Discussion At Immigration Today

[Eff1n2ret]

Even that august organ, the Daily Telegraph, appears to get confused about these matters - its listing of yesterday's F1 Grand Prix results shows:-

1. Jenson Button (GBR)

2. ---

3. ---

4. Lewis Hamilton (GBR)

5. ----

6. ---

7. Paul di Resta (SCO)

Hmm.

[kblaze]

seriously I just learned so much from this thread...

[StreetCowboy]

seriously I just learned so much from this thread...

It'll stand you in good stead for pub quizes the length and breadth of Britain

SC

[saraburioz]

So Mull and Skye are part of the British Isles but not Great Britain.??

I think I got it.

[tigermonkey]

OP. you were in an Immigration Office. That's where a legalistic view is taken of such matters as nationality, and your nationality is what it says in your passport - British - the same as all the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish presenting themselves for the same process (assuming the latter haven't exercised their right to present an Irish passport instead). It's fine to be proud of your heritage and identity, but no IO gives a flying fart about anything like that, and you're wasting your time trying to make such facile points to them.

When I worked on the desk at Heathrow I used to smile at the American tourists who, against the 'Nationality' line on the landing card would put their genealogy - wonderful concoctions like Irish/Jewish/Polish, and so on. And then there were the ones that used to put 'Caucasian', and would get horribly confused when you asked them "What's the weather like in Caucasia at the moment?"

Ah, but putting "American" could get confused with those folks from the northern cold counties, or even those from the southern locals. Better to just state "USA."

Reckon about everything north of Panama might be considered "American" by some people.

Mac

Only un-enlightened people would consider it that as only "Americans" from the USA are referred to as Americans all others are referred to by their country's national identity I.E. Brazil= Brazilians, Canada= Canadians, Mexico= Mexicans and so on...

"un-enlightened" ?? -- that word is a slap in the face to the rest of us who live in the rest of America , from Ellesmere Island to Ushuala. It is only the expansive ego of the USA that causes its people to be called Americans to the exclusion of all others who live in the Americas. Personally, I prefer the term Statians. The original term Columbians was equally confusing.

Are you by any chance from the USA ? -- or merely the product of years of Statian propaganda ?

Personally I am a British American - a citizen of Canada, where many are still proud to be British and are happy that the Queen is our head of state. However, I am prejudiced ( and perhaps prone to confusion) since I was born English.

[WarpSpeed]

OP. you were in an Immigration Office. That's where a legalistic view is taken of such matters as nationality, and your nationality is what it says in your passport - British - the same as all the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish presenting themselves for the same process (assuming the latter haven't exercised their right to present an Irish passport instead). It's fine to be proud of your heritage and identity, but no IO gives a flying fart about anything like that, and you're wasting your time trying to make such facile points to them.

When I worked on the desk at Heathrow I used to smile at the American tourists who, against the 'Nationality' line on the landing card would put their genealogy - wonderful concoctions like Irish/Jewish/Polish, and so on. And then there were the ones that used to put 'Caucasian', and would get horribly confused when you asked them "What's the weather like in Caucasia at the moment?"

Ah, but putting "American" could get confused with those folks from the northern cold counties, or even those from the southern locals. Better to just state "USA."

Reckon about everything north of Panama might be considered "American" by some people.

Mac

Only un-enlightened people would consider it that as only "Americans" from the USA are referred to as Americans all others are referred to by their country's national identity I.E. Brazil= Brazilians, Canada= Canadians, Mexico= Mexicans and so on...

"un-enlightened" ?? -- that word is a slap in the face to the rest of us who live in the rest of America , from Ellesmere Island to Ushuala. It is only the expansive ego of the USA that causes its people to be called Americans to the exclusion of all others who live in the Americas. Personally, I prefer the term Statians. The original term Columbians was equally confusing.

Are you by any chance from the USA ? -- or merely the product of years of Statian propaganda ?

Personally I am a British American - a citizen of Canada, where many are still proud to be British and are happy that the Queen is our head of state. However, I am prejudiced ( and perhaps prone to confusion) since I was born English.

Hmm I hear a lot of envy in your post little brother.....

Congratulations on being a Canuck then, end of...... Bottom line, no matter how much you wish to protest and stomp your feet in a childish tantrum ans would like to change the world to suit your definition of it, you're still referred to as Canadian and we, YES "WE" as in "Americans" from the US are the only "Americans" in the America's by official world wide title..

Edited August 1, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

while we're talking island . . . The Falklands! - as British as people who live in Land's End

complete with British passports

What about Bermuda? British Virgin Islands?

[endure]

while we're talking island . . . The Falklands! - as British as people who live in Land's End

complete with British passports

What about Bermuda? British Virgin Islands?

British Overseas Territory. From Wiki:

The British Overseas Territories are fourteen territories of the United Kingdom which, although they do not form part of the United Kingdom itself, fall under its jurisdiction.[1] They are remnants of the British Empire that have not acquired independence or have voted to remain British territories. The name "British Overseas Territory" was introduced by the British Overseas Territories Act 2002, and replaced the name British Dependent Territory, which was introduced by the British Nationality Act 1981. Before 1981, the territories were known as Crown colonies.

Apart from the British Antarctic Territory, which has no permanent inhabitants[citation needed], and the Sovereign Base Areas on Cyprus and the British Indian Ocean Territory, which are military bases, the overseas territories all have permanent populations. Collectively they encompass an approximate land area of 667,018 square miles (1,727,570 km2) and a population of approximately 260,000 people.[2][3] The British Antarctic Territory is part of a mutual recognition agreement with 4 other sovereign nations and their Antarctic territories. The UK is a participant in the Antarctic Treaty System.[4]

The territories of Jersey, and Guernsey, and the Isle of Man, though also under the sovereignty of the British Crown, have a different constitutional relationship with the United Kingdom, and are classed as Crown Dependencies.[5][6][7] The British Overseas Territories and Crown Dependencies are distinct from the Commonwealth of Nations, a voluntary association of countries which mostly have historic links to the British Empire.

[irishken]

Ken is that why you didn't bother to learn the English language? And I do not believe that most Northern Ireland ''residence'' (sic) are applying for Irish passports, in fact there were reports in the press recently that your mate McGuinness was advising all Irish people to apply for British passports. Unfortunately I did not read the full story.

hey rott

why is it then that a lot of the EU come to ireland to learn english. its a well know that irish speak better english than the english.

and by what are you implying your mate McGuinness. i've no connection to any of them scum. you have some neck saying things like that when you stem from a country that gives passports to the bombers who killed innocent people in the 7/7 bombings in london.

don't paint everyone with the same brush. i had the right to respond to the OP and others for suggesting that ireland was part of britan.

i have no problem at all with english.i have brothers and sister in law from england who i love. but when they travel they say they sometimes are ashamed to say were they are from because of some of the same things we have read in these posts. in fact i have shown them this topic as they sit beside me and they agree,

anyway what a provocative topic to post

Edited August 1, 2011 by irishken

[Mossfinn]

No wonder people are confused, this Province which is part of the UK, is also part of the Republic of Ireland, which is not part of the UK and when you consider that Ireland is part of the British Isles and not an integral part of Great Britain, crickey Good Luck in sorting that out.

The Republic may lay claim to Northern Ireland, but it is not part of the Republic. At the moment it is politically and legally part of the UK, and will hopefully remain so until and unless the majority of it's population wish otherwise.

Geographically, both NI and the RoI are parts of the island of Ireland; but that does not mean that NI is part of the RoI.

Great Britain is an island, not a political entity.

The island of Ireland and the island of Great Britain are geographically both part of the British Isles; as are the Isle of Man, the Inner and Outer Hebrides, the Orkneys, the Scilly Isles etc.

Edit:-

Just read eyebee's link, which explains it in more detail and much better than I.

Articles 2 & 3 of the Irish Constitution was changed by the 19th amendment, claims to the whole of the Island of Ireland were somewhat watered down.

My poiint which you hopefully missed on purpose, is that the Province of Ulster (in part)is both part of the Republic and of the Six Counties.

You mentioned N Ireland, I didn't, Norn Iron, is not the same as the Province (which I mentioned) of Ulster, and as for laying claim to any territory, look up article 19.

No Mossfinn he did not miss your point on purpose, I think your point was written in a (deliberately?) misleading manner, you have to read it very carefully not to read ''Ulster is part of the Republic.'' 7by7 was actually spot on.

And you talk for 7by7 do you?

you say 7by7 is spot on, but he claimed the Republic lays claim to N.I, I claim it does not. My post was written in a slightly humourous manner, I did not politisize it. And of course you have to read it carefully, that was the point, not to catch anybody out, but to emphasise the pecularity and difficulty of the thread.

Sorry you and others misunderstood it.

[Mossfinn]

And can I please make a suggestion, don't let a thread that is both informative and slightly controversial and definately entertaining being ruined by going down the route of poor judgement with contributary remarks of inflamitory nature.

[georgy]

The Thais understand very well the concept of nationality (sanchart) versus ethnicity (cheuachart).

The OP confuses the two.

He is "sanchart" British but "cheuachart" English.

Thai immigration couldn't care less what your "cheuachart" is...it's all about the passport you hold.

thats the best answer towards the 90days reporting at immigration.

it all depends what the threadstarter wants from immigration

1) just a stamp on a piece of paper

or

2) a discussion with IO, in that case I suggest you print out the whole thread to keep the officer fully informed

[Deeral]

what nonsense! - you are British - look on your passport.

Scottish, Welsh etc are subfolders - you seem very confused about your place in this world.

PS - St George was Greek

Edited August 2, 2011 by Deeral

[StreetCowboy]

what nonsense! - you are British - look on your passport.

Scottish, Welsh etc are subfolders - you seem very confused about your place in this world.

PS - St George was Greek

So's Phil the Greek, and he's the Duke of Edinburgh.

There's loads of people in this world are Johnny Foreigners, and we shouldn't necessarily hold it against them.

SC

[tigermonkey]

Ah, but putting "American" could get confused with those folks from the northern cold counties, or even those from the southern locals. Better to just state "USA."

Reckon about everything north of Panama might be considered "American" by some people.

Mac

Only un-enlightened people would consider it that as only "Americans" from the USA are referred to as Americans all others are referred to by their country's national identity I.E. Brazil= Brazilians, Canada= Canadians, Mexico= Mexicans and so on...

"un-enlightened" ?? -- that word is a slap in the face to the rest of us who live in the rest of America , from Ellesmere Island to Ushuala. It is only the expansive ego of the USA that causes its people to be called Americans to the exclusion of all others who live in the Americas. Personally, I prefer the term Statians. The original term Columbians was equally confusing.

Are you by any chance from the USA ? -- or merely the product of years of Statian propaganda ?

Personally I am a British American - a citizen of Canada, where many are still proud to be British and are happy that the Queen is our head of state. However, I am prejudiced ( and perhaps prone to confusion) since I was born English.

Hmm I hear a lot of envy in your post little brother.....

Congratulations on being a Canuck then, end of...... Bottom line, no matter how much you wish to protest and stomp your feet in a childish tantrum ans would like to change the world to suit your definition of it, you're still referred to as Canadian and we, YES "WE" as in "Americans" from the US are the only "Americans" in the America's by official world wide title..

I accept your congratulations on becoming a "Canuck" -- I did that in 1995 and decided to forego my United Staes citizenship at that time ( born in England and grew up in VIrginia). There is absolutely no "envy" on my part !

"official world title " -- WOW !! -- very impressive, but can I ask who issued this title? I will grant you that the term "American" is most freqeuntly used for Statians in the English language ( and its many dialects), but this is not so in other languages, and the majority of the world speak other languages.

Just an aside. I was an expat for a while in China, and the English speaking expats there usually refer to those from the United States as "USians" - strange.

[phutoie2]

what nonsense! - you are British - look on your passport.

Scottish, Welsh etc are subfolders - you seem very confused about your place in this world.

PS - St George was Greek

So's Phil the Greek, and he's the Duke of Edinburgh.

There's loads of people in this world are Johnny Foreigners, and we shouldn't necessarily hold it against them.

SC

Ditto, and remember what Maggie Thatcher said "Foreigners begin at Calais"

or was it Jim Davidson??

[7by7]

you have some neck saying things like that when you stem from a country that gives passports to the bombers who killed innocent people in the 7/7 bombings in london.

They weren't 'given' passports; they were British citizens. Three of them were born in England, the fourth had lived in England since moving from Jamaica at the age of five.

You stem from a country which produced those responsible for many terrorist atrocities, cowards who targeted innocent children and claimed to be heroes; whom you rightly call scum. Just as I, and all Brits with an ounce of intelligence, don't paint all Irish people with the same brush, please don't paint all British Muslims the same as those responsible for the atrocity of July 7th 2005.

The vast majority of British Muslims, whether born in the UK or immigrated, are as innocent of any terrorism or support of terrorism as the vast majority of Irish people.

PS - St George was Greek

Actually, he was a Roman soldier born in what is now Syria and stationed in what is now Turkey when he was executed for refusing to renounce his Christian faith (source).

[Moonrakers]

what nonsense! - you are British - look on your passport.

Scottish, Welsh etc are subfolders - you seem very confused about your place in this world.

PS - St George was Greek

St George, if he existed, was Roman.

[endure]

what nonsense! - you are British - look on your passport.

Scottish, Welsh etc are subfolders - you seem very confused about your place in this world.

PS - St George was Greek

St George was the son of a Roman Christian family and was probably born near what is now the Israeli city of Lod. His tomb is in the Church of St George.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Saint_George,_Lod

[irishken]

qouteThey weren't 'given' passports; they were British citizens. Three of them were born in England, the fourth had lived in England since moving from Jamaica at the age of five.

You stem from a country which produced those responsible for many terrorist atrocities, cowards who targeted innocent children and claimed to be heroes; whom you rightly call scum. Just as I, and all Brits with an ounce of intelligence, don't paint all Irish people with the same brush, please don't paint all British Muslims the same as those responsible for the atrocity of July 7th 2005.

The vast majority of British Muslims, whether born in the UK or immigrated, are as innocent of any terrorism or support of terrorism as the vast majority of Irish people.

qoute

correct. i don't paint british muslims or any muslims around the world with the same brush.

while i am not muslim i have seen enough programs on tv that says the koran does not encourage war on peaceful human beings. ive been to muslim countries like malaysia and indonesia and find them amazing people.

i was only replying to the fact that he said my mate mcguiness which implied that maybe we must all have the same thoughts as the 0.05% of people in ireland which is my right to defend myself as there have been some intended provocative things said about ireland. to be honest having a united ireland would be nice but i would worry about what i am going to have for breakfast more than a united ireland and just want to live in peace.

i think this thread has got a bit out of hand from the intended point it was created for

Edited August 2, 2011 by irishken

[swisstouristpattaya]

I would write "Roastbeef"on your arrival card if I was a thai immigration officer...

Edited August 2, 2011 by swisstouristpattaya

[BuffaloRescue]

IF you are so proud to be British/English why not stay there? Personally I cant stand the place and get nose-bleeds when i return.

[StreetCowboy]

On the topic of being British, a story from when some of you were young:

"In 1951 his form got him an international call-up for Great Britain against New Zealand.

The Daily Herald produced the now scarcely believable headline "Hunslet's darkie one of Britain's heroes".

From: 'Unparalleled' story of black rugby star Cec Thompson

"Theodore Cecil Thompson was born in 1926 in County Durham, where his mother came from. His Trinidadian father was working in Leeds but died before his son was born. He went on to serve with the Royal Navy during World War II.He was working in Leeds after the war when he tried rugby league for the first time with a works team. Within just a few games he had signed as a professional for Hunslet, his local team."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-14252055

SC

[endure]

what nonsense! - you are British - look on your passport.

Scottish, Welsh etc are subfolders - you seem very confused about your place in this world.

PS - St George was Greek

St George was the son of a Roman Christian family and was probably born near what is now the Israeli city of Lod. His tomb is in the Church of St George.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_Saint_George,_Lod

Just think - if St George had been born today he'd be Israeli - that's be a poke in the eye for Nick Griffin

[Eff1n2ret]

On the topic of being British, a story from when some of you were young:

"In 1951 his form got him an international call-up for Great Britain against New Zealand.

The Daily Herald produced the now scarcely believable headline "Hunslet's darkie one of Britain's heroes".

From: 'Unparalleled' story of black rugby star Cec Thompson

"Theodore Cecil Thompson was born in 1926 in County Durham, where his mother came from. His Trinidadian father was working in Leeds but died before his son was born. He went on to serve with the Royal Navy during World War II.He was working in Leeds after the war when he tried rugby league for the first time with a works team. Within just a few games he had signed as a professional for Hunslet, his local team."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-14252055

SC

- and those of a venerable vintage will recall the ITV programme 'The Comedians', one of whose foremost stars was Charlie Williams, who mined a rich vein of humour about his colour and his West Indian origins, all in a thick Barnsley accent.

Edit:- come to think of it he didn't appear to have a problem with Bernard Manning, who was pretty unashamedly racist (but often quite funny with it).

Edited August 2, 2011 by Eff1n2ret

[WarpSpeed]

"un-enlightened" ?? -- that word is a slap in the face to the rest of us who live in the rest of America , from Ellesmere Island to Ushuala. It is only the expansive ego of the USA that causes its people to be called Americans to the exclusion of all others who live in the Americas. Personally, I prefer the term Statians. The original term Columbians was equally confusing.

Are you by any chance from the USA ? -- or merely the product of years of Statian propaganda ?

Personally I am a British American - a citizen of Canada, where many are still proud to be British and are happy that the Queen is our head of state. However, I am prejudiced ( and perhaps prone to confusion) since I was born English.

Hmm I hear a lot of envy in your post little brother.....

Congratulations on being a Canuck then, end of...... Bottom line, no matter how much you wish to protest and stomp your feet in a childish tantrum ans would like to change the world to suit your definition of it, you're still referred to as Canadian and we, YES "WE" as in "Americans" from the US are the only "Americans" in the America's by official world wide title..

I accept your congratulations on becoming a "Canuck" -- I did that in 1995 and decided to forego my United Staes citizenship at that time ( born in England and grew up in VIrginia). There is absolutely no "envy" on my part !

"official world title " -- WOW !! -- very impressive, but can I ask who issued this title? I will grant you that the term "American" is most freqeuntly used for Statians in the English language ( and its many dialects), but this is not so in other languages, and the majority of the world speak other languages.

Just an aside. I was an expat for a while in China, and the English speaking expats there usually refer to those from the United States as "USians" - strange.

Ummm I didn't say "official world title" I said "official world wide 'title' " and in the context of an entire sentence. Pedantic I know but it is a significant difference in meaning due to wording so please, if you're going to quote me in the future do so responsibly and accurately and avoid inaccurate paraphrasing..

You're very bitter for a former "American" it most definitely comes off as someone who has a deep seated grudge and envy, maybe it's generational? What happened, your welfare was cut off or something?? You sound like one of those "Americans" we're all too happy to see leave and that's fine, not everyone is cut out to be an "American" we're cut from special cloth. You did the right thing by doing so if you were so seriously insecure and unhappy with being accepted into the arms of our community, or maybe you weren't and that is the cause of the chip on your shoulder.

At any rate let me educate you just a bit; The title of "Americans" bestowed upon us was done so a few centuries ago when we fought a little war referred to as the "American War of Independence" AKA "American Revolutionary War" (in both cases the operative word in the title is "American") in which the final outcome was our Independence from English rule and birthed a new nation from that point to be OFFICIALLY referred to by the world wide official diplomatic community as the United States of AMERICA from which came the citizens of that country being referred to as "Americans" in much the same way the Canadian citizens are referred to as Canadians, Mexico, Panama, Germany, Britain, et al... Is that elementary enough for you to understand now??

There are many wars of independence titled "Latin American Wars for Independence" referring to south South America but none of their citizens are referred to as "Americans" but rather the country of their origin I.E. Brazil, Argentina, Columbia, et al and there is no other such conflicts or titles of independence in north America either, only referring to the names of the country of origin.

The majority of the world speak other languages then English do they?? Maybe combined, but not universally and singularly, English is only bested by 2 others depending on which source you use and often comes in at #2 but universally and not surprisingly Mandarin Chinese is #1 (with 1.3 billion people no wonder and that's just in China) and Spanish so obviously that comment is extraordinarily untrue and irrelevant to the official world wide title of being an American from the United States of America. Here they call us all farang but that isn't any relation what-so-ever to anyone's nationality so I could really care less how OTHER minority "languages" refer to us..

USians ?? A few more bitter people of envious nationality like yourself no doubt.. So, in essence you can stomp your feet and throw out all the derogatory terms for "Americans" that you wish referred to us but bottom line is that it is the officially recognized title of citizens of the USA and always will be so you may as well come to terms with it and not stress so much over something you will never change ..

Anyhow that's the end of this debate for me, my point is valid and anymore discussion is just redundant and pedantic..

[Mossfinn]

you have some neck saying things like that when you stem from a country that gives passports to the bombers who killed innocent people in the 7/7 bombings in london.

please don't paint all British Muslims the same as those responsible for the atrocity of July 7th 2005.

Where does Ken paint all British Muslims with the responsibility of 7/7?

[StreetCowboy]

...

...

At any rate let me educate you just a bit; The title of "Americans" bestowed upon us was done so a few centuries ago when we fought a little war referred to as the "American War of Independence" AKA "American Revolutionary War" (in both cases the operative word in the title is "American") in which the final outcome was our Independence from English rule and birthed a new nation from that point to be OFFICIALLY referred to by the world wide official diplomatic community as the United States of AMERICA from which came the citizens of that country being referred to as "Americans" in much the same way the Canadian citizens are referred to as Canadians, Mexico, Panama, Germany, Britain, et al... Is that elementary enough for you to understand now??

...

...

...

Anyhow that's the end of this debate for me, my point is valid and anymore discussion is just redundant and pedantic..

Why do we bother?

Is illiteracy such a problem?

Independence from the United Kingdom of Great Britain (and Ireland? - not sure of the title at the time), often abbreviated to the UK, or Britain, and generally as an adjective "British".

The 'War of Independence' was fought by on one side, the British forces of the Crown, and on the other side, the British settlers who wanted to set up an independent republic.

SC

[WebBangkok]

He could have just wrote farang (sorry in advance to all for opening this can of worms).

lol That would be so funny.

[random]

...

...

At any rate let me educate you just a bit; The title of "Americans" bestowed upon us was done so a few centuries ago when we fought a little war referred to as the "American War of Independence" AKA "American Revolutionary War" (in both cases the operative word in the title is "American") in which the final outcome was our Independence from English rule and birthed a new nation from that point to be OFFICIALLY referred to by the world wide official diplomatic community as the United States of AMERICA from which came the citizens of that country being referred to as "Americans" in much the same way the Canadian citizens are referred to as Canadians, Mexico, Panama, Germany, Britain, et al... Is that elementary enough for you to understand now??

...

...

...

Anyhow that's the end of this debate for me, my point is valid and anymore discussion is just redundant and pedantic..

Why do we bother?

Is illiteracy such a problem?

Independence from the United Kingdom of Great Britain (and Ireland? - not sure of the title at the time), often abbreviated to the UK, or Britain, and generally as an adjective "British".

The 'War of Independence' was fought by on one side, the British forces of the Crown, and on the other side, the British settlers who wanted to set up an independent republic.

SC

correct, and the British settlers were joined by the French under General Lafayette who saw the chance to give the British a bloody nose by joining the British settlers (lets be honest here he would have stood no chance with just his french soldiers)