Baptism Of Fire A Sign Of Things To Come For Yingluck

[lannarebirth]

The Election Commission notwithstanding its origins has an important job to do.If it did not exist its functions would need to be performed by another body.I think therefore notwithstanding any reservations about its cautious approach it should be given the benefit of the doubt.At the same time most non partisan observers will recognise the danger of the EC perhaps involuntarily being enlisted in the battle between the unelected elites and the Thai people as whole.It's too early in my view to draw any conclusions on this front though clearly this needs to be monitored.The EC must do its job with care and urgency.But it must also bear in mind its whole reason for existence is to reflect the fairly expressed will of the people, not to kowtow to the forces wholly hostile to the Thai peoples democratic wishes.

I would have thought that their reason for existence is to uphold the election laws.

The will of the people can be used to change laws through parliament. It shouldn't be used to override existing laws.

Especially when it's potentially only the will of some of the people.

As Suranand Vejjaviva points out in the other paper the EC was created as an instrument of democracy and thus should serve the people's interest, not those elements which are trying to distort it.

I don't understand your last sentence.Are you suggesting the PTP and its coalition partners don't have a democratic mandate?

TRT gained a people's mandate in the 2001 elections. Another instrument of democracy, The Constitutional Court acquitted him of assets concealment, though in private they siad he was guilty. Their justification was that he had a popular mandate so they were therefore afraid to apply the law. Do you think that was the right decision and how these "instruments of democracy" should work?

[tominbkk]

There's a BP article today about how PTP and Thaksin2 have already discounted nearly all their campaign promises, openly, to the press. Check it out. Didn't take them long to show everyone that they are true snakes in the grass! Bet they are really only here to keep one promise, and Thaskin1 will do anything and pay anything to make that happen!!!!

Edited July 15, 2011 by tominbkk

[hammered]

Who are the Election Commission and are they totally above board, independent , and untainted by any skeletons in the closet?

The Election Commission notwithstanding its origins has an important job to do.If it did not exist its functions would need to be performed by another body.I think therefore notwithstanding any reservations about its cautious approach it should be given the benefit of the doubt.At the same time most non partisan observers will recognise the danger of the EC perhaps involuntarily being enlisted in the battle between the unelected elites and the Thai people as whole.It's too early in my view to draw any conclusions on this front though clearly this needs to be monitored.The EC must do its job with care and urgency.But it must also bear in mind its whole reason for existence is to reflect the fairly expressed will of the people, not to kowtow to the forces wholly hostile to the Thai peoples democratic wishes.

A fine response.

The question then arises who monitors the monitors.

Traditonally the media would be expected to monitor the monitors. Thai Rath the countries only newspaper with much of a readership has already started asking questions of the monitors in this case although you will need to read Thai to see it. One of the EC before the election actually made a quite worrying prediction

[tigermonkey]

There's a BP article today about how PTP and Thaksin2 have already discounted nearly all their campaign promises, openly, to the press. Check it out. Didn't take them long to show everyone that they are true snakes in the grass! Bet they are really only here to keep one promise, and Thaskin1 will do anything and pay anything to make that happen!!!!

I would love to read the article in question, but I only have access to BP online. We don't get BP delivered to the farms in the north.

The only thing I could find was an article about the increase in minimum wage. Can you tell me how to read this article about discounting " nearly all of their campaign promises". I am surprised that it does not show online today.

[Livinginexile]

Who are the Election Commission and are they totally above board, independent , and untainted by any skeletons in the closet?

The Election Commission notwithstanding its origins has an important job to do.If it did not exist its functions would need to be performed by another body.I think therefore notwithstanding any reservations about its cautious approach it should be given the benefit of the doubt.At the same time most non partisan observers will recognise the danger of the EC perhaps involuntarily being enlisted in the battle between the unelected elites and the Thai people as whole.It's too early in my view to draw any conclusions on this front though clearly this needs to be monitored.The EC must do its job with care and urgency.But it must also bear in mind its whole reason for existence is to reflect the fairly expressed will of the people, not to kowtow to the forces wholly hostile to the Thai peoples democratic wishes.

A fine response.

The question then arises who monitors the monitors.

Why, the Privy Council, of course. Unofficially maybe.

And who leads the PC?

Hole in one!

There you have it.

[Livinginexile]

There's a BP article today about how PTP and Thaksin2 have already discounted nearly all their campaign promises, openly, to the press. Check it out. Didn't take them long to show everyone that they are true snakes in the grass! Bet they are really only here to keep one promise, and Thaskin1 will do anything and pay anything to make that happen!!!!

Show us the link!

I can't find it anywhere on BP site.

Or are you just making it up?

Edited July 15, 2011 by cdnvic
MOD's NOTE: The BP does not allow us to outlink. That's their rule, not ours.

[looping]

I'm interested to see if Yingluck manages to break the chains from the puppet master to salvage her political career or if she's already too caught up in the web of lies. It must be horrible having tomorrow's whopping lies dictated to you on the phone.

Even the people who voted for her must be having 2nd thoughts (or 1st thoughts as the case may be). My guess is that she's done for, but she has served her purpose politically: 'Is Thaland ready for a female PM?' took the heat of the real issues, whilst her political inexperience helped her avoid the pre-election debate, and helped win the election. Good job Thaksin, who's next on the chopping board?

[jayboy]

You are really hung up on proof aren't you. Why do you insist on ignoring the obvious and throwing common sense out the window.

Yes I think proof of a proposition (or as close as possible to it) is to be preferred to hysteria and irrationality.

What you blithely describe as common sense (Thaksin controlling terrorist armies) would be seen by others as pure nonsense.I would say the same of the redshirt hotheads who have accused Abhisit of murder.

[noahvail]

There's a BP article today about how PTP and Thaksin2 have already discounted nearly all their campaign promises, openly, to the press. Check it out. Didn't take them long to show everyone that they are true snakes in the grass! Bet they are really only here to keep one promise, and Thaskin1 will do anything and pay anything to make that happen!!!!

Show us the link!

I can't find it anywhere on BP site.

Or are you just making it up?

The Bangkok Post will not permit ThaiVisa.com to provide links to their articles. But if go to their homepage (not hard to figure out what that is), the main article is called "Backtracking."

[whybother]

I would love to read the article in question, but I only have access to BP online. We don't get BP delivered to the farms in the north.

The only thing I could find was an article about the increase in minimum wage. Can you tell me how to read this article about discounting " nearly all of their campaign promises". I am surprised that it does not show online today.

Show us the link!

I can't find it anywhere on BP site.

Or are you just making it up?

Unfortunately, the Bangkok Post does not allow links on TV. If you go online to bangkokpost dot com, it's the main article on the home page titled "Backtracking".

Basically, it's saying PTP is backtracking on:

- Promise: scrap the oil fund - Now: no plan to scrap the oil fund.

- Promise: build a dam and reclaim land - Now: "we didn't announce that we will do the projects, just that we will conduct studies"

- Promise: minimum wage of 300 baht nationwide immediately - Now: "you have to understand it was a campaign speech". Bangkok now. Other provinces within one year. They are also saying that not all provinces will get 300 baht.

- Promise: Rice mortgage scheme. 15,000 baht for regular paddy. 20,000 baht for hom mali. Now - only farmers with the credit card issued by the government will take part.

[noahvail]

There's a BP article today about how PTP and Thaksin2 have already discounted nearly all their campaign promises, openly, to the press. Check it out. Didn't take them long to show everyone that they are true snakes in the grass! Bet they are really only here to keep one promise, and Thaskin1 will do anything and pay anything to make that happen!!!!

My wife read the article and asked the red shirt leader in her village about the backflipping. His response was that Yingluck had said all those things wouldn't happen - BEFORE the election!

[hammered]

If PTP backtracks on all its pledges then it will have to answer to the voters at the next election. That is how demcoracy works. One problem though is if the voters reject PTP at the next election, who will they turn to? They have already rejected the democrats repeatedly and the democrat establishment is despised and hated with a vengeance across great swathes of the land, and if there isnt a party they feel they can support then thing scould get very messy. You never ever want to have a system in which people think they have no stake and feel they have no way to express themselves.

Many people seem to forget the reds didnt create the feeling sof being downtrodden and used, those feelings were always there. What the reds did was to give a direction for the anger and frustration to come out. Now it is coming out it cant be stopped. It is better if the people have apoltical party that does what they want, but if PTP goes back on everything it is more likely a very red party will benefit and I doubt many on here who dislike Thaksin or many in the elite would want to see this eventuality. People should maybe not hoping that PTP goes back on all its pledges but hoping they keep people happy enough with the ones they do keep. The people aint turning to the Dems led by Abhisit to save them any time soon.

[whybother]

If PTP backtracks on all its pledges then it will have to answer to the voters at the next election. That is how demcoracy works. One problem though is if the voters reject PTP at the next election, who will they turn to? They have already rejected the democrats repeatedly and the democrat establishment is despised and hated with a vengeance across great swathes of the land, and if there isnt a party they feel they can support then thing scould get very messy. You never ever want to have a system in which people think they have no stake and feel they have no way to express themselves.

Many people seem to forget the reds didnt create the feeling sof being downtrodden and used, those feelings were always there. What the reds did was to give a direction for the anger and frustration to come out. Now it is coming out it cant be stopped. It is better if the people have apoltical party that does what they want, but if PTP goes back on everything it is more likely a very red party will benefit and I doubt many on here who dislike Thaksin or many in the elite would want to see this eventuality. People should maybe not hoping that PTP goes back on all its pledges but hoping they keep people happy enough with the ones they do keep. The people aint turning to the Dems led by Abhisit to save them any time soon.

Maybe if (some of) the reds realise that the PTP and Thaksin aren't all they're talked up to be, they will stop listening to the red propaganda and start listening to others. With that, they might even realise that the Democrats were not the heartless bastards that they were made out to be. Even if they don't go with the Democrats, they will have still opened their minds a bit and will look at feasible options to improve their well being.

[Jingthing]

Democracy also works by the rule of law. It's not clear as yet whether Yingluck is even going to be legally eligible to be a Thai PM in the first place.

[hellodolly]

You are really hung up on proof aren't you. Why do you insist on ignoring the obvious and throwing common sense out the window.

Yes I think proof of a proposition (or as close as possible to it) is to be preferred to hysteria and irrationality.

What you blithely describe as common sense (Thaksin controlling terrorist armies) would be seen by others as pure nonsense.I would say the same of the redshirt hotheads who have accused Abhisit of murder.

Any one in a red shirt agrees with you. No one else. You must feel lonely with just red shirts to support you.

[Crushdepth]

There's a BP article today about how PTP and Thaksin2 have already discounted nearly all their campaign promises, openly, to the press. Check it out. Didn't take them long to show everyone that they are true snakes in the grass! Bet they are really only here to keep one promise, and Thaskin1 will do anything and pay anything to make that happen!!!!

Show us the link!

I can't find it anywhere on BP site.

Or are you just making it up?

It's the feature story on the front page

[hammered]

Democracy also works by the rule of law. It's not clear as yet whether Yingluck is even going to be legally eligible to be a Thai PM in the first place.

The EC have concluded their look into both Yingluck and Abhisit and have decided they dont need to call either of them, so we should know fairly soon. With the case of Yingluck as soon as she is seated she becomes eligible. As she is clearly the favoured candidate fo the people it would then seem sensible for parliament to select her especially after the resounding defeat of the party of the last candidate parliament picked that wasnt exactly favoured by the people.

[whybother]

Democracy also works by the rule of law. It's not clear as yet whether Yingluck is even going to be legally eligible to be a Thai PM in the first place.

The EC have concluded their look into both Yingluck and Abhisit and have decided they dont need to call either of them, so we should know fairly soon. With the case of Yingluck as soon as she is seated she becomes eligible. As she is clearly the favoured candidate fo the people it would then seem sensible for parliament to select her especially after the resounding defeat of the party of the last candidate parliament picked that wasnt exactly favoured by the people.

With a 300 seat coalition, there would be little point in the opposition proposing a candidate (and I believe they said they won't).

And there would be little chance that the PTP or coalition propose anyone besides Yingluck. That would be the mother of all back flips.

[EvilDrSomkid]

If PTP backtracks on all its pledges then it will have to answer to the voters at the next election. That is how demcoracy works. One problem though is if the voters reject PTP at the next election, who will they turn to? They have already rejected the democrats repeatedly and the democrat establishment is despised and hated with a vengeance across great swathes of the land, and if there isnt a party they feel they can support then thing scould get very messy. You never ever want to have a system in which people think they have no stake and feel they have no way to express themselves.

Many people seem to forget the reds didnt create the feeling sof being downtrodden and used, those feelings were always there. What the reds did was to give a direction for the anger and frustration to come out. Now it is coming out it cant be stopped. It is better if the people have apoltical party that does what they want, but if PTP goes back on everything it is more likely a very red party will benefit and I doubt many on here who dislike Thaksin or many in the elite would want to see this eventuality. People should maybe not hoping that PTP goes back on all its pledges but hoping they keep people happy enough with the ones they do keep. The people aint turning to the Dems led by Abhisit to save them any time soon.

You are probably right in most you say, but who or what is this very red party you refer to? The communists?

In any case, if the PTP backtracks on most or all their campaign promises, it might very well lead to street protests again, although that is not as likely as if the EC decides to disqualify Yingluck and other central Red Shirt leaders.

That will probably cause problems.

Should the PTP go back on promises and just be as corrupt and inept as previous governments, then there is no hope at all. There are no other large parties now that can take the lead and turn this country around.

Going for the Dems: Country is screwed, as usual.

Going for the PTP: Country is probably screwed.

Any of the other smaller parties have no answers either.

What is frustrating is that it seems no voters in this country demand real improvement in education and stopping corruption.

[hammered]

You are really hung up on proof aren't you. Why do you insist on ignoring the obvious and throwing common sense out the window.

Yes I think proof of a proposition (or as close as possible to it) is to be preferred to hysteria and irrationality.

What you blithely describe as common sense (Thaksin controlling terrorist armies) would be seen by others as pure nonsense.I would say the same of the redshirt hotheads who have accused Abhisit of murder.

Any one in a red shirt agrees with you. No one else. You must feel lonely with just red shirts to support you.

I aint no red shirt (check my history of posts over the years if you dont believe me) and I tend to agree with most stuff Jayboy writes. He is a snesible poster who in my opinion isnt a fanboy of any particular colour

AS far as I see things the dudes in power called a let people decide election hoping people would lance the boil of Thaksin. The people resoundingly elected PTP and thats good enough for me. Let PTP run the country hopefully with Yingluck at the helm as during the election it was made totally clear she was PM candidate of the party. The people have decided they want PTP to oversee governing the country and due to the let the people decide nature of the election to also oversee reconcilliation on their terms and not the other lots. It is democracy. It isnt about whether you like red or yellow or Thaksin or Abhisit. Now its time to move on with PTP policies and ministers.

[Thaddeus]

There's a BP article today about how PTP and Thaksin2 have already discounted nearly all their campaign promises, openly, to the press. Check it out. Didn't take them long to show everyone that they are true snakes in the grass! Bet they are really only here to keep one promise, and Thaskin1 will do anything and pay anything to make that happen!!!!

My wife read the article and asked the red shirt leader in her village about the backflipping. His response was that Yingluck had said all those things wouldn't happen - BEFORE the election!

Really, that's interesting. Why wasn't that little piece of info not filtered down to your wife?

(Rhetorical question obviously)

[hammered]

If PTP backtracks on all its pledges then it will have to answer to the voters at the next election. That is how demcoracy works. One problem though is if the voters reject PTP at the next election, who will they turn to? They have already rejected the democrats repeatedly and the democrat establishment is despised and hated with a vengeance across great swathes of the land, and if there isnt a party they feel they can support then thing scould get very messy. You never ever want to have a system in which people think they have no stake and feel they have no way to express themselves.

Many people seem to forget the reds didnt create the feeling sof being downtrodden and used, those feelings were always there. What the reds did was to give a direction for the anger and frustration to come out. Now it is coming out it cant be stopped. It is better if the people have apoltical party that does what they want, but if PTP goes back on everything it is more likely a very red party will benefit and I doubt many on here who dislike Thaksin or many in the elite would want to see this eventuality. People should maybe not hoping that PTP goes back on all its pledges but hoping they keep people happy enough with the ones they do keep. The people aint turning to the Dems led by Abhisit to save them any time soon.

You are probably right in most you say, but who or what is this very red party you refer to? The communists?

In any case, if the PTP backtracks on most or all their campaign promises, it might very well lead to street protests again, although that is not as likely as if the EC decides to disqualify Yingluck and other central Red Shirt leaders.

That will probably cause problems.

Should the PTP go back on promises and just be as corrupt and inept as previous governments, then there is no hope at all. There are no other large parties now that can take the lead and turn this country around.

Going for the Dems: Country is screwed, as usual.

Going for the PTP: Country is probably screwed.

Any of the other smaller parties have no answers either.

What is frustrating is that it seems no voters in this country demand real improvement in education and stopping corruption.

The very red party is one that doesnt exist right now. I just hypothesise that the reds may form one if PTP reneges and the poor lose faith in them. In reality I expect the PTP to keep their supporters happy enough and the reds on board as PTP arent stupid. This is also probably the best option for those who want to seeThailand retain stability, develop and for the poor to get a better deal without some chaos. I dont think the democrats are going to be elected for ages and certainly not under Abhisit.

Edited to add: I think you are right about chaos if Yingluck and all the red leaders are red carded. With the way decisions have always gone against PTP/PPP/TRT in the past and always gone for their opponents the stage is set for something nasty if that happens on vague evidence

Edited July 15, 2011 by hammered

[rubl]

Who are the Election Commission and are they totally above board, independent , and untainted by any skeletons in the closet?

The Election Commission notwithstanding its origins has an important job to do.If it did not exist its functions would need to be performed by another body. I think therefore notwithstanding any reservations about its cautious approach it should be given the benefit of the doubt.At the same time most non partisan observers will recognise the danger of the EC perhaps involuntarily being enlisted in the battle between the unelected elites and the Thai people as whole.It's too early in my view to draw any conclusions on this front though clearly this needs to be monitored.The EC must do its job with care and urgency.But it must also bear in mind its whole reason for existence is to reflect the fairly expressed will of the people, not to kowtow to the forces wholly hostile to the Thai peoples democratic wishes.

The only objection I have on this post is the inclusion of 'unelected elites and the Thai people'. The post is much less objective with it. Far better, IMHO, would be 'bureaucracy, various elite groups and the common people'

[rubl]

Basically, it's saying PTP is backtracking on:

- Promise: scrap the oil fund - Now: no plan to scrap the oil fund.

- Promise: build a dam and reclaim land - Now: "we didn't announce that we will do the projects, just that we will conduct studies"

- Promise: minimum wage of 300 baht nationwide immediately - Now: "you have to understand it was a campaign speech". Bangkok now. Other provinces within one year. They are also saying that not all provinces will get 300 baht.

- Promise: Rice mortgage scheme. 15,000 baht for regular paddy. 20,000 baht for hom mali. Now - only farmers with the credit card issued by the government will take part.

You mean we can't even trust what k. Thaksin said about policies and activities? What happened with 'Thaksin thinks, Pheu Thai acts'?

"Posted 2011-07-11 11:17:19

Thaksin unveils 3 megaprojects-land reclamation along Bangpakong and Tajean rivers, high-speed train, new water source construction /TAN_Network"

[noahvail]

There's a BP article today about how PTP and Thaksin2 have already discounted nearly all their campaign promises, openly, to the press. Check it out. Didn't take them long to show everyone that they are true snakes in the grass! Bet they are really only here to keep one promise, and Thaskin1 will do anything and pay anything to make that happen!!!!

My wife read the article and asked the red shirt leader in her village about the backflipping. His response was that Yingluck had said all those things wouldn't happen - BEFORE the election!

Really, that's interesting. Why wasn't that little piece of info not filtered down to your wife?

(Rhetorical question obviously)

Obviously But, with different words, that's what she asked - where and when did Yingluck say that? The guy walked away.

What's dismaying is that the other folks around her said that it must be true, the red shirt leader told them so! Sigh...

At least here on TV we can give and request links as proof of what we say - one on one, it's hard to do.

[musiclover]

You are really hung up on proof aren't you. Why do you insist on ignoring the obvious and throwing common sense out the window.

Yes I think proof of a proposition (or as close as possible to it) is to be preferred to hysteria and irrationality.

What you blithely describe as common sense (Thaksin controlling terrorist armies) would be seen by others as pure nonsense.I would say the same of the redshirt hotheads who have accused Abhisit of murder.

Any one in a red shirt agrees with you. No one else. You must feel lonely with just red shirts to support you.

No I can assure you that many( non red shirts) agree with him that much of what you post is mostly vague supposition and personal opinion, and the rest is arrant nonsense!

[lannarebirth]

Democracy also works by the rule of law. It's not clear as yet whether Yingluck is even going to be legally eligible to be a Thai PM in the first place.

You could also say that it cannot work without it.

[lannarebirth]

Democracy also works by the rule of law. It's not clear as yet whether Yingluck is even going to be legally eligible to be a Thai PM in the first place.

The EC have concluded their look into both Yingluck and Abhisit and have decided they dont need to call either of them, so we should know fairly soon. With the case of Yingluck as soon as she is seated she becomes eligible. As she is clearly the favoured candidate fo the people it would then seem sensible for parliament to select her especially after the resounding defeat of the party of the last candidate parliament picked that wasnt exactly favoured by the people.

A lot of governments win democratic elections with 99% of the people's vote. No check, no balance.

[lannarebirth]

The very red party is one that doesnt exist right now. I just hypothesise that the reds may form one if PTP reneges and the poor lose faith in them. In reality I expect the PTP to keep their supporters happy enough and the reds on board as PTP arent stupid. This is also probably the best option for those who want to seeThailand retain stability, develop and for the poor to get a better deal without some chaos. I dont think the democrats are going to be elected for ages and certainly not under Abhisit.

I think this is the thing no one ever thinks about, but if they know anything about China they probably should. Communism isn't old style communism anymore, ie: it is now policy communistic, market capitalistic. Communism now is merely a competive advantage in the global marketplace. People at the top of the political food chain and their cronies are making obscene wealth from it. people at the bottom, well...

http://www.chinahush...ution-in-china/

Edited July 15, 2011 by lannarebirth

[hammered]

A lot of PTP spokespeople have been stressing today 300 baht within a year countrywide. Everyone knows the policy, so they really have to deliver. The question is implementing it in a way that doesnt lose them their voters. Interesting