Thaksin's Visa Could Be Japan's Big Mistake

[Bkkorupcountry]

It's amusing to see how worked up the anti-T's are about corruption, upholding the law etc. One can't blame them I guess, that's how they were brought up and those are the values and morals they would like to live by.

As oppose to you, the red shirt apologist, that is happy for a corruption that you think benefit you and abhor if it doesn't.

Double-standard is the dish you guys have for breakfast.

Your words, not mine. As usual, you jump to your own conclusions and try to force it down our throats.

[Bkkorupcountry]

It's amusing to see how worked up the anti-T's are about corruption, upholding the law etc. One can't blame them I guess, that's how they were brought up and those are the values and morals they would like to live by.

As oppose to you, the red shirt apologist, that is happy for a corruption that you think benefit you and abhor if it doesn't.

Double-standard is the dish you guys have for breakfast.

Those who accept corruption as 'unchangeable' in Thailand are notgiving much logical thought to the future of their loved ones / their children etc.

Many are doing well (in Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia etc) even with the blatant corruption in these countries. In fact, I would even venture to say that many are doing better than many in the clean, democratic societies of the Western World.

[whybother]

Those who accept corruption as 'unchangeable' in Thailand are notgiving much logical thought to the future of their loved ones / their children etc.

Many are doing well (in Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia etc) even with the blatant corruption in these countries. In fact, I would even venture to say that many are doing better than many in the clean, democratic societies of the Western World.

Is that a "I think corruption is good" statement?

No wonder you're a Thaksin supporter.

Edited August 23, 2011 by whybother

[hammered]

It's amusing to see how worked up the anti-T's are about corruption, upholding the law etc. One can't blame them I guess, that's how they were brought up and those are the values and morals they would like to live by.

As oppose to you, the red shirt apologist, that is happy for a corruption that you think benefit you and abhor if it doesn't.

Double-standard is the dish you guys have for breakfast.

Truth is many anti-Thaksinistas are as guilty of double standards as anyone else. The coup was as illegal. Do anti-Thaksinistas condemn it without caveat? Corruption under many measures was worse under the Abhisit regime than under any Thaksin regime. Do anti-Thaksinistas clearly point this out in condemning all corruption? The Abhisit regime obsessed with stuffing every state body with their people as did Thaksin. The freedom of the meida was by all measure worse under the Abhisit regime than under the Thaksin regime.

Now even with all the above I dont blame people for prefering Abhisit and his Dems as everyone has their own personal political bias but to think it is a black and white good and bad issue is silly. It is just a matter of personal political leanings.

[whybother]

Truth is many anti-Thaksinistas are as guilty of double standards as anyone else. The coup was as illegal. Do anti-Thaksinistas condemn it without caveat? Corruption under many measures was worse under the Abhisit regime than under any Thaksin regime. Do anti-Thaksinistas clearly point this out in condemning all corruption? The Abhisit regime obsessed with stuffing every state body with their people as did Thaksin. The freedom of the meida was by all measure worse under the Abhisit regime than under the Thaksin regime.

Now even with all the above I dont blame people for prefering Abhisit and his Dems as everyone has their own personal political bias but to think it is a black and white good and bad issue is silly. It is just a matter of personal political leanings.

"Corruption under many measures"

"The freedom of the media was by all measure"

What measures would those be?

Hammered, I think you've been reading too much RA.

Edited August 23, 2011 by whybother

[Bkkorupcountry]

Those who accept corruption as 'unchangeable' in Thailand are notgiving much logical thought to the future of their loved ones / their children etc.

Many are doing well (in Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia etc) even with the blatant corruption in these countries. In fact, I would even venture to say that many are doing better than many in the clean, democratic societies of the Western World.

Is that a "I think corruption is good" statement?

No wonder you're a Thaksin supporter.

No, that's not a "corruption is good" statement. Corruption just is, it's there and no matter how hard you try, it will always be around, even in the Western World. The British Govt has just recently issued new legislation clamping down on British firms involved in corruption in order to win contracts (not referring to contracts for works in Thailand mind you, as these are quite negligible). So therefore, the fact is that there are still British firms willing to bribe their way to get what they want, as there are other American and European firms. If morals are so high in the western world, why would this be necessary?

You conclude that I'm a Thaksin supporter because you think that I think corruption is good. Quite simple minded, aren't you?

[OzMick]

It's amusing to see how worked up the anti-T's are about corruption, upholding the law etc. One can't blame them I guess, that's how they were brought up and those are the values and morals they would like to live by.

Fact of the matter is that here in Asia, with the exception of possibly Singapore and Hong Kong, corruption is pretty much an accepted fact of life (having said that, if not for Lee Kuan Yew, you can be sure that corruption would also be rife in Singapore. One might even allege nepotism, seeing that his son is now the PM).

In general, the populace tolerate corruption, even at the highest level, as long as there some good done for the country - case in point, Malaysia. In some other countries, the people have no choice as protesting would merely result in their deaths.

So while it is fair and good to debate about how bad or good Thaksin is for Thailand, fact is that he will shortly (if not already) be back in power and I believe the average Thai have accepted this and will just go on with their lives.

For Japan to issue the visa is a no brainer. If stereotyping is true, Dems drive M Benz's and BMW's and Audi's and reds drive Toyota Hilux Vigo. If you were the Japanese PM, which group would you prefer to please?

p/s: incidentally, the legal firm, Lee & Lee is actually LKY plus wife and they have been involved in a LOT of Govt contracts over the years.

It is a shame that you are deficient in values and morals even after spending most of your adult life in a western country. I'm sure it is not an inherited trait, but simply the way that you were brought up. Hopefully contact with us and our values might help to change the situation in Asian countries, and instead of some good coming from governments, they might even get to most of it (I despair for ALL, unrealistic!).

I would be interested of any pictures that you may have of any member of the Shinawatra clan in a Hilux Vigo - even looking at one in a show-room. FTM, even a Lexus.

It is your opinion that I am deficient in (your Western) values and morals, so you are of course entitled to it. It is because I have spent (not most) but a large part of my adult life in a western country that I am glad that Asians have not adopted the western values. Lack of respect, no culture to speak of - these are just two examples. Your comment "Hopefully contact with us and our values might help to change the situation in Asian countries" is extremely condescending and one of the main reasons why generally foreigners are not very well liked. You might get lip service from the Nana girls (hello welcome, you hansum man) and there will also be many naive and ignorant Isaan girls who think that marrying a foreigner will give them a better life but the majority of Thais are quite happy to have little to no dealings with arrogant foreigners like you.

Re: Hilux Vigo - your comprehension leaves a lot to be desired. My point is that the Dems are the party of the elites and PT, the party of the poor rural folk, WHO drives Hilux Vigos.

My opinion of your lack of values and morals is based on your own statement of amusement at the concern expressed by persons more gifted. As for you rascist views on Farangs, I don't find them shared by many Thai friends, relatives and acquaintances. Most of them have expressed appreciation that I have tried to learn Thai language, and interested in foreign concepts and ideals. Many of them are quite "foreign" to them, especially the idea that a politician doesn't HAVE to be a thieving lying piece of scum, that in some parts of the world they are actually honorable men.

My comprehension is fine. PTP is the the party for, by and of the Shinawatra clan, not of of whom would be caught dead in a "peasant's car". Swapping one elite for a more avaricious variety will do nothing for this country, as they will shortly discover.

Edited August 23, 2011 by OzMick

[rixalex]

The coup was as illegal. Do anti-Thaksinistas condemn it without caveat?

To state that coups are illegal and wrong, and to be condemned unconditionally, "no ifs, no buts", is a bit like stating that the act of killing a man is illegal and wrong and to be condemned unconditionally, "no ifs, no buts".

If i told you that i shot a man yesterday, would that be all the information you needed to lock me up for the rest of my life, assuming you had the power of judgement, or would you want to know first the circumstances that led to the shooting? If i told you that the man i shot was raping my wife with a gun to her head, would you still consider me equally guilty, cos the law is the law, and if you break it, that is that, no exceptions, simply black and white?

Getting back to the coup, essentially the question is for me, how far should democracy be allowed to be dismantled by a government, before the staging of a coup becomes to some extent, reasonable and justified? Or in your mind, is there no such time?

Corruption under many measures was worse under the Abhisit regime than under any Thaksin regime.

Some examples please.

The freedom of the meida was by all measure worse under the Abhisit regime than under the Thaksin regime.

All measure? What measures are those?

The media seemed quite one-sided during Abhisit's time in power, i would agree, whether this was down to it being forced into this position, or whether it took it largely of its own accord, i'm not so sure. What makes you?

[Crushdepth]

<Comments contributing to off topic discussion deleted.> There is a social contract in rule of law. If the powers that be are corrupt and disregard it there often comes a time where a large part of the population says 'to hell with it' as well.

Fix the governance and you fix the problem. If you tolerate corruption don't look to the law for your defence.

Edited August 25, 2011 by metisdead
Post edited as stated.

[samurai]

In the real world outside the Antithaksinista camp nobody cares. That doesn't mean the are red shirts.

Calling people "antithaksin", as by way of an insult, is akin to calling someone "antiscabies", and speaks a lot about the person who says it and the way that they think.

An insult? How it comes?

Once it was a proud thing to say to be Anti-Thaksin.

Btw. Saw the question?: If the Thaksin visit is "Japan's" "Big Mistake" what are the serious consequences then?

No answer, right?

[ballpoint]

So if the Thaksin visit is "Japan's" "Big Mistake" what are the serious consequences then?

No more news about hello kitty and the muppets in Thailand or what?

In the real world outside the Antithaksinista camp nobody cares. That doesn't mean the are red shirts.

Hello kitty and the muppets. What a perfect description of the PTP.

[rubl]

In the real world outside the Antithaksinista camp nobody cares. That doesn't mean the are red shirts.

Calling people "antithaksin", as by way of an insult, is akin to calling someone "antiscabies", and speaks a lot about the person who says it and the way that they think.

An insult? How it comes?

Once it was a proud thing to say to be Anti-Thaksin.

Btw. Saw the question?: If the Thaksin visit is "Japan's" "Big Mistake" what are the serious consequences then?

No answer, right?

The OP's title is no question, just a statement, also an unsure statement with the 'could be a mistake'. Furthermore there is reasoning within the OP as to why the writer of the editorial thinks so.

PS for those who believe in a cause it is mostly a proud thing to say "I'm a ....". To stick to your rhetoric, it seems so for 'antithaksinista' and 'prothaksinista'

[rixalex]

An insult? How it comes?

Once it was a proud thing to say to be Anti-Thaksin.

Didn't say it was an insult, said it was said by way of an insult. Understand the difference?

Btw. Saw the question?: If the Thaksin visit is "Japan's" "Big Mistake" what are the serious consequences then?

No answer, right?

Serious consequences should be in terms of the Thai government seemingly aiding and abetting a convicted criminal.

[samurai]

Btw. Saw the question?: If the Thaksin visit is "Japan's" "Big Mistake" what are the serious consequences then?

No answer, right?

Serious consequences should be in terms of the Thai government seemingly aiding and abetting a convicted criminal.

But it says Japan's Big Mistake, not Thai government's Big Mistake. Understand the difference?

[rixalex]

But it says Japan's Big Mistake, not Thai government's Big Mistake. Understand the difference?

I was giving you my opinion of the situation. I didn't write the article. Direct your question to the person who did.

[metisdead]

A post containing a possibly copyrighted photo has been removed as well as the replies to that post.

[overhaul38]

I think the bigger mistake was to permit Thaksin to leave Thailand.

[rixalex]

I think the bigger mistake was to permit Thaksin to leave Thailand.

Indeed, and on the ridiculous grounds of a pressing requirement for him to visit the Olympic Games. Perhaps a dying overseas relative might have been due to cause, but a sports event?! Really?! What a joke.

[whybother]

Japan Prime Minister Kan resigns /via@BBCBreaking

Look what Thaksin's done now!!

[Ricardo]

I think the bigger mistake was to permit Thaksin to leave Thailand.

Indeed, and on the ridiculous grounds of a pressing requirement for him to visit the Olympic Games. Perhaps a dying overseas relative might have been due to cause, but a sports event?! Really?! What a joke.

But he promised to come back afterwards, and if the courts can't take the word of a former-PM, then who can be trusted ?

[nurofiend]

Thailand's long-time friend and ally is putting its diplomatic credibility at risk

Who is putting its credibility at risk ?

Japan who owns half of Thai industries ?

Or The Nation who should stop putting young graduates fresh for the university in charge of its editorials ?

Heaven forbid that idealism should replace cronyism !

and heaven forbid that impartiality should replace bias....

[Buchholz]

Thaksin leaves Japan, now in Macao

BANGKOK, 28 August 2011 (NNT) - Self-exiled former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has left Japan and is now in Macao.

Mr Thaksin had met Japanese senior officials and visited the tsunami and quake-hit areas.

During his interview with Kyodo News before leaving Japan, he denied reports of any plan to visit Cambodia.

The former premier said he would go to Macao and then to Dubai, which is now the site of his luxury asylum.

Avoiding corruption charges in his motherland, the 62-year-old billionaire had asked for a special visa to Japan; breaking the law forbidding fugitive to travel into the country.

-- NNT 2011-08-28

Edited August 28, 2011 by Buchholz

[rubl]

...

Mr Thaksin had met Japanese senior officials and visited the tsunami and quake-hit areas.

...

Which Japanese senior officials and what department?