NUCLEAR

Safety laws not ready for nuclear project

By Pongphon Sarnsamak

The Nation

Thailand is not ready to go ahead with its plan to build nuclear power plant because the government has not yet issued safety laws regulating the operation of such a plant, Energy Ministry's deputy permanent secretary Kurujit Nakornthap said.

"The government has not certified a nuclear safety law for power plants that would answer the standards of the international nuclear agency," he said.

Kurujit was speaking at a public seminar entitled "The accident of Japan's Fukushima nuclear power plant and the impact to the country's power management policy" organised by the Energy Ministry. About 100 participants from various power agencies attended.

Since the accident at Japan's Fukushima nuclear power plant last March, Thailand's government decided to postpone its plans to build a nuclear power plant for three more years.

The plan to build a nuclear power plant was aimed at producing electricity from an alternative energy source, as the government hopes to reduce the use of natural gas by 2030.

To prepare for a nuclear power plant operation in the next three years, Kurujit said the government has to prepare skilled and knowledgeable experts to run it.

"We need persons who can control the operation and not just run a nuclear power plant," he said.

Moreover, the government needs to set up a neutral organisation to oversee the operation.

"This neutral organisation must run without intervention from any person…giving more concern to the safety of nuclear power operations," he added

The coordinator of the "Thai people don't want nuclear power plants network", Sodsai Sawangsok said people living around the future nuclear power plant construction site near Sirindhorn dam in Ubon Ratchatani were now worried about their future. The Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand (EGAT) continues to send staff to tell them about the plan to build a nuclear power plant there, even though the government has suspended it.

Sodsai and her colleagues from the network attended yesterday's public seminar and shared her experiences in Japan, including an international conference entitled "No Nuke Asia Forum 2011" from July 29.

She spoke with local people affected by the accident at the Fukushima nuclear power plant and found most still feared the sideeffects of nuclear power radiation contamination.

A Fukushima villager, Oka Ayako, said the Japanese government had not warned her about radiation. People learned from the media how to protect themselves from nuclear contamination. Even residents who had a book manual to explain about preparing for a nuclear accident found it did not help them much when the accident took place.

-- The Nation 2011-08-10

EGAT (The Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand )should concentrate on gas powered plants and maybe a bit more effort / interest in solar power plants ... wind energy I am not sure is a good idea here, don't think there is wind enough.

I am sure that the saftey standards will just as good as their helicoptors service program......

Thank someone, maybe God or Christ or Abraham or Mahammad. Now we can all continue to breathe the Bangkok black dust with relative ease.

The Army cant safeguard their amouries located within what supposedly are well guarded areas......what chance in Thailand does a nuke target stand against terrorists?

1000% waste of public money. There are many electricity generation alternatives available now if only the powers that be opened their eyes and minds to the 21st century. Ohhh i forgot...someone will miss out on their rretirement payments while building it.

Come on guys, saying Thailand can't safely manage a NUCLEAR power plant is a bit like saying the Shinawatra's will have their tax bill waived now that Yingluck is in power...... Oooops

Thailand + Nuclear Power Plant = A disaster in the making.

Given the state electrical wiring here I bet the plant:

Would not be grounded

Have twisted wire together making all the junctions.

And instead of running several big fat cables for transmission they would run 37,000 small ones

;-)

Shoddy workmanship, dodgy parts getting substituted in construction, staffed by the untrained nephews of whatever officials are running it, fly-by-night attitude to safety, no inspections, no contingency plans (you think to much!), coverups of anything and everything that goes wrong. And a nuclear meltdown if you <deleted> it up, which will be attributed to the work of a "third hand".

Yep, go right ahead and build it. Great idea. We have nuclear power too, so proud.

Edited August 10, 201114 yr by Crushdepth

Shoddy workmanship, dodgy parts getting substituted in construction, staffed by the untrained nephews of whatever officials are running it, fly-by-night attitude to safety, no inspections, no contingency plans (you think to much!), coverups of anything and everything that goes wrong. And a nuclear meltdown if you <deleted> it up, which will be attributed to the work of a "third hand".

Yep, go right ahead and build it. Great idea. We have nuclear power too, so proud.

This whole thing sounds like an April fools jokes. Come on this can not be serious.

Safety laws not ready for nuclear project

By Pongphon Sarnsamak

The Nation

Thailand is not ready to go ahead with its plan to build nuclear power plant because the government has not yet issued safety laws regulating the operation of such a plant, Energy Ministry's deputy permanent secretary Kurujit Nakornthap said.

Or just go ahead put the cart out infront of the horse and see how it goes.

Is this not how everythig operates in Thailand? Its only a nuclear power plant, how bad could it get?

Talk about give a monkey a machine gun. They cannot even insulate the electrical cables they have now without the power going off every time it rains.

Nuclear power in Thailand is like giving uranium/plutonium to the Taliban.

and a good thing they will never build one...

why not invest in something that is ample in thailand, like euh.... the sun (energy) or water (river likes to take a holliday from the banks once and a while)

The Army cant safeguard their amouries located within what supposedly are well guarded areas......what chance in Thailand does a nuke target stand against terrorists?

1000% waste of public money. There are many electricity generation alternatives available now if only the powers that be opened their eyes and minds to the 21st century. Ohhh i forgot...someone will miss out on their rretirement payments while building it.

The OP states that they are not going to proceed with Nukes so what are you talking about?. FYI Thailand's Solar Power Programme is so oversubscribed that they are going to drop the tariff "adder" that was introduced to attract investment in that area so I would say that the country's energy planning is actually a lot more advanced than you assume ( I say assume because you obviously have no knowledge of the subject) ( Sorry but it is that obvious!). Biomass Power Plant using waste from the rice milling, Palm oil and other industries are in operation in many locations and supply power to the grid under the SPP and VSPP programmes. A few Wind Power Projects are currently being studied. The government has established an office to assist Thai companies to gain the benefits available under the CDM Programme which has helped to enable Thailand to move ahead of Malaysia, Indonesia and Philppines in terms of the number of CDM registered projects ( as a % of CDM registered projects in Asia) compared to having zero projects registered in 2004/5 ( Source www.cd4cdm.org).Gas is getting difficult due to huge demand ( although PTT has recently built a big LNG Terminal which may help). Hydro is very difficult due to the environmental impact. Overall I would say that the situation in Thailand re energy planning is probably a lot more advanced than some people assume and let's be honest it would be difficult to point to any country as being an ideal role model in this area.

Do They have anything remotely resembling a safety law for anything in Thailand .

Just built a house nearly everything is two core wired ( no Earth) and got a tingle of my microwave, DVD player and yet to check washine machine. Queried the wiring safety element at the start of the job with my missus, 'what about safety certs and checks fro wiring darling ?' 'Dont know what you are talking about' , she said , tried to explain in vain. This is a woman with an MBA and working for gov't dept. Waht hope has the safety of a nuclear plant got in Thailand? Absolutely NONE.

The level of education ( yes that old chestnut again) is nowhere near good enough to operate such a thing as a nuke power station.

Safety laws not ready for nuclear project

By Pongphon Sarnsamak

The Nation

Thailand is not ready to go ahead with its plan to build nuclear power plant because the government has not yet issued safety laws regulating the operation of such a plant, Energy Ministry's deputy permanent secretary Kurujit Nakornthap said.

Or just go ahead put the cart out infront of the horse and see how it goes.

Is this not how everythig operates in Thailand? Its only a nuclear power plant, how bad could it get?

The Army cant safeguard their amouries located within what supposedly are well guarded areas......what chance in Thailand does a nuke target stand against terrorists?

1000% waste of public money. There are many electricity generation alternatives available now if only the powers that be opened their eyes and minds to the 21st century. Ohhh i forgot...someone will miss out on their rretirement payments while building it.

The OP states that they are not going to proceed with Nukes so what are you talking about?. FYI Thailand's Solar Power Programme is so oversubscribed that they are going to drop the tariff "adder" that was introduced to attract investment in that area so I would say that the country's energy planning is actually a lot more advanced than you assume ( I say assume because you obviously have no knowledge of the subject) ( Sorry but it is that obvious!). Biomass Power Plant using waste from the rice milling, Palm oil and other industries are in operation in many locations and supply power to the grid under the SPP and VSPP programmes. A few Wind Power Projects are currently being studied. The government has established an office to assist Thai companies to gain the benefits available under the CDM Programme which has helped to enable Thailand to move ahead of Malaysia, Indonesia and Philppines in terms of the number of CDM registered projects ( as a % of CDM registered projects in Asia) compared to having zero projects registered in 2004/5 ( Source www.cd4cdm.org).Gas is getting difficult due to huge demand ( although PTT has recently built a big LNG Terminal which may help). Hydro is very difficult due to the environmental impact. Overall I would say that the situation in Thailand re energy planning is probably a lot more advanced than some people assume and let's be honest it would be difficult to point to any country as being an ideal role model in this area.

Well said, but you have missed out COAL. Thailand is also a big importor of coal, which takes care of thermal power plants, and meet electricity demand of many industries such as paper mill, cement, food etc. Thailand is better off with out Nukes

Given the state electrical wiring here I bet the plant:

Would not be grounded

Have twisted wire together making all the junctions.

And instead of running several big fat cables for transmission they would run 37,000 small ones

;-)

Sorry to single you out sir but your post stands out as being one of the most idiotic posts out of many similarly bad ones.FYI Generators don't work if they are not grounded. EGAT's power generation and transmission system is built and maintained to international standards. Have you ever been to a power plant in Thailand? And last but not least big fat cables comprise lots of "little ones" they are called strands. The problem in Thailand is all of the distibution systems are run over head and hence are vulnerable to trees falling on them, rats chewing the cable insulation etc. Actually MEA in Bangkok have started trying to put distribution systems underground by building cable tunnels under some of the Klongs using tunnelling techniques to avoid digging up roads but it will take decades and huge costs before it is done.

...Well said, but you have missed out COAL. Thailand is also a big importor of coal, which takes care of thermal power plants, and meet electricity demand of many industries such as paper mill, cement, food etc. Thailand is better off with out Nukes

80% of Thailand electricity is generated from natural gas fired steam plants. Coal plants tend to problematic due to Greenpeace and other activists being able to generate large public protests against them due to the poor standards of older plants. Even new proposed coal plants with the latest low emission technology are met with a huge outcry, mostly funded by outside sources such as Greenpeace.

Thailand is more then capable of having a foreign company design and build a nuclear plant (using Thai labor). They do indeed need to have laws and regulations in place that meet international standards.

Keep in mind that China has many nuclear plants and plans on building hundreds more. That is much more scary then Thailand building one.

TH

The Army cant safeguard their amouries located within what supposedly are well guarded areas......what chance in Thailand does a nuke target stand against terrorists?

1000% waste of public money. There are many electricity generation alternatives available now if only the powers that be opened their eyes and minds to the 21st century. Ohhh i forgot...someone will miss out on their rretirement payments while building it.

The OP states that they are not going to proceed with Nukes so what are you talking about?. FYI Thailand's Solar Power Programme is so oversubscribed that they are going to drop the tariff "adder" that was introduced to attract investment in that area so I would say that the country's energy planning is actually a lot more advanced than you assume ( I say assume because you obviously have no knowledge of the subject) ( Sorry but it is that obvious!). Biomass Power Plant using waste from the rice milling, Palm oil and other industries are in operation in many locations and supply power to the grid under the SPP and VSPP programmes. A few Wind Power Projects are currently being studied. The government has established an office to assist Thai companies to gain the benefits available under the CDM Programme which has helped to enable Thailand to move ahead of Malaysia, Indonesia and Philppines in terms of the number of CDM registered projects ( as a % of CDM registered projects in Asia) compared to having zero projects registered in 2004/5 ( Source www.cd4cdm.org).Gas is getting difficult due to huge demand ( although PTT has recently built a big LNG Terminal which may help). Hydro is very difficult due to the environmental impact. Overall I would say that the situation in Thailand re energy planning is probably a lot more advanced than some people assume and let's be honest it would be difficult to point to any country as being an ideal role model in this area.

Well said, but you have missed out COAL. Thailand is also a big importor of coal, which takes care of thermal power plants, and meet electricity demand of many industries such as paper mill, cement, food etc. Thailand is better off with out Nukes

Sorry I just intended to put down a few facts rather than submit a complete paper on the Thailand energy situation but since you mention it yes Thailand does import some coal and it provides about 10% of EGAT's power requirements at the moment. The imported coal buring power plant are fairly recent and use low Sulphur coal and have FGD installed unlike the old EGAT plant in Lampang which has FGD retrofitted but burns high Sulphur Lignite. The main reason for the newer imported coal plants getting approved were related to Energy Security ( a lot of gas comes from Burma and LNG from the ME) and low costs of generation, relative stability of fuel prices etc.Unfortunately the Carbon content of coal makes it inherently dirty

It's a prosperous sign that they are not ready to build the Plant. Imagine the kind of fatalities that can result from this. They already have trouble with dealing with floods. Ff a nuclear disaster were to happen, one can wonder how much death would have occurred by the time they come up with a plan. Remember, forward thinking is still not a part of their life.

It's a prosperous sign that they are not ready to build the Plant. Imagine the kind of fatalities that can result from this. They already have trouble with dealing with floods. Ff a nuclear disaster were to happen, one can wonder how much death would have occurred by the time they come up with a plan. Remember, forward thinking is still not a part of their life.

Curious as to what your personal experience is in Thailand with the construction and operation of heavy industrial plants (Which is what a nuclear plant is). In fact, do you have any industrial construction or operation experience at all that would give you any sort of understanding that would allow you to make such a judgment?

TH

They really need tyo start at the bottom and learn how to construct drains and pavements before going on to more advanced stuff!

Given the state electrical wiring here I bet the plant:

Would not be grounded

Have twisted wire together making all the junctions.

And instead of running several big fat cables for transmission they would run 37,000 small ones

;-)

Sorry to single you out sir but your post stands out as being one of the most idiotic posts out of many similarly bad ones.FYI Generators don't work if they are not grounded. EGAT's power generation and transmission system is built and maintained to international standards. Have you ever been to a power plant in Thailand? And last but not least big fat cables comprise lots of "little ones" they are called strands. The problem in Thailand is all of the distibution systems are run over head and hence are vulnerable to trees falling on them, rats chewing the cable insulation etc. Actually MEA in Bangkok have started trying to put distribution systems underground by building cable tunnels under some of the Klongs using tunnelling techniques to avoid digging up roads but it will take decades and huge costs before it is done.

You see that little smiley face? That indicates humour.

It's a prosperous sign that they are not ready to build the Plant. Imagine the kind of fatalities that can result from this. They already have trouble with dealing with floods. Ff a nuclear disaster were to happen, one can wonder how much death would have occurred by the time they come up with a plan. Remember, forward thinking is still not a part of their life.

Curious as to what your personal experience is in Thailand with the construction and operation of heavy industrial plants (Which is what a nuclear plant is). In fact, do you have any industrial construction or operation experience at all that would give you any sort of understanding that would allow you to make such a judgment?

TH

TH.... as you know this topic comes up again and from the geriatric's and tree huggers, not even worth wasting your breath with them, as they havent got a clue about what they are talking about, whether nuclear or heavy industry.... ...The amusing thing is...this article states Thailand is not ready for nuclear and the esteemed members are still up in arms....go figure.....

To the matter at hand, Some months back the IAEC (for our geriatics/treehuggers - International Atomic Energy Commission) which oversee's/gives blessing to commerical nuclear power programs stated publicly that they believed Thailand was not ready for commerical nuclear power and this was pre-Japan....now without a blessing from the IAEC, Any Thai aspirations to building anything will not go ahead, as IAEC member countries cannot supply technology/fuel without the IAEC blessing, and before someone suggests they could do design/build it themselves...possibly they could given 20-30 years...but where would they get the fuel ?

Anyone believing Thailand should go nuclear would do well to take a look at the Fukushima Nuclear Disaster thread on Thaivisa.

Lies, deceit, obfuscation, cover ups, bribery, deaths, conflicts of interest, radioactive fallout in the farms, streets and food chain, quarter-trillion dollars in cost - its all there - all 130+ pages of it!

And lets not forget, this is from an advanced country with the third biggest economy in the world.

Edited August 10, 201114 yr by Chopperboy

Do you really need to work on a construction site to understand the prevailing attitude to safety, maintenance and disaster preparedness? I think not.

Given the state electrical wiring here I bet the plant:

Would not be grounded

Have twisted wire together making all the junctions.

And instead of running several big fat cables for transmission they would run 37,000 small ones

;-)

Sorry to single you out sir but your post stands out as being one of the most idiotic posts out of many similarly bad ones.FYI Generators don't work if they are not grounded. EGAT's power generation and transmission system is built and maintained to international standards. Have you ever been to a power plant in Thailand? And last but not least big fat cables comprise lots of "little ones" they are called strands. The problem in Thailand is all of the distibution systems are run over head and hence are vulnerable to trees falling on them, rats chewing the cable insulation etc. Actually MEA in Bangkok have started trying to put distribution systems underground by building cable tunnels under some of the Klongs using tunnelling techniques to avoid digging up roads but it will take decades and huge costs before it is done.

You see that little smiley face? That indicates humour.

Ha ha. Thanks for pointing that out . I might get the hang of this posting lark when I get up to 4000+ posts but in the mean time I rededicate my post to all those posts that didn't have a smiley face at the end:-)

Sorry to single you out sir but your post stands out as being one of the most idiotic posts out of many similarly bad ones.FYI Generators don't work if they are not grounded. EGAT's power generation and transmission system is built and maintained to international standards. Have you ever been to a power plant in Thailand? And last but not least big fat cables comprise lots of "little ones" they are called strands. The problem in Thailand is all of the distibution systems are run over head and hence are vulnerable to trees falling on them, rats chewing the cable insulation etc. Actually MEA in Bangkok have started trying to put distribution systems underground by building cable tunnels under some of the Klongs using tunnelling techniques to avoid digging up roads but it will take decades and huge costs before it is done.

First, I'd like to say thanks for the good info you've provided above re Thailand's energy activities... much appreciated...

But, as to your various responses to the posts above, you're answering them literally, while the various posters were making figurative statements all aiming to the same overarching point:

In many facets of society, Thailand has proven that it has great difficulty in properly executing major projects without significant flaws problems -- which could prove critical and potentially lethal if put in the context of a nuclear power plant.

Those have included, as some have mentioned above, endemic corruption leading to flawed planning and bidding processes; shoddy workmanship and improperly substituted parts/materials; the proven inability of government to conduct an impartial, scientifically credible environmental impact review; lack of a meaningful regulatory and environmental safety system, the proven inability of government agencies to act in the public's interest as opposed to their own political or economic interests, and more and more...

I could add a long list of illustrative examples, but some might include:

--the failure to open the On Nut Skytrain extension years beyond its scheduled date because of mismanagement

--the flawed construction of the Suvarnabhumi Airport and its crumbling runways.

--the emerging design and operational problems with the Airport Rail Link line.

--the Santika night club fire and what it showed about the lack of enforcement of safety regulations.

--the past episodes where people were injured and killed by the water slide collapse at the water park in Bangkok

--aviation safety episodes like the dual crash of F-16 fighters, the three recent Army helicopter crashes and the long-running problems with Orient Thai airline.

and more and more and more...

It's all of those kinds of examples and the others like them that make many people skeptical about Thailand's ability to safely operate a nuclear power plant.

In many facets of society, Thailand has proven that it has great difficulty in properly executing major projects without significant flaws problems -- which could prove critical and potentially lethal if put in the context of a nuclear power plant.

Those have included, as some have mentioned above, endemic corruption leading to flawed planning and bidding processes; shoddy workmanship and improperly substituted parts/materials; the proven inability of government to conduct an impartial, scientifically credible environmental impact review; lack of a meaningful regulatory and environmental safety system, the proven inability of government agencies to act in the public's interest as opposed to their own political or economic interests, and more and more...

I could add a long list of illustrative examples, but some might include:

--the failure to open the On Nut Skytrain extension years beyond its scheduled date because of mismanagement

--the flawed construction of the Suvarnabhumi Airport and its crumbling runways.

--the emerging design and operational problems with the Airport Rail Link line.

--the Santika night club fire and what it showed about the lack of enforcement of safety regulations.

--the past episodes where people were injured and killed by the water slide collapse at the water park in Bangkok

--aviation safety episodes like the dual crash of F-16 fighters, the three recent Army helicopter crashes and the long-running problems with Orient Thai airline.

and more and more and more...

It's all of those kinds of examples and the others like them that make many people skeptical about Thailand's ability to safely operate a nuclear power plant.

So what you are suggesting is things like this only happen in Thailand ?.......Nowhere in the Europe, "Land of the free" or anywhere else in the "Western world" has there been a serious accident/fire/mismangement/corrution reported ?....... .....WOW you must live in a different reality to me, so you obviously dont remember the offshore fire/explosion/fatalities occuring in the "Land O the free" (Gulf of Mexico) not more than a few months ago....and it may interest you to know there was not a Thai national involved in this...

Do you really need to work on a construction site to understand the prevailing attitude to safety, maintenance and disaster preparedness? I think not.

It certainly helps.....its gives a more rounded perseptive on things, than people making comments while sitting on a bar stool trying to sound intelligent...