Obama Announces Deal To Raise Debt Limit, Cut Spending

[Pakboong]

You guys get serious. Of course what we need is yet another $800 Billion stimulus package that has just gobs of 'shovel ready' jobs.

Now that the silliness is out of my system, what the economy needs is simplification of the tax codes, fewer federal government regulations being added each and every month by this administration and the unknown fears business people have of the gorilla in the room, Obamacare.

Nobody knows what Obamacare will cost. The EPA, DOJ, IRS, DOE, NLRB, etc. are all out of control with no apparent direction coming from 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue...and the labor unions are eating it up and becoming more powerful every passing day.

What we need is stability, and we won't get it with this administration.

Chicago politics won't work in the US, and that, dear folks, is what the Tea Party Movement is all about.

Why not abolish the Fed, issue our own money, then default on the approximate half a trillion we owe them in annual interest. Lincoln did it with the "Greenback" and Kennedy attempted it with the "Silver Certificates".

[bonobo]

the majority of the TP politicians, and the rank-and-file followers, are pretty mindless sheep who when confronted, can only spout inane slogans.

Maybe, but the same can easily be said of the far left. Two weeks ago they were claiming that the Tea Party are all "racists". Now they are all parroting the party line that the Tea Party are all "terrorists". Mindless sheep.

Regardless of the name-calling, what has struck me is how ignorant many if not most of the TP'ers are. With other groups, right or left, people seem to have a better grasp of their own principles and can argue them in a reasonable manner. With very few exceptions, from what I have seen, the TP'ers are more like religious fanatics who can chant slogans (once again, reminiscent of the Cultural Revolution) or Pakistani members of some Madrasahes without a real concept of what they are espousing. To be fair, a few don't fit this and can discuss issues with the best of them, but for most, it is almost painful to see them being interviewed.

I believe this country needs both the far left and far right, if only to keep the center honest. I fear either end fo the spectrum actually gaining control over the system.

[Ulysses G.]

Just as I thought. You aren't capable of documenting your accusation because it isn't true.

It is a lot more true than constantly referring to the Tea Party as "terrorists" as certain left-wing posters have done on here.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Jingthing]

I believe this country needs both the far left and far right, if only to keep the center honest. I fear either end fo the spectrum actually gaining control over the system.

Definitely. Of course to tea party people Obama is a radical leftist when actually he is a center left moderate. Bottom line, the majority of Americans are center right.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

With other groups, right or left, people seem to have a better grasp of their own principles and can argue them in a reasonable manner. With very few exceptions, from what I have seen, the TP'ers are more like religious fanatics who can chant slogans (once again, reminiscent of the Cultural Revolution) or Pakistani members of some Madrasahes without a real concept of what they are espousing.

If this is true, I have to suspect that the "lame-stream" media are purposely choosing to use these interviews to make them look bad as I have not noticed this on Fox News where they appear constantly.

It is kind of like when certain radio announcers ask common people on the street to answer simple questions to show how stupid they are supposed to be, but never show the ones that answer correctly.

[Ulysses G.]

I believe this country needs both the far left and far right, if only to keep the center honest. I fear either end fo the spectrum actually gaining control over the system.

Definitely. Of course to tea party people Obama is a radical leftist when actually he is a center left moderate. Bottom line, the majority of Americans are center right.

More like a radical leftist who wants to appear to be a moderate, so that he got elected in the first place and then gets re-elected.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[koheesti]

This thread is insane. People who want the government to cut spending to fix the debt are terrorists and Obama is a center left moderate.

[koheesti]

I would have thought the US would have voting compulsory by now. It certainly cuts down chances of nuts such as the tea party causing so much havoc,

That's exactly the opposite of what the right wing wants. They work overtime to come up with schemes to disenfranchise poor and minority voters, who are mostly democrats.

Yep, the Dems have the corner on "free handout" voting block. Watching CNN Int'l and the interviews they do on the street about the debt debate, they only interview people taking some kind of government handout. Republicans preach "work to make your own life better" and the Dems preach "you're too stupid to do it yourself so let us give you money so you vote for us". Which one do you think the poor and lazy are going to vote for?

[chuckd]

You guys get serious. Of course what we need is yet another $800 Billion stimulus package that has just gobs of 'shovel ready' jobs.

Now that the silliness is out of my system, what the economy needs is simplification of the tax codes, fewer federal government regulations being added each and every month by this administration and the unknown fears business people have of the gorilla in the room, Obamacare.

Nobody knows what Obamacare will cost. The EPA, DOJ, IRS, DOE, NLRB, etc. are all out of control with no apparent direction coming from 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue...and the labor unions are eating it up and becoming more powerful every passing day.

What we need is stability, and we won't get it with this administration.

Chicago politics won't work in the US, and that, dear folks, is what the Tea Party Movement is all about.

I agree with most of what you wrote here. Until the last sentence, that is.

There are a few erudite Tea Partiers who have a firm, even rational concept in mind and who can discuss that concept. However, for the most part, and I have formed this opinion after watching and reading countless interviews with TP candidates, the majority of the TP politicians, and the rank-and-file followers, are pretty mindless sheep who when confronted, can only spout inane slogans.

And for me, that is too bad. It makes the TP movement a joke. Jingthing is not too far off with his comparison to the Cultural Revolution. I don't hold with too many of the TP tenants, but our political system needs all views to come to rational decisions, and certainly many of the TP views need to be considered. But it takes competent, rational people to make those views, and not enough of them are around, in my opinion.

It's interesting you only name the Tea Party Movement followers as being mindless sheep.

Do you then believe that followers of other political philosophies are more lucid, provide coherent answers to questions, do not invoke inane slogans and think for themselves?

I am confused at that since I recently watched the takeover of the Wisconsin Capitol building and saw quite a few inane slogans and a general lack of lucid thought going on at that time.

Further to that thought, the Democratic Congress persons that likened their political opponents to terrorists, hostage takers and suicide bombers to name a few, could hardly be called lucid dialog.

There are wrongs on both sides of the aisle, but to dismiss the Tea Party Movement as something less than it is will prove to be a rather large mistake in the long run.

Let me be clear (where have I heard that before?) I am not a Tea Party member but I do believe in many of their proposals. I cannot say the same for the actions of the Democratic Party in the last five years. Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and quite frankly, Barack Obama have left me wondering what has happened to our political system.

Is the Tea Party the solution to our problems? Probably not, but a breath of fresh air might clean out the stench of a smoke filled room in our nation's Capitol building.

[snarky66]

Tea Parties simply care about the future of the country.

Too bad it is so hard for you to swallow.

It's a backlash to Schumer, Weiner & the rest of the left wing loons who march in lockstep to the community organizer. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, now there is a hate filled person & shrill to boot.

[snarky66]

It's interesting isn't it. At Glenn Beck's rally a 100,000 people & more showed up. Very well behaved & cleared up their own litter.

Quite a difference from the left, I'm remembering Seattle , the Mayhem in England over school fees, riots in Greece & head busting in France the MSM make dam_n sure that never gets seen on TV. Left wing loons. with blood streaming down their heads after confrontations with police, now that will make the 6 & 8 o'clock news. Car burning = purely the left.

You can attack the tea parties all you want.

We are dam_n fed up with radical left wing Community organizers that take their cue from Fidel Castro & Che Guevara.

O & lets not forget another new tactic of the left. What you do is cut 500 billion out of Medicare & call it Obamacare & then you accuse Repubs of wanting to kill granny. Now that is hypocrisy. . The new left. Hammer & sickle.

[Jingthing]

No, they care to shove their radical right wing agenda down the throats of the majority. The majority most certainly DO NOT want entitlement programs gutted. That is what the leadership of the tea party is clearly after. Their like Ayn Rand on steroids.

[chuckd]

The tea party movement (BTW, are we allowed to call them the bagger word here, because after all that was how they first described THEMSELVES before they learned a few facts of life?) is reminding me of the Chinese Cultural Revolution. The difference being they are capitalist fundamentalists rather than communist fundamentalists. We should all know by now that extremist fundamentalism of ANY kind always results in massive death and destruction. Americans of good faith need to actively oppose this radical extremism or we are indeed doomed to the pain other countries have experienced when taken over by extreme fundamentalist radicals.

The tea party people don't yet have a leader icon like Mao (yet) except for Sarah Palin who doesn't exactly cut it.

Hard times are historically when these kinds of horribly destructive movements tend to take power. So we are not out of the woods on this as the times are going to get a lot worse.

Your comparison of the Tea Party Movement to the Chinese Cultural Revolution is rather over the top.

The Chinese cultural revolution is estimated to have claimed the lives of some 500,000 people.

How many American lives have been lost as a result of any Tea Party actions?

Your rhetoric seems to be gaining ground daily towards the absurd.

Edited August 5, 2011 by chuckd

[snarky66]

I predict the backlash to obama will be as great as the backlash to carter. The libs (Marxists whatever) will be on their knees for decades. Their golden moment came & they squandered it.

[Jingthing]

The tea party movement (BTW, are we allowed to call them the bagger word here, because after all that was how they first described THEMSELVES before they learned a few facts of life?) is reminding me of the Chinese Cultural Revolution. The difference being they are capitalist fundamentalists rather than communist fundamentalists. We should all know by now that extremist fundamentalism of ANY kind always results in massive death and destruction. Americans of good faith need to actively oppose this radical extremism or we are indeed doomed to the pain other countries have experienced when taken over by extreme fundamentalist radicals.

The tea party people don't yet have a leader icon like Mao (yet) except for Sarah Palin who doesn't exactly cut it.

Hard times are historically when these kinds of horribly destructive movements tend to take power. So we are not out of the woods on this as the times are going to get a lot worse.

Your comparison of the Tea Party Movement to the Chinese Cultural Revolution is rather over the top.

The Chinese cultural revolution is estimated to have claimed the lives of some 500,000 people.

How many American lives have been lost as a result of any Tea Party actions?

Your rhetoric seems to be gaining ground daily towards the absurd.

Sorry you don't get it. I posted that as a WARNING of what can happen when extremist fundamentalists gain total power. The tea people won a battle, if we let them win the war, don't say I didn't warn you.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Jingthing

[snarky66]

Pure histrionics chuck.

[Jingthing]

This thread is insane. People who want the government to cut spending to fix the debt are terrorists and Obama is a center left moderate.

It is radical to suggest that fixing the debt can only happen by cuts and also totally gutting all social programs. Tea party are dangerous, extremist, radicals. You need to preserve vital programs, massively reform the tax code, and yes increase taxes as well as cut spending. For example raise the social security payroll tax CAP and social security funding is solved basically forever.

Obama is center left. You clearly live so far right that you have lost any semblance of an objective perspective.

http://www.kiplinger.com/columns/washington/archives/obama-as-a-centrist-really.html

Most real leftists (I don't consider myself radical as I am pro capitalism) wish Obama was MORE leftist. For example we wanted a Canadian style health system that has worked very well in many advanced countries. Obama didn't even START negotiating from that position, he started far to the right of that, and ending up with a mess of a bill (something I think most everyone agrees with).

Edited August 5, 2011 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

Your rhetoric seems to be gaining ground daily towards the absurd.

Nothing new there.

[Jingthing]

Your rhetoric seems to be gaining ground daily towards the absurd.

Nothing new there.

[snarky66]

This is why we, tea parity patriots do not need to reason with libs we need to steamroll them. They are beyond talking to.

Schumer sends out the lib talking points every morning & they get repeated by MSNBC & by one esteemed member of this board.

I do not wish to negotiate with libs, I want to see them crushed.

[Ulysses G.]

You've got ne beaten by a mile in that department.

[Jingthing]

This is why we, tea parity patriots do not need to reason with libs we need to steamroll them. They are beyond talking to.

Schumer sends out the lib talking points every morning & they get repeated by MSNBC & by one esteemed member of this board.

I do not wish to negotiate with libs, I want to see them crushed.

Not surprised. So it's political civil war then. You're not patriots, you're much more like traitors. You only like what you decide to like (and twist) from the constitution and you pine for an ideal America that never existed. Perhaps we can blame the poor education system on cases like yours.

BTW, your tone betrays some obvious FASCIST tendencies. Very tea party. I think your party is indeed a greater threat to America right now than Al Queda.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Jingthing

[snarky66]

Here's an interesting concept for you. Pay as you go. cash & carry.

No more I.O.U.'s

No more asking my kids to pay for your dumb Marxist schemes.

[koheesti]

This thread is insane. People who want the government to cut spending to fix the debt are terrorists and Obama is a center left moderate.

It is radical to suggest that fixing the debt can only happen by cuts and also totally gutting all social programs. Tea party are dangerous, extremist, radicals. You need to preserve vital programs, massively reform the tax code, and yes increase taxes as well as cut spending. For example raise the social security payroll tax CAP and social security funding is solved basically forever.

Obama is center left. You clearly live so far right that you have lost any semblance of an objective perspective.

http://www.kiplinger...ist-really.html

Who is suggesting "totally gutting all social programs"? Good new, your hate is based on fantasy so you can lighten up.

You want to raise taxes - to what end? To pay off our debt or to spend on more programs?

Obama is way left of center, not "center left". Obama is so far left, I now think Hillary is a moderate and would even vote for her. I never would have dreamed of saying that 4 years ago.

You have some serious nerve to talk about anyone else having an "objective perspective" when in this thread you have displayed anything but.

[bonobo]

This is why we, tea parity patriots do not need to reason with libs we need to steamroll them. They are beyond talking to.

Schumer sends out the lib talking points every morning & they get repeated by MSNBC & by one esteemed member of this board.

I do not wish to negotiate with libs, I want to see them crushed.

Your post exactly illustrates the problem I have with the majority of Tea Partiers. You spout rhetoric and show your reticence to work together to solve a problem.

[bonobo]

You guys get serious. Of course what we need is yet another $800 Billion stimulus package that has just gobs of 'shovel ready' jobs.

Now that the silliness is out of my system, what the economy needs is simplification of the tax codes, fewer federal government regulations being added each and every month by this administration and the unknown fears business people have of the gorilla in the room, Obamacare.

Nobody knows what Obamacare will cost. The EPA, DOJ, IRS, DOE, NLRB, etc. are all out of control with no apparent direction coming from 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue...and the labor unions are eating it up and becoming more powerful every passing day.

What we need is stability, and we won't get it with this administration.

Chicago politics won't work in the US, and that, dear folks, is what the Tea Party Movement is all about.

I agree with most of what you wrote here. Until the last sentence, that is.

There are a few erudite Tea Partiers who have a firm, even rational concept in mind and who can discuss that concept. However, for the most part, and I have formed this opinion after watching and reading countless interviews with TP candidates, the majority of the TP politicians, and the rank-and-file followers, are pretty mindless sheep who when confronted, can only spout inane slogans.

And for me, that is too bad. It makes the TP movement a joke. Jingthing is not too far off with his comparison to the Cultural Revolution. I don't hold with too many of the TP tenants, but our political system needs all views to come to rational decisions, and certainly many of the TP views need to be considered. But it takes competent, rational people to make those views, and not enough of them are around, in my opinion.

It's interesting you only name the Tea Party Movement followers as being mindless sheep.

Do you then believe that followers of other political philosophies are more lucid, provide coherent answers to questions, do not invoke inane slogans and think for themselves?

I am confused at that since I recently watched the takeover of the Wisconsin Capitol building and saw quite a few inane slogans and a general lack of lucid thought going on at that time.

Further to that thought, the Democratic Congress persons that likened their political opponents to terrorists, hostage takers and suicide bombers to name a few, could hardly be called lucid dialog.

There are wrongs on both sides of the aisle, but to dismiss the Tea Party Movement as something less than it is will prove to be a rather large mistake in the long run.

Let me be clear (where have I heard that before?) I am not a Tea Party member but I do believe in many of their proposals. I cannot say the same for the actions of the Democratic Party in the last five years. Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and quite frankly, Barack Obama have left me wondering what has happened to our political system.

Is the Tea Party the solution to our problems? Probably not, but a breath of fresh air might clean out the stench of a smoke filled room in our nation's Capitol building.

I am writing about the Tea Partiers here because in this case, I think they were the biggest obstacles to a solution. And while I have to concede your point about some liberal or other conservative followers also being mindless sheep, I still hold that the leaders, those running for and gaining office, are far less cognizant about their own group's platform than those from just about any other group, be they Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, Greens, whatever.

I was disgusted about what happened in Wisconsin as well, but that is not an issue here.

I want all views to be brought out into the open for rational debate. I can accept some of the premises of the TPM, but frankly, the views of most Tea Partiers on gay rights, dialogue with the Muslim world, global warming, and immigration are views with which I do take issue. But that does not mean I want them silenced. I can listen to a man like Jim DeMint, but frankly I think that Palin, Bachmann, and Beck are hardly the sort of people who should be shaping US policy. I may disagree with some of what DeMint says, but at least he can voice his views in a rational and reasonable manner.

[Jingthing]

No, I absolutely do believe a core value of the tea party is to gut ALL social programs. Like I said, they are RADICALS. They are asking for a FIGHT, and they bloody well are going to get it. I also agree they have no interest in COOPERATING and NEGOTIATING for the greater good

Democratic house leader calling them NIHILISTS, agents of mass destruction. I so agree --

Her points were these: She is deeply dissatisfied with the debt deal and the deficit-reducing supercommittee it creates. She believes Republicans are essentially political nihilists, and she has plans to prevent them from winning again. And she is intensely focused on jobs and growth.

"Everybody who has looked at this issue said, 'Do not make big cuts too soon, you will slow economic growth,' " she said, referring to the debt deal.

When talking about how to defeat Republicans in 2012, Pelosi depicted them as chaotic and destructive. "Why don't they want to create jobs? Is it because they want the president to fail? I'm not going to go into that," she said. Dismantling the "public sphere" is their endgame, and they will "use the engine of deficit reduction as an excuse to destroy" it, she warned. "We cannot let them do that.

http://www.slate.com/id/2300904/

There is no way the Tea Party can fulfill its destiny without gutting government. For them, it’s foundational. But there is no way to gut government without gutting so-called entitlements; and there is no way to cut entitlements without gutting the sacred cows of Social Security and Medicare. So there you have it, a Gordian Knot for the ages, one more likely to unravel the Tea Party than to be unraveled by it.

http://open.salon.com/blog/steve_klingaman/2011/05/04/the_tea_partys_gordian_knot_over_entitlements Edited August 5, 2011 by Jingthing

[koheesti]

I am writing about the Tea Partiers here because in this case, I think they were the biggest obstacles to a solution.

What were the solutions being discussed? Raise the debt limit another X-trillion until 6-12 months down the line? Phantom cuts to spending which really was nothing more than smaller spending increases in the future? Raise taxes which may or may not increase revenues and what to use those revenues for? If not for the Tea Party we'd be in even worse shape than we are now. IF NOTHING ELSE, they have brought this issue to the attention to the voters where in previous years the Dems and Reps in Congress would have pulled off their typical dog & pony show tricking us into thinking they had fixed the problem.

I want all views to be brought out into the open for rational debate. I can accept some of the premises of the TPM, but frankly, the views of most Tea Partiers on gay rights, dialogue with the Muslim world, global warming, and immigration are views with which I do take issue.

Well, I will admit ignorance on this. I thought the Tea Party was about fiscal responsibility. I didn't know they had official positions on gay rights, global warming, etc. Do you happen to have a link to where I can read more about it?

[koheesti]

No, I absolutely do believe a core value of the tea party is to gut ALL social programs. Like I said, they are RADICALS. They are asking for a FIGHT, and they bloody well are going to get it. I also agree they have no interest in COOPERATING and NEGOTIATING for the greater good

This reminds me of a crack addict who thinks his family and friends are out to get him because they won't give him anymore money for drugs.

[Jingthing]

Well, I will admit ignorance on this. I thought the Tea Party was about fiscal responsibility. I didn't know they had official positions on gay rights, global warming, etc. Do you happen to have a link to where I can read more about it?

No, they are deeply linked in now with the noxious social issues of the right wing.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/tea-party-nation-we-must-stand-bachmanns-against-gay-rights