A Tale Of Three Helicopter Disasters In Thailand

[metisdead]

Some posts with insensitive and derogatory comments towards Thais has been removed as well as the replies to that post. Off topic posts have been removed as well.

[InseeDaeng]

Bermuda triangle of Thailand.

R.I.P

[wintermute]

The National Park where the incidents happened is reportedly haunted.

The incompetence poltergeist strikes again!

[jayjayjayjay]

Sort of like a very bad version of the "Key Stone Cops"

[Dag]

Bermuda triangle of Thailand.

R.I.P

They have the Golden Triangle and now the Burmese Triangle...

Those rebel fighters on the Burmese side have itchy trigger fingers with 17yo kids attached to them.....and cheap rocket launchers.

[koosdeboer]

I am a retired helicopter pilot with 15000 hours on various civil and military helicopters over 40 years flying.

I have some comments [thoughts] from my experience of similar accidents.

1. First incident bad weather, maybe lost [over Burma], probably unqualified to fly on instruments alone, no radar.

Flight should not have been authorised by commanding officer, probably struck trees.

2. Second incident, General on board, opportunity for the Senior Pilot who spends most of his time driving a desk, to fly to get credit for promotion, [old saying in professional circles ''Never fly with the Boss'', too much pressure to get to the scene, aircraft may have been overloaded [press on board, max fuel etc,] similar problems with basic flying skills in poor weather, poor supervision and authorisation.

3. Third crash may well have been tail rotor failure in which case the pilot would shut down the engines to minimise torque reaction and attempt autorotation, probably too low or downwind.

That sounds logical.

But three times within nine days is a bit hard to chew.

The dutch navy lost two of their 24 lynx helicopters the same day on april 1 1982. Shit happens. I was one of the maintenance crew of the helicopter ditching at sea near Norfolk, the other helicopter went down near Texel in Holland. Pilot errors, both at night at sea.

I think peter pop is right with his analysis and people who don't know anything about helicopters should just keep out of this.

[witsawakorn]

3 crashes with multiple fatalities and all solved in record time and none blamed on pilot error. Since 80% or more of all air crashes are due to pilot error, we all know the truth will never be told here as usual. Pilot error would make General you know who look bad.

I don't think any of them have been " solved" yet have they? What do you know that nobody else knows? I would have thought that pilot error would be a preferred reason for some since none of the pilots survived there is nobody to contest the verdict. They have grounded the Huey fleet due to concerns about rotor fatigue based on the account of the only survivor. Of course any investigation is severely hampered bythe fact that like in many if not most countries Thai military aircraft don't have flight data or voice recorders installed. I think the US introduced them after Ron Brown and a plane full of top brass died in a USAF 737 that crashed near Dubrovnik in 1996

[housepainter]

Only 3??????????????

I'm surprised they can keep the numbers so low.

Imagine if the truth ever came out.

[lounger]

Are all three incidents linked.

According to the locals - yes.

The National Park where the incidents happened is reportedly haunted.

The first crash was flying into the mountain in bad weather.

The second cash going to collect the bodies of the poor victims of the first crash and then flying into the same mountain in bad weather.

The third crash was mechanical failure whilst on the way to collect the bodies of the victims from the second crash.

All three crashes were less than 50 kilometers apart.

Spooky.

(Details are from the Bangkok Post 25.7.11)

The original storey in the Bangkok Post quoted a local who said that the valley in question had difficult and dangerous wind patterns. That is not a quote but something similar. Sounds like the lake district UK. A dangerous area for sudden squalls down drafts etc

Surely the pilots etc knew of this. Or was the general causing disruption?

[overhaul38]

Truly sad to hear. Helicopters require much more maintenance and pilot skills than a fixed wing aircraft and I'm sure the investigation will focus on maintenance and pilot actions.

[ib1b4]

Only 3??????????????

I'm surprised they can keep the numbers so low.

Imagine if the truth ever came out.

Only 3???????? -No there is now a fourth. reported forced landing due to engine failure around Udon Thani , this managed to land safely.

[Gers1873]

I still think it had something to do with Myanmar. The crash was very close to Myanmar and all in the same area. I have never heard of 3 helicopters going down for no apparent reason. These helicopters are built to withstand alot including severe weather. One of my homes in Thailand is in the area where they went down and I was up there when this happened. The weather was not so bad as to cause a helicopter to go down and I have been on many of them. On Sunday when I heard another 1 went down and the weather was normal as far as I could see. I knew this was just to coincidental to be an accident.

My thoughts are that somebody shot these Birds down. We will probably never know the truth though...

I share your views. The government of Myanmar have reported carrying out 'military excercises' in the jungle excercises in the South of the country. One wuold hope that the Thai authorities are investigating.

[Gers1873]

Only 3??????????????

I'm surprised they can keep the numbers so low.

Imagine if the truth ever came out.

Why are you "surprised the numbers are so low", would you care to elaborate. Do you have access to information not generally available. On whhat premise do you base your comments?

Just curious.

Edited July 28, 2011 by Gers1873

[Dag]

Only 3??????????????

I'm surprised they can keep the numbers so low.

Imagine if the truth ever came out.

Why are you "surprised the numbers are so low", would you care to elaborate. Do you have access to information not generally available. On whhat premise do you base your comments?

Just curious.

Sure you know Gers.....dont be so coy.

[jfchandler]

Glad to hear the Thai military is planning to spend loads more dosh on buying new Black Hawk helicopters for the future, including now replacing the 1 BH and two other birds they've recently lost..

But does anyone else think they ought to at least learn to properly command, fly and maintain the ones they've got FIRST......

BTW, if the dual F16 crash episode earlier this year is any indicator, don't expect to ever publicly hear the results of the accident investigations....

[bitterbatter]

Bermuda triangle of Thailand.

R.I.P

Not exactly. Did you know that they have discovered why so many crashes happened in the Bermuda triangle?

Methane gases which often bubble up from the ocean floor can cause areas where the air is less dense and planes lose their lift.

I have heard a few Thai's mention that they thought is was some burmese shooting at the helicopters.

[Scout666]

''Never fly with the Boss'' ha ha ha if sanity is to prevail. Knowledgeable post. Thank you.

I am a retired helicopter pilot with 15000 hours on various civil and military helicopters over 40 years flying.

I have some comments [thoughts] from my experience of similar accidents.

1. First incident bad weather, maybe lost [over Burma], probably unqualified to fly on instruments alone, no radar.

Flight should not have been authorised by commanding officer, probably struck trees.

2. Second incident, General on board, opportunity for the Senior Pilot who spends most of his time driving a desk, to fly to get credit for promotion, [old saying in professional circles ''Never fly with the Boss'', too much pressure to get to the scene, aircraft may have been overloaded [press on board, max fuel etc,] similar problems with basic flying skills in poor weather, poor supervision and authorisation.

3. Third crash may well have been tail rotor failure in which case the pilot would shut down the engines to minimise torque reaction and attempt autorotation, probably too low or downwind.

Crash sites became a photo opportunity for irresponsible press and public, forensics therefore more difficult.

Little chance of a dispassionate enquiry, but I would be looking at the Command, control and training of senior officers. The Bell and Sikorsky Helicopters are time proven and have excellent safety records with basic maintenance.

I remember it was mentioned from the only survivor of the helicopter crash 3.

I think it was either BP or NMM that reported the interviewr.

In this text: one mechanic survived to recount the malfunction of the tail rotor.

That is really problem in bad weather conditions and poor area to land safely. I have encountered it once and I was in luck near by airfield.

Not easy to land with tailrotor problems, but there can be many different malfuntions in tailrotors also.(Jammed, loss of power, rotating speed and so on...)

I read another thing where he said ..."then suddenly the two engines stopped"

I wouldn't even know of two engines in a heli.

[phanangpete]

Let me tell you something about Thai pilots this week. A flight to Phuket a day or so ago encountered very bad weather on approach. The pilot took the decision not to land and returned to Bangkok. If I was his boss I'd give him a month's bonus for making a very brave and tough decision. It won't be too popular a decision with the airline as 30 - 40 tonnes of fuel will have been wasted but I'm sure they will recognise a very wise decision. I salute that man.

Well yes , a very good decision by the pilot, but this is after two crashes, one in Phuket and after at Samui,in the last two years, where both pilots decided to land , in bad conditions and with 'wind shear' factors on landing !!

[Sedona]

Only 3??????????????

I'm surprised they can keep the numbers so low.

Imagine if the truth ever came out.

I know the truth..........

The truth is that the same somebody has possibly "worked" on two of the three.......I can't believe it's only been a few either considering.

[housepainter]

Trust me.

It's a metaphor for Thailand.

An accident waiting to happen.

Next.

[housepainter]

I am a retired helicopter pilot with 15000 hours on various civil and military helicopters over 40 years flying.

I have some comments [thoughts] from my experience of similar accidents.

1. First incident bad weather, maybe lost [over Burma], probably unqualified to fly on instruments alone, no radar.

Flight should not have been authorised by commanding officer, probably struck trees.

2. Second incident, General on board, opportunity for the Senior Pilot who spends most of his time driving a desk, to fly to get credit for promotion, [old saying in professional circles ''Never fly with the Boss'', too much pressure to get to the scene, aircraft may have been overloaded [press on board, max fuel etc,] similar problems with basic flying skills in poor weather, poor supervision and authorisation.

3. Third crash may well have been tail rotor failure in which case the pilot would shut down the engines to minimise torque reaction and attempt autorotation, probably too low or downwind.

That sounds logical.

But three times within nine days is a bit hard to chew.

I am NOT a retired helicopter pilot with 15000 hours on various civil and military helicopters over 40 years flying.

I have some comments [thoughts] from my experience of similar accidents.

1 Blame it on the weather. Blame it on the cat. Blame it on anything, anyone other than me.

2 Ever heard of saving face?

3 Hadn't got a bloody clue accompanied by a voice yelling 'We're going downnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn'.

In Thai.

In Thailand.

What do you expect?

When they say ' Safety First' they forget to add ' out the window.'

Next.