Oil Deal: Thaksin To Visit Cambodia

[armstrongthai]

I believe (and apparently so do the majority of the Thai people) that Thaksin cares deeply about the country of Thailand and it's people and will work tirelessly for the economic improvement of both.

If he build's his wealth (legally) along the way so be it.

It's got to be better than the stagnation of the past 5 years!

Does anyone really believe that Thaksin cares at all about the Thai Gov't or finances after what the Thai courts did to him? George Santayana's famous quote "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to fulfill it", should be updated to "Those who cannot remember or simply refuse to believe the past...,

Get ready to bend over, Thailand!

He's on his way back.

[samurai]

PTT is not totally state owned, there is some private shareholding.

I guess about 6 years back a certain percentage of the shares were open to the public and there was an application process o get allocated blocks of shares.

Guess who's family and cronies walked away with the majority of the shares?

Tell us if you know more.

[Soutpeel]

"Thaksin will help negotiate with Cambodia on a plan for joint development of a petroleum venture in the Gulf of Thailand where both countries claim the rights. He wants state-run PTT to have a stake in the oil-and-gas concession or enter a joint venture with Cambodia, the source said."

The PTT stake bit....is a bit of nationalist propaganda......if this ever comes into fruition it will be a Joint Venture Company formed from both Thai, Cambodian and "other" share holders....Montenagrian perhaps...

[Soutpeel]

I believe (and apparently so do the majority of the Thai people) that Thaksin cares deeply about the country of Thailand and it's people and will work tirelessly for the economic improvement of both.

If he build's his wealth (legally) along the way so be it.

It's got to be better than the stagnation of the past 5 years!

.....the majority of Thai people voted, (I am not sure the word "majority" is the right word ...what was the turn out for election against the total of population ?) because they were promised money, credit cards and consumer electronics...

I would be intrested to see the Thaksin apologists comments when he gets back into the country and starts via his proxy to extract vengance on those citizens living in Thailand whose countries snubbed him during his time in the wilderness......

[samurai]

"Thaksin will help negotiate with Cambodia on a plan for joint development of a petroleum venture in the Gulf of Thailand where both countries claim the rights. He wants state-run PTT to have a stake in the oil-and-gas concession or enter a joint venture with Cambodia, the source said."

The PTT stake bit....is a bit of nationalist propaganda......if this ever comes into fruition it will be a Joint Venture Company formed from both Thai, Cambodian and "other" share holders....Montenagrian perhaps...

Tell us if you know more.

[whybother]

I believe (and apparently so do the majority of the Thai people) that Thaksin cares deeply about the country of Thailand and it's people and will work tirelessly for the economic improvement of both.

If he build's his wealth (legally) along the way so be it.

It's got to be better than the stagnation of the past 5 years!

Last I checked, a "majority" means more than half. That the PTP didn't get the majority of votes in the election (and only 35% of eligible voters), it would suggest that the majority of the Thai people DON'T believe that Thaksin cares deeply about the country.

[samurai]

.....the majority of Thai people voted, (I am not sure the word "majority" is the right word ...what was the turn out for election against the total of population ?) because they were promised money, credit cards and consumer electronics...

LOL.

simply accept the election result.

[samurai]

I believe (and apparently so do the majority of the Thai people) that Thaksin cares deeply about the country of Thailand and it's people and will work tirelessly for the economic improvement of both.

If he build's his wealth (legally) along the way so be it.

It's got to be better than the stagnation of the past 5 years!

Last I checked, a "majority" means more than half. That the PTP didn't get the majority of votes in the election (and only 35% of eligible voters), it would suggest that the majority of the Thai people DON'T believe that Thaksin cares deeply about the country.

last you checked?

Last time you were if full defense of the Ex-PM Abhisit and his "majority".

Simply accept who got elected by the people and who is the unwanted one.

[coldmike]

I believe (and apparently so do the majority of the Thai people) that Thaksin cares deeply about the country of Thailand and it's people and will work tirelessly for the economic improvement of both.

If he build's his wealth (legally) along the way so be it.

It's got to be better than the stagnation of the past 5 years!

Stagnation of the past 5 years! Do you look at the rest of the world? The past 5 years have been better for Thailand than Europe and the USA wich have been in the toilet. Little or no growth. Thailand has still had positive growth, despite experiencing inflation and economic unstability due to ties to US dollar and many other external factors . Thaksin's policies may have helped Thailand some in the past , but they also sure helped the Shinawatra family.

[whybother]

last you checked?

Last time you were if full defense of the Ex-PM Abhisit and his "majority".

Simply accept who got elected by the people and who is the unwanted one.

Abhisit DID have majority support of MPs.

PTP DID NOT get a majority vote of the people.

[samurai]

last you checked?

Last time you were if full defense of the Ex-PM Abhisit and his "majority".

Simply accept who got elected by the people and who is the unwanted one.

Abhisit DID have majority support of MPs.

PTP DID NOT get a majority vote of the people.

Again.

Accept who got elected by the people and who is the unwanted one.

Its simple.

[phiphidon]

Thaksin's adviser unaware of a trip to Cambodia

By The Nation

Legal adviser Noppadon Pattama on Wednesday admitted he was unaware of his client Thaksin Shinawatra's planned visit to Cambodia, scheduled for Friday to Sunday. "I don't know anything about the trip," he said.

Noppadon said he was trying to indentify the news source, who reportedly is an insider of Pheu Thai Party.

Pheu Thai MP Pracha Prasobdee said he believed Thaksin would remain in Dubai before making his scheduled visit to Japan on Monday.

Pracha dismissed news reports that Thaksin would stop over in Phnom Penh on his way to Tokyo.

According to earlier reports, Thaksin is scheduled to meet Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen and Defence Minister Tea Banh. He is reportedly trying to broker a deal for oil and gas in the Gulf of Thailand's overlapping economic zone.

-- The Nation 2011-08-17

Here we go again, another Nation non story based entirely on an unattributable source and the usual suspects react accordingly.

Legal adviser Noppadon Pattama on Wednesday admitted he was unaware of his client Thaksin Shinawatra's planned visit to Cambodia, scheduled for Friday to Sunday. "I don't know anything about the trip," he said.

Note that the Nation takes a simple statement from Noppadon "I don't know anything about the trip" and transforms it into "admitting he was unaware of Thaksins planned visit to Cambodia" thus implying guilt about a trip that an unattributable source says is going to happen. This same source in the original post details what Thaksin is supposedly going there for and who he wants to involve (implying the Thai Government). The Nation then helpfully describes the reasons again in the final paragraph only this time implying there is not just one report but more, "According to earlier reports", thus adding supposed legitimacy to the original non story.

I doubt Noppadon will find the "Source" as being an insider in the PTP. Yet no doubt this will be another story trotted out in the "Funny how all the news coming out from the new Government is all about Thaksin" saga. So yes, the "propaganda puff piece" about Intelligence operations does have some relevance to the OP. It may be worth noting that the said "propaganda puff piece" was written by Colonel Boonrod Srisombat and was published in the Army Training Command's Senathipat Journal.

He is also the author of another article published in that Journal entitled, "Lessons from the Operation Encirclement at the Ratchaprasong area during 14-19 May 2010" an article which Army Spokesperson Colonel Sansern felt obliged to comment on

Col Sansern said that the information presented in the article was correct according to true information, but there were some inaccuracies.

One of the inaccuracies apparently was the article mentioned the use of Army Snipers - Col. Sansern that they weren't snipers per se but actually "operating troops who were in charge of protection". They differed because snipers "have to be deployed in covert places and are tasked with shooting targets as assigned" as opposed to army troops with sniper rifles that didn't hide but still shot people I presume?

http://prachatai.com/english/node/2624

[whybother]

Again.

Accept who got elected by the people and who is the unwanted one.

Its simple.

I accept that PTP got into government after getting 53% of the seats with votes from 48% of the voters.

I don't accept the lies that the "majority of the people" voted for PTP or, relevant for this discussion, that "the majority of the Thai people" believe "that Thaksin cares deeply about the country".

[scorecard]

I don't suppose he works for free but any commission he may make will be insignificant to the benefits for Thailand. Thaksin is an astute businessman and of course will build his family's wealth (why not?!) but in this case his skills are serving Thailand's best interests.

All of you Thaksin bashers need to ask yourself one question and try to answer honestly and objectively:

How much better off would Thailand be today if he had not been ousted?

From the yellows taking over the airports to the reds in the streets, from the removal of democracy, the damaged reputation of Thailand abroad, tourists staying away and the division throughout Thai society. All because (in my opinion) one sector couldn't handle Thaksin's success and being powerful enough, would go to any length to stop him. Thaksin's govt may have had it's flaws (has any in the world not!?) but what's been done to this country in the name of 'putting it right' is insane.

Are you suggesting this deal will not benefit Thailand enormously?!

Are you suggesting that Thaksin won't be taking a cut?

'Better off'.

Let's see

- Many credible economists have commented that thaksin's economics were unworkable and likely to bring strong damage long term.

- If the trend continued there would have been more and more destruction of the checks and balances and dictator would probably now be the title on the job description.

[ballpoint]

Bingo ... one of many here that actually uses the rubbish from the Nation as facts ... widen your horizon .. try to read this then you will learn how News are tailored here in this country : http://asiapacific.a...the-red-shirts/

Blow job... Think about this .

Thaksin and his mate Hun Sen engineered the border conflict to put pressure on the Abhisit government... So therefor as some Thai's died..

Thaksin has Thai blood on his hands.

Not withstanding the red shirts that were killed in Bkk of course as it was Thaksin that refused to end the demonstration that he bankrolled and started.

The reds' story is that the Thai "elite" engineered the border skirmish to create some nationalistic jingo. Why then, when the same "elite" are still in place, and another border skirmish would severely embarrass the PTP government, do they not simply do what the reds claimed they did before and engineer another one? Because, as you say, they never did in the first place.

[Soutpeel]

'Better off'.

Let's see

- Many credible economists have commented that thaksin's economics were unworkable and likely to bring strong damage long term.

- If the trend continued there would have been more and more destruction of the checks and balances and dictator would probably now be the title on the job description.

Although I agree with your sentiments I would dispute any comments coming from "credible" economists, after all <deleted> do they know about ecomonics, considering the state the worlds economies are in....

[samurai]

Rumours and <deleted>

The standard response of a disciple trying to defend the indefensible.

I know you are a strong believer in fairy tales but if you read in the The Nation: "A source said ..." its time to start the bullsh_t detector.

Specially when it comes to the Cambodia, Thaksin & oil conspiracy theory. That a classic disinformation piece of the yellow Antithaksinista propaganda campaign. We heard it all before. That makes it not true. Don't be stupid and fall for it.

[Thaddeus]

Rumours and <deleted>

The standard response of a disciple trying to defend the indefensible.

I know you are a strong believer in fairy tales but if you read in the The Nation: "A source said ..." its time to start the bullsh_t detector.

They do that for much the same reason that you didn't create your forum login with your real name, you managed to grasp that concept then, why is it so difficult to understand now?

I do not believe in fairy tales, so please show me one action that Thaksin has made where his own personal enrichment hasn't been the primary motivator and final target, then I may start to.

[samurai]

Again.

Accept who got elected by the people and who is the unwanted one.

Its simple.

I accept that PTP got into government after getting 53% of the seats with votes from 48% of the voters.

I don't accept the lies that the "majority of the people" voted for PTP or, relevant for this discussion, that "the majority of the Thai people" believe "that Thaksin cares deeply about the country".

So do you accept that the Thai people gave the Thaksin affiliated PTP the mandate to form the government and Abhisit and the Dems never had a chance to win an election or not?

[whybother]

I accept that PTP got into government after getting 53% of the seats with votes from 48% of the voters.

I don't accept the lies that the "majority of the people" voted for PTP or, relevant for this discussion, that "the majority of the Thai people" believe "that Thaksin cares deeply about the country".

So do you accept that the Thai people gave the Thaksin affiliated PTP the mandate to form the government and Abhisit and the Dems never had a chance to win an election or not?

Having problems reading?

[Soutpeel]

I know you are a strong believer in fairy tales but if you read in the The Nation: "A source said ..." its time to start the bullsh_t detector.

Specially when it comes to the Cambodia, Thaksin & oil conspiracy theory. That a classic disinformation piece of the yellow Antithaksinista propaganda campaign. We heard it all before. That makes it not true. Don't be stupid and fall for it.

Well it appears part of the fairy tale is actually true.....your beloved PM has just confirmed herself that old square head is making a trip to Cambodia on a "private visit"........

so are you going to suggest now that the PM is part of the "yellow Antithaksinista propaganda campaign" as well....

Of course in the same article the esteemed PM also denies these is any connection between the current Thai goverment and old square head, and even a blind man can see she is telling porkies about that one

Edited August 17, 2011 by Soutpeel

[thaihome]

Just a few clarifying facts.

PTT Plc is a publicly traded company in which the Finance Ministry holds 51% of the shares. The PTT IPO is a an area of some controversy as it sold out in some 4 minutes and only insiders got any shares.

The Thai-Cambodia overlapping area is thought to have significant gas reserves based on preliminary exploration though as another said, the geology is very fractured and so far Chevron has not committed to a production schedule to develop the area they have a concession for (outside in the overlapping area). The area is largely unexplored and is just waiting for settlement of the border disputes. At this point, Thailand needs the gas much more then Cambodia who needs the money more then Thailand.

Here is a small map showing the GOF and overlapping area.

The Third Transmission Pipeline has a tee (hot tap) installed in anticipation of connection to the overlapping area.

The setup of any company formed to exploit the gas would likely follow the setup of the Malaysia-Thailand Joint Authority which would then award contracts for exploration and operation of the oil and gas fields.

MTJA

If the same model is followed an jointly owned company between PTT and CNPA would build and operate a pipeline to take gas out of the overlapping area to the Third Transmission Pipeline or to Cambodia.

Is there anything sinister about Thaksin bringing foreign investors to Cambodia to meet Hue Sen and discuss gas and oil exploration. Considering some of the setups of the Joint ventures that run many of the blocks in both Thailand and Malaysia, the answer is not sinister, but certainly it will be interesting to see how it all falls out.

TH

Edited August 17, 2011 by thaihome

[samurai]

So do you accept that the Thai people gave the Thaksin affiliated PTP the mandate to form the government and Abhisit and the Dems never had a chance to win an election or not?

Having problems reading?

Having problems to accept reality and play with moot points and obfuscation instead?

Keep it simple. There are winners and there is the unwanted.

Remember who spun the meme the red shirts would whinge after the election? Turns out the sore losers sitting in the other camp.

[samurai]

I know you are a strong believer in fairy tales but if you read in the The Nation: "A source said ..." its time to start the bullsh_t detector.

Specially when it comes to the Cambodia, Thaksin & oil conspiracy theory. That a classic disinformation piece of the yellow Antithaksinista propaganda campaign. We heard it all before. That makes it not true. Don't be stupid and fall for it.

Well it appears part of the fairy tale is actually true.....your beloved PM has just confirmed herself that old square head is making a trip to Cambodia on a "private visit"........

so are you going to suggest now that the PM is part of the "yellow Antithaksinista propaganda campaign" as well....

Of course in the same article the esteemed PM also denies these is any connection between the current Thai goverment and old square head, and even a blind man can see she is telling porkies about that one

Where comes the part that a Montenegrin owns PTT and wanna leech off Thailands wealth or sell it out or whatever only for his own greedy interests and that of his family, the maid, the driver and the dog?

[rixalex]

Remember who spun the meme the red shirts would whinge after the election? Turns out the sore losers sitting in the other camp.

Well at least they are only sitting, not running around shooting and burning, as the reds surely would be doing right now, were positions reversed.

[Soutpeel]

Is there anything sinister about Thaksin bringing foreign investors to Cambodia to meet Hue Sen and discuss gas and oil exploration. Considering some of the setups of the Joint ventures that run many of the blocks in both Thailand and Malaysia, the answer is not sinister, but certainly it will be interesting to see how it all falls out.

TH

With Thaksin being involved could we not be treading the path of conflict of interest in this case, if in fact he is brokering a deal ?......as we know in most MNC's conflict of interest rules usually extend to immediate family members even though they are not working directly for a MNC.

[samurai]

Remember who spun the meme the red shirts would whinge after the election? Turns out the sore losers sitting in the other camp.

Well at least they are only sitting, not running around shooting and burning, as the reds surely would be doing right now, were positions reversed.

Would they?

If the unwanted one had decided to dissolve the parliament and call for a snap election two and a half years ago all that terror during that dark period could have been avoided and no one would had to shoot these 90+ people to death in the life fire zone.

But the unwanted one hesitated to let the people decide. That was all the red shirt people asked for.

[samurai]

Its time to privatize state own businesses.

[DaveHKT]

Just a few clarifying facts.

PTT Plc is a publicly traded company in which the Finance Ministry holds 51% of the shares. The PTT IPO is a an area of some controversy as it sold out in some 4 minutes and only insiders got any shares.

The Thai-Cambodia overlapping area is thought to have significant gas reserves based on preliminary exploration though as another said, the geology is very fractured and so far Chevron has not committed to a production schedule to develop the area they have a concession for (outside in the overlapping area). The area is largely unexplored and is just waiting for settlement of the border disputes. At this point, Thailand needs the gas much more then Cambodia who needs the money more then Thailand.

Here is a small map showing the GOF and overlapping area.

The Third Transmission Pipeline has a tee (hot tap) installed in anticipation of connection to the overlapping area.

The setup of any company formed to exploit the gas would likely follow the setup of the Malaysia-Thailand Joint Authority which would then award contracts for exploration and operation of the oil and gas fields.

MTJA

If the same model is followed an jointly owned company between PTT and CNPA would build and operate a pipeline to take gas out of the overlapping area to the Third Transmission Pipeline or to Cambodia.

Is there anything sinister about Thaksin bringing foreign investors to Cambodia to meet Hue Sen and discuss gas and oil exploration. Considering some of the setups of the Joint ventures that run many of the blocks in both Thailand and Malaysia, the answer is not sinister, but certainly it will be interesting to see how it all falls out.

TH

Can anyone verify the following story?

Secret oil dealbetween Hun Sen and Thaksin Shinawatra – Khmer Intelligence, March 21, 2010

In early 2006Cambodia's Prime Minister Hun Sen and Thailand's Prime Minister ThaksinShinawatra concluded a secret oil deal to personally share "under thetable" a portion of royalties to be paid by oil exploitation companies.Those companies had been exploring very promising offshore oil and gas depositsin the Gulf of Thailand, including in the overlapping zones claimed by bothCambodia and Thailand.

For revenuestemming from these overlapping zones, a tentative agreement has been reachedwhereby:

- Revenue fromzones closest to Cambodia's shores will be shared as follows: 70 percent toCambodia; 30 percent to Thailand.

- Revenue fromzones closest to Thailand's shores: 70 percent to Thailand; 30 percent toCambodia.

However, the twoprime ministers mutually agreed to mislead their respective public opinions byaccepting to "recognize" that some of the zones closest to Cambodiabe instead considered as closest to Thailand, and vice versa.

Therefore, in thecase of Cambodia, instead of receiving 70 percent, the country would receiveonly 30 percent of the royalties paid by the concerned oil companies, theremaining 40 percent would be split fifty-fifty between Hun Sen and Thaksin,meaning twenty percent each for the two leaders on a personal base.

The same sharingscheme would apply to the overlapping zones closest to Thailand, with Thaksinand Hun Sen also secretly receiving 20 percent each of the royalties.

"…edit off subject topic"

Cambodian citizenship to protect and reassure"ex-foreign" investors (2)

Because Cambodia'slaw does not allow foreigners to own land in our country, the Hun Sengovernment has granted Cambodian citizenship to countless investors (fromChina, Malaysia, Hong Kong, Taiwan but also some European countries) who arewilling to invest large amounts of money to buy land and engage in"development projects." Among the most prominent"ex-foreign" investors is Mr. Thaksin Shinawatra from Thailand whowas given Khmer citizenship in March 2009. Mr. Thaksin has reportedly boughtlarge chunks of land in Cambodia's maritime Koh Kong province borderingThailand for economic, financial and possibly other reasons.

[rixalex]

Remember who spun the meme the red shirts would whinge after the election? Turns out the sore losers sitting in the other camp.

Well at least they are only sitting, not running around shooting and burning, as the reds surely would be doing right now, were positions reversed.

Would they?

If the unwanted one had decided to dissolve the parliament and call for a snap election two and a half years ago all that terror during that dark period could have been avoided and no one would had to shoot these 90+ people to death in the life fire zone.

But the unwanted one hesitated to let the people decide. That was all the red shirt people asked for.

The red shirt people didn't need to "ask" for an election because an election was already due - the election we have just had. That wasn't quick enough for them. They wanted one at a time of their own choosing. That is not the way democracy works. If it was, the Dems should be out on the streets now demanding new elections. OK, so they might lose again, but that surely is that their right - to demand an election whenever they see fit. ????