Many Thais Say Corruption Is Acceptable If Country Prospers, Poll Finds

[GM1955]

I wonder how many Farang with such high morals complain bitterly when offered the chance to pay 200 baht to the Traffic policeman for speeding instead of going to the Police Station and paying the real fine ?

How many Farang with such high morals would pay a litlle bit extra to make a successful Visa application when in fact they didn't legally qualify ?

How many Farangs would be willing to pay that little bit extra to get a Thai Driving License that day when in fact they failed the written test ?

I wonder how many Farangs with such a high moral code Drink and Drive in Thailand hoping that if they get stopped they can pay the police on the spot and drive off home ?

[dhrobertson]

Unfortunately, for expats living here, the future does not look good.

I've been hearing similar for the last 20 years, yet most Farangs I know who have left Thailand left because they were broke and had no choice.

Given the choice they would probably have stayed here, just like I do, and just like you do.

Not nececelery!

Friends of mine have left so their kids can get a decent education in UK or Malaysia. General consensus is that international schools are poor AND expensive.

Money isn't everything. I'm doing very comfortably thank you but I am considering moving on. Life's a balance. These days Phuket doesn't feel so good.....

[dhrobertson]

I wonder how many Farang with such high morals complain bitterly when offered the chance to pay 200 baht to the Traffic policeman for speeding instead of going to the Police Station and paying the real fine ?

How many Farang with such high morals would pay a litlle bit extra to make a successful Visa application when in fact they didn't legally qualify ?

How many Farangs would be willing to pay that little bit extra to get a Thai Driving License that day when in fact they failed the written test ?

I wonder how many Farangs with such a high moral code Drink and Drive in Thailand hoping that if they get stopped they can pay the police on the spot and drive off home ?

I, for one, NEVER pay the police. I always go the station if stopped for some piffling offence.

Are you one of these people who encourage police corruption.

By the way, if you can not pass the driving test, do us all a favour and take the bus

[GM1955]

Unfortunately, for expats living here, the future does not look good.

I've been hearing similar for the last 20 years, yet most Farangs I know who have left Thailand left because they were broke and had no choice.

Given the choice they would probably have stayed here, just like I do, and just like you do.

Not nececelery!

Friends of mine have left so their kids can get a decent education in UK or Malaysia. General consensus is that international schools are poor AND expensive.

Money isn't everything. I'm doing very comfortably thank you but I am considering moving on. Life's a balance. These days Phuket doesn't feel so good.....

Of course, everyone's situation is different, I wasn't writing about you personally was I ?

I stand by what I say, most of the people I know who left Thailand, left because they were skint, not because they wanted to.

[GM1955]

I, for one, NEVER pay the police. I always go the station if stopped for some piffling offence.

I would expect no less from a member of an anonymous Internet forum.

[bangkockney]

Agreed waiting for VAT invoices is annoying. If it was made compulsory, life would be much more frustrating. No more choice.

If saying 3 words to a taxi driver in Thai to get a receipt is so AGGRAVATING, I'd love to know how much it takes to send you over the edge completely.

What is this? Pedant's corner?

It is a PAIN IN THE ARSE having to ask for and wait for a VAT receipt. Good for all Thais if all VAT registered businesses have to issue VAT receipt automatically.

It is an AGGRAVATION to have to ask taxi drivers in Thai to get a receipt at the toll booths.

AND it pisses me off to have to ask for a receipt after paying a four figure sum for parking at Phuket airport.

[Cobalt60]

Corruption keeps the poor in their place, if you cant afford to buy a job or a contract then you get no work and stay poor.

[robertson468]

thailand is supposed to be a buddish country, only on paper, look at the morals (sex capital of the world), corruption, the countless murders written of as suicides...

but hey farangs, who gives a s**t anyway... are you suffering with your 60.000+ pensions per month + tenthousands of baht of intrest from the bank as most TV members here seem to be millionaires and not only in baht apparently

I echo your sentiment, albeit crudely put. If you are earning 6,000 baht per month or less, of course you are very happy to receive an additional income and you are not going to look too closely at how it is achieved. So, it is all very well for those sanctomonious members of TV to denigrate the Thais and the culture of corruption that is rife throughout the Country. And before anyone gets on their bandwagon, I know many of those in senior appointments are also on the take. There are a variety of reasons why so many accept it as part of life. Very few realise just how much damage this corruption does to the Country, both because of the views of so called developed Countries who may be considering investing in Thailand and the vast sums that should be going into the Government coffers, but are redirected to the corrupt individuals pockets. We are talking of BILLIONS of bahts here. Educating the masses in a competent and enlightening way is without doubt a wonderful thing, but unless the masses rise above the poverty line, I believe corruption will persist. They are living a philosophy of "have I sufficient for today, tomorrow is tomorrow's problem". I also doubt that many Thai Workers can see how society works considerably above their own pay scale, which to them is a completely different and foreign World and in so far as they are concerned, does not impact on their lives. If Mr CEO or MP is illegally taking millions of baht for his/her own benefit, how does this affect me? Am I going to get a pay rise if they don't steal the money? Many cannot see the impact it has on the macro economy, nor do they understand it. I would suggest that some of your readers take their blinkers off and look around the World. Thailand is by no means unique in having a high level of corruption and if you want to see corruption personified, I suggest you take a trip to Nigeria and some of the other African Countries. Under no circumstance do I condone corruption, but it is unfortunately one of the many weaknesses of human nature, particularly where there is poverty and at the other end of the spectrum, powerful "untouchable" people. Let's face it, it was not that long ago that the powerful "untouchable" MPs of the UK were caught with their fingers in the till - kettle and pot springs to mind! I also fail to see how corruption in Thailand can be laid at the foot of Buddhism, which incidentally is a teaching, not a religion. Buddhism is a far more embracing and forgiving way, as opposed to the unforgiving and stringent ways of the Christian, Moslem or Jewish religions. Go read the books of the latter and you will quickly understand what I mean - you are either one of us, or you are an outcaste - charming! As for the conduct of children, ask any teacher teaching here if they would rather have the children here to teach, or the children in UK, USA etc. Children here are far better behaved, respectful of their elders and those in authority. On balance, i personally much prefer Thailand to the UK. But appreciate others have their own views and priorities and if they bring more minuses than pluses for Thailand, then you should leave this lovely Country and People.

[SAffer]

thailand is supposed to be a buddish country, only on paper, look at the morals (sex capital of the world), corruption, the countless murders written of as suicides...

but hey farangs, who gives a s**t anyway... are you suffering with your 60.000+ pensions per month + tenthousands of baht of intrest from the bank as most TV members here seem to be millionaires and not only in baht apparently

I echo your sentiment, albeit crudely put. If you are earning 6,000 baht per month or less, of course you are very happy to receive an additional income and you are not going to look too closely at how it is achieved. So, it is all very well for those sanctomonious members of TV to denigrate the Thais and the culture of corruption that is rife throughout the Country. And before anyone gets on their bandwagon, I know many of those in senior appointments are also on the take. There are a variety of reasons why so many accept it as part of life. Very few realise just how much damage this corruption does to the Country, both because of the views of so called developed Countries who may be considering investing in Thailand and the vast sums that should be going into the Government coffers, but are redirected to the corrupt individuals pockets. We are talking of BILLIONS of bahts here. Educating the masses in a competent and enlightening way is without doubt a wonderful thing, but unless the masses rise above the poverty line, I believe corruption will persist. They are living a philosophy of "have I sufficient for today, tomorrow is tomorrow's problem". I also doubt that many Thai Workers can see how society works considerably above their own pay scale, which to them is a completely different and foreign World and in so far as they are concerned, does not impact on their lives. If Mr CEO or MP is illegally taking millions of baht for his/her own benefit, how does this affect me? Am I going to get a pay rise if they don't steal the money? Many cannot see the impact it has on the macro economy, nor do they understand it. I would suggest that some of your readers take their blinkers off and look around the World. Thailand is by no means unique in having a high level of corruption and if you want to see corruption personified, I suggest you take a trip to Nigeria and some of the other African Countries. Under no circumstance do I condone corruption, but it is unfortunately one of the many weaknesses of human nature, particularly where there is poverty and at the other end of the spectrum, powerful "untouchable" people. Let's face it, it was not that long ago that the powerful "untouchable" MPs of the UK were caught with their fingers in the till - kettle and pot springs to mind! I also fail to see how corruption in Thailand can be laid at the foot of Buddhism, which incidentally is a teaching, not a religion. Buddhism is a far more embracing and forgiving way, as opposed to the unforgiving and stringent ways of the Christian, Moslem or Jewish religions. Go read the books of the latter and you will quickly understand what I mean - you are either one of us, or you are an outcaste - charming! As for the conduct of children, ask any teacher teaching here if they would rather have the children here to teach, or the children in UK, USA etc. Children here are far better behaved, respectful of their elders and those in authority. On balance, i personally much prefer Thailand to the UK. But appreciate others have their own views and priorities and if they bring more minuses than pluses for Thailand, then you should leave this lovely Country and People.

It would be great if you would break things down into paragraphs, I fear many people will not read what you wrote in the current format.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Are some people really that short sighted? The reason most people can't prosper 'is' because of corruption! Do these people who think corruption is okay have dreams of becoming rich themselves one day? Do they think the only way to become rich is to be corrupt? Therefore, you may as well allow it because it might come in handy in the future.

A lot of the rich Thais are so rich it's vulgar. I'd personally like to Robin Hood the lot of 'em.

In an answer to your first question that is a resounding yes!!!! Of course it's OK as long as you are doing the getting and not the giving - sad but true!!

[SICHONSTEVE]

Corruption in the west is as high as it is anywhere, it is just played at a different level, Offer a police officer $50 or 100 pounds GBP and you're likely to get arrested and go to jail, But if you're a big drug dealer and pass across 1m then they take it and your off the hook, (if they can)

Same in business in the West, at the top of the ladder it goes on at the bottom it does not, simply because the stakes are not high enough, could be called greed, Now there is a good religious teaching, never be corrupt unless the stakes are high enough. Who was it that said "A rich man can never enter the Kingdom of Heaven" I forget (facetious)

You would probably go to jail (but not collect 200 pounds) if it was a force other than the Metropolitan police!!!!!

[djlest]

The root of the problem is that Buddhism has not managed to inculcate an underlying morality; this, I think, is true of religions/philosophies in most Asian countries, China and Japan being the honourable exceptions.

Interesting point you made about Christians being more morally pure than Buddhists...

However there have been more wars and death and destruction caused by christian religions than buddhist ones...

So whilst they may be more lax in their morals here - They are light years ahead of us when it comes to acceptance and peace.

As for us being more moral in our ways because of our Christian heritage... there may be some truth in that our morals have developed from certain commandments...

But i can assure you the majority of problems are because of a lack of education.

Japan and even India might arguably have more morality than Thais - But they are also better educated...

I think it is education that is to blame

One only has to stroll around the council estates of the UK to see that the cancer of society, the violence, the aggression, the greed is all due to a severe deficit of Eduction... And very little to do with whos god is best..

And as for this comment:

Corruption keeps the poor in their place, if you cant afford to buy a job or a contract then you get no work and stay poor.

I don't belive Corruption keeps the poor people in their place!!!

A lack of education is what keeps them in their place...because they have no means to escape...

And it is their small minds that actually blame it on corruption keeping them down...when it is actually themselves -

Sorry to sound harsh...but there are plenty of poor people in this world who managed to drag themselves out of the ghetto and be someone regardless of corruption, its a choice and blaming it on society, the police or the Gov is just an excuse for the lazy and uneducated.

When i see the police stopping the poor motocycle riders and asking them for bribes, and they let all the rich cars go by and just target the poor. Yes it upsets me somewhat...

But then ask yourself this...

Are they legal? Do they have Insurance? Are they a danger on the roads?

In any western country, driving without insurance, helmets, tax etc... and you would shout at the top of your voices 'criminals - hang them high'

So Right and Wrong - Morality - Laws - Corruption and comparrason...

This is Thailand... A place where forward thinking doesn't work - and neither does thinking - period!

Edited July 21, 2011 by djlest

[OzMick]

It amazes me that Thais cannot grasp the concept that if a politician is handing out ten times what he is likely to earn in his term of office as vote-buying bribes, then he undoubtedly intends to steal more when elected.

In discussing the morality of Thais, please take into account your own sexual hang-ups inculcated by your Judeo-Christian upbringing, much as you may deny having any. Sexual morality is vastly different here than in the west, but the differences may or not be as large in other morality matters.

[dhrobertson]

I, for one, NEVER pay the police. I always go the station if stopped for some piffling offence.

I would expect no less from a member of an anonymous Internet forum.

anonymous??

You have my name. Do you want me to publish my address?

[hawksway]

In other words, Society does not object to corruption as long as they get a cut!

[dhrobertson]

Agreed waiting for VAT invoices is annoying. If it was made compulsory, life would be much more frustrating. No more choice.

If saying 3 words to a taxi driver in Thai to get a receipt is so AGGRAVATING, I'd love to know how much it takes to send you over the edge completely.

What is this? Pedant's corner?

It is a PAIN IN THE ARSE having to ask for and wait for a VAT receipt. Good for all Thais if all VAT registered businesses have to issue VAT receipt automatically.

It is an AGGRAVATION to have to ask taxi drivers in Thai to get a receipt at the toll booths.

AND it pisses me off to have to ask for a receipt after paying a four figure sum for parking at Phuket airport.

Try shutting my favorite pubs tomorrow night

Seriously though, if all business had to automatically issue VAT recipts, think how this would increase the government's tax receipts.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Agreed waiting for VAT invoices is annoying. If it was made compulsory, life would be much more frustrating. No more choice.

If saying 3 words to a taxi driver in Thai to get a receipt is so AGGRAVATING, I'd love to know how much it takes to send you over the edge completely.

What is this? Pedant's corner?

It is a PAIN IN THE ARSE having to ask for and wait for a VAT receipt. Good for all Thais if all VAT registered businesses have to issue VAT receipt automatically.

It is an AGGRAVATION to have to ask taxi drivers in Thai to get a receipt at the toll booths.

AND it pisses me off to have to ask for a receipt after paying a four figure sum for parking at Phuket airport.

Try shutting my favorite pubs tomorrow night

Seriously though, if all business had to automatically issue VAT recipts, think how this would increase the government's tax receipts.

And boy do they need all the money they can get as they have all those promises to pay for!!!

[tingtongfarang]

I wonder how many Farang with such high morals complain bitterly when offered the chance to pay 200 baht to the Traffic policeman for speeding instead of going to the Police Station and paying the real fine ?

How many Farang with such high morals would pay a litlle bit extra to make a successful Visa application when in fact they didn't legally qualify ?

How many Farangs would be willing to pay that little bit extra to get a Thai Driving License that day when in fact they failed the written test ?

I wonder how many Farangs with such a high moral code Drink and Drive in Thailand hoping that if they get stopped they can pay the police on the spot and drive off home ?

I, for one, NEVER pay the police. I always go the station if stopped for some piffling offence.

Are you one of these people who encourage police corruption.

By the way, if you can not pass the driving test, do us all a favour and take the bus

Also have never paid the police and never will, Likewise i passed both written tests mcy & car same day and never paid,

I find mostly when the police realise your not about to hand a bribe over they just want you out the way.

[JohnAllan]

Hardly a surprise there. And Thailand will stay at the top-end - not something of which to be proud - of the corruption charts for some considerable time to come.

The problem they have yet to recognise is the likely action that other countries take, following the UK's introduction of a law that targets any British-based company, whose employees are proven to have paid bribes, irrespective of which country is involved.

[SAffer]

The point here is not that Thailand is corrupt. The point is that Thai people feel that it is OK to be corrupt, provided that they get some benefit from the corruption. Many countries are corrupt, my own included- but few cultures display the attitude of acceptance and selfishness of the Thais... this is the problem.

[sambai]

I have lived here for a little more than 5 years now. For me the rot set in about 2 years ago.Living in Phuket you get the all worst of Thailand all in one place. I just can no longer live in a country where corruption is the norm and not the exception. As a foreigner living i Thailand, I feel very much like a second class citizen, we no rights here. I understand a little bit of Thai now and it is quite shocking to overhear Thais talking about you in a derogatory manner when they think that you don't know the lingo. LOS my ass. What do you show when you smile? YOUR TEETH! I will not renew my contract here in the next couple of months. I've had enough! There is more to life than making money, which seems to be the number on priority here, regardless of how it's done.

I'm always sorry to read something like this because moving away is a life-changing decision and things must be quite untenable to cause someone to have a change of heart. I also have been here for a similar amount of time as you have. I have certainly had ups and downs. For me, I think the Thais are very different to people from my own culture and perhaps not all Westerners can accept them, the way they are. I think it's better to stay away from tourist areas. I do not think they are all bad.

Although I should say that on a recent visit to Phuket, I did get rather fed up on arrival at the airport and waiting for a taxi. It is full of scams. Then on the way to the hotel, the police stopped our van for bribe money. It was depressing and I got the impression that Phuket is not like other parts of Thailand.

I wish you luck, pmg.

[SICHONSTEVE]

The point here is not that Thailand is corrupt. The point is that Thai people feel that it is OK to be corrupt, provided that they get some benefit from the corruption. Many countries are corrupt, my own included- but few cultures display the attitude of acceptance and selfishness of the Thais... this is the problem.

Don't forget that for every payment gained someone is out of pocket by the same amount so the tam ruat asking for some tea/coffee money because you were going 2 km/hour too fast doesn't benefit the victim!! The police in Thailand must be copying those cops in American films who never seem to be without either a gun or cup of coffee in their hands. Either that or they down coffee like we down beer in England except our glasses are bigger!!!

[SAffer]

The point here is not that Thailand is corrupt. The point is that Thai people feel that it is OK to be corrupt, provided that they get some benefit from the corruption. Many countries are corrupt, my own included- but few cultures display the attitude of acceptance and selfishness of the Thais... this is the problem.

Don't forget that for every payment gained someone is out of pocket by the same amount so the tam ruat asking for some tea/coffee money because you were going 2 km/hour too fast doesn't benefit the victim!! The police in Thailand must be copying those cops in American films who never seem to be without either a gun or cup of coffee in their hands. Either that or they down coffee like we down beer in England except our glasses are bigger!!!

I doubt that they are actually thinking about the little bribes that drivers pay the cops. The corruption that most Thais are probably thinking about in which they might gain some benefit is on a much higher level.

[unanimosity]

The plain and simple truth is that what is blandly blanketed with the vague term corruption is in fact extortion which is why first world citizens find it illegal and deplorable.

[midas]

Kind of says it all about Thailand doesn't it. That a political party with a fugitive ex leader wins a landslide. IMO this country is morally bankrupt.

lovely place to live and enjoy the amenities and sites but I'm so grateful that I never started a business here

which I would have done had the rules been more investor friendly

Edited July 21, 2011 by midas

[Crushdepth]

It's ok for robbers to empty the bank vault - if they leave more money behind than they take.

Stupid.

[SICHONSTEVE]

The point here is not that Thailand is corrupt. The point is that Thai people feel that it is OK to be corrupt, provided that they get some benefit from the corruption. Many countries are corrupt, my own included- but few cultures display the attitude of acceptance and selfishness of the Thais... this is the problem.

Don't forget that for every payment gained someone is out of pocket by the same amount so the tam ruat asking for some tea/coffee money because you were going 2 km/hour too fast doesn't benefit the victim!! The police in Thailand must be copying those cops in American films who never seem to be without either a gun or cup of coffee in their hands. Either that or they down coffee like we down beer in England except our glasses are bigger!!!

I doubt that they are actually thinking about the little bribes that drivers pay the cops. The corruption that most Thais are probably thinking about in which they might gain some benefit is on a much higher level.

I was purely using it as an example to illustrate a point!!

[metisdead]

An inflammatory post has been removed.

[letitbe]

It's the Thai mindset from birth to death....2 out 3 Thai's can't be wrong. Always remember, This Is Thailand.

come on in west everyone is as corrupt How many dont mind cheating on an insurance claim How many cheat if they can on their taxes and that just normal people. What about politicians bankers Lawyers overcharging and thats not even going into council in UK or city hall in USA taking money left and right to award contracts. In the west people are a lot more clever to hide it. i dont know a builder in UK who would not give you a large discount for cash or any small business in USA who dont filter away some cash. Here its just more open and you dont need to pay at land office or other place provided you want to wait a lot longer. Same with police if you want they will just give you the ticket and you go down to police station and pay the fine although a number make it clear it would be easier just to save yourself the bother and pay them direct. Ive been in business in USA and UK for 20 years or more and here for about 15 years and theirs no difference at all believe me. Most in the west never see it or know about it and you cana\ spend your whole life doing business in UK and USA without being aware its there but I assure you its as prevalent there as here. Even if its just fancy lunches corporate conventions in 5 star hotels and nice goody bags and thats just small scale stuff.

Grow up people and live in the real world.

[maidu]

The point here is not that Thailand is corrupt. The point is that Thai people feel that it is OK to be corrupt, provided that they get some benefit from the corruption. Many countries are corrupt, my own included- but few cultures display the attitude of acceptance and selfishness of the Thais... this is the problem.

Agreed. It's like how kids are influenced by their parents. If their parents act and accept corruption, then the kids will also. In Thailand, the elders accept and practice corruption. The poster boy for corruption is Mr. Thaksin. He didn't even try to hide it! Primarily him, but also thousands like him have indelibly influenced Thais, particularly younger impressionable Thais - showing that corruption is not only ok, it's desirable - because it can lead to added riches. And getting rich is the religion of Thais.

A deeper thinking people would realize that corruption to society is like rot to the supports of a wood floor. Thais think on the surface. They see a shiny floor, and that's all that matters.