Crap Job? You Got The Choice!

[Jingthing]

The Thai guy is way better off especially if the American lives in a cold climate.

The American guy is much better off as he has a much better chance of a decent salary and improving his life (but Thailand is a better place for a single man to live if you have enough money to live comfortably).

Next.

This is simply statistically false info. If you are talking about a teen job or a very young man doing it for pin money, living with his parents, for a year or two, but having an education plan and finance to move on, of course he may be able to do so. I think a Thai with other resources that young could do the same. If you are talking about someone over 25 with only basic education and no family backing working full time at McDonalds in the US, statistically there is no doubt in my mind that the vast majority of people in that situation are doomed to a short life of grinding poverty.

BTW, I worked a crap job for a year when I was 19 because I didn't feel like I was emotionally ready for college, and also to save some of my own money (my parents will paid for everything). This was good for me because I learned how crappy my life would be if I didn't get a higher education. But I came from a family ready to pay for my college. It wasn't the crap job that lead me somewhere, it was the CLASS and privilege I was born into. Horatio Alger is dead.

America is "exceptional" alright. Exceptionally deluded that they don't have a class system!

Edited August 18, 2011 by Jingthing

[WarpSpeed]

Personally, I'll take the life of a wealthy retired expat in Thailand with a trilingual gardener. All I have to do is find someone taking applications for that position.

Does the gardener have to know that BMW's are cheaper in Thailand than the West? I think I know just the chap.

Eh? which model would that be?? Let's compare apples and apples yes??

Edited August 18, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

The Thai guy is way better off especially if the American lives in a cold climate.

The American guy is much better off as he has a much better chance of a decent salary and improving his life (but Thailand is a better place for a single man to live if you have enough money to live comfortably).

Next.

This is simply statistically false info. If you are talking about a teen job or a very young man doing it for pin money, living with his parents, for a year or two, but having an education plan and finance to move on, of course he may be able to do so. I think a Thai with other resources that young could do the same. If you are talking about someone over 25 with only basic education and no family backing working full time at McDonalds in the US, statistically there is no doubt in my mind that the vast majority of people in that situation are doomed to a short life of grinding poverty.

BTW, I worked a crap job for a year when I was 19 because I didn't feel like I was emotionally ready for college, and also to save some of my own money (my parents will paid for everything). This was good for me because I learned how crappy my life would be if I didn't get a higher education. But I came from a family ready to pay for my college. It wasn't the crap job that lead me somewhere, it was the CLASS and privilege I was born into. Horatio Alger is dead.

America is "exceptional" alright. Exceptionally deluded that they don't have a class system!

You TRIED one year?? And had college paid for you? So basically you're saying that you have no practical experience what-so-ever with which to provide a relevant perspective..

[Jingthing]

I agree totally my own experience is anecdotal. I NEVER said anything different.

However, explain to me how an uneducated 25 year old working full time at McDonalds who is likely to be homeless or near homeless if living in a high cost city, with no family to back him up, magically transitions to be solidly middle class? I am sure it sometimes happens due to freakish luck or the combination of a massively motivated person PLUS luck, but I am sure this applies to a very small minority of people in that unenviable situation. By 30, almost impossible.

BTW, it is not a matter of controversy now that potential CLASS MOBILITY (in other words, the chances people can RISE in class) is greater in western Europe than the US. Not sure how the US compares to Thailand that way. However, I do know that DOWNWARD CLASS MOBILITY is greatly on the rise in the US, as most long term unemployed people over 50 these days will likely never find work again.

In Thailand, class inequality is a huge issue. It should be in the US as the situation there is arguably worse, based on wealth concentration in a small minority.

Edited August 18, 2011 by Jingthing

[WarpSpeed]

I think the McDonald guy has a better life compared to the other guy. At least the USD is stronger compared to THB.

That's absurd. Such a guy wouldn't be traveling to Thailand unless he had other resources. The currency in the US is dollars and the cost of living is very high.

I hear this all the time but can't find any sources to prove it.. Food is not all that much higher, try buying some peaches, nectarines or plums here there is no way those and similar items are more expensive there then here.. Big ticket items such as cars etc. are definitely cheaper back home. In anticipation of my return home I've been searching cars etc. and there is nothing even close to the options here there is there and take for one example a mid 90's model Miata. Here it's at minimum 650,000b which is what it sold for new back there. There I can literally buy almost 10-1 for the same amount, that's an entire used car lot.. Like I said that's only one example and now with the housing crunch some of these houses will be very much available to the McDonalds guy even and the quality of both house and car is far above what is available here..

About the only thing I see more expensive there relatively speaking is insurance both auto and medical but then you also get what you pay for here the ceilings are too low and packages available too restricted which makes them affordable...

Edited August 18, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

I agree totally my own experience is anecdotal. I NEVER said anything different.

However, explain to me how an uneducated 25 year old working full time at McDonalds who is likely to be homeless or near homeless if living in a high cost city, with no family to back him up, magically transitions to be solidly middle class? I am sure it sometimes happens due to freakish luck or the combination of a massively motivated person PLUS luck, but I am sure this applies to a very small minority of people in that unenviable situation. By 30, almost impossible.

BTW, it is not a matter of controversy now that potential CLASS MOBILITY (in other words, the chances people can RISE in class) is greater in western Europe than the US. Not sure how the US compares to Thailand that way. However, I do know that DOWNWARD CLASS MOBILITY is greatly on the rise in the US, as most long term unemployed people over 50 these days will likely never find work again.

In Thailand, class inequality is a huge issue. It should be in the US as the situation there is arguably worse, based on wealth concentration in a small minority.

Why does he need to be middle class to be happy?? That's your definition of happiness maybe...

[Jingthing]

I can buy a livable house in the US for 30K US dollars. It is tempting. That is very cheap.

But the McDonald's guy isn't going to get it and even if he did, would have a very hard time keeping it.

Those houses are going to cash buyers.

This McDonald's guy wouldn't have the cash or the down payment, and he wouldn't get a loan either. Credit is very tight these days and no doc loans are also now not done. They would laugh an application from a fast food worker off their desk.

RENTS on the other hand remain quite high in the US and this worker would be renting, living with parents, or homeless. People in the US generally need to run a car, something not true in Thailand, and then there are health care costs.

Edited August 18, 2011 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Why does he need to be middle class to be happy?? That's your definition of happiness maybe...

In the US, poverty is demonized. People think it is a disease and don't want contact with it for fear it is catching. There is the myth in the US that all poor people DESERVE it when in most cases they are fated for it the same way most Thai peasants are. That's why it is very hard to be a happy poor person in America. Blame it on Calvinism, I suppose.

Edited August 18, 2011 by Jingthing

[WarpSpeed]

I can buy a livable house in the US for 30K US dollars. It is tempting. That is very cheap.

But the McDonald's guy isn't going to get it.

Those houses are going to cash buyers.

This McDonald's guy wouldn't have the cash or the down payment, and he wouldn't get a loan either. Credit is very tight these days and no doc loans are also now not done. They would laugh an application from a fast food worker off their desk.

RENTS on the other hand remain quite high in the US and this worker would be renting, living with parents, or homeless. People in the US generally need to run a car, something not true in Thailand, and then there are health care costs.

Big, presumptive, generalizations there across the board..

[Jingthing]

There are always exceptions and exceptional people, and my hat's off to them. However, what's offensive about happy face everything is grand Americans is that they promote the false usually right wing pro-rich false propaganda that such unlikely rises are actually even possible for the majority of the underclass if they simply worked harder, so they are lazy, and they deserve their miserable fate.

With this propaganda, they actually get many people whose best chance of rising in class is a lottery ticket to actually VOTE for politicians who only have the rich in mind. They've created a mass delusion that every American might be rich someday when that is logically impossible, and they control the masses this way.

Edited August 18, 2011 by Jingthing

[WarpSpeed]

Why does he need to be middle class to be happy?? That's your definition of happiness maybe...

In the US, poverty is demonized. People think it is a disease and don't want contact with it for fear it is catching. There is the myth in the US that all poor people DESERVE it when in most cases they are fated for it the same way most Thai peasants are. That's why it is very hard to be a happy poor person in America.

Excuse me, your lower chin is showing, not being middle class does not make you impoverished except on paper. The poverty level is considered under $25,000 per annum and middle class is anything over that and up to as much as $250,000per annum and that's generally an entire household and a lot of wiggle room..

But, for a single person who lives within their means $25,000 could be plenty and you obviously have not heard of renting to own properties which is how I bought my first townhouse when I was 22 and only paid out of pocket $1200 dollars for it as I cut a deal that best suited me. Shortly after that I purchased a brand new car, not a bottom basement model either and had a boat too.. Prices have now reverted back to my early twenties but salaries haven't as back then the minimum wage was 3.75 per hour though I was well above the minimum wage as a General Manager in my company there's no reason that even a minimum wage single burger flipper now couldn't live a comfortable life..

[WarpSpeed]

There are always exceptions and exceptional people, and my hat's off to them. However, what's offensive about happy face everything is grand Americans is that they promote the false usually right wing pro-rich false propaganda that such unlikely rises are actually even possible for the majority of the underclass if they simply worked harder, so they are lazy, and they deserve their miserable fate.

With this propaganda, they actually get many people whose best chance of rising in class is a lottery ticket to actually VOTE for politicians who only have the rich in mind. They've created a mass delusion that every American might be rich someday when that is logically impossible, and they control the masses this way.

We agree on some of this point though I don't label it a right wing Republican thing I've heard this same hypocrisy from both sides as once a liberal is rich they tend to forget the beliefs they espoused when one really seeks help or place heavy limits on how they're willing to help..

Basically they don't mind spending some else's money but tend to draw back when it's their own..

Edited August 18, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[vpi78]

There are always exceptions and exceptional people, and my hat's off to them. However, what's offensive about happy face everything is grand Americans is that they promote the false usually right wing pro-rich false propaganda that such unlikely rises are actually even possible for the majority of the underclass if they simply worked harder, so they are lazy, and they deserve their miserable fate.

With this propaganda, they actually get many people whose best chance of rising in class is a lottery ticket to actually VOTE for politicians who only have the rich in mind. They've created a mass delusion that every American might be rich someday when that is logically impossible, and they control the masses this way.

We agree on some of this point though I don't label it a right wing Republican thing I've heard this same hypocrisy from both sides as once a liberal is rich they tend to forget the beliefs they espoused when one really seeks help or place heavy limits on how they're willing to help..

Basically they don't mind spending some else's money but tend to draw back when it's their own..

From Margaret Thatcher, "The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of the other person's money."

I am not sure to whom to credit this next one and the best I can do is paraphrase it, but, "It is immoral to be a conservative when 20 years old and stupid to be a

liberal at 50."

The doom and gloomers are way oversold in the US now. It is not that bad but the media feeds off bad news as it has always done. As O'Bummer says himself there is no where else in the world that his story and opportunity could have been fulfilled.

America is still like that regardless of all the negativity.

[Jingthing]

President Obama (that's his name FYI) never was a fast food worker at 25 or 30. My point is that an American who has such a job at those ages is as likely to be doomed to a life in the underclass as a Thai rice farm worker would be.

After graduating high school from Punahou School in Hawaii, Barack Obama attended Occidental College for two years, then got his B.A. from Columbia University. He later got his law degree from Harvard Law School (where he became the Harvard Law Review's first African American president), graduating magna cum laude. Obama was also a lecturer of constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School. Then he ran for president in 2008. After the election in November 4, 2008 he was elected President of the United States.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_education_does_Barack_Obama_have#ixzz1VNJKyBdx

Edited August 18, 2011 by Jingthing

[vpi78]

President Obama (that's his name FYI) never was a fast food worker at 25 or 30. My point is that an American who has such a job at those ages is as likely to be doomed to a life in the underclass as a Thai rice farm worker would be.

After graduating high school from Punahou School in Hawaii, Barack Obama attended Occidental College for two years, then got his B.A. from Columbia University. He later got his law degree from Harvard Law School (where he became the Harvard Law Review's first African American president), graduating magna cum laude. Obama was also a lecturer of constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School. Then he ran for president in 2008. After the election in November 4, 2008 he was elected President of the United States.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_education_does_Barack_Obama_have#ixzz1VNJKyBdx

Yeah it is possible that BHO which is the abbreviation of his full name ((FYI) was more privileged that you. I have long suspected that.

Myself, I did work my way through college without the parents help but granted after serving 4 years in the military which I know o'Bummer did not and I suspect neither did you.

I did that by working in a lot of jobs that paid less than Mickey Ds.

I don't feel doomed.

[Jingthing]

It is certainly true that military service is a potential path out of a lifetime in the underclass. It kind of sucks that in general the rich order mostly the sons of the poor to their deaths for questionable reasons, but I suppose America is not so "exceptional" in that regard either. The USA is still in wars now so less of a draw for those mostly interested in it for economic reasons.

Back to the OP again, clearly the Thai man is better off in the question on the HOUSING issue alone. It is extremely difficult for an American to secure housing on a fast food wage while in Thailand it would be super easy.

Edited August 18, 2011 by Jingthing

[vpi78]

It is certainly true that military service is a potential path out of a lifetime in the underclass. It kind of sucks that in general the rich order mostly the sons of the poor to their deaths for questionable reasons, but I suppose America is not so "exceptional" in that regard either. The USA is still in wars now so less of a draw for those mostly interested in it for economic reasons.

Back to the OP again, clearly the Thai man is better off in the question on the HOUSING issue alone. It is extremely difficult for an American to secure housing on a fast food wage while in Thailand it would be super easy.

Nice way of diverting the core question. Of course the Thai guy is better off on housing.

On opportunity there is still no better country than the USA. The Mickey Ds guy has so many more options in even Obamaland.

How many career Mickey Ds soda jerks do you know Jingthing? We all tend to move on. I did and you apparently did to Thailand but after your folks paid for your education.

[Ulysses G.]

You TRIED one year?? And had college paid for you? So basically you're saying that you have no practical experience what-so-ever with which to provide a relevant perspective..

That is not true. He has studied Michael Moore's great works extensively and reads the Huffington post every day.

[Jingthing]

On opportunity there is still no better country than the USA.

You are living in the past. I don't see much point in debating a true believer who doesn't keep up with current events.

[Jingthing]

That is not true. He has studied Michael Moore's great works extensively and reads the Huffington post every day.

I prefer COUNTDOWN with Keith Olbermann.

And, yes, I'm a bloody liberal; never made a secret about that.

OK, the Huff-post is a good source too!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/17/social-immobility-climbin_n_501788.html

Is America the "land of opportunity"? Not so much.

A new report from the Organization for Economic Co-Operation and Development (OECD) finds that social mobility between generations is dramatically lower in the U.S. than in many other developed countries.

So if you want your children to climb the socioeconomic ladder higher than you did, move to Canada.

The report finds the U.S. ranking well below Denmark, Australia, Norway, Finland, Canada, Sweden, Germany and Spain in terms of how freely citizens move up or down the social ladder. Only in Italy and Great Britain is the intensity of the relationship between individual and parental earnings even greater.

Based to the housing point. Housing costs for most working stiffs is by far the largest percentage of their monthly income, so I stand by my assertion that the huge difference between basic housing affordability between Thailand and the USA makes the choice in the OP obviously massively in favor for the Thai low wage worker. I would bet the house so to speak that the percentage of HOMELESS American fast food workers greatly exceeds the percentage of Thai ones.

Edited August 18, 2011 by Jingthing

[zzaa09]

Why does he need to be middle class to be happy?? That's your definition of happiness maybe...

In the US, poverty is demonized. People think it is a disease and don't want contact with it for fear it is catching. There is the myth in the US that all poor people DESERVE it when in most cases they are fated for it the same way most Thai peasants are. That's why it is very hard to be a happy poor person in America. Blame it on Calvinism, I suppose.

Today, one could easily imagine that a 65% percentile [realistically] of the the American population are "existing" from week-to-week with no real hope of breaking through. This overwhelming number will be considered and challenged by those whom consider the surfaced illusion that has been fed.

Seriously, I could expect nothing but a social rebellion of some measure within a generation. A repressive class-system is all that keeps this model from becoming a reality. The everyday cost of living in the States is incomprehensible and out of reach for most.

[zzaa09]

Based to the housing point. Housing costs for most working stiffs is by far the largest percentage of their monthly income, so I stand by my assertion that the huge difference between basic housing affordability between Thailand and the USA makes the choice in the OP obviously massively in favor for the Thai low wage worker. I would bet the house so to speak that the percentage of HOMELESS American fast food workers greatly exceeds the percentage of Thai ones.

The comparative notes are quite reflective towards the social and familial extensions that are genuinely a way of life in Thailand [and numerous traditional cultures alike] and despairingly have no place in the American consciousness......some things cannot be examined through false economic weight alone.

[WarpSpeed]

You TRIED one year?? And had college paid for you? So basically you're saying that you have no practical experience what-so-ever with which to provide a relevant perspective..

That is not true. He has studied Michael Moore's great works extensively and reads the Huffington post every day.

Oh! Thanks for clearing that up for me ...

[WarpSpeed]

Why does he need to be middle class to be happy?? That's your definition of happiness maybe...

In the US, poverty is demonized. People think it is a disease and don't want contact with it for fear it is catching. There is the myth in the US that all poor people DESERVE it when in most cases they are fated for it the same way most Thai peasants are. That's why it is very hard to be a happy poor person in America. Blame it on Calvinism, I suppose.

"existing" from week-to-week

I'll take that over existing from day to day anytime and bank on my future where it's more within grasp then what is offered here.. Demonization is only effective if you let it get you down but a self confident person uses that as motivation instead of a cross to bear.. I've had peoples foot on my neck my entire life with them standing over me telling me what I can and can't accomplish and to date not a single one has been correct except me, and supposedly they know me better then I know myself... I'm not a guy to bet against..

JFYI a guy who's been working at Mickey D's into his 30's had better worked his way up to store manager at least and from with the employees who show real initiative and other redeeming qualities has the opportunity to climb the ladder and even an eventual franchise possibly. If not, then they clearly don't have the motivation required no matter how much education or opportunities they have.

Someone here uneducated and maybe even dark skinned has very little to no chance of ever making it higher then a burger flipper cause even the lesser educated people back home still have a leg up in American society just based on practical life experience.

Edited August 18, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[kerryk]

Why does he need to be middle class to be happy?? That's your definition of happiness maybe...

In the US, poverty is demonized. People think it is a disease and don't want contact with it for fear it is catching. There is the myth in the US that all poor people DESERVE it when in most cases they are fated for it the same way most Thai peasants are. That's why it is very hard to be a happy poor person in America. Blame it on Calvinism, I suppose.

Today, one could easily imagine that a 65% percentile [realistically] of the the American population are "existing" from week-to-week with no real hope of breaking through. This overwhelming number will be considered and challenged by those whom consider the surfaced illusion that has been fed.

Seriously, I could expect nothing but a social rebellion of some measure within a generation. A repressive class-system is all that keeps this model from becoming a reality. The everyday cost of living in the States is incomprehensible and out of reach for most.

I really don't think you have to worry about it too much, Americans are too polite, even the liberals; not like the youths in the UK as they demonstrated in the last couple of weeks. I would worry far more about the impending revolution in the UK.

[kerryk]

It is certainly true that military service is a potential path out of a lifetime in the underclass. It kind of sucks that in general the rich order mostly the sons of the poor to their deaths for questionable reasons, but I suppose America is not so "exceptional" in that regard either. The USA is still in wars now so less of a draw for those mostly interested in it for economic reasons.

Back to the OP again, clearly the Thai man is better off in the question on the HOUSING issue alone. It is extremely difficult for an American to secure housing on a fast food wage while in Thailand it would be super easy.

It is a common myth that Vietnam vets were poor and uneducated. In fact, Vietnam Veterans were the best educated forces that had been sent into combat. 79% had a high school education or better. Servicemen who went to Vietnam from well-to-do areas

had a higher risk of dying since they were more likely to be pilots or infantry officers.

[vpi78]

On opportunity there is still no better country than the USA.

You are living in the past. I don't see much point in debating a true believer who doesn't keep up with current events.

Please educate us non-believer, thee of the one year of trying to work yourself through college without mum's help.

Which current events impress you so?

The one where you cut and ran because you could not compete and get a job?

No surprise that eh? Those that quit find it easier to do so each time.

[Jingthing]

It is certainly true that military service is a potential path out of a lifetime in the underclass. It kind of sucks that in general the rich order mostly the sons of the poor to their deaths for questionable reasons, but I suppose America is not so "exceptional" in that regard either. The USA is still in wars now so less of a draw for those mostly interested in it for economic reasons.

Back to the OP again, clearly the Thai man is better off in the question on the HOUSING issue alone. It is extremely difficult for an American to secure housing on a fast food wage while in Thailand it would be super easy.

It is a common myth that Vietnam vets were poor and uneducated. In fact, Vietnam Veterans were the best educated forces that had been sent into combat. 79% had a high school education or better. Servicemen who went to Vietnam from well-to-do areas

had a higher risk of dying since they were more likely to be pilots or infantry officers.

Hold your horses, old timer. There was a DRAFT for Vietnam. Remember?

[Jingthing]

On opportunity there is still no better country than the USA.

You are living in the past. I don't see much point in debating a true believer who doesn't keep up with current events.

Please educate us non-believer, thee of the one year of trying to work yourself through college without mum's help.

Which current events impress you so?

The one where you cut and ran because you could not compete and get a job?

No surprise that eh? Those that quit find it easier to do so each time.

Let's try to focus on the objective economic and social situations in the two countries, and avoid the baiting PERSONAL attacks, shall we? Edited August 18, 2011 by Jingthing

[kerryk]

It is certainly true that military service is a potential path out of a lifetime in the underclass. It kind of sucks that in general the rich order mostly the sons of the poor to their deaths for questionable reasons, but I suppose America is not so "exceptional" in that regard either. The USA is still in wars now so less of a draw for those mostly interested in it for economic reasons.

Back to the OP again, clearly the Thai man is better off in the question on the HOUSING issue alone. It is extremely difficult for an American to secure housing on a fast food wage while in Thailand it would be super easy.

It is a common myth that Vietnam vets were poor and uneducated. In fact, Vietnam Veterans were the best educated forces that had been sent into combat. 79% had a high school education or better. Servicemen who went to Vietnam from well-to-do areas

had a higher risk of dying since they were more likely to be pilots or infantry officers.

Hold your horses, old timer. There was a DRAFT for Vietnam. Remember?

Fact: Two-thirds of those serving in Vietnam were volunteers. Two-thirds of the men who served in World War II

were drafted.