,

but it came time to take profits and

he had Monson thrown in jail...

You're such a drama queen. This topic has nothing to do with Thaksin.

[munmick]

Do you now understand, why under no circumstances I ever want to invest even one cent in Thailand ?

I agree with you on your statement.Investment into Thai bussines is a one way thing,They only want your money and never want you to own anything,All Thai owned,shares,directors,etc.51 ,to 49. And thai company cant buy land if a forigner is a director to.They want Investment but not want to give anything in return.You have no rights here remember,You are only a visitor.Not even married to a Thai gives you any rights,You are only here on tempory stay.

[DickFarang]

Xenophobia from THE DEMOCRATS.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

In contrast, I cannot find any anti-foreign sentiment at PTP, or at least not more than what alreadt exists among the civil service and the outgoing government.

Well to be fair we haven't yet seen any major policy announcements from PT so it's a bit early.

We can look at TRT (the grandfather of PT) who instigated the 25% foreign ownership restriction on telcos which basically hamstrung DTAC and Orange/Truemove who at that time as TAC was saddled with substantial debt and were operating on the more capital intensive GSM bands compared to AIS. Govt then moved it to 49% but that was only so the then PM could flog 96% of AIS to the Singaporeans, also using nominees (so it appeared 49%, and in fact IIRC the legal structure of the deal for AIS was similarly structured as DTAC; so they are roughly the 'same animal'). TRT completely derailed telco deregulation, which I suppose is some form of protectionism against foreigners.

Same TRT government also were the ones enforcing the rules about foreign ownership in Phuket and removing the usual Thai company with nominees loophole, after the major land deals had gone through, and they needed a bit of a 'kick the foreigners in the face' nationalist drive as the government started to look wobbly; IIRC was around late 2005.

And they were the ones who increased the VISA and costs of compliance for legally working here also IIRC.

And of course who can forget Thaksin's unprecented attempt to kick Crispin and Tasker out of Thailand for the Far Eastern Economic Review's daring to suggest there might be any issues with the TRT government.

And most of the recommended steps needed to deregulate the Thai economy such as restrictions on ownership, blocked/protected industries, trade barriers...they remain to this day, with the only substantial efforts to open the Thai economy in 1998-2000 period as a result of the IMF prescription needed to rewind some of the foolishness of the Chavalit and Banharn governments (both are TRT/PT former allies) as well as the ongoing issues of the Thai economy; instigated by Chuan Leekpai and the right medicine but given in the wrong dose (too much too soon without enough help along the way) and with very poor instructions (welfare like the univesal healthcare scheme poorly communicated; help to SMEs poorly implemented and communicated; nationalistic confidence building speeches completely missing).

Once founded, Thaksin's 2nd party (having taken the Palang Dhamma party apart) was called Thai Rak Thai for a reason, and much of the policy position was based on showing how Thais would look after Thais....healthcare, government support...or even extending to anti foreign retailer legislation ostensibly to block the major foreign owned hypermarkets expanding into the Kingdom by instigating quite severe restrictions on where a hyper market could open which was supposedly to protect Thai mom and pops.

Of course, most people in the retail and commercial real estate sectors know that it was actually to open a runway for the expansion of.....7:11. Which have taken many Thai mom and pops to the cleaners, literally. (look how clean a 7:11 is compared to some mom and pops).

BTW the same people own 7:11 also pretty much own TrueMove. And were represented in TRT by cabinet member Pitak Intarawitayanunt and also Wattana Muangsuk; in fact one of the founders of TRT was from CP and they were a major supporter early on (despite the obvious issue in the telecoms sector).

When the birdflu crisis hit Thailand, The EU were shocked and very angry when they were told first off the country was bird flu free...and went back and delivered this message to their politicians...only to find out that they were lied to. Millions of birds were destroyed; the closed system was said to be the only way to grow chickens. Now....what is one of CP's biggest product lines? To think they were a minor player in the TRT government is to completely underestimate them.

So to think True are Democrat.... They are pro everyone that can help them :-) And the freetrade agreement with China, who do you think got to spend more time contributing to how it was written? CP? Or the Thai public? (hint, Thai public had zero opportunity to comment except in voting for the people who did the deal, there was basically no consultation at all)

Almost all of the TRT backers were rich from monopolies or protection (Shin included). So it is no surprise that they continued that when they were in power. Back then, the Democrat party stood for globalisation, deregulation and were taking the country down the path of painful medicine. TRT were able to pretty much rewind that, and keep a somewhat protected economic model going by basically relying on export growth via strong industry supported by FTAs and consumption fueled by a nice pump priming injection into the rural economy plus expanded credit which also tended to be designed to reward TRT faithful. Do not for a moment think that the godfathers who make up much of the 300 people in government now are in any way pro or anti foreigner. As the same faces as the previous government and governments before it, they are pro anything that makes them rich, and anti anything which makes them poor.

To describe any of this as 'anti foreigner' is to be a little simplistic. There were vested interests in not opening Thailand up to real competition in many sectors and there still are now.

Subsequent governments have for the most part not stepped too far from that same agenda.

The main difference is perhaps the rhetoric of TRT not accepting help in the tsunami, paying off the IMF, etc etc. All part of a Thai nationalistic theme done well and politically still ok with the world at large. By comparison, subsequent governments have tended to do many of the same things with a 5 year old level of comprehension of how saying these crazily nationalistic things might look to anyone who isn't Thai.

So....last 10 years....consistent theme....very different execution along the way. Dem. PT. PPP. TRT. The minor parties.... this is one of the hardest things to say in a nationalistic country...that we need to open our doors and compete against the world's best and kick their %^&*ing asses; give us a chance to play in the big leagues. No, not one party says that. They all say, 'here's this here's that' 'let us as your government look after you'.

The entire paradigm here is the government has an unlimited budget and should take all steps to look after everyone. How much and who gets what is the only issue. No one is saying government's job is to make our lives easier but other than that they should just get out of the way and stand back while we go and rock the world stage and stop trying to f&^*k s^&*t up.

So...I don't expect PT to be any more or less foreigner friendly than their predecessors, perhaps they will say it a little more nicely, but the underlying message will be much the same. Good news for the dive instructors and english teachers I suppose ;-)

If I was DTAC I would be more than a little worried...there's a reason that the Shin associated stocks soared up to almost 30% a day after the election. And it would be foolish to think that they don't still have a hand in the success or otherwise of AIS. After 4 years of close on fairly vindictive persecution of AIS, DTAC have had it relatively easy. Now it's probably their turn to suffer, given that True have the new government on their side anyhow and DTAC tried to screw True over recently.

After all, in all of this, it's only the consumer who suffers from lack of Telco deregulation. And we can be quietened down with some free tablet PCs and a bit more nationalistic fervour.

My sister in law has a "mom and pop shop" and where do you think she purchases, if not at hypermarkets ?!

Edited July 11, 2011 by DickFarang

[hellodolly]

Do you now understand, why under no circumstances I ever want to invest even one cent in Thailand ?

If you dislike and distrust the place so much why don't you go back home.

This " why don't you go back home" is so old and worn out! please come up with something better, more original

The thing is this IS home for many people of non Thai descent.

All people are asking for is equality and a little respect so we are allowed to contribute and be recognized for our contribution to society.

You wouldn't call an African in America a 'nigger' and tell him or her to get back on the banana boat and go home If he or she complained about their (repeated) negative experiences in the USA for example would you? I'd imagine if you heard someone talk like that you'd be quite shocked and embarrassed, yet repeatedly on this forum whenever people comment about their bad experiences their complaints and comments are met with a sanitized version of what essentially amounts to something akin to "<deleted> off back home nigger".

Apologies for any offense caused. Just trying to make a point.

To the best of my knowledge the expats here in Thailand have made a choice. They are not like the African Americans who are in many cases multi generation.

And yes I would tell a African who chose to move to America to go home if he didn't like it there.

[DickFarang]

I do not understand how Thailand continues to prevent foreign ownership of companies in the face of globalisation. Sooner or later a large foreign investor will say enough is enough and just pull the plug. Thailand, like the UK and many other countries, needs foreign investment and restrictive practices are not going to achieve this.

Foreign investors will not “pull the plug”; they will slow down investments.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Yep now the offer from Thaksins buddies will likely come in

to buy enough shares to make them legal again.

Likely at firesale rates of course.

Powerplay in the works for sure.

So you nasty Norwegians,

here's an offer you can't refuse.

Makes me think back to Monson,

Thaksin partnered with him to install technology,

but it came time to take profits and

he had Monson thrown in jail...

What a nonsense.. Is there any post where you do not mention Thaksin? Wonder what this man has done to you.

It's raining.... blame Thaksin!

Anyway do you know the democrates (your friends) are still in power? And that under their government this whole DTAC thing is initiated?

It's what he's done to Thailand that is the problem!!! His failed policies, especially those regarding the health service (30 baht healthcare scheme) and his botched "drugs off the street" killing of 1,400 innocents are what's wrong with Thaksin. I was going to give Yingluck the benefit of the doubt to prove herself but the early signs indicate that she is going to be a massively BIGGER disaster than that corrupt, greedy, selfish exploiter of the brain washed people he supposedly cares about (yeah right)!!!!

Have you seen the response of those in the know relating to Pheu Thai's 'popular pre-election policies' - basically it is "no, this is not good", "that won't work", "that will bankrupt Thailand in a few years", and the stupid "tablet for every child" idea has simply been slaughtered by the experts. She is going to be a walking disaster - let's face it how is she going to form her cabinet with what she's got??? I'm sorry, but there are going to be problems-a-plenty ahead and Thailand will suffer as a consequence.

Someone had better tell Abhisit that he's still in power because I'm sure that he thinks that he lost the election!!!! What has the government got to do with DTAC??? This row is all to do with True complaining that DTAC has employed nominee Thai's to hold shares on the companies behalf so that they can claim that they are a majority Thai held company. This is not a government initiated affair but relates to out of date protectionist laws (in urgent need of redraughting or altering) because this will whole episode will damage Thailand's standing in the business world and scare off the much needed investment from foreign companies.

[volk666]

I think Dtac should seriously consider cutting the losses and closing the shop. First Norwegians came here they partnered with the second biggest telco here run by one of the biggest families in the country and they were a few months ahead of Orange who partnered with Chicken People.

Little did they know that TRT government had different ideas on telco liberalization. Orange people were wise and got out two-three years later and True was born, Telenor/Dtac chose to stay on, Then the their local partners decided to quit instead, Telenor was all on its own and it build us a pretty darn good company.

Now Chicken People decided to kill all foreign competition. Without local back up Dtac is doomed. They are not allowed to offer 3G on their existing spectrum, they've been begging for a year already but their concession holder, CAT, only allows True to provide 3G as much as they want. Then Cat privately sold Hutch to True and basically gave them a free license for nationwide 3G, Dtac is still limited to 36 base stations in Bangkok.

Now True is suing Dtac for foreign ownership and there's no way Dtac can win this battle.

A few days ago AIS signed a roaming deal with TOT to use their 3G network in Bangkok and later nationwide, Dtac is still waiting for the auction where they can buy their 3G license. Are they stupid? They've been outsmarted and outflanked, there are no rules in this business here.

Ais got their 3G deal for free, just charge the customers, and True bought an entire nationwide network for less than Dtac was going to pay just for the right to invest.

As much as I like the company, but it's becoming a third wheel in this, it has no future place, they are caught between CP and Shin and the laws are here only when someone wants to screw you out of your business.

So Telenor will be forced out if they don't go voluntarily and their company will be up for grabs. I don't think staying on in this climate would be justified before their shareholders - without prospects for 3G they will start bleeding customers left and right, losing on the smartphone mania and fast growing data market. Voice alone is not going to carry them through, voice revenues are shrinking already. Dtac has not future, sadly.

Edited July 11, 2011 by volk666

[letitbe]

Do you now understand, why under no circumstances I ever want to invest even one cent in Thailand ?

If you dislike and distrust the place so much why don't you go back home.

Ive invested around 100 million baht here over 15 years in business, shares and property and up to now have done quite well but i do distrust place same as I distrust in west. I would say I would never ever go into business with a Thai or do any business which was in direct competition with what Thais can do and they do some things very well. I dont dislike place I just dislike Taksin and what he did when last in power and now will try to do again. I believe he will or could destroy Thailand in search for his own goals and im totally sure he aspires to being totally in control of everything. IF he is successful in this it will take I think 5-10 years for him to cement total power. By that time if he gets his way then it will be far to late since im sure Thailand will at very least be in a 1 party 1 clan state. Their are many things that can and I hope will stop this evil person. I have however after 15 years here liquidated a large part of our money and will over next 3 years or so liquidate what else I can. However I and my wife and 2 children will stay here until such time as it becomes impossible to sensibly do so. I actually like most of people and even a number of Taksin and red supporters but believe they are totally deluded and brainwashed. Time will tell but id rather not have so much of our assets here until Taksin is totally out of the scene. I know a lot of forang who think the same as me and to be fair a lot who seem to believe Taksins sister has anything to do with it but they are all newcomers. I also know perfectly sensible Thais educated and quite rich who totally believe they voted for Yinglik and not Taksin. But then I know a lot of people who thought Bush was great.

[luvU2much500THB]

Does this mean I don't need to buy that nice, new, shiny 4G phone as yet

4G? No need to buy even a 3G because Thailand not have 3G but i rememeber DTAC wanted to be the first offering 3G networks

[luvU2much500THB]

Dtac has not future, sadly.

Yeah it is sad because it is a great company and top service.

I was in thailand June/july and for 12 baht or so they extended my SIM Card until 31.March,2012 because i come back Februrary and not want to buy a new sim card and keep my number,

[templedog]

Xenophobia from THE DEMOCRATS.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

In contrast, I cannot find any anti-foreign sentiment at PTP, or at least not more than what alreadt exists among the civil service and the outgoing government.

Do you honestly think this is about race and not money?

[templedog]

"Taksin..................when last in power and now will try to do again. I believe he will or could destroy Thailand in search for his own goals and im totally sure he aspires to being totally in control of everything."

PRIVATIZATION!!! This is exactly what most people miss out of pure ignorance, otherwise, they welcome it for their own selfish gain. Thaksin was a follower of GWB in the USA (Untied States of Amnesia), and now he wishes to follow the same path as Bush so he can be a "world player", just like the big western guys. IMO, he has an insatiable want for power and money.......and nothing will stop him until he gets what he wants before he dies. John D. Rockefeller was born to an unloving father and became the world's richest man simply to prove himself in the eyes of "the old man". Does anyone know Thaksin's family background? I am curious. By the way, It's raining......I don't give credit to Thaksin..... because water is life....."nam khe shevit" (Thai proverb).....Thaksin is the opposite to Thailand's future as an independent economy. He is just like any other twisted greedy megalomaniac,...................and he most likely has a small peepee. ;-)

Do you now understand, why under no circumstances I ever want to invest even one cent in Thailand ?

If you dislike and distrust the place so much why don't you go back home.

Ive invested around 100 million baht here over 15 years in business, shares and property and up to now have done quite well but i do distrust place same as I distrust in west. I would say I would never ever go into business with a Thai or do any business which was in direct competition with what Thais can do and they do some things very well. I dont dislike place I just dislike Taksin and what he did when last in power and now will try to do again. I believe he will or could destroy Thailand in search for his own goals and im totally sure he aspires to being totally in control of everything. IF he is successful in this it will take I think 5-10 years for him to cement total power. By that time if he gets his way then it will be far to late since im sure Thailand will at very least be in a 1 party 1 clan state. Their are many things that can and I hope will stop this evil person. I have however after 15 years here liquidated a large part of our money and will over next 3 years or so liquidate what else I can. However I and my wife and 2 children will stay here until such time as it becomes impossible to sensibly do so. I actually like most of people and even a number of Taksin and red supporters but believe they are totally deluded and brainwashed. Time will tell but id rather not have so much of our assets here until Taksin is totally out of the scene. I know a lot of forang who think the same as me and to be fair a lot who seem to believe Taksins sister has anything to do with it but they are all newcomers. I also know perfectly sensible Thais educated and quite rich who totally believe they voted for Yinglik and not Taksin. But then I know a lot of people who thought Bush was great.

[473geo]

My small comment is simply this; The backward, closed shop anti foreign policy of property and land ownership simply has no place in a global economy.

I disagree, keep Thailand for Thai people it is all a lot of them will ever own, why allow others to come and buy your land, take over your country just to align with global economies. People who can exist on smallholdings are no burden to the economy and provide a bottomless well of cheap labour when required to keep the country competitive.

Circa 72% of New Zealand pine forest is foreign owned, dairies, and vinyards are also foreign owned. To what benefit to the New Zealanders. Next will come the purchase of farms by more affluent foreigners.....yep the global economy is doing just fine for New Zealand......it is buying it!.....you think for the New Zealand people?

[MAJIC]

Do you now understand, why under no circumstances I ever want to invest even one cent in Thailand ?

If you dislike and distrust the place so much why don't you go back home.

This " why don't you go back home" is so old and worn out! please come up with something better, more original

I thought it was quite original, it must be all of 1.5 days,since I have seen the remark on Thai Visa.

[templedog]

Does anyone out there, besides the deluded Thais, truly believe that Thaksin is "for the people" and not simply for his own interests?

[templedog]

TOT is currently running a limited 2.9G network. And, is in the process of investing fiber optic internet. ;-)

Does this mean I don't need to buy that nice, new, shiny 4G phone as yet

4G? No need to buy even a 3G because Thailand not have 3G but i rememeber DTAC wanted to be the first offering 3G networks

[templedog]

I mostly agree with you, except that some current land grabbing from "foreign owned" properties has emerged in Pattaya and Phuket,

by greedy and corrupt Thai politicians. If they can target the true exploiters, okay, if not, then don't promote foreign interest and then complain about it.

My small comment is simply this; The backward, closed shop anti foreign policy of property and land ownership simply has no place in a global economy.

I disagree, keep Thailand for Thai people it is all a lot of them will ever own, why allow others to come and buy your land, take over your country just to align with global economies. People who can exist on smallholdings are no burden to the economy and provide a bottomless well of cheap labour when required to keep the country competitive.

Circa 72% of New Zealand pine forest is foreign owned, dairies, and vinyards are also foreign owned. To what benefit to the New Zealanders. Next will come the purchase of farms by more affluent foreigners.....yep the global economy is doing just fine for New Zealand......it is buying it!.....you think for the New Zealand people?

[balo]

We (Yes I am a Norwegian) have the best telecom technology in the world and if Thailand dont want our help and money to build an infrastructure for 4G then fine .

Stay in the stone age , you belong there, together with True.

Edited July 12, 2011 by metisdead
Bold font removed.

[stanley2550]

Aliens wow! Now what planet do you think the Thais are from? Where did they come from? hmmmm! Were the Thais born with this kind of mentality or did they go to a University and earn a degree in it.

It looks like any 3 G won''t be here any time soon; let alone 4 G and with the next generation 5 G on the horizon; it becomes a very dusty road in Thailand with all their said stories. Doesn't it make you just want to cry......

[stanley2550]

It dosne't look like the Thai Governement will be joining the rest of the world community anytime within the next century. whoops I forgot this is a Buddhist country. Now what are the 5 Major Precepts again...

1. No Killing or harm to anyone or anything.

2. No Stealing.

3. No Lying for any reason including the aim to extort money fraudulently. Hmmm!

4, No use of alcohol or any mind alterning substances.

5. No sexual relations outside the cultural norms of Society.

Has Thailand ,which claims to be a quote unquote "Buddhist" country flunked the test.?

You decide!

[cyborgx]

All I can comment is GOOD, these people need to be taken down a step or two. I have been a customer of DTAC for at least 13 years and 90% of their staff are ignorant and/or rude. Their customer support is crap, and their secretaries act like Khum Yings believing that they can get away with the same crap as their managers, saying they are in meetings 24/7, and don't return calls. If it wasn't so inconvenient to change phone numbers, I would have dumped their service years ago.

Who wants the headache of doing business with a company staffed so badly?

Edited July 11, 2011 by cyborgx

[KKK]

More sillyness from Thailand's so called business and political elite. They're all behaving like kindergarden kids fighting over a crayon. Time to grow up and get an IQ>100.