Revised Fast-Train Plan Shakes Thailand's Transport Ministry

[webfact]

TRAINS

Revised fast-train plan shakes Transport Ministry

By Ministry Watcharapong Thongrung

The Nation

Transport Ministry officials have been thrown off track by the new government's sweeping changes to the high-speed-rail development plan.

Supodh Saplom, permanent secretary, said yesterday that he would soon ask for the new minister's confirmation of the revised plan.

The major changes involve distances and investment approaches.

The previous government envisaged linking Bangkok with Padang Besar in Malaysia and Nong Khai in the Northeast by high-speed trains with the technical and financial assistance of the Chinese government. The joint-venture proposal is being studied by China, but this government apparently does not acknowledge it.

The new government has also shortened the planned routes and apparently switched to the public-private partnership model as the investment structure.

The Bangkok-Nong Khai route has been chopped to end in Nakhon Ratchasima.

Bangkok-Rayong - an extension of the Airport Rail Link - would stop at Map Ta Phut.

And Bangkok to the far South would terminate at Hua Hin.

The government also intends to invest first in the Bangkok-Chiang Mai route.

These amendments will require a review of the cost estimates, Supodh said.

"With the changes, our train network won't be connected with our neighbours," he said.

To link with Laos, the northeastern route would have to be extended to Nong Khai.

Democrat MP Chuan Leekpai urged the government to clarify the scheme to avoid confusion, as the new high-speed-rail policy is concentrated in the North and Northeast.

-- The Nation 2011-08-26

[edwinchester]

Why on earth would they not want to connect to neighbouring countries networks?

[TheWalkingMan]

I figured they would blow it somehow, either by cost overruns, delays etc, but to truncate the lines like this surprised me.

I still think they should have gone with a Japanese model rather than the Chinese one. Plenty of safety with the boys from Japan.

TheWalkingMan

[siampolee]

With the changes, our train network won't be connected with our neighbours," he said.

Thus we move back to the 18th century, stifle our international cross border trade with our immediate neighbours. Indeed an inward looking malfunctioning administration.

Note that the South as usual again neglected, the industrial area of Rayong neglected.

Chang Mai, full steam ahead, one is led to speculate as to why Chang Mai which is hardly the centre of Thai industrial enterprises is the be all and end all for this scheme?

Not a private family rail connection in the offing surely ?

These proposals indeed make the Luddites seem positively radical

Neo-Luddism conjures pre-technological life as the best post-technological prospect (see also primitivism), or as Robin and Webster put it, "a return to nature and what are imagined as more natural communities".^[3] Industrial Society and Its Future (1995) is a recent expression of Neo-Luddism by Theodore Kaczynski, also known as the Unabomber.

Edited August 26, 2011 by siampolee

[whybother]

What? Backtracking on another election promise?

Who'd have thought .........

[CosmicSurfer]

as the new high-speed-rail policy is concentrated in the North and Northeast.

DUhhhhh!!!!

CS

[Phuket Stan]

The government has to look after ALL the people....the poor trucking companies..the poor bus companies....the poor roading contractors companies...the list is endless on who they have to take care of...never mind letting common sense prevail for the good of the whole country

[Thai at Heart]

The government has to look after ALL the people....the poor trucking companies..the poor bus companies....the poor roading contractors companies...the list is endless on who they have to take care of...never mind letting common sense prevail for the good of the whole country

Indeed, once again the trucking lobby wins the day.

[ginjag]

The government has to look after ALL the people....the poor trucking companies..the poor bus companies....the poor roading contractors companies...the list is endless on who they have to take care of...never mind letting common sense prevail for the good of the whole country

Indeed, once again the trucking lobby wins the day.

Amazing again, Apart from the rail link already from Nong Khai to Laos, about the busiest highway runs from there to UDON-KHON KHEN-KHORAT and on to BKK.

This route Takes in 4 of the biggest cities in the country, and will end in Khorat, JOKE

The other route ( what a surprise Chiang Mai) on its own the other large city. with no on going line to Chiang Rai and Burma. this is proof why the C M route is a go go ==FAMILY. ????in charge

[Ricardo]

Perhaps it might make more sense to build the first high-speed line to Lampang, with its existing single-track spur off to Chiang Mai, and to continue direct to Phayao/Chiang-Rai/Chiang-Saen where it might link-up with something running north to China along the Mekong ?

But is this the 'Thai-plan' for high-speed links, or the Chinese high-speed freight-line, which is being curtailed ?

If the latter, then one would expect heavy political-pressure to be applied shortly. Perhaps there is some external trade-envoy who might seize the opportunity, for suitable remuneration naturally, to renegotiate the deal to give the influential northern-neighbour what it wants ?

[zakk9]

Clear message to to voters in Isaan: thank you for the votes, but we don't give a sh1t

[Ijustwannateach]

Quite shortsighted, though very much in the way of pork-barrel politics, and one wonders if China will remain on board if it does not suit their probable goals of having more convenient regional travel.

[otherstuff1957]

The Chinese goal was to have a high-speed rail link that would go all the way to Singapore. I don't think that they will be very interested in an internal Thai system.

If this goes ahead, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Chinese look into a rail link to the south of Vietnam & a high-speed ferry to Malaysia!

[scorecard]

Just wondering why most of these line stop short of the ultimate obvious end of the line.

e.g. the line stops at MAp TA Phut, rather than continue to Rayong which would be the logical 'end of the line'.

Just wondering whether this is to ensure that later there is another major budget for sticky fingers to get into.

[nong38]

Either you want a high speed (whatever that means) rail network or you dont, if you do then do it right dont cut off the arms and legs! Of course you should connect to Laos, Malaysia and make the connection to Chaing Rai and on to Burma, are not two of these lines going directly through the heartland of the current government.s suporters?I would have thought this would have proved the electorate that we something was being done for them rather than Bangkok. The line to Rayong is important it goes all the way because of the deep water ports and the manufacturing plants on that route, the other transport interests should see this an opportunity to increase trade if they looked forward a bit more. I would be worried now if the Chinese were involved unless they can demonstrate they have learnt some basic safety lessons, they obviously did not copy the right parts of the technology they have been adapting. Anyone up for on train signalling that brakes the train automatically. Seems to work well in other countries.

Edited August 26, 2011 by nong38

[newermonkey]

In addition to cutting the track runs short they will use the existing tracks and the new trains will require state railway officials to walk in front of the trains with red flags for safety reasons oh' and a speed limit of 10 KPH will be made into law.

[Thai at Heart]

Just wondering why most of these line stop short of the ultimate obvious end of the line.

e.g. the line stops at MAp TA Phut, rather than continue to Rayong which would be the logical 'end of the line'.

Just wondering whether this is to ensure that later there is another major budget for sticky fingers to get into.

I can only think that the only reason to stop at Mapthaput and not push the line into Rayong, which is only about 10km, is that there may be virtually no way to get the line through Mapthaput without buying up some extremely expensive land that has been purchased by industry. Unless the line will go North of the main highway, how to get the line through the industrial areas?

That all said, the idea of stopping in Korat is nonsense, but then TIT. I can believe the trucking and bus companies have been crying to someone about this.

[thaiedward]

The Chinese goal was to have a high-speed rail link that would go all the way to Singapore. I don't think that they will be very interested in an internal Thai system.

If this goes ahead, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Chinese look into a rail link to the south of Vietnam & a high-speed ferry to Malaysia!

Insightful post.

Given China's thirst for water (what with its desertification encroaching from the north) and its growing needs for arable turf, is Siam waxing coy?

One thing's for certain: the rail-link between BKK and Chiang Mai is deplorably poor (with food that's even poorer)...arrogant staffers and broken toilets. Sad stuff based in selfishness and greed?

Regards.

[scotbeve]

I figured they would blow it somehow, either by cost overruns, delays etc, but to truncate the lines like this surprised me.

I still think they should have gone with a Japanese model rather than the Chinese one. Plenty of safety with the boys from Japan.

TheWalkingMan

Agreed Walkingman... Chinese products are not the safest going..... Imagine.... it took how many years JUST TO OPEN the extended link after On Nut BTS station??? Now THAT was sad!!!!

[wpcoe]

That was my first thought, as well: Why would the Chinese be interested at all in the plan as proposed now?

I thought the only hope a high-speed train would have a snowball's chance in hell of materializing in Thailand would be with the oversight/input/construction by China. Now?

[OzMick]

Hua Hin ? that's it for the southern line? why bloody bother?

[Dag]

I bags not to be in the first 6 months onboard.

[LanxangBillybob]

Thailand's backtracking after seeing how bad the China-Laos link has gone. Smart move.

[whybother]

Thailand's backtracking after seeing how bad the China-Laos link has gone. Smart move.

How bad HAS the China-Laos link gone? Have they started it?

[rubl]

I figured they would blow it somehow, either by cost overruns, delays etc, but to truncate the lines like this surprised me.

I still think they should have gone with a Japanese model rather than the Chinese one. Plenty of safety with the boys from Japan.

TheWalkingMan

Agreed Walkingman... Chinese products are not the safest going..... Imagine.... it took how many years JUST TO OPEN the extended link after On Nut BTS station??? Now THAT was sad!!!!

The BTS Sukhumvit line till OnNut was opened in 1999. So the strict answer to your question is '12 years'. The question is not really fair as the work on the extension started only around 2007 (?) and had a delay of about a year (?). The question marks indicate I'm not sure of the precise dates. The sad thing is that BTS extensions had been thwarted by the Thaksin government which didn't want a 'Democrat governor'-led BKK to succeed. The 'Saphan Thaksin' extension to Thonburi and it's delays is a clear example of that.

Edited August 26, 2011 by rubl

[Screws]

With the changes, our train network won't be connected with our neighbours," he said.

Thus we move back to the 18th century, stifle our international cross border trade with our immediate neighbours. Indeed an inward looking malfunctioning administration.

Note that the South as usual again neglected, the industrial area of Rayong neglected.

Chang Mai, full steam ahead, one is led to speculate as to why Chang Mai which is hardly the centre of Thai industrial enterprises is the be all and end all for this scheme?

Not a private family rail connection in the offing surely ?

These proposals indeed make the Luddites seem positively radical

Neo-Luddism conjures pre-technological life as the best post-technological prospect (see also primitivism), or as Robin and Webster put it, "a return to nature and what are imagined as more natural communities".^[3] Industrial Society and Its Future (1995) is a recent expression of Neo-Luddism by Theodore Kaczynski, also known as the Unabomber.

Even better! Lets make a new rail gauge! And we will change it every day according to the value of the baht. And last but not least, lets put the rails overhead! No way those dam_n Cambodians will be able to connect to it then.

Or the Malays, Burmese, Lao or Chinese.

Now can I have my Minister for Transport badge?

[katasyd]

Come on guys, you all should understand how it works here.

Why build it all at once when they can do it in stages and skim the coffers 2 or 3 times.

3 skims are better than 1 in the corruption game.

[Samuian]

The government also intends to invest first in the Bangkok-Chiang Mai route.

These amendments will require a review of the cost estimates, Supodh said.

Sure, is Ms.20% the Auditor?

[rafish]

Why on earth would they not want to connect to neighbouring countries networks?

They don't want to connect directly into foreign countries lines as this would cut out the middle men in the transportation business. Truckers and their owners would be cut out of the revenue via the direct link between countries. Stopping lines before entry allows the government and private parties to collect extra taxes and payments. You've been in Thailand long enough to know when they do things that don't make any sense to foreigners the answer is always, "it's about money." Don't ever forget that.

[GazR]

Zzz...Someone wake me up at the end of the 21st Century or if Thailand ever sorts out 19th century rail transport - whichever comes first...zzZ.