Nokia Dieing Slowly

[Crushdepth]

Guys phone is a phone, it is less important than your wife or g/f or even your car. Why do you was your time with it. I use Nokia and HTC, IPhone, Blackberry...just not care. I need to call, message, listen to music and do some photoshots. Every mobile for 5000 - 10000 Baht can do this today, so why pay for brands, cool factors etc.? Sometimes it is good to be adult.

Some adults think internet services are useful :-) Having a searchable map of Thailand in your pocket is pretty dam_n handy, and I just love the places function (what restaurants are around here?). So is not having to lug a laptop around town most of the time, being able to access files from my home or work machines on the road if I need to. Audio books and podcasts have revolutionised my commuting and turned it into a productive educational experience. Keeping track of the stock market just got a lot easier too. I could rant for half an hour but you get the idea. It's a not just a phone, its a computer.

[GreenSnapper]

The Motofone is still a strong runner: http://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_motofone_f3-1794.php

Not sure, though, if a Thai girl would be impressed....

[FarangBuddha]

Guys phone is a phone, it is less important than your wife or g/f or even your car. Why do you was your time with it. I use Nokia and HTC, IPhone, Blackberry...just not care. I need to call, message, listen to music and do some photoshots. Every mobile for 5000 - 10000 Baht can do this today, so why pay for brands, cool factors etc.? Sometimes it is good to be adult.

Some adults think internet services are useful :-) Having a searchable map of Thailand in your pocket is pretty dam_n handy, and I just love the places function (what restaurants are around here?). So is not having to lug a laptop around town most of the time, being able to access files from my home or work machines on the road if I need to. Audio books and podcasts have revolutionised my commuting and turned it into a productive educational experience. Keeping track of the stock market just got a lot easier too. I could rant for half an hour but you get the idea. It's a not just a phone, its a computer.

Not to mention streaming audio and video news sources like Al Jazera, BBC, NPR and many more; and streaming radio from around the world on Sticher Radio App. All these services are free of course!

And Google Maps...great. Had to go to wedding in some tiny sub-village a couple hours outside Khon Keon and it gave me turn by turn directions from Pattaya. Also marked the place in Maps and was able to find it at nite on subsequent days. A real lifesaver.

Edited August 29, 2011 by FarangBuddha

[moo9]

Guys phone is a phone, it is less important than your wife or g/f or even your car.

I personally tend to agree with the above comment, and handle my phone affairs accordingly... But don't try to sell that idea to my Thai wife... She'd say just the opposite. .

She keeps bugging me for a Samsung Galaxy S2.... or whatever it's called... the phone... not the tablet...for about 18,000 baht.... And I keep telling her, "ya, but for 18,000 baht, what exactly is that phone going to do that your (already very nice) current phone doesn't do?" She has no clue....

In case she will give you a few more nights out, you might consider the investment lol

[moo9]

Guys phone is a phone, it is less important than your wife or g/f or even your car. Why do you was your time with it. I use Nokia and HTC, IPhone, Blackberry...just not care. I need to call, message, listen to music and do some photoshots. Every mobile for 5000 - 10000 Baht can do this today, so why pay for brands, cool factors etc.? Sometimes it is good to be adult.

Some adults think internet services are useful :-) Having a searchable map of Thailand in your pocket is pretty dam_n handy, and I just love the places function (what restaurants are around here?). So is not having to lug a laptop around town most of the time, being able to access files from my home or work machines on the road if I need to. Audio books and podcasts have revolutionised my commuting and turned it into a productive educational experience. Keeping track of the stock market just got a lot easier too. I could rant for half an hour but you get the idea. It's a not just a phone, its a computer.

.

Maps are standard on almost any phone today Nokia comes even with life long free navigation which is imho a good piece of software. You can download worldwide maps for free as well!

Podcasts, audio books? I rarely have time to listen to it when I am on the move, unfortunately. And again, to listen to this, you do not need a 18,000 or 25,000 Bht machine :-)

[FarangBuddha]

Maps are standard on almost any phone today Nokia comes even with life long free navigation which is imho a good piece of software. You can download worldwide maps for free as well!

Podcasts, audio books? I rarely have time to listen to it when I am on the move, unfortunately. And again, to listen to this, you do not need a 18,000 or 25,000 Bht machine :-)

Agreed...there are many capable Android phones (but not Apple iPhones) that do what my more expensive Desire model does that sell for 8-10k. The higher priced models are favored by some for their larger and superior screens, faster processors, and more memory.

As to not needing a smartphone for listening to audiobooks or podcasts, such is true...but having a full-function smartphone allows me to leave the iPod, transistor radio, notebook computer, Kindle Reader, Garmen navigation unit, pen and notepad, camera, etc. in the drawer at home and just carry the phone in my pocket

Edited August 30, 2011 by FarangBuddha

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Google (GOOG), Apple (AAPL) Widen Gap as Top U.S. Smartphone OSs in July

Data from market-research firm comScore (Nasdaq: SCOR) Tuesday showed Research In Motion (Nasdaq: RIMM) is continuing to fall, while Apple (Nasdaq: AAPL) is more than happy to pick up the pieces.

Samsung has retained it's grip atop the list of most popular OEMs in the U.S. for the three-months ended July 2011. Samsung gained 1 point to 25.5 percent.

Otherwise, the remaining players stay the same: LG was flat with a 20.9 percent market share, Motorola (NYSE: MMI) dropped 1.5 points to 14.1 percent, Apple gained 1.2 points to 9.8 percent, and RIM lost 0.6 points to 7.6 percent.

Owners of smartphones in the U.S. rose 10 percent to 82.2 million in the three-months ending July 2011. Out of the top five mobile platforms in the U.S., only two showed growth for the period ended in July.

Google's (Nasdaq: GOOG) Android gained 5.4 points for a 41.8 percent market share, while Apple's iOS rose 1 point to 27 percent.

RIM saw a 4 point drop to 21.7 percent, Microsoft (Nasdaq: MSFT) fell 1 point to 5.7 percent, and Nokia's (NYSE: NOK) Symbian lost 0.4 points to 1.9 percent.

Apple and Google continue widening the gap from rivals, while RIM is struggling to stem the bleeding it has been dealing with ever since early 2010.

[GreenSnapper]

Google (GOOG), Apple (AAPL) Widen Gap as Top U.S. Smartphone OSs in July

These are only US numbers. Nokia never had any important market share in the US.

You can see the worldwide sales in smartphones here:

http://www.bgr.com/2011/08/11/gartner-smartphones-q2-2011/

Nokia being the number one company with a 22.8% market share.

Which shows quite clearly the high degree of BS when people say "Nokia is dead"

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I wasn't trying to make any point or argument... Just providing the latest U.S. market info for information sake...

But yes, earlier in this thread as well, I posted data showing Nokia, while slipping, remains the largest mobile phone provider in the world..

It seems Gartner is saying, without documenting it, that Nokia also led in smart phone sales by vendor for the most recent quarter, but that was an anomaly based on extensive price cutting and inventory clearance of their Symbian models.

Edited September 1, 2011 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[lomatopo]

I was being honest and sincere when I said I cannot recall seeing anyone here (Metro-Bangkok) with a Nokia smartphone in public in the last 3 years.

The Nokia N8 local sales figures came from a few knowledgeable sounding posts on some Thai mobile phone forums. These were initial end-user sales at the launch price of 16,550 baht. The channel obviously bought up several thousands of units. Now that the local price has dropped to 11,000 more units are moving to end-users. Distributors do not want to get left with product. Some are claiming they got the N8 for 8,900 baht from motivated distributors hoping to cut their losses; this happens near the end of the month.

No one has said Nokia is dead. The subject of this thread is that Nokia is dying. Some, including me, have said Symbian is dead.

The Gartner numbers referenced/linked above are telling.

Nokia 2Q2010 units 111,473

Nokia 2Q2011 units 97,869

A 12.2% decline QoQ.

Nokia 2Q201 Market Share 30.3 %

Nokia 2Q2011 Market Share 22.8 %

A 24.7% decline QoQ.

Symbian 2Q2010 Market Share 40.9 %

Symbian 2Q2011 Market Share 22.1 %

A 46% decline QoQ.

Finally, 2Q2011 financial results were shockingly disappointing.

An operating LOSS of 487 million Euros.

You do understand that they won't be able to make this up on volume, right?

If these numbers aren't indicative of a dying company I'm not sure what might be? Oh, and this is in a growing worldwide market.

edited to add: Nokia used to have the top market share in the U.S. (maybe 30-ish % ca. 2001-2003), so not sure where the idea that "...Nokia never had any important market share in the US" came from? Somebody's bum? Just 3 years ago they had 20 %, although now that statement might be true as they now have low single digit market share in the U.S.

Edited September 2, 2011 by lomatopo

[GreenSnapper]

I was being honest and sincere when I said I cannot recall seeing anyone here (Metro-Bangkok) with a Nokia smartphone in public in the last 3 years.

To add some more anecdotal evidence: Bargirls have either a Blackberry or an iPhone. Nothing else!

A clear sign that Nokia, Samsung, HTC and LG are dying.....

[lomatopo]

Samsung, HTC, LG are growing, launching new products (including Windows phones in the case of HTC!), increasing the number of units they sell each quarter, increasing revenue and earnings, increasing market share, as is AAPL. RIMM is hanging on.

Blackberries are popular here for two reasons: the incredibly attractive service plans which allow for unlimited chat, email, voice-messaging (store/forward), social networking (and the data associated with those activities), and the keyboard.

[Crushdepth]

Samsung, HTC, LG are growing, launching new products (including Windows phones in the case of HTC!), increasing the number of units they sell each quarter, increasing revenue and earnings, increasing market share, as is AAPL. RIMM is hanging on.

Blackberries are popular here for two reasons: the incredibly attractive service plans which allow for unlimited chat, email, voice-messaging (store/forward), social networking (and the data associated with those activities), and the keyboard.

Blackberries are dying - not in Thailand, but RIM is starting to seriously struggle. Their profit is going down not up. Blackberries were cool until big touchscreens and apps came along, now they just look medieval. Selling their security down the river to governments with shitty human rights records didn't help them either (personally I'd rather crawl over broken glass than deal with a company that does that).

RIM basically has to either start making a decent touchscreen phone (meaning they need to use a less sucky OS developed by someone else) or accept a new position in the market as a "crumb snatcher".

Edited September 3, 2011 by Crushdepth

[FarangBuddha]

Samsung, HTC, LG are growing, launching new products (including Windows phones in the case of HTC!), increasing the number of units they sell each quarter, increasing revenue and earnings, increasing market share, as is AAPL. RIMM is hanging on.

Blackberries are popular here for two reasons: the incredibly attractive service plans which allow for unlimited chat, email, voice-messaging (store/forward), social networking (and the data associated with those activities), and the keyboard.

Agree...Samsung, HTC (and now Motorola Mobility) will be the "Apples" of the Android eco-system and Apple will have continued success with their iOS system. Win Phone 7 (or 8,9, whatever) and RIM are dying.

Edited September 3, 2011 by FarangBuddha

[MJo]

The Nokia N8 local sales figures came from a few knowledgeable sounding posts on some Thai mobile phone forums.

This is where you "analysts" base your analysis on? Opinions from open internet forums and google news article snips ?

Hell if it's that easy to be an analyst i could probably run one of these multinational investment banks myself.

[MJo]

Samsung, HTC, LG are growing, launching new products (including Windows phones in the case of HTC!), increasing the number of units they sell each quarter, increasing revenue and earnings, increasing market share, as is AAPL. RIMM is hanging on.

Blackberries are popular here for two reasons: the incredibly attractive service plans which allow for unlimited chat, email, voice-messaging (store/forward), social networking (and the data associated with those activities), and the keyboard.

Agree...Samsung, HTC (and now Motorola Mobility) will be the "Apples" of the Android eco-system and Apple will have continued success with their iOS system. Win Phone 7 (or 8,9, whatever) and RIM are dying.

Always remember "past profits are not guarantee of future profits". In mobile industry it's quite opposite. Nokia had it's run with Symbian and RIM with BB's. At the moment Android and iOS are having theirs but it wont last forever either.

Who still remembers first Android phones few years back? It took years for Android to gain real market share. Same will go for WM, remember, it's only ver 1.2 we are seeing with this mango version.

People are already claiming WM and Nokia to be dying when they have not even been born yet.

[GreenSnapper]

The Nokia N8 local sales figures came from a few knowledgeable sounding posts on some Thai mobile phone forums.

This is where you "analysts" base your analysis on? Opinions from open internet forums and google news article snips ?

Hell if it's that easy to be an analyst i could probably run one of these multinational investment banks myself.

I'm afraid, a lot of "analysts" base their opinion on that sort of "research"

I remember in the early 90s, before the internet boom has started, leading analysts claimed "Unix is dead". Soon later web servers, almost all based on Unix, started the current boom, Linux (Unix derivative) made its first steps and so on - up to Android, iOS, Mac OS - all based on Unix.

Therefore, let the "XX is dead" analysts do their job and we all smile.

[lomatopo]

The Nokia N8 local sales figures came from a few knowledgeable sounding posts on some Thai mobile phone forums.

This is where you "analysts" base your analysis on? Opinions from open internet forums and google news article snips ?

Hell if it's that easy to be an analyst i could probably run one of these multinational investment banks myself.

I never claimed to be an analyst, or an "analyst"? I'm not sure what telecomms industry analysts like IDC and Gartner have to do with "multinational investment banks"? Whatever are you prattling on about?

I mean if you have some positive news about Nokia please post it, or share your insight. Feel free to sample opinions from open internet forums (that's what this is, by the way), or relevant news articles, or 3rd-party market analysis. That's how we form ideas, generate feelings and decide, in this case, if Nokia is dying or not.

The declining sales figures, loss of market share, dearth of products and Nokia's own public financial disclosures certainly indicate that the company is in a precarious position. I'm not sure any analyst, armchair or otherwise, could put lipstick on this pig and still not end up with bacon? Certainly some companies have come back from this type of situation, although I'm hard-pressed to remember one, in the tech field, right now. IBM weathered several upheavals by adapting and re-orienting, but most have not.

Edited September 4, 2011 by lomatopo

[lomatopo]

Microsoft weighs in on Mosaid-Nokia patent deal

By Mary Jo Foley | September 2, 2011, 9:44am PDT

Summary: Microsoft is party to the just-announced deal between Nokia and Mosaid, a Canadian patent licensing firm. The Redmond company has a “passive economic interest,” its officials are saying.

In the latest installment of “As the patent world turns,” a Canadian patent licensing company announced on September 1 it was acquiring 2,000 of Nokia’s patents.

The company acquiring this intellectual property is Mosaid Technologies Inc., a self-described licensor of “patented intellectual property in the areas of semiconductors and communications technologies, and develops semiconductor memory technology.”

Mosaid didn’t pay Nokia for these patents. Instead, the Canadian company makes its money from licensing patents to others and collecting royalty monies via patent-infringement suits. Mosaid has filed patent suits in the past against Dell, HTC, Sony Ericsson, Research In Motion, Huawei Technologies, Wistron, ASUSteK, Asus Computer, Lexmark, Canon, Canon and Intel, among others, as noted by The Next Web.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-weighs-in-on-mosaid-nokia-patent-deal/10523

[Crushdepth]

Nokia share price chart.

[lomatopo]

The stock did well last week, but still down 36% YoY.

http://markets.ft.com/research/Markets/Tearsheets/Summary?s=NOK1V:HEX

[FarangBuddha]

The stock did well last week, but still down 36% YoY.

http://markets.ft.co...ary?s=NOK1V:HEX

You should look at the 3 and 5 year charts! The only thing keeping it up now is as a buyout candidate for MSFT or maybe a patent-bank play.

[FarangBuddha]

It took years for Android to gain real market share. Same will go for WM, remember, it's only ver 1.2 we are seeing with this mango version.

Dude it's called Windows Phone 7 for a reason...like it's the 7th iteration or try by MSFT at making a mobile-phone OS that doesn't suck-wind

[Crushdepth]

The new Windows Phone OS has had a lot of good reviews (by surprised reviewers). I haven't had a chance to play with one though, so its just hearsay

[lomatopo]

The new Windows Phone OS has had a lot of good reviews (by surprised reviewers). I haven't had a chance to play with one though, so its just hearsay

There are a fair amount of hands-on reviews of the recently announced HTC Titan and HTC Radar, running Windows Phone 7.5 (Mango).

It seems like MSFT wants Nokia to address the low-end of the smartphone market, based on public comments made to date.

[FarangBuddha]

The new Windows Phone OS has had a lot of good reviews (by surprised reviewers). I haven't had a chance to play with one though, so its just hearsay

There are a fair amount of hands-on reviews of the recently announced HTC Titan and HTC Radar, running Windows Phone 7.5 (Mango).

It seems like MSFT wants Nokia to address the low-end of the smartphone market, based on public comments made to date.

I seem to recall that Betamax got allot of good reviews vs. VHS as well but that didn't do much for Sony did it

But there are still allot of people around the world that have still to purchase their first smartphone and the Microsoft/Windows name/brand still commands allot of mind-share so they may make a go of it. Gotta give them credit for never saying die!

Edited September 4, 2011 by FarangBuddha

[lomatopo]

Nokia will not be competing with Google, Apple or the likes of Samsung (in the Android space), MSFT will be.

Nokia will be competing with every other MS WP licensee, which could be Samsung, HTC, LG, Huawei, ZTE. And they’ll have to compete against themselves as they pursue this crazy bifurcated strategy, stretching as much out of the dying Symbian OS. They will have to execute a complex strategy, with many inter-connected parts, over which they have little control or influence, perfectly just to even have a remote chance of surviving.

Given managements past history they’ll have to get very, very lucky as they’ve shown little capacity for success.

I’m not even sure MSFT has the culture to succeed in this space? And I have no idea how much MSFT’s brand carried over into this space in new markets, or even legacy markets?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I'm a lifelong Windows PC / Microsoft related products user...both at work and at home... I've never willingly used an Apple product, and I've certainly never bought one in the past 30 or so years.

That said, for Microsoft, I certainly do think they've botched a lot of things and failed to execute and recognize a lot of opportunities over the years...

However, I also think they certainly have a good shot at being a major OS player in the tablets market... depending on how well Windows 8 is received and performs... Just look at how fast HP just lately sold a ton of its tablets when they cut the price to $99, and that was in the U.S. There is market demand out there for a quality tablet at a reasonable price... and a lot of people including myself would appreciate a tablet that hopefully operates seamlessly with the Windows PC world.

As for future Windows Mobile and Nokia phones, I think that's a more problematic bet... It's hardly a surprise that Nokia's market sales and finances have gone into the dumper especially lately...when the whole world knows they're discontinuing the product OS that their entire market has been based on for years, and then have a year or so period of dead time until they actually have any product on the shelves with what their new OS will be. It doesn't take an analyst to know that's a recipe for taking a market nosedive...

Now, whether they can pull out of that nosedive once their new product arrives...I don't know... But in fairness, I think it's a bit early to be writing their obituary before they've ever brought their first Windows Mobile phone to market.

[Gary A]

Due to their great hardware, I think Nokia will do well with the Windows 7 operating system especially in the US. I had a Windows 6.5 phone and thought the operating system was fine. If not for the touch screen, I would probably still be using it.

It looks like I am probably wrong hating touch screen phones but that's just me. I STILL think they are a fad and people will soon decide that they are awkward to use and that buttons are more dependable and more accurate when opening various functions. That's not to even mention the much better battery life.

And, NO, I'm not interested in buying Nokia stock or any other stock for that matter. My retirement fund is down 35 percent.

[GreenSnapper]

Due to their great hardware, I think Nokia will do well with the Windows 7 operating system especially in the US.

That will depend on provider support in the US. It hasn't been great in the past, but that may change with M$.

That's not to even mention the much better battery life.

Battery life is abysmal on most Androids - people carry spare batteries as often battery life is less than one day.

iPhones are acceptable, but normally need recharge every night.

Symbian devices are much better, due to better OS tuning and lower processor needs.

But WP7 will top them all.