Legendary British Farmer Joe Loses Water-Tight 30-Year Lease In Thailand

[MAJIC]

I get soooo very tired of hearing these same boring stories,Farang has got conned out of his Property, Life savings, Business, etc etc........................

When are Farangs going to wise up, we all see it happening around us all the time?

Thai laws are not in our favour,they are designed for Thais only! and don't kid yourself your Lawyer is the only one that understands Thai law,and your invesments are whatever they might be, legally yours,and the legalities are 100% legally watertight in your favour...............Bullsh*t!

The only way you can have some control over your property,investments,business,etc is:

1. Leave the bulk of your money and investments,BACK IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY..

2. If you want to live in a 5-10 Million baht house with swimming Pool and Tennis Court,......RENT IT

3. Do not get talked into buying a business,it can never really be yours,only 49% so DON'T BUY

4. Never aquire anything that you can't afford to walk away from.

5. Only transfer money into Thailand,as living expenses only.

6. And do you really need to change your means of transport every 1..2..3 years,for the latest model?

7. You can't buy land in your own name,end of story,................NO IFS OR BUTS

So to reiterate: If there is some smart Lawyer who tells you: he knows a legal way around Thai Laws,then best to start running.

Laws can be changed at any time,but don't expect them to be in your favour.

And a key question to ask yourself is,why do you need to try and own a part of Thailand?

Not I hope some desire or need to keep up with the Joneses,they lost their money years ago!

Well, I'm sure glad I never listened to advice like this. I arrived in Thailand empty-handed in my mid-twenties, and 20+ years later -- without bragging too much -- have done very well for myself here.

Well as the system in Thailand is not easy for a Foreiner to make his fortune,its nice to see someone who has been successful.

Perhaps you would care to give us the details of how you did it? and the pitfalls to avoid?

[jimbeam1]

It is a sad story. But, I always say do not buy anything here in the name of a Thai national, that you are not prepared to walk away from. Personally, I own a house up north, in the name of my thai girlfriend (who I have been with for 6 years), and also a car in her name. But, I would be prepared to walk away from both of them, if need be. If things went south with us, I would not expect to get either of them. That is the way to play it here. It is their country, and as we all know they are very protective of it, and intensely nationalistic, when it suits them. So, though I feel bad for this guy, I am not surprised, and he should not be either. Looks like he married the wrong girl.

Why put the car in her name? An unnecessary risk.

jb1

[Richard4849]

I get soooo very tired of hearing these same boring stories,Farang has got conned out of his Property, Life savings, Business, etc etc........................

When are Farangs going to wise up, we all see it happening around us all the time?

Thai laws are not in our favour,they are designed for Thais only! and don't kid yourself your Lawyer is the only one that understands Thai law,and your invesments are whatever they might be, legally yours,and the legalities are 100% legally watertight in your favour...............Bullsh*t!

The only way you can have some control over your property,investments,business,etc is:

1. Leave the bulk of your money and investments,BACK IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY..

2. If you want to live in a 5-10 Million baht house with swimming Pool and Tennis Court,......RENT IT

3. Do not get talked into buying a business,it can never really be yours,only 49% so DON'T BUY

4. Never aquire anything that you can't afford to walk away from.

5. Only transfer money into Thailand,as living expenses only.

6. And do you really need to change your means of transport every 1..2..3 years,for the latest model?

7. You can't buy land in your own name,end of story,................NO IFS OR BUTS

So to reiterate: If there is some smart Lawyer who tells you: he knows a legal way around Thai Laws,then best to start running.

Laws can be changed at any time,but don't expect them to be in your favour.

And a key question to ask yourself is,why do you need to try and own a part of Thailand?

Not I hope some desire or need to keep up with the Joneses,they lost their money years ago!

Well, I'm sure glad I never listened to advice like this. I arrived in Thailand empty-handed in my mid-twenties, and 20+ years later -- without bragging too much -- have done very well for myself here.

Well as the system in Thailand is not easy for a Foreiner to make his fortune,its nice to see someone who has been successful.

Perhaps you would care to give us the details of how you did it? and the pitfalls to avoid?

Stay away from vice-oriented businesses (bars, go-go's, brothels)

A business plan that focuses on the small farang market is likely doomed to failure.

Do everything legally. Keep your nose clean. Treat staff better than you have to. Avoid making enemies. Go out of your way to make friends (and I'm not talking about farang friends).

Keep wives, girlfriends, lovers out of the equation.

Learn the language, for Godssakes.

Have enough capital to take you through a first year without profits.

[fxe1200]

wow this story sounds familiar. Has this kind of thing happened before?

I'd like to have a property in Thailand some day but it sounds like a very bad idea...

I think looking further afield might be a better idea.

Rent a nice place (you can always skip the place, when the neigbourhood changes), buy yourself a motorcycle, have a modest girlfriend, go diving, read good books, all in all enjoy life, but do not start a business!

Thats all you can do in Thailand, and whoever is asking for more shall bear the consequences.

[Richard4849]

wow this story sounds familiar. Has this kind of thing happened before?

I'd like to have a property in Thailand some day but it sounds like a very bad idea...

I think looking further afield might be a better idea.

Rent a nice place (you can always skip the place, when the neigbourhood changes), buy yourself a motorcycle, have a modest girlfriend, go diving, read good books, all in all enjoy life, but do not start a business!

Thats all you can do in Thailand, and whoever is asking for more shall bear the consequences.

Or, possibly, get rich.

[fxe1200]

wow this story sounds familiar. Has this kind of thing happened before?

I'd like to have a property in Thailand some day but it sounds like a very bad idea...

I think looking further afield might be a better idea.

Rent a nice place (you can always skip the place, when the neigbourhood changes), buy yourself a motorcycle, have a modest girlfriend, go diving, read good books, all in all enjoy life, but do not start a business!

Thats all you can do in Thailand, and whoever is asking for more shall bear the consequences.

Or, possibly, get rich.

You show me how that works and I share with you 50/50!

[Richard4849]

wow this story sounds familiar. Has this kind of thing happened before?

I'd like to have a property in Thailand some day but it sounds like a very bad idea...

I think looking further afield might be a better idea.

Rent a nice place (you can always skip the place, when the neigbourhood changes), buy yourself a motorcycle, have a modest girlfriend, go diving, read good books, all in all enjoy life, but do not start a business!

Thats all you can do in Thailand, and whoever is asking for more shall bear the consequences.

Or, possibly, get rich.

You show me how that works and I share with you 50/50!

What do I need you for, exactly?

[blabla1]

To all readers wanting to come and live or retire in Thailand, it is really a great place, i avoid long faced farangs with young girlfriends when i can, a whinger will whinge in his own country and any country,because they are whingers, Thais think of their family first, to have a big house in the village for mama and a daughter who has married well, it's almost a girls duty to get what she can from a so called wealthy man, in general, you take care of a girl and take care of their family, you'll be ok, BUT!!!! if you ever cheat on them,which is the usual unspoken culprit here, say bye bye to everything,they will not stand for that, then you here the whingers,crying' she took everything' !!! they deserve respect from us, imagine having to sleep with a fat old western woman over 60, when you are 26 to 35, crikey, you would'nt sleep with one your own age, as for law and order, well they need to grow. this is a developing country after all, corruption is a daily scenario here,they haven't developed enough to keep it hidden like in western countries!

I love it here (Chiang mai) i have had businesses and success, but i came with nothing,so anything above 1Baht is success!!! enjoy reading this forum!

[thaibeachlovers]

I get soooo very tired of hearing these same boring stories,Farang has got conned out of his Property, Life savings, Business, etc etc........................

When are Farangs going to wise up, we all see it happening around us all the time?

Thai laws are not in our favour,they are designed for Thais only! and don't kid yourself your Lawyer is the only one that understands Thai law,and your invesments are whatever they might be, legally yours,and the legalities are 100% legally watertight in your favour...............Bullsh*t!

The only way you can have some control over your property,investments,business,etc is:

1. Leave the bulk of your money and investments,BACK IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY..

2. If you want to live in a 5-10 Million baht house with swimming Pool and Tennis Court,......RENT IT

3. Do not get talked into buying a business,it can never really be yours,only 49% so DON'T BUY

4. Never aquire anything that you can't afford to walk away from.

5. Only transfer money into Thailand,as living expenses only.

6. And do you really need to change your means of transport every 1..2..3 years,for the latest model?

7. You can't buy land in your own name,end of story,................NO IFS OR BUTS

So to reiterate: If there is some smart Lawyer who tells you: he knows a legal way around Thai Laws,then best to start running.

Laws can be changed at any time,but don't expect them to be in your favour.

And a key question to ask yourself is,why do you need to try and own a part of Thailand?

Not I hope some desire or need to keep up with the Joneses,they lost their money years ago!

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Yet still they come, thinking that THEIR wife/ GF is different!

Still, given that the success rate for western marriages is about 50% ( and falling? ), if men didn't want to believe the lie there wouldn't be many marriages anywhere.

I do think though, that at least in LOS, the law is on the farang side in so much as if he hasn't put anything in his wife's name the law doesn't automatically take 50% of his assets to give to her regardless of whether she was a good wife or not.

My tip for a good marriage in LOS is put nothing in her name, and don't even tell her how much money you have, but stick to whatever monetary arrangement was made to induce her to marry you in the first place ( and it shouldn't be more than you can afford to lose ).

It also helps to avoid living near her relatives. My wife's sister is always giving her a hard time because I don't give money to her family. Luckily, she doesn't live with us, but even the rare visits are becoming a trial.

If that seems hard- that's your problem. I stopped believing in "love" as a reason to get married about the time my first partner ( whom I "loved" ) managed to remove most of my assets to her own benefit, and that was in a western country.

[whatproblem]

i think we need pictures of these wives/girlfriends so others dont get had. i have lived and been married in thailand for more than 6years ,if my wife conned me like that i would be back in england before the first bullet hit her

[londoedan]

Stay away from vice-oriented businesses (bars, go-go's, brothels)

A business plan that focuses on the small farang market is likely doomed to failure.

Do everything legally. Keep your nose clean. Treat staff better than you have to. Avoid making enemies. Go out of your way to make friends (and I'm not talking about farang friends).

Keep wives, girlfriends, lovers out of the equation.

Learn the language, for Godssakes.

Have enough capital to take you through a first year without profits.

All of this appears very good advice and I wouldn't want to disagree with any of it.

What I wonder is whether any of the above posters believe it is possible to run a bar business purely as a side-line. Noot to make money, but to just break-even in the short, medium and long-terms.

The reason I ask is that although I am not a big drinker; I have always fancied running a bar near a beach in a tropical country.

I'm 48 now and tried early retirement about 1.5 years ago.After about a year I got pretty bored - hence I am back at work now. In about 1-2 years time i would like to try retirement again and think that renting and running a bar might be fun.

Any advice appreciated.

Simon

[witsawakorn]

.. and we find ourselves with the usual associations:

3rd world country ...

scams ...

lawlessness ...

ripoffs ...

lies ...

Yet the guy still has 300,000 baht available to buy into a new lease plus 12,000 baht/month ( wondor if he read the new contract) but claims that he is impoverished and hence his financial obligations to his kids are being met by the British taxpayer. Is that what you meant by scams, lawlessness ripoffs, lies? He took his kids back to UK and left them in care of the social service foster care systems because of financial difficulties. He sounds like a good candidate for the Jeremy Kyle Show and he would probably not come out too well Sorry but a guy who goes to court and claims that he didn't know what he was signing ( referring to the lease) yet was supposed to have been a successful businessman sounds a bit suspect to me.

[ludditeman]

It is a sad story. But, I always say do not buy anything here in the name of a Thai national, that you are not prepared to walk away from. Personally, I own a house up north, in the name of my thai girlfriend (who I have been with for 6 years), and also a car in her name. But, I would be prepared to walk away from both of them, if need be. If things went south with us, I would not expect to get either of them. That is the way to play it here. It is their country, and as we all know they are very protective of it, and intensely nationalistic, when it suits them. So, though I feel bad for this guy, I am not surprised, and he should not be either. Looks like he married the wrong girl.

Why did you put a car in the gfs name?

(EDIT: @ Jimbeam ...... SNAP!)

Edited August 25, 2011 by ludditeman

[Gary A]

I do/did know one guy who had the answer for the bar business. His then girlfriend wanted him to open a bar and she would run it.

He leased a three story shophouse for 9,000 baht per month and made himself a nice apartment upstairs. He made a bar on the ground floor. The deal was that he would pay the utilities and she would have no expenses except the cost of the products. his benefit was free beer for himself. She did have ice cold beer in a large icebox because a refrigerated cooler cost too much and would run up his electric bill.

The poor girl had no idea how much the old man could drink. She lasted about six months and gave up. It was no problem for him to find another girl to take over with the same deal. He went through three girls before he drank himself to death.

[housepainter]

With experience some of us can claim to have seen it all before. In fact we've been there but made sure we didn't do that

Recently, to add grist to the Thai mill, a government minister said how he intended to remove ALL foreign owned property. All, because it all was illegally held. But those with a pecuniary interest on here don't want to acknowledge that as the property market would implode over night.

Furthermore, ask yourself why when the world is in recession Pattaya is throwing up more condos than Walking Street drunks throw up their dinner. Pattaya a micro thriving economy independent of the rest of the world OR a haven for money laundering. Some time relality bites.

Now let's consider that; reality. There is a clear intention amongst Thais with the clout to repossess all land and property illegally owned by foreigners. And foreigners do not live quietly up country. They take the prime land, in the prime areas, where Thais have missed the boat and the rich farangs simply sail theres.

Those of you who consider it possible to legally own anything other than your pants and vest in Thailand:

a] haven't been here long enough

b] have 'vested' interest.

Pun intended.

Now the fat Thai pigeon comes home to roost and another sod gets turned over. In this case substitute turkeys for pigeons.

It is not the Thai wife ................ oh, terrible woman, a bad 'un, unlucky etc etc.

It is a Thai system where lawyers will act dishonestly and the establishment is zenophobic and anti-foreigner. Indeed, it is unpatriotic to accept, welcome or encourage foreign anything.

I remember once attending a Pattaya expats forum meeting where a Thai lawyer was the 'expert' invited speaker. He proudly told how he could wriggle free from any legal agreement in favour of the client.

The room was silent in awe of the prospect of getting what they wanted. I then asked the question that if he could do such, then what about the next lawyer, and the one after that? Compounding this is the fact that the lawyers plea bargain, agree, compromise on outcomes, collect their fees regardless and move on.

The client loses as some one must.

And yet the yarn we asked to believe is that regulations could be wriggled out of. They can. But, if it happens one the one hand then it also happens on the other. Hence, what goes around ends up back in Thai hands and the foreigner is left as he came - only with the little he came with. If he's lucky. More often it is with an emptied bank balance.

Losers believe they can buy a company that has no employees, pays no taxes and holds no stock. Tell that to any tax collector. These virtual businesses have enabled foreigners to hold property and land illegally; no foreigner can own land.

The judgement day has been deferred for so long now and yet anyone sitting in a house they call their own is simply parking their backside on a bomb and expecting it not to explode - despite the ticking sound.

Let's be clear. The wealth invested in Thailand is far too attractive to the greed mentality of the corrupt Thai system. I can not understand why the mansions of Pattaya and Phuket have not been seized continuously over the years. The constant rebuttals and protestations that no such thing can / will / does happen simply serves to increase complacency and disbelief.

And yet those who purport that property and land is not being repossesed by the State also do not believe in gravity, a circular world or that a man actually walked on the moon. But fairies do exist.

Thailand is a place to visit and cherry pick. It is not a stable, reliable or profitable place to be. It remains third world and heaven only help you if you become ill or ever cross the Police. Then you will end up being the story on here. And there is no happy ending.

Focus on that.

There is no happy ending.

[mdechgan]

Same old.

Non-Thais are pretty much at a disadvantage in this country no matter what one does.

[steveromagnino]

One cannot win from the Mafia. Charoen Pokhand, major sponsor of the Democrat Party and Yellow Shirt and partly to blame for the Southern Unrest is in bed with criminals like Suthep.

Sorry, CP supports both parties, but had a cabinet member with TRT and is a major backer of TRT/PPP/PT - you will recall:

- restrictions on hypermarkets (to support 7:11)

- chicken for military armaments barter deals (to support CP chicken sales)

- chicken flu culling on non closed system farms (CP runs closed systems)

- FTAs with China, Australia, NZ, etc (to support CP)

- lying to the EU about the state of chicken flue (to help prop up the chicken industry)

- current 3G deregulation alongside AIS (same family)

It's a bit off subject, but it sure gets boring reading things that are effectively opposite to the truth (as in this case).

As for the poor bloke in this case, he probably wasn't run out of business by CP who couldn't care less about what sounds like a tiny operation (which most of us have never heard of despite his legendary status) but by losing the land. As for profitability...turkey farming seems way too much like hard work as a career; easier on the side of doing something else.

Edited August 25, 2011 by steveromagnino

[Thakkar]

With experience some of us can claim to have seen it all before. In fact we've been there but made sure we didn't do that

Recently, to add grist to the Thai mill, a government minister said how he intended to remove ALL foreign owned property. All, because it all was illegally held. But those with a pecuniary interest on here don't want to acknowledge that as the property market would implode over night.

Furthermore, ask yourself why when the world is in recession Pattaya is throwing up more condos than Walking Street drunks throw up their dinner. Pattaya a micro thriving economy independent of the rest of the world OR a haven for money laundering. Some time relality bites.

Now let's consider that; reality. There is a clear intention amongst Thais with the clout to repossess all land and property illegally owned by foreigners. And foreigners do not live quietly up country. They take the prime land, in the prime areas, where Thais have missed the boat and the rich farangs simply sail theres.

Those of you who consider it possible to legally own anything other than your pants and vest in Thailand:

a] haven't been here long enough

b] have 'vested' interest.

Pun intended.

Now the fat Thai pigeon comes home to roost and another sod gets turned over. In this case substitute turkeys for pigeons.

It is not the Thai wife ................ oh, terrible woman, a bad 'un, unlucky etc etc.

It is a Thai system where lawyers will act dishonestly and the establishment is zenophobic and anti-foreigner. Indeed, it is unpatriotic to accept, welcome or encourage foreign anything.

I remember once attending a Pattaya expats forum meeting where a Thai lawyer was the 'expert' invited speaker. He proudly told how he could wriggle free from any legal agreement in favour of the client.

The room was silent in awe of the prospect of getting what they wanted. I then asked the question that if he could do such, then what about the next lawyer, and the one after that? Compounding this is the fact that the lawyers plea bargain, agree, compromise on outcomes, collect their fees regardless and move on.

The client loses as some one must.

And yet the yarn we asked to believe is that regulations could be wriggled out of. They can. But, if it happens one the one hand then it also happens on the other. Hence, what goes around ends up back in Thai hands and the foreigner is left as he came - only with the little he came with. If he's lucky. More often it is with an emptied bank balance.

Losers believe they can buy a company that has no employees, pays no taxes and holds no stock. Tell that to any tax collector. These virtual businesses have enabled foreigners to hold property and land illegally; no foreigner can own land.

The judgement day has been deferred for so long now and yet anyone sitting in a house they call their own is simply parking their backside on a bomb and expecting it not to explode - despite the ticking sound.

Let's be clear. The wealth invested in Thailand is far too attractive to the greed mentality of the corrupt Thai system. I can not understand why the mansions of Pattaya and Phuket have not been seized continuously over the years. The constant rebuttals and protestations that no such thing can / will / does happen simply serves to increase complacency and disbelief.

And yet those who purport that property and land is not being repossesed by the State also do not believe in gravity, a circular world or that a man actually walked on the moon. But fairies do exist.

Thailand is a place to visit and cherry pick. It is not a stable, reliable or profitable place to be. It remains third world and heaven only help you if you become ill or ever cross the Police. Then you will end up being the story on here. And there is no happy ending.

Focus on that.

There is no happy ending.

I bet you feel like lighting up a cigarette right about now.

T

[Richard4849]

One cannot win from the Mafia. Charoen Pokhand, major sponsor of the Democrat Party and Yellow Shirt and partly to blame for the Southern Unrest is in bed with criminals like Suthep.

- restrictions on hypermarkets (to support 7:11)

Isn't CP also in the hypermarket business themselves, as a joint venture partner with Tesco in the Tesco-Lotus chain? I find it hard they would support restrictions on hypermarkets when they are in this very business (big time) themselves...

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

The only way you can have some control over your property,investments,business,etc is:

1. Leave the bulk of your money and investments,BACK IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY.. ✔ Check

2. If you want to live in a 5-10 Million baht house with swimming Pool and Tennis Court,......RENT IT ✔ Check

3. Do not get talked into buying a business,it can never really be yours,only 49% so DON'T BUY ✔ Check

4. Never aquire anything that you can't afford to walk away from. ✔ Check

5. Only transfer money into Thailand,as living expenses only. ✔ Check

6. And do you really need to change your means of transport every 1..2..3 years,for the latest model? ✔ Check

7. You can't buy land in your own name,end of story,................NO IFS OR BUTS ✔ Check

<snip>

Thanks, MAJIC, I feel much better now! Although I think my 8 year old pick-up needs replacing soon. Maybe next year.

[Oliver Reed]

Children back home in England in government care?..Britain heading for double dip recession?..Thanks to amongst others, people like farmer Joe who shirk their responsibilities and pile them on to the over burdened welfare state..Karma for you Joe, as a farmer, you are now reaping what you sow...no pun intended

How can you say this, you don't know the FULL story, or do you? He might think that this was the best for the children. He might be planing to take his children back as soon as he has sorted his life out. I would rather leave my children in the UK than on some farm in the back of nowhere. I hope he can recover, and get his kids and his life back together soon. Good luck Joe.

No i guess i know as much as you do about the story, and have commented on the assumption that it has a degree of accuracy, afterall, this is what the forum does..but refreshing to know that you think putting your kids in care back in the UK is an OK scenario to be involved in, tell me what makes you think that the welfare state of the UK, already overloaded with bogus claimers and unjust claims, should foot the bill for a father who doesnt want to support his kids?...totally wrong, and left for the british hard working taxpayer to pick up the cost...I dont condone the con that oe has suffered, but i would lambast the bloke to his face for abandoning his kids...unforgivable!

[DonaldBattles]

I have know Farmer Joe for many years as I used to buy turkeys from him. A Thai woman and a bribed Thai Lawyer is a kiss of death. If you think that you ever own anything in this country you are frigging crazy. If had a money that people have stolen from me for the past 28 years I would be rich. If you think that you own something in Thailand you ar super crazy. Liquidate and take the money and run. Please don't ban this statement as you might be afraid of the government screwing you also.

[JetsetBkk]

I have know Farmer Joe for many years as I used to buy turkeys from him. A Thai woman and a bribed Thai Lawyer is a kiss of death. If you think that you ever own anything in this country you are frigging crazy. If had a money that people have stolen from me for the past 28 years I would be rich. If you think that you own something in Thailand you ar super crazy. Liquidate and take the money and run. Please don't ban this statement as you might be afraid of the government screwing you also.

Hiya Don! We still miss you in Rawai. Chok Dee!

[Kimera]

Too bad for him... but my lawyer told me two things about buying property which I think this guy did not follow

1) Never believe in the lawyer of your partner, always hire your own lawyer to double check, officially translate and have official photocopies

2) Never let your Thai wife have the papers of your property, whether land or appartment, even if in her name, as that is exactly what you end up: She sells it away and you end up on the street with nothing in his pocket...

Have the deeds or not she can have them replaced same result

[luvU2much500THB]

Too bad for him... but my lawyer told me two things about buying property which I think this guy did not follow

1) Never believe in the lawyer of your partner, always hire your own lawyer to double check, officially translate and have official photocopies

2) Never let your Thai wife have the papers of your property, whether land or appartment, even if in her name, as that is exactly what you end up: She sells it away and you end up on the street with nothing in his pocket...

Have the deeds or not she can have them replaced same result

Happend to a friend of me. He had that chanote or whats it called in the save and she went get them replaced,

[ALFREDO]

I get soooo very tired of hearing these same boring stories,Farang has got conned out of his Property, Life savings, Business, etc etc........................

When are Farangs going to wise up, we all see it happening around us all the time?

Thai laws are not in our favour,they are designed for Thais only! and don't kid yourself your Lawyer is the only one that understands Thai law,and your invesments are whatever they might be, legally yours,and the legalities are 100% legally watertight in your favour...............Bullsh*t!

The only way you can have some control over your property,investments,business,etc is:

1. Leave the bulk of your money and investments,BACK IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY..

2. If you want to live in a 5-10 Million baht house with swimming Pool and Tennis Court,......RENT IT

3. Do not get talked into buying a business,it can never really be yours,only 49% so DON'T BUY

4. Never aquire anything that you can't afford to walk away from.

5. Only transfer money into Thailand,as living expenses only.

6. And do you really need to change your means of transport every 1..2..3 years,for the latest model?

7. You can't buy land in your own name,end of story,................NO IFS OR BUTS

So to reiterate: If there is some smart Lawyer who tells you: he knows a legal way around Thai Laws,then best to start running.

Laws can be changed at any time,but don't expect them to be in your favour.

And a key question to ask yourself is,why do you need to try and own a part of Thailand?

Not I hope some desire or need to keep up with the Joneses,they lost their money years ago!

Well, I'm sure glad I never listened to advice like this. I arrived in Thailand empty-handed in my mid-twenties, and 20+ years later -- without bragging too much -- have done very well for myself here.

-Majic-

Wise advise! For now and the future.

-Richard4849-

So you one of the few who can write that!

Can you tell where the fortune was made and in what business?

I would say, it was easyer to make it positive 20+ years ago! At least in the Tourist business.

The owner of the famous K-Hotel in Patong and the Pla Beach club in Surin Beach Mr.Werner Karasek can say the same you say. (From the early-mid 80is he came)

But, so he told me, he would nothing start now, at least not in Phuket/Patong.

Edited August 30, 2011 by ALFREDO

[plumeria]

Depressing .. but not unique ... actually always had the impression that farang was not allowed to be involved in any kind of farming or agricultural business in general

Your impression is quite right.

[plumeria]

I get soooo very tired of hearing these same boring stories,Farang has got conned out of his Property, Life savings, Business, etc etc........................

When are Farangs going to wise up, we all see it happening around us all the time?

Thai laws are not in our favour,they are designed for Thais only! and don't kid yourself your Lawyer is the only one that understands Thai law,and your invesments are whatever they might be, legally yours,and the legalities are 100% legally watertight in your favour...............Bullsh*t!

The only way you can have some control over your property,investments,business,etc is:

1. Leave the bulk of your money and investments,BACK IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY..

2. If you want to live in a 5-10 Million baht house with swimming Pool and Tennis Court,......RENT IT

3. Do not get talked into buying a business,it can never really be yours,only 49% so DON'T BUY

4. Never aquire anything that you can't afford to walk away from.

5. Only transfer money into Thailand,as living expenses only.

6. And do you really need to change your means of transport every 1..2..3 years,for the latest model?

7. You can't buy land in your own name,end of story,................NO IFS OR BUTS

So to reiterate: If there is some smart Lawyer who tells you: he knows a legal way around Thai Laws,then best to start running.

Laws can be changed at any time,but don't expect them to be in your favour.

And a key question to ask yourself is,why do you need to try and own a part of Thailand?

Not I hope some desire or need to keep up with the Joneses,they lost their money years ago!

Well, I'm sure glad I never listened to advice like this. I arrived in Thailand empty-handed in my mid-twenties, and 20+ years later -- without bragging too much -- have done very well for myself here.

-Majic-

Wise advise! For now and the future.

-Richard4849-

So you one of the few who can write that!

Can you tell where the fortune was made and in what business?

I would say, it was easyer to make it positive 20+ years ago! At least in the Tourist business.

The owner of the famous K-Hotel in Patong and the Pla Beach club in Surin Beach Mr.Werner Karasek can say the same you say. (From the early-mid 80is he came)

But, so he told me, he would nothing start now, at least not in Phuket/Patong.

I think MAJIC's 7-point summary is pretty good advice based on my 38 years here.

But there are ways to make it a little more difficult for somebody to pull the rug out from under your farang feet.

And last I heard Americans could own 100% of a business. When did that change?

Edited September 2, 2011 by plumeria

[PoPanda]

Any farang that puts 22 rai of land in the name of a Thai wife is insane. Do you think she married that old goat for love and companionship ? Thais marry all farang for money...nothing else.

Really? That's funny considering my salary isn't bad here yet my fiance still earns 3 times what I do. Your comment is degrading to both parties. You are saying that all women here are theives (including my fiance) and by proxy all expats are probably stupid for marrying them in the first place.

[evanson]

With experience some of us can claim to have seen it all before. In fact we've been there but made sure we didn't do that

Recently, to add grist to the Thai mill, a government minister said how he intended to remove ALL foreign owned property. All, because it all was illegally held. But those with a pecuniary interest on here don't want to acknowledge that as the property market would implode over night.

Furthermore, ask yourself why when the world is in recession Pattaya is throwing up more condos than Walking Street drunks throw up their dinner. Pattaya a micro thriving economy independent of the rest of the world OR a haven for money laundering. Some time relality bites.

Now let's consider that; reality. There is a clear intention amongst Thais with the clout to repossess all land and property illegally owned by foreigners. And foreigners do not live quietly up country. They take the prime land, in the prime areas, where Thais have missed the boat and the rich farangs simply sail theres.

Those of you who consider it possible to legally own anything other than your pants and vest in Thailand:

a] haven't been here long enough

b] have 'vested' interest.

Pun intended.

Now the fat Thai pigeon comes home to roost and another sod gets turned over. In this case substitute turkeys for pigeons.

It is not the Thai wife ................ oh, terrible woman, a bad 'un, unlucky etc etc.

It is a Thai system where lawyers will act dishonestly and the establishment is zenophobic and anti-foreigner. Indeed, it is unpatriotic to accept, welcome or encourage foreign anything.

I remember once attending a Pattaya expats forum meeting where a Thai lawyer was the 'expert' invited speaker. He proudly told how he could wriggle free from any legal agreement in favour of the client.

The room was silent in awe of the prospect of getting what they wanted. I then asked the question that if he could do such, then what about the next lawyer, and the one after that? Compounding this is the fact that the lawyers plea bargain, agree, compromise on outcomes, collect their fees regardless and move on.

The client loses as some one must.

And yet the yarn we asked to believe is that regulations could be wriggled out of. They can. But, if it happens one the one hand then it also happens on the other. Hence, what goes around ends up back in Thai hands and the foreigner is left as he came - only with the little he came with. If he's lucky. More often it is with an emptied bank balance.

Losers believe they can buy a company that has no employees, pays no taxes and holds no stock. Tell that to any tax collector. These virtual businesses have enabled foreigners to hold property and land illegally; no foreigner can own land.

The judgement day has been deferred for so long now and yet anyone sitting in a house they call their own is simply parking their backside on a bomb and expecting it not to explode - despite the ticking sound.

Let's be clear. The wealth invested in Thailand is far too attractive to the greed mentality of the corrupt Thai system. I can not understand why the mansions of Pattaya and Phuket have not been seized continuously over the years. The constant rebuttals and protestations that no such thing can / will / does happen simply serves to increase complacency and disbelief.

And yet those who purport that property and land is not being repossesed by the State also do not believe in gravity, a circular world or that a man actually walked on the moon. But fairies do exist.

Thailand is a place to visit and cherry pick. It is not a stable, reliable or profitable place to be. It remains third world and heaven only help you if you become ill or ever cross the Police. Then you will end up being the story on here. And there is no happy ending.

Focus on that.

There is no happy ending.

I bet you feel like lighting up a cigarette right about now.

T

Christ On A Bike, this has been Done To DEATH on this forum, the most sensible (and largely ignored) post was that if they start their 'whipping up xenophobia of the Thai masses, then all those lawyers/accounts and government tax collection agencies (for they must all pay SOME tax, no matter how small) together with the Thai nominees, will be deemed complicit in this so called 'fraudulent circumvention of, haha, Thai Law).

Enough already.