Racism

[Jingthing]

If I believe blacks, on average, are better basketball players that whites, am I a racist? If I believe Asians, on average, make better nuclear phyicists that blacks, am I a racist?

Not exactly. However there are some facts we know about GENETICS.

To wit,

take 100 random dark skinned African descent people and 100 random Asian descent people out of their cultural environment and train them from an early age to be nuclear physicists. The groups will perform about the same, except for random differences.

take 100 light skinned people and 100 dark skinned people (with genetic history of being TALL) out of their cultural environment and train them from an early age to be basketball players. The groups will perform about the same, except for random differences.

To observe that cultural differences/expectations/aspirations do in REAL life show trends based on color may or may not be an expression of racism, depending on whether you think these differences are determined by race based GENES, which they are NOT.

Keep in mind that for a few decades in the early 1900's in the USA (home of basketball) it was JEWS who totally dominated basketball (and also very important in BOXING). Don't let your brain explode on that one. Think about why Jews were dominant then and are now practically non-existent in basketball. Think culture and economics, not genetics.

Take a random group of people of all different colors and superficial racial characteristics such as thick lips, round eyes, olive skin. Believe it or not, two jet black people in that group are usually closer genetically to people you would never expect, such as a super white Finn, than to each other. These superficial "race" things that so many people see as so big, and even deterministic of lives, are very tiny genetically.

Edited July 14, 2011 by Jingthing

[x5david]

"...I was wondering how the officials of the blatantly RACIST marathon (yes, it is) would deal with a totally Americanized "Asian" American winning the race. Prize money, or not?..."

Interesting query (but isn't that person an American to these folks?). "Asian..." In this case, I'm thinking they'll only award prize money to: an Asian person who resides in an Asian country (might be wrong).

I have a friend who comes here occasionally, a Chinese American. He is always gets Thai pricing everywhere we go. Apparently if you look Asian, that is good enough.... And he doesn't speak Thai.

[twix38]

Just to put the record straight.

My interpretation of the prize money to Asians only was specifically stated.

"Cash reward in overall age group rewards presented to Thai and Asian nationality only"

I believe foreigners probably do benefit from prize money for the full marathon.

The exclusion in rule no. 1 is specific to age group reward. Whatever that category means exactly. I stand to be corrected.

However, this doesn't change one iota that I believe rule no.1 to be a racist statement or that those who have any general understanding of Thai attitudes/education would doubt racism is a prevalent issue exhibited frequently by authorities, and in rules and official dealings.

One thing I will admit is that in Thailand it's brought home when one is the victim of racist targeting rather than being solely a point of principle and when it is frequently apparent.

Again, let's ask the Mayor to explain why a Pattaya City endorsed event includes choosing one group to benefit and one to be excluded based on race - being Asian or not. Perhaps when he is there firing the starting pistol or giving out prizes someone could ******stick one of the leaflets in his face and ask him to explain about rule number 1 and if he's heard of a term known the world over as RACISM?*****

Look, the test is to ask if this were reversed would it be acceptable in any of our home countries? I think we all know it would not be, yet we just say here....if you don't like it leave. No, I do like it here, but I don't like being subject to racism in so many ways.

To repeat, I think our home countries should finally start to address this rather obvious and increasing trend and say it is unacceptable to be a widespread and endemic issue. If these racist tendencies are not at least diluted from all walks of everyday life then individual countries will act to serve their subjects who live and work here or Europe as a whole will address it before it escalates further.

The statement in rule no.1 is just PLAIN racist imho.

How else can it be read? why isn't it?

Edited July 14, 2011 by twix38

[TongueThaied]

If I believe blacks, on average, are better basketball players that whites, am I a racist? If I believe Asians, on average, make better nuclear phyicists that blacks, am I a racist?

Not exactly. However there are some facts we know about GENETICS.

To wit,

take 100 random dark skinned African descent people and 100 random Asian descent people out of their cultural environment and train them from an early age to be nuclear physicists. The groups will perform about the same, except for random differences.

take 100 light skinned people and 100 dark skinned people (with genetic history of being TALL) out of their cultural environment and train them from an early age to be basketball players. The groups will perform about the same, except for random differences.

To observe that cultural differences/expectations/aspirations do in REAL life show trends based on color may or may not be an expression of racism, depending on whether you think these differences are determined by race based GENES, which they are NOT.

Keep in mind that for a few decades in the early 1900's in the USA (home of basketball) it was JEWS who totally dominated basketball (and also very important in BOXING). Don't let your brain explode on that one. Think about why Jews were dominant then and are now practically non-existent in basketball. Think culture and economics, not genetics.

Take a random group of people of all different colors and superficial racial characteristics such as thick lips, round eyes, olive skin. Believe it or not, two jet black people in that group are usually closer genetically to people you would never expect, such as a super white Finn, than to each other. These superficial "race" things that so many people see as so big, and even deterministic of lives, are very tiny genetically.

Ah, the old "culture" argument. A lot of unfounded conclusions with no actual evidence. The experiments you describe have never been tried, so how can you pronounce what the results would be? Unfortunately, such experiments are taboo, becasue the truth would ONLY be acceptable if it turned out to be what you predict. When the politcally correct crowd may not like the answer, they don't allow the question. So, as long as things are the way they are, the truth will stay under wraps. At least I have enough wisdom to admit that I don't know the answer.

Speaking of the polically correct Gestapo of the US, do you have any idea how many professionals in the US have been DESTROYED because they innocently, but publically, used the word "niggardly." This shit outrages me. And people wonder why the US has problems.

By the way, when Jews ruled boxing and basketball, blacks weren't allowed to play. Do you suppose this had something to do with it, or had you forgetten? Again, you imply things that have no basis in known fact. I guess you could attribute it to the "American culture" of the time.

Edited July 14, 2011 by TongueThaied

[PattayaParent]

The prize is probably limited to Asians not because they don't want Farangs to win it, but because they don't want Kenyans to win it.

Wasn't it won last year by a Kenyan and they had to 'disqualify' him so that a Thai could be the winner?

It's still racism though.

[TongueThaied]

The prize is probably limited to Asians not because they don't want Farangs to win it, but because they don't want Kenyans to win it.

Wasn't it won last year by a Kenyan and they had to 'disqualify' him so that a Thai could be the winner?

It's still racism though.

Must be something about that "Kenyan culture" that makes them so damned fast! It's a jing thing.

[Naam]

Racism Does it get to you?

it does not. is something wrong with me?

[92302]

Racism Does it get to you?

it does not. is something wrong with me?

Yes, you have an odd shaped head.

[luudee]

I am too disgusted by the dual pricing AND constant "rip-off-the-farang"

policies. Thais are masters in these areas, which go far beyond the

rich-should-pay-more. I am happy to help foundations, like Father Ray,

who take care of homeless kids, because I am better off than most

Thais. But, those guys who run these rip-off schemes are not exactly

poor.

If anybody would try to do that in any western country, they would be

taken to court and shut down.

I generally avoid shops and places that have those type of policies.

There are "decent" thais and thai shops who charge everybody the

same. I support those and avoid the greedy uneducated rip-off places ...

I also import a lot of tech gizmos. I have lots of good friends who fly

frequently and are happy to bring stuff for me ...

Cheers,

rudi

PS: Reminds me of the beggars on Jiohm Thien. I recognized some

of them in the Thepprasit market. All of them (large family) where nicely

dressed with HUGE gold chains around their necks. Yes I am 100%

sure it was the same group that works the beach. I once offered a job

to the guy with one leg, 300 baht per day (full time). He laughed at me

and refused. Mumbling something like "Tee nee dee qua !"

Edited July 14, 2011 by luudee

[tropo]

In this case, yes racism, no doubt. It's the part about the ASIANS, not the Thai part. If only differential for Thais, one can defend with the BS arguments, it's just a discount for Thais!, it's nationalism!, it's a socialist sentiment!, yadda yadda yadda.

Add the ASIAN part and that all goes out the window. Asian? Japanese, Singaporean? So poor. They can't afford the higher price. Asian? Burmese. So rich! They don't deserve the prize if they win. This can't be argued. It smells and stop trying to make excuses for it

You've always been notoriously quick to bring out the "racism" card whenever you can. Here's just another excuse for you to wave it around.

[tropo]

Blacks in America are certainly awarded a lot of "prize money" to go to school that whites cannot get. Go there and protest.

That's nothing compared to the advantages of being Maori in New Zealand.

[hehehoho]

As a black man I find that most racism here comes from farangs.

I also see that it's mostly formed by feelings of inferiority and jealousy.

Perhaps see it as a compliment.

Edited July 14, 2011 by hehehoho

[londoedan]

As a black man I find that most racism here comes from farangs.

Really ? I can't say that matches with my experience all.

[Darrel]

As a black man I find that most racism here comes from farangs.

"All I know is never bet on the white guy." Lt Frank Drebin, Police Squad.

[tropo]

many thais,aren't happy with dark people.the darker you are the worst it gets.I don't have any problem with the way they think

It is rather ironic that people continue harping on about skin colour and that they are anti-white skin. Thais love white skin. It's a sign of breeding and something they all envy. You don't see many Thai models, actresses or singers with dark skin. Check out the supermarket shelves loaded with skin-whitening creams.

[MrSmug]

As a black man I find that most racism here comes from farangs.

I also see that it's mostly formed by feelings of inferiority and jealousy.

Perhaps see it as a compliment.

Why do all ride those hideous Honda's like maniacs where your legs are stretched out in front ?

[ra1n85]

Like most have said here, just ignore it and try to focus on the positives - no place is perfect.

Excluding groups from prize money is ignorant. So is charging different prices to different ethnicities.

I can tell you one thing, though - a marathon in Kenya wouldn't exclude me as a white male from winning prize money!

With this stuff, all you can do is laugh. In the end, the same guy who overcharged/excluded me has to watch me walk off

with a beautiful Thai woman he could never have.

[NALAK]

ah well at least the ladies are raicist in favour of us farnags, not like thai man want farang so something good to come out of the racism thing

Not so sure you got that one right, more like "i like farang he have big money"

still a form a racism though, just a reason for the racism, and they are racist even towards dark skinned people with money. still i have to live with down side of being a white rich farang racism so the posative side compensates.

[englishinsiam]

Dual Pricing happens in Spain at Tourist parks, Zoos etc but it's only a discount of about 30% for Spanish residents. I used to get it as I had Spanish Residencia I think it's because they assume you pay tax in Spain so have earned a discount.

My wife and I went to a Park in Pattaya for her 40 Baht for me 400 Baht we turned around she was disgusted by the difference too and we didn't pay. I did tell the guys it was racist to have such a marked difference. And one of the guys agreed and apologised to which I was pretty surprised.

However once I started showing my Thai Driving licence I started getting in for Thai prices to places. Even the National Park on Koh Samet.

Regarding the original event in Pattaya how would the Thai's act if an Eastern Russian, Indian or Pakistani won the race? Afterall they are part of Asia too.

[NALAK]

The prize is probably limited to Asians not because they don't want Farangs to win it, but because they don't want Kenyans to win it.

Wasn't it won last year by a Kenyan and they had to 'disqualify' him so that a Thai could be the winner?

It's still racism though.

Must be something about that "Kenyan culture" that makes them so damned fast! It's a jing thing.

altititude. culture, physical style of legs, so i just read when googled it

[englishinsiam]

I just read the BBC News article of the 'Thai woman' living in N. Ireland and I don't for one minute think it was written by a Thai Woman.

How many Thai women from poor bckgrounds have been to Beirut, America midwest and South Africa.

Thats a middle classed white man writing that.

The BBC is too obsessed with being PC lately with their positive discrimination rubbish.

For those of you not from UK or America - Positive discrimination is racism against the indigenous Caucasions in favour of Nationalised Blacks, Asians and immigrants.

[NALAK]

still think alot of the PC countries like the UK who have made such a hash of it and made people racist by being pro black or asian, lowering entry standards to police, fire brigade etc have a lot to learn from how Thailand deals with racism. simple this is the way it is dont like it theres the door. overall the Thai system deals with what has to be one of the worlds biggest melting pots and genereally we all get on forigners and Thai alike. Britain, has made a right hash as has many european countries, and now far right parties are going from strenght to stenghth. then goverments tell us we are ignorant of the facts and should not do it. whilst they live in ivory towers well away from the mixing pots they have stirred up. i take the Thai system every time.Its a Buddist country period!!! other religions tolerated.

[doggie888888]

When people on TV slag off Russians, Arabs, Indians, Japs, is that also racism?

Yes it is. Funny thing is that the ones who cry RACIST the moment they are charged a non-Thai price (probably due to a misconception that all foreigners are rich, not necessarily a racist thing) are often the ones who are slagging off the Russians, Arabs, Indians etc. Heck, a few months ago many people thought Chin*y was an OK name for a chinese takeaway here...I knew of at least one person (Thai Chinese) who found it offensive and I belIeve he did complain to some authority (City Hall??) AND GOOD ON HIM ! But I was shocked at the number of posters here who thought the name was perfectly acceptable in a city with a sizeable local Chinese community.

Also, perhaps over a year ago, there was some other report that mentioned TV as a bastion of red necks and racist hicks....and it amuses me some posters here (not all, but some notable ones who are a tad red under their collars) think Thailand and Thais are racist. The response "if you dont like it, you are free to leave" is most apt for such hypocrites.

[Samuian]

What keeps sending me off right away and since day 1 the immense superiority complex of some, the inferiority complex of others and the mega-profile neurosis of the wanna be's, many seem to be suffering from a combination of all 3! Next are the incredible "funny" comedies and the soaps!

Edited July 14, 2011 by Samuian

[Tokay]

I wish every country in the world would reciprocate Thailand's kind hospitality and ridiculous price gouging / double pricing.

And apply it to Thailand's highest gov officials traveling abroad and to the lowest paid labor worker and everyone in between.

That would be fair.

"Welcome to Universal Studios - $10 for Americans and all other nationalities / $300 for Thais"

"Would you like to rent a room? It's $75 a night for all nationalities except Thailand. For Thais it's $400 a night."

Yea, I like the sound of that.

[ThaiBob]

I wish every country in the world would reciprocate Thailand's kind hospitality and ridiculous price gouging / double pricing.

And apply it to Thailand's highest gov officials traveling abroad and to the lowest paid labor worker and everyone in between.

That would be fair.

"Welcome to Universal Studios - $10 for Americans and all other nationalities / $300 for Thais"

"Would you like to rent a room? It's $75 a night for all nationalities except Thailand. For Thais it's $400 a night."

Yea, I like the sound of that.

As an American when I come to Thailand I get to stay 30 days free. When a Thai applies to come to America it costs $100 (over 3000 baht) with no guaranteed acceptance. So who is gouging who?

When I use our National Parks, local zoos, libraries, parks, etc. it is free but everyone else pays. We charge tourists more for hotels (tax), cable cars, etc. Perks for citizens, and double pricing exists everywhere so get over it.

[tropo]

I wish every country in the world would reciprocate Thailand's kind hospitality and ridiculous price gouging / double pricing.

And apply it to Thailand's highest gov officials traveling abroad and to the lowest paid labor worker and everyone in between.

That would be fair.

"Welcome to Universal Studios - $10 for Americans and all other nationalities / $300 for Thais"

"Would you like to rent a room? It's $75 a night for all nationalities except Thailand. For Thais it's $400 a night."

Yea, I like the sound of that.

As an American when I come to Thailand I get to stay 30 days free. When a Thai applies to come to America it costs $100 (over 3000 baht) with no guaranteed acceptance. So who is gouging who?

When I use our National Parks, local zoos, libraries, parks, etc. it is free but everyone else pays. We charge tourists more for hotels (tax), cable cars, etc. Perks for citizens, and double pricing exists everywhere so get over it.

In Australia you get a lot of things cheaper if you're unemployed, sick or elderly.... public transport, national parks, cinema, medicine .... the list goes on. Were I used to live, which is a tourist region, locals got a lot of things cheaper too. The idea is to improve cash flow during the low tourist season.

Double pricing - yes, we are guilty too. No one really bothered running around screaming: "racism, racism".

[tropo]

Regarding the original event in Pattaya how would the Thai's act if an Eastern Russian, Indian or Pakistani won the race? Afterall they are part of Asia too.

You're being a bit dramatic with your examples.

I'll bet anything they are talking about SE Asia. English wording is not Thailand's strong point.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

I wish every country in the world would reciprocate Thailand's kind hospitality and ridiculous price gouging / double pricing.

And apply it to Thailand's highest gov officials traveling abroad and to the lowest paid labor worker and everyone in between.

That would be fair.

"Welcome to Universal Studios - $10 for Americans and all other nationalities / $300 for Thais"

"Would you like to rent a room? It's $75 a night for all nationalities except Thailand. For Thais it's $400 a night."

Yea, I like the sound of that.

As an American when I come to Thailand I get to stay 30 days free. When a Thai applies to come to America it costs $100 (over 3000 baht) with no guaranteed acceptance. So who is gouging who?

When I use our National Parks, local zoos, libraries, parks, etc. it is free but everyone else pays. We charge tourists more for hotels (tax), cable cars, etc. Perks for citizens, and double pricing exists everywhere so get over it.

First, I want to say that I like Tokay's solution and would like to see it starting at USA airports. Second, I want to say to ThaiBob that I have never seen an example of what you say exists in the USA. Forget about the silly visa example (that is a different story). I am talking about charging tourists more. I have never seen that anywhere in the USA. I have seen discrimination by state residency, but that is not the same as discriminating by race. I would like proof of what you said, maybe a link to the info.

[PattayaPhom]

I wish every country in the world would reciprocate Thailand's kind hospitality and ridiculous price gouging / double pricing.

And apply it to Thailand's highest gov officials traveling abroad and to the lowest paid labor worker and everyone in between.

That would be fair.

"Welcome to Universal Studios - $10 for Americans and all other nationalities / $300 for Thais"

"Would you like to rent a room? It's $75 a night for all nationalities except Thailand. For Thais it's $400 a night."

Yea, I like the sound of that.

That is the fairest way.

Edited July 15, 2011 by PattayaProp