Tablet Computers Are No Cure For Our Ailing Schools; Thai Opinion

[theanimaster]

I'm a teacher in a gov't school. I teach information technology. Actually you know what? I ~CHAMPION~ IT. However, I would NEVER recommend anything like "free tablets" to the lot I used to teach in normal program. Even English program (EP) students have to be watched very closely when it comes to them getting their hands on technology.

The classroom A/V systems in the normal program were just installed a few weeks ago. Now they're all completely trashed. EP fares better because the students pay for what they break and the FOREIGN TEACHERS keep a close watch over equipment (we don't like using busted junk).

The one tablet per child is exactly what it is -- a bribe for votes, at the expense of public education and taxpayers' money. Parents (specially red shirts) are such suckers for this... But who can blame them. They're uneducated and ignorant, thanks to things like "one tablet per child".

These politicians are not idiots. They FOSTER idiocy and then they CONTROL the idiots at the end of the chute. They know what they're doing. It works. It's brilliant.

[tominbkk]

The classroom A/V systems in the normal program were just installed a few weeks ago. Now they're all completely trashed. EP fares better because the students pay for what they break and the FOREIGN TEACHERS keep a close watch over equipment (we don't like using busted junk).

This is one of the main problems they will have, amongst all the others I mentioned earlier. Without a proper system in place holding students accountable for the equipment, or a staff dedicated to IT maintenance, within three months 75% of the pads will be broken, stolen, or otherwise not working. And who will be responsible for replacing them? Nobody, and within 6 months they will not be used in the school anymore.

Better to spend the money on desktop computer labs and proper instructors and maintenance crews to manage them. I work in a decent intl school, and IT/Tech/Design is a dynamic part of our curriculum, starting at Grade 1 up through Grade 12. You need professional educators though who know how to create, integrate, and facilitate IT within the school, with the know how to keep up organization and maintenance of the IT equipment.

This whole tablet PC initiative is, pardon the french, going to end up being one big pigfuc_k.

Edited August 4, 2011 by tominbkk

[nikster]

I have seen it in Universities, you give the students a netbook or a tablet then they use them in class, it does not matter who you are, the minute you turn your back the tablet will be on. They will be loaded with software that the MoE wants, but what is to stop them adding games and just playing games all day long on them.

Well - they can be locked down. There's enterprise management tools for the iPad which can pre-install apps and prevent users from loading new apps. But if they do that they'll end up unused. It's probably worth more if they remain unlocked and the kids can find interesting stuff on their own.

The Thai education system seems hopeless on many levels, it's hard to imagine this changing without some strong political leadership, and it's hard to see any such leadership on the horizon.

All in all I totally agree that whatever they plan on spending on these iPads would be better spent on teacher's salaries. But, nobody is going to make a nice cut on teacher's salaries, buying equipment is much more attractive.

IMO though salaries are only part of the problem. Another one is the culture where nobody is allowed to ask questions - students in Thai schools are actively discouraged from thinking. If you ask a question, your teacher loses face. As he apparently hasn't explained it well enough. Now in such a system, what can ever come from it? Those that end up smart do so despite the system, not because of it.

[Crushdepth]

I like Steve Jobs' quote at the end. It's the humanities and liberal arts that draw us out to think about what being fully human means. Technology can and does assist that, but although new technology creates new communities (like ThaiVisa, for example) the deep human issues are not technological.

The unthinking opportunism of Pheua Thai's plan to dole out tablets is obvious and has been discussed extensively on another thread.

I am concerned with the editorialist's throw-away line that "It is no secret that one of the major weaknesses of our school system is the quality of teachers coupled with large class sizes".

It's not the "quality" of the teachers that is the problem. The teachers comprise large numbers of people with a wide range of "qualities". The problem is more likely that they are inadequately trained and are provided with inadequate support, insufficient resources and minimal ongoing professional development. Furthermore, they are disempowered - unable to challenge existing conditions and structures - they have no voice, no unions or staff associations and no leadership that seriously asks for their input. Most of them, no matter how intelligent, capable and conscientious they are, are forced to be drones. They can only do the best they can under very difficult circumstances.

If teachers are not able to do the job the community wants, the community has to ask what's stopping them? It's too easy to blame the victim.

:clap2: :clap2:

And lets not forget that teachers are being gunned down in the south. For teaching.

[who]

What a well-written and, unfortunately, extremely accurate article.

My belief is that they would end up being nothing more than an expensive gaming station.

---- Nail on head ----

[jcartermad]

Dont worry about their starting salary. By the time they reach 30 they will be on about 43,000 + 12,000 if they are a specialist...say teach English.

I know many specialists, got the degree, MSc in English etc but can they speak, er NO. Good grammar but poor speaking skills. So cheer up. 8,000 baht will soon change with each passing year. Then they just wait to retire on a fat pension. Tell them to look forward to the nice house and car plus all the hidden perks. Life's good as a teacher!

I like Steve Jobs' quote at the end. It's the humanities and liberal arts that draw us out to think about what being fully human means. Technology can and does assist that, but although new technology creates new communities (like ThaiVisa, for example) the deep human issues are not technological.

The unthinking opportunism of Pheua Thai's plan to dole out tablets is obvious and has been discussed extensively on another thread.

I am concerned with the editorialist's throw-away line that "It is no secret that one of the major weaknesses of our school system is the quality of teachers coupled with large class sizes".

It's not the "quality" of the teachers that is the problem. The teachers comprise large numbers of people with a wide range of "qualities". The problem is more likely that they are inadequately trained and are provided with inadequate support, insufficient resources and minimal ongoing professional development. Furthermore, they are disempowered - unable to challenge existing conditions and structures - they have no voice, no unions or staff associations and no leadership that seriously asks for their input. Most of them, no matter how intelligent, capable and conscientious they are, are forced to be drones. They can only do the best they can under very difficult circumstances.

If teachers are not able to do the job the community wants, the community has to ask what's stopping them? It's too easy to blame the victim.

Very good analysis. I'd add that the teachers also get an insultingly low salary. It's never going to be easy to attract talented and caring teachers for 4 - 5K baht per month. Some in rural areas probably make even less.

So true, there are several well qualified teachers in my extended family, two have graduated within the last three to four years and have the new 5 year education degree. These two are on 6,400, and 6,800Baht a month.

They have both mentioned that their teachers union representative told them the new 15,000 starting salary will not be applicable to new teachers (they know it won't be applicable to those already in service) because of some complex regulation which puts teachers into a different category.

Both are also annoyed that they get continuous push to borrow money from various teachers credit facilities. Both realize that getting into debt is unwise and should be avoided. They say the 'push' to borrow money is quite strong. One described it as 'if your haven't borrowed from the teachers credit facility then your not a real teacher'.

Both are desperately searching for other work, because of the low salary and because older teachers don't accept 'new kids with new knowledge'. In one case the headmaster tasked a couple of new graduates to make a presentation to the older teachers about new education theories and how to generate participation in learning activity (often called project based learning). Nobody turned up and some older teachers told the head they were insulted and demanded the head promise such a presentation would never be organized again.

Both new graduates have mentioned that in many cases the older teachers will not be able to do any form of 'coordination' between class room lessons and what might be available on the tablet PCs that kids will have. The older teachers simply don't have the IT knowledge to do this, plus they don't have learning theory knowledge to understand what might underly the various websites which might be useful as reinforcement activities.

It's gunna be a tough road.

[whybother]

Agree that tablets won't revolutionize the education system, but I don't think it will make it worse either ...

The Thai curriculum and teaching methods need to be updated and reflect the 21st century , that would require some subjects where rote learning is required to be substituted with more useful subjects but that is not going to happen anytime soon as it will the require the society to change....I don't recall any drastic changes in the Thai curriculum under AV either .

I have seen these book reading statistics before and I somehow doubt that kids anywhere should be reading more than 1 book pr week ... don't think so ... but yes reading books is important ....depending on what kind of books it is of course. ..;-)

It might not make it worse, but the money could be spent on something else to make it better.

[gosompoi]

Salary completely wrong, Starting pay for a Teacher is about 6000 baht, (for a 21 year old) it goes up every year and includes a guaranteed pension for life. My ex head of English was on 40,000 baht with most teachers on 25,000 or more. This was in a Government school in Bangkok. Don't believe all of the Thai teachers poverty stories because they are usually not true.

Sad but wrong, I work at a Thai Government Matayom (High School) School in Sisaket which won the kings prize last year. We have 3 new full time teachers this year, their salaries are English teacher 4,000 baht, Math Teacher 4,000 baht, Thai teacher 3,000 baht. My wife has a MS degree in Mathematics, BS Math and minor Education and a government Math teacher at this school for 15 year and her salary is 20,000. We have four more teachers with a salary below 8,000 baht with degrees and between 5 and 8 years experience. Last Month the school went to Bangkok receive their award to pictures and TV coverage. If this is an example of the best of Thai Government Schools it is sad fact.

[lungmi]

I like Steve Jobs' quote at the end. It's the humanities and liberal arts that draw us out to think about what being fully human means. Technology can and does assist that, but although new technology creates new communities (like ThaiVisa, for example) the deep human issues are not technological.

The unthinking opportunism of Pheua Thai's plan to dole out tablets is obvious and has been discussed extensively on another thread.

I am concerned with the editorialist's throw-away line that "It is no secret that one of the major weaknesses of our school system is the quality of teachers coupled with large class sizes".

It's not the "quality" of the teachers that is the problem. The teachers comprise large numbers of people with a wide range of "qualities". The problem is more likely that they are inadequately trained and are provided with inadequate support, insufficient resources and minimal ongoing professional development. Furthermore, they are disempowered - unable to challenge existing conditions and structures - they have no voice, no unions or staff associations and no leadership that seriously asks for their input. Most of them, no matter how intelligent, capable and conscientious they are, are forced to be drones. They can only do the best they can under very difficult circumstances.

If teachers are not able to do the job the community wants, the community has to ask what's stopping them? It's too easy to blame the victim.

100% right, it's fitting with my experience in a rural area. We have good English teachers by their studies, but no no no one taught them how to teach.

I had English teaching in a Hilltribe school on the demand of engaged English teachers.

We made french pancakes, I explained in English all the ingredients to the teachers and we made pancakes, then the teachers explained in English the same to the older students, then the older students explained to the youngers how to make pancakes (in English, because other languages was forbidden). At the end the teachers and older students had a good service by the younger, proud to learn how to make pancakes.

May be they didn't learn English very much, but we all had a good party. Learning by doing and cooking and eating.

The notebook promised by the new gouvernement can make pancakes?.

Edited August 5, 2011 by lungmi

[Bagwan]

I like Steve Jobs' quote at the end. It's the humanities and liberal arts that draw us out to think about what being fully human means. Technology can and does assist that, but although new technology creates new communities (like ThaiVisa, for example) the deep human issues are not technological.

The unthinking opportunism of Pheua Thai's plan to dole out tablets is obvious and has been discussed extensively on another thread.

I am concerned with the editorialist's throw-away line that "It is no secret that one of the major weaknesses of our school system is the quality of teachers coupled with large class sizes".

It's not the "quality" of the teachers that is the problem. The teachers comprise large numbers of people with a wide range of "qualities". The problem is more likely that they are inadequately trained and are provided with inadequate support, insufficient resources and minimal ongoing professional development. Furthermore, they are disempowered - unable to challenge existing conditions and structures - they have no voice, no unions or staff associations and no leadership that seriously asks for their input. Most of them, no matter how intelligent, capable and conscientious they are, are forced to be drones. They can only do the best they can under very difficult circumstances.

If teachers are not able to do the job the community wants, the community has to ask what's stopping them? It's too easy to blame the victim.

Very good analysis. I'd add that the teachers also get an insultingly low salary. It's never going to be easy to attract talented and caring teachers for 4 - 5K baht per month. Some in rural areas probably make even less.

Salary completely wrong, Starting pay for a Teacher is about 6000 baht, (for a 21 year old) it goes up every year and includes a guaranteed pension for life. My ex head of English was on 40,000 baht with most teachers on 25,000 or more. This was in a Government school in Bangkok. Don't believe all of the Thai teachers poverty stories because they are usually not true.

Not only that but they get nice uniforms with gold stripes on the shoulder epaulets and lots of pretty medals. For doing what? This outfit ranks right up there with the tight short skirts of Uni girls. Rings my bell anyway.

[Bagwan]

u cant polish a turd.

Actually theoretically if it were frozen at a very low temp you could polish it.

But you can varnish one.

[Thaddeus]

u cant polish a turd.

Actually theoretically if it were frozen at a very low temp you could polish it.

But you can varnish one.

[Bagwan]

Kids are not listening to the lectures probably because they are irrelevant and possibly quite boring. I went to uni well before laptops, and in my boring classes managed to slough off, using paper and pencil! Teachers that inspired me or kept things energetic or controversial were the classes that I (and everyone else around me) paid attention to.

Yes listening is hard work isn''t it? Every manager, every attendee at a meeting, needs to pay attention,concentrate and take on board what is said and agreed. It is work I have no doubt. Same, same with students. Concentrate on preceedings. Let the lecturer stop and ask a few of the dozy ones questions. That focuses the attention of everybody and provides feedback to the teacher/lecturer/speaker on how his message is being received. That students decided what is relevant and what is not turns education on its head. As for being boring I would suggest that if those in the audience have no hunger for learning, I think they should seek for fulfillment and education elsewhere.

On Friday afternoons I used to talk to graduate students about such subjects as the role of management or the implementation of company policies. I once asked a lad who looked as if he was nodding off whether he thought the subject was boring and a waste of his valuable time. He blustered, looking frantically for a paddle to extract himself from Sh*t Creek. l then asked if he thought that I was totally enamoured with what I was doing. Did he think that I really preferred trying to put stripes on novices backs to knocking a ball around a golf course as I could have been doing? The point I am making is that attending school, college or university is not a comedy show. Neither is earning a living. Keeping one's ears and eyes open and one's mouth shut is a good policy to follow to bring about success.

[scorecard]

They have both mentioned that their teachers union representative told them the new 15,000 starting salary will not be applicable to new teachers (they know it won't be applicable to those already in service) because of some complex regulation which puts teachers into a different category

explain please. if not applicable to new teachers and not for those already in service, then for who ?

Good point, I asked this clarification question to my teacher relatives, they asked same question at the time it was all discussed, but got no logical answers. Remains unclear.

[kanderson]

I like Steve Jobs' quote at the end. It's the humanities and liberal arts that draw us out to think about what being fully human means. Technology can and does assist that, but although new technology creates new communities (like ThaiVisa, for example) the deep human issues are not technological.

The unthinking opportunism of Pheua Thai's plan to dole out tablets is obvious and has been discussed extensively on another thread.

I am concerned with the editorialist's throw-away line that "It is no secret that one of the major weaknesses of our school system is the quality of teachers coupled with large class sizes".

It's not the "quality" of the teachers that is the problem. The teachers comprise large numbers of people with a wide range of "qualities". The problem is more likely that they are inadequately trained and are provided with inadequate support, insufficient resources and minimal ongoing professional development. Furthermore, they are disempowered - unable to challenge existing conditions and structures - they have no voice, no unions or staff associations and no leadership that seriously asks for their input. Most of them, no matter how intelligent, capable and conscientious they are, are forced to be drones. They can only do the best they can under very difficult circumstances.

If teachers are not able to do the job the community wants, the community has to ask what's stopping them? It's too easy to blame the victim.

Nice words - I like this:

It's the humanities and liberal arts that draw us out to think about what being fully human means

I'd say if your like 11 or 12 years old - a free computer of some type is in order.

If a game like Mario was popular - it's great for Thai learners rrrr sound as in roof or Christmas.

Computers get misused - stolen - broken - sold - whatever - that's life. It's the future - now doubt in my mind.

As in the Buddist way - everything is just temporary. That is so true for computers - lets get this done

if possible.

[kanderson]

Of course tablets arent going to be a cure-all for the deficiencies of the system. The MoE would need to be sorted out first. However, they are another option for kids and shouldnt be knocked. There are Asian countries aiming on replacing paper in classrooms with these very machines in the not too distant future. Obviously Thailand is behind the curve on this but the idea of issuing tablets is founded on things others are doing. Obviously there is also the advantage that all kids as opposed to just wealthy ones get to handle modern technology and that in itself is going to be a bonus in the future.

The one tablet one child was a slogan to win votes, like the 300 baht minimum wage and 15,000 baht minimum salary for degree holders. None of these 3 policies were ever explained in detail as to their implementation by Pheua Thai.

Of course all the policies were vote catchers but that doesnt necessarily make them bad policies either. Obviosly implementation is critical as is actually fulfilling them in one way or another

How can you ".......replacing paper in classrooms with these very machines in the not too distant future."

Students, especially at lower levels, need to develop the skills to write more than develop the skills to use a keyboard.

What countries have this policy? Please share.

I agree with needing to write with pen and paper - thats our first language skills.

Almost no way an L2 student needs, or can compete with our writing skills.

Also, I could never compete with a native Thai in written form.

[TAWP]

My friend, do you really believe what the teachers tell you about how poor they are? If you do you are very naive. I have been a teacher in Thailand for 8 years in 3 different schools and teachers are not badly paid especially when you see what they do in a "working" day.

My last school was a private school where one of the teachers was being paid over 60,000 baht a month, 30,000 for his school work and another 30,000 for picking kids up in the school van. I haven't seen many poor teachers but I have seen a lot of lazy ones.

A private school has very little value as comparison with a public school.

[nurofiend]

the possible cost of this is the only negative aspect of this proposal

was it a ploy for votes? you betcha

[gosompoi]

Very good analysis. I'd add that the teachers also get an insultingly low salary. It's never going to be easy to attract talented and caring teachers for 4 - 5K baht per month. Some in rural areas probably make even less.

Salary completely wrong, Starting pay for a Teacher is about 6000 baht, (for a 21 year old) it goes up every year and includes a guaranteed pension for life. My ex head of English was on 40,000 baht with most teachers on 25,000 or more. This was in a Government school in Bangkok. Don't believe all of the Thai teachers poverty stories because they are usually not true.

No, sorry, it's not completely wrong. I'm going by what teachers told me they received. This wasn't in Bangkok, it was in more rural parts of Thailand. Many government school teachers in Phuket don't make anywhere near what you're quoting here. In fact, there is some salary information on a very recent article at Phuket teacher's salary. "...6,000 baht per month. After Social Security – 420 baht – is deducted, we'll have just over 5,000 baht per month." This is in Phuket!

I work with a lot of schools and therefore with a lot of teachers. I know what's going on.

My brother is a physics and robotics teacher in the US. I know he is constantly being screwed over and many of his fellow teachers are being denied raises thanks to the economy. Even before the economic problems, US teachers were getting a raw deal. Teaching are one of the most important jobs in society. They should be compensated for their knowledge and expertise.

My friend, do you really believe what the teachers tell you about how poor they are? If you do you are very naive. I have been a teacher in Thailand for 8 years in 3 different schools and teachers are not badly paid especially when you see what they do in a "working" day.

My last school was a private school where one of the teachers was being paid over 60,000 baht a month, 30,000 for his school work and another 30,000 for picking kids up in the school van. I haven't seen many poor teachers but I have seen a lot of lazy ones.

My friend, You said it, PRIVATE SCHOOL. 99% of the Schools are public government schools. My school posts everyone's salary in order of amount paid and includes last years total and plus this years total to date on wall just as you enter the school office. As stated before my school is considered a model Thai government Matayom (High School) School in Sisaket which won the kings prize last year. We have 3 new full time teachers this year, their gross salaries are English teacher 4,000 baht, Math Teacher 4,000 baht, Thai teacher 3,000 baht. My wife is head of the Math Department and has a MS degree in Mathematics, BS Mathematics and minor Education and has been a government Math teacher at this school for 15 year and her salary is 18,500 a month. MY wife received a raise this year, last year her salary was 14,000 baht. We have four more teachers with a salary below 8,000 baht with degrees and between 5 and 8 years experience teaching at this school. If this is an example of the best of Thai Government Schools it is sad fact.