Expat Living Costs

[RubbaJohnny]

Trying to plan ahead by thinking out loud,please excuse my ignorance of finance

As real retirement (unrelated to the visa issue which valid for just a year is an interesting reflection of local forecast of how long before your broke!0

I'd appreciate local advice

1 In your area(specify please) have prices risen in baht this year

2 Do you think the baht will continue to rise versus

A) Australian $

US Dollar

C) Sterling

D) fall against gold tho not as markedly as the others.

I suppose US recession and Euro debacle may pop Chinese bubble but internal events here do not seem to rock the baht,why is that.

I have saving ,investments and pension spread across these and remaining part in UK and Thai banks earning virtually zero but of course handy for visas ,immediate emergency access.I am not seeking share advise nor bonds (tho wish Id piled into gold of course).

I find it surprising that many things bar fuel and land in remote C Rai are almost the same as a decade ago ,while my wife tells me groceries and utliites are on the up.I guess there is inflation n the long run everywhere.

Well my core question is should I bring funds in now as despite floods coups riots Tsunamis never see good old days of 40 to $ and 70 to pound like when brought in for house barely 5 years back.I guess our asset has appreciated and probably doubled in $ terms but as I now realize with I hope my final retirement home its only cash when you sell it.

Edited August 25, 2011 by RubbaJohnny

[Soutpeel]

"Trying to plan ahead by thinking out loud,please excuse my ignorance of finance"

You are as ignorant as the so called financial experts, no one knows what will happen medium to long term, and and one who says they do is talking through their bottom.

[Naam]

"Trying to plan ahead by thinking out loud,please excuse my ignorance of finance"

You are as ignorant as the so called financial experts, no one knows what will happen medium to long term, and and one who says they do is talking through their bottom.

BINGO!

[vpi78]

"Trying to plan ahead by thinking out loud,please excuse my ignorance of finance"

You are as ignorant as the so called financial experts, no one knows what will happen medium to long term, and and one who says they do is talking through their bottom.

Agreed, ignorant but not stupid.

OP, if you are going to retire here, you need to currency hedge. There are many ways to do it but one way is to invest in capital assets in the country in which you retires. That would apply anywhere, including Thailand. So, e.g., purchase a Condo. If your wife is Thai build a home.

Now that will get a conversation going and many of the responders will be nitwits warning about foreigners being ripped off by Thais ... and it does happen. But like all news, you mostly hear only about the bad news and although I have no data on it (neither do the nitwits) there are far more successes than failures in just my observations.

You can invest in Thai banking instruments that yield 3 - 3.5% now, but that doesn't even keep up with inflation and then there is the whole red herring issue of trusting Thai banks. After the last 3 years do you really trust Western banks?

Any way, the Thai baht is more likely to move along with Asian currencies such as the Chinese Yuan then it is Western currencies going forward, but that is just a guess also. Take the guesswork out of it and figure out a way comfortable to you to move some assets into the currency of the country in which you are retiring.

Now, I can hardly wait for the first response that says something like, "Just use the search function."

[lovelomsak]

It all depends on how much you care to risk and how much you want secured. Different people different degrees in these matters.Also depends on your personal knowledge. For the average guy retiring here my feelings are, put 800,000 in the bank for visa. This 800,000 also is emergency fund if needed so no other cash need be brought over. Leave all your money and investments in your home country. Why anyone wants to play with their money in retirement is a mystery to me. If you are retired and have pensions and investments you will always have enough for Thailand if you maintain your bank balance of 800,000.

Since coming here to Thailand i have seen many guys come. The ones that seem to be the happiest or last any length of time are the ones who rent,donot invest and are single.

In answer to your first question

eggs have gone up 30%

pork up 30 baht a kilo.

housing has doubled in 5 years.

Rice has shot up but cannot remember numbers sorry.

Second question I donot wish to share my opinions of it.

[PattayaParent]

It all depends on how much you care to risk and how much you want secured. Different people different degrees in these matters.Also depends on your personal knowledge. For the average guy retiring here my feelings are, put 800,000 in the bank for visa. This 800,000 also is emergency fund if needed so no other cash need be brought over. Leave all your money and investments in your home country. Why anyone wants to play with their money in retirement is a mystery to me. If you are retired and have pensions and investments you will always have enough for Thailand if you maintain your bank balance of 800,000.

Since coming here to Thailand i have seen many guys come. The ones that seem to be the happiest or last any length of time are the ones who rent,donot invest and are single.

In answer to your first question

eggs have gone up 30%

pork up 30 baht a kilo.

housing has doubled in 5 years.

Rice has shot up but cannot remember numbers sorry.

Second question I donot wish to share my opinions of it.

Rents have dropped 30%!

[Firefan]

OP already own a house in Thailand - and is married (Thai) always helps with the reply; if one bothers to read the post...

Prices here are going up about 5%/year a I see it over the last 10+ years. (except for a Coke at 7-11!)

Owning a home will already help as a hedge against inflation.

Personally I believe that most Asian currencies will only strengthen against the Western currencies. In the long run all paper(fiat) currencies will lose out to gold. (But in the long run we will all be dead ).

That said; the decision does not have to be an "all or nothing" decision. Diversify both when comes to asset classes, as well as currencies and regional exposure.

Cheers!

[lovelomsak]

It all depends on how much you care to risk and how much you want secured. Different people different degrees in these matters.Also depends on your personal knowledge. For the average guy retiring here my feelings are, put 800,000 in the bank for visa. This 800,000 also is emergency fund if needed so no other cash need be brought over. Leave all your money and investments in your home country. Why anyone wants to play with their money in retirement is a mystery to me. If you are retired and have pensions and investments you will always have enough for Thailand if you maintain your bank balance of 800,000.

Since coming here to Thailand i have seen many guys come. The ones that seem to be the happiest or last any length of time are the ones who rent,donot invest and are single.

In answer to your first question

eggs have gone up 30%

pork up 30 baht a kilo.

housing has doubled in 5 years.

Rice has shot up but cannot remember numbers sorry.

Second question I donot wish to share my opinions of it.

Rents have dropped 30%!

I already said renting was best. In my area no drop in rents but I was referring to the cost of purchasing house has doubled in the last 5 years I quess i wrote it poorly sorry. Or were you just supporting my statement?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

One thing to be aware of, in terms of deciding where to place one's bank deposits, is that the Thai government's bank insurance deposit scheme starting in August 2012 will have a new and lower insured deposits limit of 1 million baht (about $33,000 U.S.) per account holder per bank.

The insured amount had been unlimited prior to this month, when it dropped to 50 million per account holder per bank, and then will drop again to the lower 1 million baht per account holder per bank amount one year from now. The comparable limit in the U.S. had been $100,000 per account and lately has been increased to $250,000 U.S. per FDIC insured account.

http://www.thailawforum.com/thai-deposit-insurance-law.html

Meanwhile, owning a condo in Thailand is fine and legal... right up until the time (not likely, but it could happen) that the government changes the visa rules in a way that makes it impossible or impractical for the owner to continue to live in the country.

[Semper]

2 Do you think the baht will continue to rise versus

A) Australian $

US Dollar

C) Sterling

Yes to all.

[GreenSnapper]

Thai Banks are quite save, I would not worry about them going bankrupt.

More to worry are dishonest employees, the mai pen rai attitude and the general lack of any legal protection for the "alien".

Therefore the advice above to hold up to around 800K in Thailand is very good. Do not bring more into the country. It is also a hassle to bring money out, if you ever wish so.

Then don't buy a condo for rent/income here. Huge numbers of condos in BKK are empty for a long time, and talking Pattaya, while they build new condos at every corner, the agents are desperate to find a renter. Building quality is also quite low and maintenance often neglected.

If you want to hedge against falling Western currencies, bring your money to Singapore. This is a save place and no nonsense people as so common in Thailand. The Thai Baht and SGD do not fluctuate from each other so much. Thus if Western currencies go further down, SGD and Baht will go up. On the other hand, if there is a major crash in Thailand SGD will hold its value and get stronger vs. Thai Baht

Short term bond funds in Singapore may give you a moderate return of 3-5% per year.

[soomak]

OP already own a house in Thailand - and is married (Thai) always helps with the reply; if one bothers to read the post...

Prices here are going up about 5%/year a I see it over the last 10+ years. (except for a Coke at 7-11!)

Owning a home will already help as a hedge against inflation.

Personally I believe that most Asian currencies will only strengthen against the Western currencies. In the long run all paper(fiat) currencies will lose out to gold. (But in the long run we will all be dead ).

That said; the decision does not have to be an "all or nothing" decision. Diversify both when comes to asset classes, as well as currencies and regional exposure.

Cheers!

According to Wikipedia, the prices in Thailand have gone up 30% over the past ten years (2001 - 2010)

That's slightly less than 3% per year.

You can get 3% or more on your savings in a Thai bank, so that will protect you against the normal rate of inflation.

[F1fanatic]

OP already own a house in Thailand - and is married (Thai) always helps with the reply; if one bothers to read the post...

Prices here are going up about 5%/year a I see it over the last 10+ years. (except for a Coke at 7-11!)

Owning a home will already help as a hedge against inflation.

Personally I believe that most Asian currencies will only strengthen against the Western currencies. In the long run all paper(fiat) currencies will lose out to gold. (But in the long run we will all be dead ).

That said; the decision does not have to be an "all or nothing" decision. Diversify both when comes to asset classes, as well as currencies and regional exposure.

Cheers!

According to Wikipedia, the prices in Thailand have gone up 30% over the past ten years (2001 - 2010)

That's slightly less than 3% per year.

You can get 3% or more on your savings in a Thai bank, so that will protect you against the normal rate of inflation.

Which bank and which type of account?

[meatboy]

anyone who worries about currency fluctuation and price rises if you want my advice dont come :jap:

[newbepat]

Where can I get 3% or more in a Thai bank?

Quote : You can get 3% or more on your savings in a Thai bank, so that will protect you against the normal rate of inflation.

Edited August 27, 2011 by newbepat

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Check the various Thai bank web sites, and often the promotional banners posted around branches and in the malls where banks have mini-branches...

Bangkok Bank, 11 month, time deposit, minimum 200,000 baht.... 3.75% per annum...

http://www.bangkokba...1%20months.aspx

And, a recap of Siam Commercial's recent fixed deposit rates for varying terms...

http://www.scb.co.th/en/news/2011-07-18/nws-110708-rate

BTW, the Bank of Thailand just last week decided to raise its policy interest rate, and is expected to enact another increase in the coming months. Local bank deposit rates here will be on the uptrend for the immediate future at least.

Edited August 27, 2011 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[newbepat]

Check the various Thai bank web sites, and often the promotional banners posted around branches and in the malls where banks have mini-branches...

Bangkok Bank, 11 month, time deposit, minimum 200,000 baht.... 3.75% per annum...

http://www.bangkokba...1%20months.aspx

And, a recap of Siam Commercial's recent fixed deposit rates for varying terms...

http://www.scb.co.th...nws-110708-rate

BTW, the Bank of Thailand just last week decided to raise its policy interest rate, and is expected to enact another increase in the coming months. Local bank deposit rates here will be on the uptrend for the immediate future at least.

Thank you TallGuyJohninBKK for the information,

Thats a very good rate for Thailand,

I am wonderning would fixed deposit accounts be ok for the 800,000 retirment visa

Sorry if I am off topic, and in the wrong forum

Pat :jap:

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Thank you TallGuyJohninBKK for the information,

Thats a very good rate for Thailand,

I am wonderning would fixed deposit accounts be ok for the 800,000 retirment visa

Sorry if I am off topic, and in the wrong forum

Pat :jap:

Nope, perfectly good question, and an often asked one...

The answer is... in general, fixed deposit accounts should be fine for retirement extension purposes.

However, there have been a few reports of some upcountry Immigration offices (not BKK) balking at accepting those.... So, really only if you're outside of BKK, it would be best to check with the particular Immigration office where you'd file for your retirement extension just to make sure, and avoid any unexpected surprise at extension time. But most likely, it would be fine.

Keep in mind, you need to be sure to maintain no less than the minimum 800,000 amount for the entire two month or three month period prior to your extension application. The account should be in your name only, so Immigration doesn't reduce the credit they allocate for it. And you want to be sure the account is held as cash... not bonds or any other kind of financial instrument.

Also be aware of what kind of tax implications that kind of account and balance might have for your home country. For example, having over $10,000 U.S. in any foreign accounts triggers a whole reporting requirement for U.S. citizens. And the Thai bank, for any retiree I believe, will deduct a mandatory 15% withholding tax on your interest earnings.

[henryalleman]

It all depends on how much you care to risk and how much you want secured. Different people different degrees in these matters.Also depends on your personal knowledge. For the average guy retiring here my feelings are, put 800,000 in the bank for visa. This 800,000 also is emergency fund if needed so no other cash need be brought over. Leave all your money and investments in your home country. Why anyone wants to play with their money in retirement is a mystery to me. If you are retired and have pensions and investments you will always have enough for Thailand if you maintain your bank balance of 800,000.

Since coming here to Thailand i have seen many guys come. The ones that seem to be the happiest or last any length of time are the ones who rent,donot invest and are single.

In answer to your first question

eggs have gone up 30%

pork up 30 baht a kilo.

housing has doubled in 5 years.

Rice has shot up but cannot remember numbers sorry.

Second question I donot wish to share my opinions of it.

You give the same advise as I would give.

Keep your hard earn cash back home.

I have to mention that my pension is inflation guaranteed and paid in Euro.

The political situation in Thailand is not stable enough to do otherwise, and there are no laws to protect an foreigner if something go's wrong.

[zzaa09]

anyone who worries about currency fluctuation and price rises if you want my advice dont come :jap:

Better yet, expand towards the simple ideals of a real existence less dependent on systems of establishment.

Independence and self-sufficiency might be your best friends.

[RubbaJohnny]

Thanks everyone

I have an unmortgaged house wifes name usufruct etc

I have the retirement cash at 3.6% net here

Get 4.5% in UK and will have pension soon in sterling on a WSB bond but theyve stopped linked visa card

Luckily I put 80k in OZ at over 6% (instant access via linked visa card with NAB)

it has appreciate 30+% over sterling so turned into about 100k with easier acces

Queensland Teachers credit Union was almost double figures at that time but trasfwers expensive

I have $income at present and will stick offshore eg Singapore or Switzerland I think or ING in hawaii for when Im n USA

I realise there is n perfect way

Thanks for intersting gamut of replies and the new Million Baht insurance cap.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Luckily I put 80k in OZ at over 6% (instant access via linked visa card with NAB)

it has appreciate 30+% over sterling so turned into about 100k with easier acces

Queensland Teachers credit Union was almost double figures at that time but trasfwers expensive

If's one's not an Aussie by citizenship, and not living/staying there, how does one go about opening an Aussie bank account?

And, what kind of deposit protection insurance would it carry?

[kerryk]

Luckily I put 80k in OZ at over 6% (instant access via linked visa card with NAB)

it has appreciate 30+% over sterling so turned into about 100k with easier acces

Queensland Teachers credit Union was almost double figures at that time but trasfwers expensive

If's one's not an Aussie by citizenship, and not living/staying there, how does one go about opening an Aussie bank account?

And, what kind of deposit protection insurance would it carry?

ANZ Singapore bank but I don't think they let Americans open accounts any more.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Thanks Kerry...

BTW, likely am planning just a regular tourist visit to NZ later this year. Would that change the situation any??? And yes, I am an American...

[kerryk]

Thanks Kerry...

BTW, likely am planning just a regular tourist visit to NZ later this year. Would that change the situation any??? And yes, I am an American...

Don't know. I opened and closed my account with them from Thailand.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

How odd.... What's up with this? Anyone know the explanation?

The U.S. hasn't invaded Australia lately, have we???

From the ANZ website:

Any brokerage and investment advisory services described herein are not intended for U.S. Persons. Furthermore, any solicitation on this web site of retail banking services (including accepting and/or soliciting deposits), insurance services, mortgage and/or consumer lending services or credit card services is not intended for U.S. Persons. "U.S. Persons" are generally defined as a natural person, residing in the United States or any entity organized or incorporated under the laws of the United States. U.S. Citizens living abroad may also be deemed "U.S. Persons" under certain rules.

http://www.anz.com/singapore/en/Auxiliary/important-information-us/

I wonder what the last sentence means for people living full-time in Thailand?

[kerryk]

How odd.... What's up with this? Anyone know the explanation?

The U.S. hasn't invaded Australia lately, have we???

From the ANZ website:

Any brokerage and investment advisory services described herein are not intended for U.S. Persons. Furthermore, any solicitation on this web site of retail banking services (including accepting and/or soliciting deposits), insurance services, mortgage and/or consumer lending services or credit card services is not intended for U.S. Persons. "U.S. Persons" are generally defined as a natural person, residing in the United States or any entity organized or incorporated under the laws of the United States. U.S. Citizens living abroad may also be deemed "U.S. Persons" under certain rules.

http://www.anz.com/singapore/en/Auxiliary/important-information-us/

I wonder what the last sentence means for people living full-time in Thailand?

They have been reading Thai Visa too much.

[KeyserSoze01]

How odd.... What's up with this? Anyone know the explanation?

The U.S. hasn't invaded Australia lately, have we???

From the ANZ website:

Any brokerage and investment advisory services described herein are not intended for U.S. Persons. Furthermore, any solicitation on this web site of retail banking services (including accepting and/or soliciting deposits), insurance services, mortgage and/or consumer lending services or credit card services is not intended for U.S. Persons. "U.S. Persons" are generally defined as a natural person, residing in the United States or any entity organized or incorporated under the laws of the United States. U.S. Citizens living abroad may also be deemed "U.S. Persons" under certain rules.

http://www.anz.com/s...information-us/

I wonder what the last sentence means for people living full-time in Thailand?

It means that regardless of your country of residence, you are still a US citizen and they do not want your business.

[StreetCowboy]

How odd.... What's up with this? Anyone know the explanation?

The U.S. hasn't invaded Australia lately, have we???

From the ANZ website:

Any brokerage and investment advisory services described herein are not intended for U.S. Persons. Furthermore, any solicitation on this web site of retail banking services (including accepting and/or soliciting deposits), insurance services, mortgage and/or consumer lending services or credit card services is not intended for U.S. Persons. "U.S. Persons" are generally defined as a natural person, residing in the United States or any entity organized or incorporated under the laws of the United States. U.S. Citizens living abroad may also be deemed "U.S. Persons" under certain rules.

http://www.anz.com/s...information-us/

I wonder what the last sentence means for people living full-time in Thailand?

It means that regardless of your country of residence, you are still a US citizen and they do not want your business.

It is probably more the case that they do not comply with regulations applied extra-territorially by the US, or do not wish to deal with people who may be entitled to sue in the US courts for mistakes that they make overseas. I believe that if they were able to deal with US persons on the same basis that other people can be treated, then they would have no objection, but unfortunately, the extra-territorial application of US legislation or law makes it too expensive or risky to do business with US persons.

SC