20-Year-Old Briton Electrocuted To Death On Bangla Road, Phuket

[oldsailor35]

Well, today I went to the ATM at the Family Mart in Nanai at the corner of Soi 2 to check my bank account. I did so many times before, but in nice weather conditions. Today my Flip-Flops were wet, and when touching the first key on the keyboard I had this "exiting nice feeling" of a ungrounded piece of metal connected to a hot lead. I just used my purse to push the cancel-button and left. The next time I won't touch any ATM in the rain.

Um, this sounds kinda weird, but I used to get the same feeling when I plugged my playstation into the tele. Then I realised that the grounding that is needed had been rigged up, but not connected. It looked like it had been done, but it too was a death trap waiting to happen.

So I had to get on the net and find out how it is done, then get an electrician, (Who turned up on his motorbike wearing a motorbike taxi uniform, and of course without any tools to his name. Maybe he was just after money and saw the risk of being electrocuted was worth the 500 we were gunna give him.) to follow instructions from me as to how I wanted it done. Problem was solved.

Incidentally ! just what training do Thai Electricians have, or do they learn, as i suspect, by just watching the boss ?

[oldsailor35]

I can't tell from the pictures exactly where the plug socket is located but it may be helpful for some posters to understand that the front of Ocean Plaza is covered by a rigid and permanent awning following renovation works last year. The awning is very large and provides cover for a number of businesses that operate in front of the plaza - it's also worth noting that the outdoor base is raised above street level. Therefore, it's not exactly as though someone decided to fit a power socket in the middle of an open or totally unprotected area, it's also not clear where the water that caused the flooding came from, rain water ingress or someone with a hosepipe/bucket.

Just wanted to add a little balance to the story since a number of people seem to be going off at the deep end on this one, not least of which is someone blaming the deceased for being up and awake at 06:00, quite amazing really.

I think that you have missed the point. That 0600hrs remark was just a "tongue in cheek" remark, referring to possible official Thai conclusions. We all know how stupid these can be.

Edited August 28, 2011 by oldsailor35

[oldsailor35]

I can't tell from the pictures exactly where the plug socket is located but it may be helpful for some posters to understand that the front of Ocean Plaza is covered by a rigid and permanent awning following renovation works last year. The awning is very large and provides cover for a number of businesses that operate in front of the plaza - it's also worth noting that the outdoor base is raised above street level. Therefore, it's not exactly as though someone decided to fit a power socket in the middle of an open or totally unprotected area, it's also not clear where the water that caused the flooding came from, rain water ingress or someone with a hosepipe/bucket.

Just wanted to add a little balance to the story since a number of people seem to be going off at the deep end on this one, not least of which is someone blaming the deceased for being up and awake at 06:00, quite amazing really.

I think that you have missed the point. That 0600hrs remark was just a "tongue in cheek" remark, referring to possible official Thai conclusions And we all know just how stupid they can be..

Edited August 28, 2011 by oldsailor35

[Trapper]

Poor bugger, my condolences to his family and friends, tragic waste of life!

[Chainsaw]

I don't get it. Reading here I only see criticisms of the Thai way. You don't seem to realize that things like this actually are what make Thailand what it is; the place we have chosen to live or visit on holiday. Here there aren't laws and regulations for everything; and the ones there are aren't enforced very strictly. This gives you the wonderful freedom to use your head and be responsible for yourself instead of having others packing you into cotton balls and deciding what's best for you.

I surely feel sorry for the young man's family and friends because of this tragic accident. However Thailand is what it is and accident like this occur here. Before going here on holiday, or to live here, you should be aware of that, and make up your mind whether you are willing to run the risks that goes with it or not. People ought to be responsible for themselves instead of always just blaming things on others.

I have worked and lived most of my life in 3^rdworld countries, been in the midst of civil wars, terrorist attacks, mob rule, and similar stuff. Yet I'm still alive, have never been hurt, badly cheated, or otherwise burned my fingers severely. I surely had my share of bad experiences, but when that happened I only blamed myself for my lack of forethought, not the place or the people I had chosen to be amongst. Once I had a close friend killed by a dentist in Bangladesh. Who's really to blame? The poorly educated dentist who gave my friend an overdose of anaesthesia or my highly educated friend who was stupid enough to go to a dentist in Bangladesh? If you are a smoker and catch lungcancer can you then blame the tobacco industry?

If you want babysitter mentality with laws and regulations for everything try out a place like Denmark or Singapore instead of Thailand. I'm sure you're going to love it .

Newbie or not that was an outstanding post, agreed totally.

Me too!

[LivinginKata]

Inflammatory post removed.

[chiang mai]

I can't tell from the pictures exactly where the plug socket is located but it may be helpful for some posters to understand that the front of Ocean Plaza is covered by a rigid and permanent awning following renovation works last year. The awning is very large and provides cover for a number of businesses that operate in front of the plaza - it's also worth noting that the outdoor base is raised above street level. Therefore, it's not exactly as though someone decided to fit a power socket in the middle of an open or totally unprotected area, it's also not clear where the water that caused the flooding came from, rain water ingress or someone with a hosepipe/bucket.

Just wanted to add a little balance to the story since a number of people seem to be going off at the deep end on this one, not least of which is someone blaming the deceased for being up and awake at 06:00, quite amazing really.

I think that you have missed the point. That 0600hrs remark was just a "tongue in cheek" remark, referring to possible official Thai conclusions And we all know just how stupid they can be..

Apologies if I miss interpreted your post, actually quite reassuring if I did.

[Rafale]

I don't get it. Reading here I only see criticisms of the Thai way. You don't seem to realize that things like this actually are what make Thailand what it is; the place we have chosen to live or visit on holiday. Here there aren't laws and regulations for everything; and the ones there are aren't enforced very strictly. This gives you the wonderful freedom to use your head and be responsible for yourself instead of having others packing you into cotton balls and deciding what's best for you.

I surely feel sorry for the young man's family and friends because of this tragic accident. However Thailand is what it is and accident like this occur here. Before going here on holiday, or to live here, you should be aware of that, and make up your mind whether you are willing to run the risks that goes with it or not. People ought to be responsible for themselves instead of always just blaming things on others.

I have worked and lived most of my life in 3^rdworld countries, been in the midst of civil wars, terrorist attacks, mob rule, and similar stuff. Yet I'm still alive, have never been hurt, badly cheated, or otherwise burned my fingers severely. I surely had my share of bad experiences, but when that happened I only blamed myself for my lack of forethought, not the place or the people I had chosen to be amongst. Once I had a close friend killed by a dentist in Bangladesh. Who's really to blame? The poorly educated dentist who gave my friend an overdose of anaesthesia or my highly educated friend who was stupid enough to go to a dentist in Bangladesh? If you are a smoker and catch lungcancer can you then blame the tobacco industry?

If you want babysitter mentality with laws and regulations for everything try out a place like Denmark or Singapore instead of Thailand. I'm sure you're going to love it .

Newbie or not that was an outstanding post, agreed totally.

Me too!

Outstanding post indeed! Yet I hope the family is going to sue the dept. store to the max Thai laws allows.

It won't bring the poor kid back but it might save some lives in the future.

[moe666]

It is already a miracle that nobody who tried to help the poor Briton was not killed also from electrocution.

I learned already in primary school that before helping a person, victim of electrocution, one must cut off the power first or use insulated equipment

I agree Rule N# 1 never touch a victim of electricution before the area has been isolated. It appears everyone is taught that from day one except Thai's . You hear so many stories of farangs being electicuted in Thailand (swimming pools, hotwater heaters and just walking around) how many thais are dying daily from eletricution? Electricity and Thai's are a bad combination, just walk along any street anywhere in Thailand and look at the disasters just waiting to happen. Every footpath cafe' and eatery you will see wires laying on the ground with plug after plug piggybacking each other on the ground, rain pouring down. 1/2 the time they don't even use plugs just 2 bare wires stuck into the points. The concept of earthing hasn't even been considered in Thailand as yet. Do they actually have local government safety inspectors who monitor all these roadside establishments and enforce strict safety standards. Thier public liability insurance must be through the roof if they could even get it.

Condolences to family and friends of this latest victim. To the Thai's that tried to help, a little foolish but at least you tried to do something.

"Everyone is taught from day One!" Who says?

In the UK we were taught first aid to save lives and not to leave them to die. We are taught to immediately pull the person who is attached to the live conductor away using a dry insulating material such as a scarf, rope, belt, shirt. I used to joint live underground 415V power cables in the UK, it is not dangerous if you insulate yourself from earth.

Saved a few people this way when working in power plants.

Must agree on the safety issue, I put my own earth spike in my house and ELCB. The problem with Thailand is that they adopted the British Voltage of 240V whilst using the Japanese/American plugs and sockets which are designed for 110V centered tapped to earth at the Local Electricity Boards transformer which means that the maximum voltage to earth in Japan and America is only 55V, which is much much safer. The heart can suffer ventricular fibrillation at any voltage above 40V which is the minimum voltage that will give rise to sufficient milliamps to cause a heart siezure. Persons with dry thick skin with high resistance do not get a high enough passage of current to cause a problem. I used to work with a Polish Electrical Foreman who used to touch the cable with his finger to check if the conductors were live or not.

Have to correct you on the outlets in the states are nothing like the ones in Thailand. The only thing in the states that comes close would be a 220v 20 amp outlet. The 110v 20a outlet uses a larger prong for the neutral and a smaller prong for the voltage or hot side. If you take a meter and measure across hot and ground you will read 110 volts also across neutral you will read 110 volts. As it is the amps that kill you and not the volts we may need to rethink your 55 volt statement.

Also a couple of other statements another post , no you cannot let go of 110 volt alternating current it will cause the muscles to contract and you will not be able to let go. I was taught if you suspect something being hot use the back of your hand to check. If you do get a shock the contraction of the hand will be away from the hot source allowing you to pull away. Hot used in this context is for something being charged with voltage.

Edited August 28, 2011 by moe666

[electau]

Any voltage over 50VAC is recognised as a hazardous voltage under normal circumstances. (IEC).

In the case of cardiac arrest, CPR must be commenced immediately. The survival rate for just CPR is about 1%. With a defibulator it is about 15%.

Cardiac arrest can be caused by electric shock, poisoning or drowning.

With electric shock, the victim must be removed from the source of electric shock with out causing harm to the rescuer. The person commencing CPR can call on any member of the public for assistance. An ambulance must also be called.

Unfortunately, in Thailand very few persons understand CPR and basic life support.

Due to the circumstances it is very unlikely that the victims life could have been saved.

Responsibilty for the accident lies with the building owner in the first instance. A formal investigation by the PEA would need to be carried out first.

[electau]

It is impossible to prevent an electric shock, one can only minimise the risk and the effects of electric shock. An electrical installation shall be free of electrical risk as far as is practicable.

A voltage of less than 50VAC can be sustained indefinitely under normal circumstances, 25VAC or less in damp conditions, (IEC61200-413)

[maidu]

Well, if he would not have been there at 6 am the accident would have never happened = it is his own fault. Welcome to the biggest congregations of clowns; I keep proclaiming = too many clowns, not enough circuses. Do you seriously thing, assume, hope or expect anything to change in this country? Try to imagine what would happen, if a Thai would get electrocuted in London. Good luck this is hypothetical as it will never happen and hence Thais are never at fault!

a Thai young lady got electrocuted to death by lightning in Hyde Park, London, a few years ago. She was wearing a bra with support wires in it.

Well, today I went to the ATM at the Family Mart in Nanai at the corner of Soi 2 to check my bank account. I did so many times before, but in nice weather conditions. Today my Flip-Flops were wet, and when touching the first key on the keyboard I had this "exiting nice feeling" of a ungrounded piece of metal connected to a hot lead. I just used my purse to push the cancel-button and left. The next time I won't touch any ATM in the rain.

You should have told the management immediately - though it might not have been dealt with.

[stephanienyc]

Have to correct you on the outlets in the states are nothing like the ones in Thailand. The only thing in the states that comes close would be a 220v 20 amp outlet.

The size of the internal components of our USA 15 and 20 amp 110 and 220 volt sockets are all the same. The limiting factors involve the shape and pattern of the slots molded into the outlet's front cover. If you were to put a 15-amp/125 volt socket next to a 20-amp/125V, 15A/250V and 20A/250V sockets and crack the front covers off, you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between them just by looking at the internals.

The 20-amp/240V socket you're thinking of doesn't have one pin larger than the other. It has one pin set at a 90 degree angle.

Ditto the plugs. The pins are just arranged differently in the housing. Parallel, tandem or two different configurations of 90 degree offsets. Look at a NEMA configuration chart one of these days.

Where you start seeing significant differences is in receptacles and plugs for 30 amps and above. The pins and the housings they're set into are definitely thicker.

On our 15-amp/125V outlets, one pin is SOMETIMES (not always) made a little wider to enforce polarization of some appliances. The wider pin goes to the neutral conductor. The standard-sized one goes to the live.

Most replacement plugs found in USA shops don't have this feature, however.

So sometimes you're stuck with replacing a polarized factory-moulded plug with a non-polarized standard device. For a double-insulated device like a portable radio or a fan, you really don't need the polarizing feature.

The USA-type 125V/15A two parallel-pin socket that you see all over the place in Thailand can obviously handle 220 volts at 15 amps with no problem. In fact, the same outlets are used at the same current levels in China, Peru, Bolivia and many other countries with no problem.

It's not the socket/plug system that's the problem. It's people's cavalier attitudes towards electrical safety that are. A chunky BS-1363 plug and socket by itself would not have prevented this man's death.

[boracic]

Some fancy Wiring..IEE Regs ?

[LivinLOS]

I don't get it. Reading here I only see criticisms of the Thai way. You don't seem to realize that things like this actually are what make Thailand what it is; the place we have chosen to live or visit on holiday. Here there aren't laws and regulations for everything; and the ones there are aren't enforced very strictly. This gives you the wonderful freedom to use your head and be responsible for yourself instead of having others packing you into cotton balls and deciding what's best for you.

I surely feel sorry for the young man's family and friends because of this tragic accident. However Thailand is what it is and accident like this occur here. Before going here on holiday, or to live here, you should be aware of that, and make up your mind whether you are willing to run the risks that goes with it or not. People ought to be responsible for themselves instead of always just blaming things on others.

I have worked and lived most of my life in 3^rdworld countries, been in the midst of civil wars, terrorist attacks, mob rule, and similar stuff. Yet I'm still alive, have never been hurt, badly cheated, or otherwise burned my fingers severely. I surely had my share of bad experiences, but when that happened I only blamed myself for my lack of forethought, not the place or the people I had chosen to be amongst. Once I had a close friend killed by a dentist in Bangladesh. Who's really to blame? The poorly educated dentist who gave my friend an overdose of anaesthesia or my highly educated friend who was stupid enough to go to a dentist in Bangladesh? If you are a smoker and catch lungcancer can you then blame the tobacco industry?

If you want babysitter mentality with laws and regulations for everything try out a place like Denmark or Singapore instead of Thailand. I'm sure you're going to love it .

Newbie or not that was an outstanding post, agreed totally.

Me too!

Theres a big difference between being culturally tolerant and accepting, and being apathetic about life threatening shortcuts and bad choices..

Should we just say discos shouldnt have fire escapes because thats how its done ?? Or passenger ferries may as well skip the life jackets because.. well.. lifes cheap ?? Lets forget seat belts or crash helmets.

Someone choose to put that there.. That choice cost a young man his life. Unless poor judgement like that gets punished theres no reason for the next person not to also use poor judgement, and also cost lives. Thai or farang, people deserve better. To argue otherwise is to say we may as well remain cavemen, because 'thats how it was'.. Suggesting that people should expect the ground to not kill them is not the first leak in the dyke of some Orwellian big brother nanny state, its not the mark of some superior social freedom.

[Chainsaw]

Theres a big difference between being culturally tolerant and accepting, and being apathetic about life threatening shortcuts and bad choices..

Should we just say discos shouldnt have fire escapes because thats how its done ?? Or passenger ferries may as well skip the life jackets because.. well.. lifes cheap ?? Lets forget seat belts or crash helmets.

Someone choose to put that there.. That choice cost a young man his life. Unless poor judgement like that gets punished theres no reason for the next person not to also use poor judgement, and also cost lives. Thai or farang, people deserve better. To argue otherwise is to say we may as well remain cavemen, because 'thats how it was'.. Suggesting that people should expect the ground to not kill them is not the first leak in the dyke of some Orwellian big brother nanny state, its not the mark of some superior social freedom.

So where's your suggestions on how to 'punish' the poor judgement LivingLos? How can this problem be solved and what are you doing about it? Ranting on about the way things should be is just a useless exercise.

Unless you have the solution you're just blowing hot air.

How does the saying go?

"give me the strength to change the things I can change,

the serenity to accept the things I can't change

and the wisdom to know the difference"

(or something like that)

If you can't change it you have to accept it. I think that's the point AjarnJan was making.

[LivinLOS]

Theres a big difference between being culturally tolerant and accepting, and being apathetic about life threatening shortcuts and bad choices..

Should we just say discos shouldnt have fire escapes because thats how its done ?? Or passenger ferries may as well skip the life jackets because.. well.. lifes cheap ?? Lets forget seat belts or crash helmets.

Someone choose to put that there.. That choice cost a young man his life. Unless poor judgement like that gets punished theres no reason for the next person not to also use poor judgement, and also cost lives. Thai or farang, people deserve better. To argue otherwise is to say we may as well remain cavemen, because 'thats how it was'.. Suggesting that people should expect the ground to not kill them is not the first leak in the dyke of some Orwellian big brother nanny state, its not the mark of some superior social freedom.

So where's your suggestions on how to 'punish' the poor judgement LivingLos? How can this problem be solved and what are you doing about it? Ranting on about the way things should be is just a useless exercise.

Unless you have the solution you're just blowing hot air.

How does the saying go?

"give me the strength to change the things I can change,

the serenity to accept the things I can't change

and the wisdom to know the difference"

(or something like that)

If you can't change it you have to accept it. I think that's the point AjarnJan was making.

If the building codes were not applied then.. The owner of the building..

If the building codes were applied and it was approved planning the planning officer..

Hardly rocket science ??

'I' cannot change it.. But Thais should demand some accountability and responsibility in their own society.

However the main point of my post was as a counter to the presented idea that theres some charm in squalor, that it is some form of big brother nanny state to expect to not have people randomly be killed because someone wanted to take a building short cut. No its just good sense.

It could easily be a Thai child that was killed than a western youth. Dont Thai kids deserve a safe environment ?? Or is it westerners desire of a bit of rough around the edges, slumming it 3rd world playground (which they can get on a plane and leave for first world medical care) more important. Hey we wouldnt want them to develop too much, imagine what beer and birds might cost then hey !!

Thailands developing, modernizing, changing.. Its earning more, its closing the income disparity with the west. But one of the big hurdles thats slowing them down is the mai pen rai, lack of culpability or enforced responsibility, if they want the modernity, which they sure seem to, then I guess they will also have to hold people accountable to their actions.

[Sittisan911]

As a Thai citizen I can certainly understand the concerns foreigners may have regarding safety and the public service nightmares that can cause tragic events like this.

I think, and it's only my personal opinion, that many things need to be improved here drastically to make Thailand reach the same level of sophistication you foreigners expect from living in paradise. I know there are lots to be done and honestly, a lot has improved from before. 20 years ago and 10 years ago, things are worse. Things are being continuously improved but at a snail slow pace and it bothers Thais living here too. However, throwing nasty comments in here will not make things improve. All it shows is how much you actually hate it here. How much more superior it is to live elsewhere and "Thai people" are merely a bunch of stupid idiots who has no intention of improving the ways we welcome you foreigners here. It's perfectly ok to not like living here and it's perfectly ok to wish the conditions here are better. I've been reading so many threads here that shows borderline hostility to this country, it's way of life, as well as the mentality of the people here. It shouldn't be stereotyped as the typical Thai attitude because it certainly does not reflect the honest truth. I have known through my years abroad and here that every country, every city, has problems of their own. This ranges from simple crimes to full scale riots, not all of these are always handled expertly and without any glitches. It never made me hate a place and ridicule its people as if I am superior than they are. That's a form of prejudice in my view.

[chiang mai]

As a Thai citizen I can certainly understand the concerns foreigners may have regarding safety and the public service nightmares that can cause tragic events like this.

I think, and it's only my personal opinion, that many things need to be improved here drastically to make Thailand reach the same level of sophistication you foreigners expect from living in paradise. I know there are lots to be done and honestly, a lot has improved from before. 20 years ago and 10 years ago, things are worse. Things are being continuously improved but at a snail slow pace and it bothers Thais living here too. However, throwing nasty comments in here will not make things improve. All it shows is how much you actually hate it here. How much more superior it is to live elsewhere and "Thai people" are merely a bunch of stupid idiots who has no intention of improving the ways we welcome you foreigners here. It's perfectly ok to not like living here and it's perfectly ok to wish the conditions here are better. I've been reading so many threads here that shows borderline hostility to this country, it's way of life, as well as the mentality of the people here. It shouldn't be stereotyped as the typical Thai attitude because it certainly does not reflect the honest truth. I have known through my years abroad and here that every country, every city, has problems of their own. This ranges from simple crimes to full scale riots, not all of these are always handled expertly and without any glitches. It never made me hate a place and ridicule its people as if I am superior than they are. That's a form of prejudice in my view.

A second really good post in this thread: unfortunately, many people who post in this forum haven't been here long enough to see the progress that is being made and can only see things the way they are currently, their only reference point, sadly, is the way that things are back "home". If I were you I wouldn't be too deeply offended but instead put the comments down to ignorance rather than much else.

[LivinLOS]

Agreed, great post and I hope the poster keeps posting..

[electau]

One should realise that electricity will kill. Your nationality, race, religion, political views, country, breeding or social status will not protect you.

One can only minimise the risk. This is done by enforcing electrical standards, training and consumer awareness. It starts with the government and electricity authorities and regulatory agencies and one must also have the understanding of responsibilities and duty of care. Also a country requires a

a effective legal system to enforce laws and regulations without fear or favour.

Thailand is ,like many countries, not a "western" one. One travels to Thailand at his/her own risk.

Remember, life is dear, death is cheap.

Edited August 30, 2011 by electau

[Sittisan911]

One should realise that electricity will kill. Your nationality, race, religion, political views, country, breeding or social status will not protect you.

One can only minimise the risk. This is done by enforcing electrical standards, training and consumer awareness. It starts with the government and electricity authorities and regulatory agencies and one must also have the understanding of responsibilities and duty of care. Also a country requires a

a effective legal system to enforce laws and regulations without fear or favour.

Thailand is ,like many countries, not a "western" one. One travels to Thailand at his/her own risk.

Remember, life is dear, death is cheap.

You're absolutely correct. I think most people, no matter what race they are, will know the danger of electricity. I also agree that enforcing electrical standards and consumer awareness is necessary. The only thing I can do as a Thai national is try to alert the proper authorities on what needs to be done. If you read Thai papers, watch Thai TV, listen to Thai radio, you'll realize there are quite a lot of Thai people with the same concerns and we love ourselves, our friends and family no less than you foreigners love yours. Not enough has been done obviously, but progress is being made. In Bangkok, with it's obvious traffic problems, there's a 24 hour traffic radio that not only alert drivers of scenes of accidents, but also call for proper authority to get there as quickly as possible. There are networks of people looking out to offer help and there are quick response crews working around the clock to try to maintain stability in this crowded city. They're not always the best educated, neither are they the experts with the problem solving know-how, but it is still comforting to know someone will try to help. By classifying all of us here as a bunch of stupid people without an education is unfair. I'm sure they all wish to meet your country's standards but like any venue of education, these things take time and money. Something not as readily available to them the way it may have been for foreigners. I read in an earlier thread that most Thais have no idea how to perform CPR. Why is that so surprising? Most Americans and Brits I know don't know how either. It's not rocket science, but it isn't something everyday people think of, no matter where they are. Sub standard buildings also exist in the western world, not just here. There are building codes here too and the enforcement agencies are the ones that should be responsible, not the people in the area. I have had my US residence leak and had electrical problems. I enjoyed my time there anyway. I didn't have to blame Americans for my mishaps. Not even after I've been mugged at gunpoint. It's about how you handle yourself more than how much Thailand can make a perfect world for you. I believe that an accident waiting to happen can occur anywhere and not just here. To travel here at his/her own risk can be said about any country. If there are certain things I detest or not wanting to be near, I usually just stay away from it. I know a lot of parts of Thailand that are full of helpful, friendly people in a very secure and safe environment, very close to some of the world's best medicare. It's not as backwards as many people think, and honestly, I feel a lot safer taking the Bangkok Skytrains and Subways than I do in many other cities. Please try to have a more open mind when looking at Thailand and try to enjoy yourself while you're here. Or you can try coming back a decade later and hope to find some improvements. Send information regarding your concerns to the proper channels instead of bitching about it here if you really, truly want to help.

[stephanienyc]

Sittisan, thank you for your educated and reasoned post. I wish more people weren't so quick to blast their adopted country.

[FOODLOVER]

Theres a big difference between being culturally tolerant and accepting, and being apathetic about life threatening shortcuts and bad choices..

Should we just say discos shouldnt have fire escapes because thats how its done ?? Or passenger ferries may as well skip the life jackets because.. well.. lifes cheap ?? Lets forget seat belts or crash helmets.

Someone choose to put that there.. That choice cost a young man his life. Unless poor judgement like that gets punished theres no reason for the next person not to also use poor judgement, and also cost lives. Thai or farang, people deserve better. To argue otherwise is to say we may as well remain cavemen, because 'thats how it was'.. Suggesting that people should expect the ground to not kill them is not the first leak in the dyke of some Orwellian big brother nanny state, its not the mark of some superior social freedom.

Exactly right!

[transam]

Sorry haven't read all the posts but a warning to all who come here that that electrical stuff is NOT as safe as your homeland. My wife's mum will NOT shower in our house cos of fear of death, though l have set up a safe system. That's the way it is here.

[witsawakorn]

As a Thai citizen I can certainly understand the concerns foreigners may have regarding safety and the public service nightmares that can cause tragic events like this.

I think, and it's only my personal opinion, that many things need to be improved here drastically to make Thailand reach the same level of sophistication you foreigners expect from living in paradise. I know there are lots to be done and honestly, a lot has improved from before. 20 years ago and 10 years ago, things are worse. Things are being continuously improved but at a snail slow pace and it bothers Thais living here too. However, throwing nasty comments in here will not make things improve. All it shows is how much you actually hate it here. How much more superior it is to live elsewhere and "Thai people" are merely a bunch of stupid idiots who has no intention of improving the ways we welcome you foreigners here. It's perfectly ok to not like living here and it's perfectly ok to wish the conditions here are better. I've been reading so many threads here that shows borderline hostility to this country, it's way of life, as well as the mentality of the people here. It shouldn't be stereotyped as the typical Thai attitude because it certainly does not reflect the honest truth. I have known through my years abroad and here that every country, every city, has problems of their own. This ranges from simple crimes to full scale riots, not all of these are always handled expertly and without any glitches. It never made me hate a place and ridicule its people as if I am superior than they are. That's a form of prejudice in my view.

A second really good post in this thread: unfortunately, many people who post in this forum haven't been here long enough to see the progress that is being made and can only see things the way they are currently, their only reference point, sadly, is the way that things are back "home". If I were you I wouldn't be too deeply offended but instead put the comments down to ignorance rather than much else.

And a third good post! I would add that a lot of posters forget or are not aware h0w long it took their country of origin to establish and enforce high levels of electrical safety in homes or businesses and at what cost in lives and money. In the 16 or so years that I've lived and worked here there has been huge improvements in safety standards here. As you mentioned. people who haven't seen the changes will see things differentlly. Posters who make statements like "they can't ........... or ""the Thais are incapabable of.............." or similar appear in most cases to be made by people who are uninformed and in most cases unqualified to make any comment on the subject in question. Don't worry Sittisan 911 these people may seem nasty and hostile but they probably are so miserable that they won't stay here too long

[plumeria]

Well I guess we all agree that we would all be better off with better electrical standards and better electrical systems.

Most of the electrical systems I've seen in low-cost housing in Thailand were sensible enough although I always missed the lack of electrical grounding.

And we can start the ball rolling by implementing good practices on our own -- "The Man in the Mirror".

When we did our place we put all electrical and other cables and wiring underground, put a ground on every outlet, sank some hefty grounding rods, and installed a 3-phase system. All done by Thais.

And we use 12-volt DC current on our halogen swimming pool lights so never worry about our kids getting zapped.

Good practices make sense and people will adopt them when the advantages become clear. Thailand has improved a lot in the last half century although some things they ought to change stubbornly persist.

[cheshiremusicman]

Also that doesnt sound like AC current? Its usually high vold DC current that makes you drop or cant release something when shocked it contracts the muscles. AC was introduced because it makes you jump i you get a shock, jump away and release the wire/plug etc

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/770179-overview#a0104

High-voltage DC often causes a large single muscle contraction that throws the victim away from the source; thus, usually only brief duration of contact occurs with the source flow. In contrast, AC of the same voltage is considered to be approximately 3 times more dangerous than DC, because the cyclic flow of electrons causes muscle tetany that tends to prolong victims' exposure to the source. Muscle tetany occurs when fibers are stimulated at 40-110 Hz; thus, the standard 60 Hz of household current is within that range. If the source contact point is the hand, when tetanic muscle contraction occurs the extremity flexors contract, causing the victim to grasp the current and bring it closer to the body causing prolonged contact with the source.

Table 1. Physiologic Effects of Different Electrical Currents (Open Table in a new window)

EffectCurrent (milliamps)Tingling sensation/perception1-4Let-go current – Children3-4Let-go current - Women6-8Let-go current – Men7-9Skeletal muscle tetany16-20Respiratory muscle paralysis20-50Ventricular fibrillation50-120

Direct current (DC) injury: These injuries typically cause a single muscle contraction that throws the victim away from the source. They are rarely associated with loss of consciousness unless there is severe head trauma, and victims can often provide their own history.

http://emedicine.med...770179-clinical

I know that this AC versus DC is still a point of contention as to which one will 'throw you off and which one will not', but I still have to agree with you. I have had some large DC 'belts' in my life; due in part to my own stupidity I have to say, but they have always resulted in my body reacting by throwing me away from the source.

I have quite moist skin and thus a low resistance and even low voltages like the old 'AC bridge' device used measure inductance and capacitance would be sufficient to give me a severe tingling sensation. I have looked at your reference 'source' and it seems quite adamant as to which one is the worst of the two.

I have not seen anybody come back with any comment re my question as to why AC supplies are 'referenced to earth?'

Any takers please.

My condolences to the family of the young man who was killed; a tragic accident that should not have happened.