Mr T From Humble Background?

[plachon]

Today I had a chat, as I normally do, with the nice wee lady who pedals round town flogging Dutch Mill drinking yohghurt (one slurp and their gone!).

Just general chit-chatting and somehow we got on to Mr T the PM. She said she admired the guy, coz he came from a poor background, proving that anyone can make it to the top in Thailand. I begged to differ politely, but she insisted he came from a poor family, and his Mum sold coffee.

Well, not wanting to totally ruin her rags-to-riches image of the man, I said "the lad's done well, then" and knocked back my yoghurt, but couldn't help wondering today if this is a common perception amongst ordinary Thais, who probably don't ever read the paper's or listen to any news outside the local telly?

I thought then it might be quite instructive to kindly request other curious TV members to ask their wives, girlfriend's, boyfriend's, hubbies, next-door neighbour, etc., what they think is Mr T's background? ie.. Is he from a rich, poor or middling family?

Interested to hear what the general concensus is?

[britmaveric]

My gf thinks fearless leader is a crook and can't believe anyone voted for him. I've discussed this with a few other thai(s) all similar views. I know someone voted for him, but the question is who?

[Khun Ngo]

As far as i know he was really not "rich" when he was younger, as he was an "ordinary"

policeman. He studied, however, in the US. Don't know if his mum paid for that or if his

police activities made it possible for him.

I'm sure somebody from the north who's living close to his old village will know more.

Edited October 28, 2005 by Khun Ngo

[The Gentleman Scamp]

The wife of ex TV member 'He-who-must-not-be-named' once said over a bowl of burnt fish that she liked and respected both Thax and Bush because 'they are rich man'.

[Heng]

I'd wager that he has had "less" (being about $4 million USD in debt at one point) than many folks here on this board. Yes, the Shinawatras in CM have been in business for awhile but only at about the same level as about a hundred thousand other merchant families in the LOS. I think the highlights are something like... came back from the US with a "grand" total of 2 million Baht in capital (mostly in a used Mercedes automobile), did his police duty for about 10-15 years or less in rather "nobody" assignments, retired from the force and founded he own company (think office staff about the size of your avg. Pantip Plaza computer company), was at one time 100 million+ Baht in debt in the early Shinawatra Computer years: mostly because of some medium sized condominium project (aside: don't ya just love local business diversification? you invest in telecoms and suddenly you're exposed to real estate market risk) , turned that around in a few years (mostly with the wife's financial wizardry), and then hit windfall with the Thaicom concession (which several influential locals passed up back then). The rest is gravy.

[Nam Kao]

(one slurp and their gone!).

You sure you werent on Soi Cowboy?

[Heng]

Myself I prefer Soi ........

edited by Heng Security Services

Edited October 28, 2005 by Heng

[muldoon]

he also has a Ph.D. from Sam Houston University in Texas.I doubt most of the idiots who throw petty insults at him even went to university.

[Johpa]

The Shinawats must have had some better than average connections dating back to the 1960s. At that time an academic employee from USAID, maybe as I read the book over 25 years ago, wrote about the prospects of developing such things as a "silk village" and "umbrella village" out towards the east of the city. Now perhaps by chance this guy hung out with the Shinawat family that gave him these ideas or perhaps the Shinawat family was well placed to receive the loans that were used to develop these ideas. Either way, there were connections well beyond ordinary means.

Toxin's brilliance was to see the profit potential of telecommunications and grabbed the monopoly before any of his peers, busy with traditional agricultural monopolies, could grab it. But he had to have great connections to hold on to the monopoly. Clearly his police posting, non-descript as it may appear outwardly, allowed for some serious capital accumlation and associated accumulation of power. He was not able to manipulate a coup d'etat in a neighboring state in the 1980s due to recent wealth.

[chownah]

Just went out and read 4 or 5 biograpies and he clearly was born into a rich and socially active family. Everything in his life seems to point to someone from a rich and well connected family. In the 1970' if you could afford to send a family member to the US for 4 years to get two advanced degrees it meant that you were rich and well connected. His family had several businesses (that is plural) which included silk and entertainment. From what I have read it seems that anyone who has read about his life and thinks that his family was anything but rich is.....naive.

I asked my wife about his family and at first she said that they weren't rich and they weren't poor. So I asked her to compare what she thought to some local people. I suggested a local family and she said she thought that the Shinawatras had more money. I asked her if the local family was rich and she said yes. I asked her if the local family was rich then didn't this mean that the Shinawatras were rich....she was resistant to this but when I pointed out that how could they afford to send him to the US she whole heartedly agreed that back then only very rich people could afford to send a child to live in the US and attend university.

[OxfordWill]

Most taxi drivers I have asked about Mr. T seem to say that his great skill is to talk so sweetly as to encourage belief but that his actions are sometimes not tallying entirely with his words. Other than that he is still thought of as the best of a bad bunch.

I asked the girlfriend but she said it's not interesting and went back to her conversation about hair styles with her best friend.

[johnnyk]

Chinese Thai with connections outsiders can never know.

A bright, presentable young man with the potential to be the political front man for the owners of Thailand.

The potential has been realized.

[xbusman]

What I know from my experience.

Having worked with many people like Thaksin, I will guarantee a few things (99% anyway).

1. He will be a very Charismatic man with a "common" touch. Everyone who comes into contact with him will really, really like him unless they have a very strong character and a specific agenda not to like him.

2. When presented with a problem, particularly an insolvable dilemma between factions, he will have an uncanny ability to see the crux of the matter instantly and find a win-win solution that both parties can live with.

3. He will have a keen eye for reality, not perception or pipe dream. Does not mean he will act or speak in strict regard with reality, means he will know the score in the real world.

4. There is a very very strong probability that he will be devoted to his wife and that they will stay together for their entire life. They will be a team of total trust and work as a pair.

Now, an interesting story. Played golf in a tournament a few years back with a very wealthy retired expat who was quite proud of his accomplishments in Thailand, got to hear each of them during the eighteen holes. I take that stuff with a grain of salt, lots of folks like to talk about their successes but not too many people are successful.... Anyway, we were talking about getting Thai citizenship and this guy turns out not only to be a Thai citizen but to have a Thai diplomatic passport. Retired at about fifty, very wealthy, full honorary thai citizenship. He had the full story of Kuhn Thaksin cornered the telecom market with no money to speak of. It was typically Thailand, filled with deceit, corruption, back rooms, and brilliant manuvering (come to think of it, typical business in any capitalist market).

If you ever see any great fortune, anywhere in the world, you can safely assume that there are many ugly skeletons in the closet somewhere. Its a brutal and tough path, lots of people trying to get through a small door leaving a lot of dead bodies behind. Having seen it up close, its not pretty.

I constantly ask Thai people how they feel about Kuhn Thaksin and what they know about him. Its Thailand and the Thaksin PR machine gives everyone enough to create their own myth to fit their world. What they believe gives me insight to how they think, the reason I ask. Also, being Thailand, I am sure they feel about him the way they think I want to feel about him so you can never be too sure.

Great subject. Very interesting.

[Heng]

In the 1970' if you could afford to send a family member to the US for 4 years to get two advanced degrees it meant that you were rich and well connected.  His family had several businesses (that is plural) which included silk and entertainment. 

Not at all. All it took was a $400 Air Siam ticket and a few thousand cash. All my folks had on one side was a 3 story shophouse (and shop) in Ban Moh (mom's side) and side by side 2 story shophouses in Klong Ton (on my dad's side). Several went stateside to school (and worked their way through), one went to Germany, the rest finished locally.

If you're going to compare to those out in the stix, the guy who sells coconut water in front of my grandparent's building for 15 Baht a cup is "rich." He really cleans up in the summer (I think the maid counted out something like 160 cups a day). We charge him 100 Baht a day rent I believe, to park his cart there. 20 years down the line, I guarantee there will be idiots saying (about him or his kids)... that coconut water guy was connected, how else could anyone be so well off?

Edited October 29, 2005 by Heng

[taxexile]

thaksin graduated from the police academy in 1973 , top of his class of 93 other students.

he then spent 6 months on border patrol duties.

then he took the scholarship granted for his top of the class graduation to study criminal justice at eastern kentucky university.

he returned to thailand in 1975 , just as his father had been re elected mp for chiang mai.

thaksin was assigned as a police guard to the then prime ministers (kukrit) office , but he worked more as a secretary , he wrote speeches and negotiated between ministers and student activists.

he also acted as a bagman for the delivery of payments from the governments secret fund to ensure coalition parties voted the right way.

after the government eventually fell thaksin was assigned to a police station in bangkok.

he married pojaman in 1976 , she was from a well connected family , her father was the police commander for bangkok south.

thaksin tangled with superiors at the police station who were runnibg illegal rackets and his father in law had to intervene , and this prompted him to take a civil service commission scholarship for a doctoeate in criminal justice at sam houston u. in texas.

he returned to thailand in 1978 and put in charge of the police office of planning.

to supplement his income he opened a silk shop with his wife in the trocadero hotel. sales were abysmal and he had to close within a month.

then he tried to distribute films , this also failed.

then he bought an old cinema in bangkok , this failed and he tore down the cinema and built apartments , this also failed , he had to sell it at a loss.

he was now 200m baht in debt.

in 1981 he started a business leasing ibm computers to government offices including the railways and chula university , slowly the business took off but lost 19million baht when the government devalued the baht in 1984 , he was bailed out by the thai military bank.

in 1986 he drafted a plan for installing computers in the police department and then won the bid to implement his own plan , and the rest is history.

sorry , that tells you nothing about his family background though.

Edited October 29, 2005 by taxexile

[chownah]

Taxexile said, "he also acted as a bagman for the delivery of payments from the governments secret fund to ensure coalition parties voted the right way."

Where did you find this juicy bit of information?

[taxexile]

thaksin..." i was used for collecting money from some big army figures , borrowing from certain ministers , and distributing the money to mp's and ministers whose "hand" or vote the government needed"

from ariwat2003 , p103

this passage was part of the original magazine version of thaksins autobiography , but was cut out of the book version.

i can recommend "thaksin , the business of politics in thailand" by phongpaichit and baker , for the story of thaksin , from the arrival of his great grandfather in thailand up to the events of may last year.

its very very readable for a book about politics.

it doesnt glorify him

love him or hate him , he is an incredible character

[TokyoT]

Just asked my wife – she said he came from a poor family. I asked how she knew this, she said – “Because Toxin said he did”. So that settles it – Toxin said he came from a poor family and we all know he never lies.

[boppia]

Isn't there some story about Thaksin screwing over his US business partner? They went to court over it. Seems like there is a lot missing from this topic. There must be some sites on the Net with info on Mr. T

[xbusman]

The story I got from a eyewitness to the event was that a US phone company sold used (second generation) mobile phone infrastructure technology to Thaksins tiny company for about 40 million. The division head here made the monumental mistake of releasing the equipment before it was paid for and subsequently never collected. The gentleman responsible for the release was forced to retire immediately and is living extremely comfortably as a Thai citizen in punishment.

[Ladphrao]

Interesting topic, but why is there such interest on finding dirt on Dr. Thaksin amongst the ex-pat community?

I’m no big fan of the current PM myself, but then again I can’t see that he is any worse than the bozos who came before. The economy has performed “OK” under his reign, true the trouble in the South has escalated during his time, but I suspect the trouble is really mostly inspired by world-wide Islamic extremism rather than decisions made by the Thai government, although I doubt there is a direct connection with Bin Laden or the like, and I have my doubts that anyone else would be able to significantly do better. I don’t think anyone could get to the top of Thai business and politics without making enemies and crossing some people’s ethical line, but I can’t see where that is substantially different than in other countries.

There seems to be near unanimous consensuses amongst the ex-pat community here in Thailand that Dr. Thaksin is the worst thing to ever happen to Thailand. Has he done something to antagonize the ex-pat community I am too thick to understand or too far out of the loop to see?

As far as being rich, seems like I heard the PM once claimed his wife worked at KFC while he was studying in Texas to make ends meet. Doesn’t sound like the kind of thing someone from a really rich family would do, but then again it might just be a story.

One of my professors (He only taught a single class, while waiting to see which way the wind was going to blow during Thaksin’s tax difficulties) while doing my MBA was Thaksin’s right hand business man (Who is also the current Minister of Commerce). He told us quite a bit of inside information, unfortunately I didn’t write any of it down and it wasn’t really interesting enough to remember. Obviously he didn’t say anything really negative about the PM but I do remember some references about how going into real estate was a big mistake.

He is obviously a politician and knows what he needs to say and what symbolic programs to propose (30 baht health care, OTOP, and his other populist programs) to keep the poor rural folk who make up the bulk of the voting population satisfied while not forgetting the fundamentals that are needed to keep the economy humming, while also realizing that one has to work within the system which includes plenty of what we from the West refer to as corruption. Doesn’t seem like he has made too many steps to stamp out corruption but then again neither did the previous government.

Dr. Thaksin sure knows how to look out for No. 1 and some of his attempts to stifle criticism leave a sour taste in one’s mouth, but if one steps back and looks at the big picture, he probably gets a C+ or B for the overall performance of the country under his leadership.

Just my 2 satang worth. But then again, what does Dr. Thaksin care what we farangs think, we can’t vote here. Whining about Thaksin by farangs probably makes him more popular with the locals, in much the same way as European Bush-bashing helped Bush to win the last election in the States. The thought was, if the French and Germans hate him so much, he must be doing something right.

oh, my old lady thinks he is OK because he is already rich and doesn't need to steal. She voted for him, but is kind of lukewarm.

Cheers

Edited October 29, 2005 by Ladphrao

[chownah]

Interesting topic, but why is there such interest on finding dirt on Dr. Thaksin amongst the ex-pat community?

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oh, my old lady thinks he is OK because he is already rich and doesn't need to steal. She voted for him, but is kind of lukewarm.

Cheers

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Frankly there hasn't really been much attempt in this topic to find dirt on Thaksin. I think that the posts have all been pretty much on topic except for yours. Maybe you are posting in the wrong thread.....

Oh, you are a newbie....I just came back to edit this post cause I just noticed you've only got 4 posts. It is best if you read the title and the description of a topic and then read at least the first post carefully so that you understand what the topic of discussion is.....then try to post something that is related to the topic. I feel that you have missed the mark on your post....but you are new here so this sort of thing happens alot with new posters....better luck in the future.

Edited October 29, 2005 by chownah

[plachon]

So far, only 4 people actually got the gist of my post. I was not so much asking "do you think he's rich?", but rather what do your better halves think? The reply of the Dutch Mill lady, got me thinking that maybe there's some misinformation swilling around in the mass media out there ("an unheard event", I hear you say) to the effect that Mr T comes from a humble background, to perhaps boost his appeal to the voting masses? The "son of a coffee shop owner", made me even more suspicious that maybe he's taken on the persona of Chuan, who's mother I think actually did serve coffee to the citizens of Trang for many years.

Sample size is still too small to be conclusive one way or t'other. Tally so far seems to be Rich ("semi or kind of") - 2; Poor - 1; Not sure ("so let's get back to hairstyles, before OxWill goes all serious on us") - 1.

Please, more respondents to get a more stat sig sample size.

PS Lardphrao, the idea of the thread is not to dig dirt, but to find out ordinary Thai people's (i.e. not Matichon readers) perceptions of his background.

[sbk]

So far, only 4 people actually got the gist of my post. I was not so much asking "do you think he's rich?", but rather what do your better halves think? The reply of the Dutch Mill lady, got me thinking that maybe there's some misinformation swilling around in the mass media out there ("an unheard event", I hear you say) to the effect that Mr T comes from a humble background, to perhaps boost his appeal to the voting masses? The "son of a coffee shop owner", made me even more suspicious that maybe he's taken on the persona of Chuan, who's mother I think actually did serve coffee to the citizens of Trang for many years. 

Sample size is still too small to be conclusive one way or t'other. Tally so far seems to be Rich ("semi or kind of") - 2; Poor - 1; Not sure ("so let's get back to hairstyles, before OxWill goes all serious on us") - 1. 

Please, more respondents to get a more stat sig sample size. 

PS Lardphrao, the idea of the thread is not to dig dirt, but to find out ordinary Thai people's (i.e.  not Matichon readers) perceptions of his background.

OK, asked hubby your question. "I don't know" was his answer. He is not a Taksin fan but hasn't heard one way or the other if he comes from a poor family or a rich one. BUT he did say the wifes family was quite rich and it was her father that was the Chiang Mai MP, not his as Tax states:

he returned to thailand in 1975 , just as his father had been re elected mp for chiang mai.

[taxexile]

BUT he did say the wifes family was quite rich and it was her father that was the Chiang Mai MP, not his as Tax states:

my source is the book that i referred to.

thaksins father was chiang mai mp and his wifes father (samoe damaphong)was a big cheese in the police , who when he retired was the deputy director general.

[sbk]

Well, there you go, that just shows how effective he has been at hiding the truth then.

[sierra01]

The topic is interesting, a lot of things about Mr T I didn’t know. I decided to ask my TG what she thought of him and what his beginnings were, she only seems to know a somewhat sanitised version of his family and beginnings, but she did say a couple of things that others might like to comment on. He didn’t have air con in his (much) younger days and still doesn’t have it today, and his wife cuts his hair! I don’t know about the air con thing but looking at his barnet that bit might be true, a sort of semi pudding basin cut!

[RDN]

...my old lady thinks he is OK because he is already rich and doesn't need to steal....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Similar to what my ex g/f said ages ago: "He's rich, he doesn't need more money and so can't be corrupt."

I did point out that he could use his money to corrupt others, but by then she was watching a Thai TV soap showing a couple screaming at each other followed by the man whacking the woman, so my moment of communication had passed...

[Neeranam]

I asked my wife adn she said that Toxin's grandmother was very rich. She had hundreds of rai of coffee plantation, mangoes and other fruits.

She said it all &lt;deleted&gt; that he used to be a poor coffee vendor.

[OxfordWill]

Just asked a few friends..the general consensus was that he was born into money and definitely didnt have a poor upbringing...?? Well, I asked for why they thought this and they replied it was common knowledge.