Cbr 150 Sparkplug And Wire

[KRS1]

Iv been messing around with this CBR 150 and changed the sparkplug and wire a few days ago . The original wire is as skinny as a toothpick and there are literally only 7 strands of wire in the conductor ! So i switched it out for a thicker better wire as seen in the pic.

Also went through 4 different sparkplugs to see which one works best.:

Nippon Denso - U24ESR-N ...................80 baht

NGK - CR9E - (Standard tip) .............80 baht

NGK - CR8EIX - (Iridium needle tip) ......365 baht

NGK - CR8EGP- (Platinum needle tip) ...120 baht

The Nippon is better than the NGK CR9E

But both the Iridium and Platinum needle tips are wayyyyyyyyyy better than both the Nippon and CR9E

The Platinum is better than the Iridium and much cheaper. Where the Iridium fails is when your going close to full throttle and let off the gas then get back on it , like when your approaching a curve, the Iridium hesitates and is like its in a state of trying to catch up with the ignition system, sometimes driving with it feels like the bike is stalling because its so slow to ignite at high revs after you've let off the throttle, street riding at normal speeds is fine though. But going down a mountain with this plug really sucks donkey balls and feels like your stalling out and bogging when you get back on the throttle.

With both the plug and wire combined the acceleration is GREATLY improved, much smoother and can sustain it much easier. The wire after looking at it is actually just a normal piece of high strand flexible wire like what they use in car audio installations, looks to be a 12 gauge wire, but it would have to have a thick rubber/silicone jacket to protect it from heat though. I used the Daytona brand wire and removed the boot at both ends and just used the wire part. 180 baht.

The pilot screw on the stock carb is set to 2.75 turns out. (look at pic below to see what happens at 3.5 turns) I really recommend doing this mod to any carbed and more than likely the FI versions of the CBR 150 also. Go to the dealer to change the plug though, if you've never done it it will suck tremendously to do it yourself.

The coil (two 10mm bolts/need socket) where the wire is connected has a rubber boot around the junction remove that anyway you have to, you wont be able to use it again. There's also glue around it , but will be brittle so remove that and the wire will pull out. If you got the Daytona wire, use the boots provided. You will have to tear and break off the junction at the coil, just do it.

The sparkplug boot end of the wire screws off, so dont try to pull it out, unscrew the boot from the wire, cut the other Daytona boot in half and slip it over the new wire and junction.

You'll need to take off the gas tank (12mm bolt) and drivers seat (allen key or mini vice grips) to do this as well as the right middle fairing (4 x philips). The right radiator bolt needs to come out (11mm), and you tilt the bottom of the radiator forward to make clearance for your hand, the left fairing plugs into the left side of the fairing so pop that out too.

When removing the gas tank, it will scratch the side fairing pieces so be careful. You need to pull back the two plugs on each side of the fairing pieces that plugs into the gas tank. There will be two hoses coming off the tank as well as the fuel gauge plug, disconnect the plug before removing the tank. Follow the wire on the left side of the bike, where that rubber boot looking thing is thats hanging around the left side of the inside of the frame.

Remove the sparkplug boot by prying up with a flathead, remove the rubber bit in your sparkplug tool, the 14mm wrench fits on the end, crack the plug loose until you can spin the sparkplug tool with your fingers (easier to use both fingers on both hands to spin it)

When its out of the hole reinsert the rubber piece back into the sparkplug tool and push down on the sparkplug inside the hole and fish it out slowly.

To install the new plug keep the rubber piece in and insert plug into tool, finger tighten the tool until the threads bite, then remove rubber piece and screw tight.

Enjoy the faster smoother acceleration with better sustained top end speed! With a CDI with rev limiter removed and this sparkplug / wire modification, it will now keep up with a CBR 250 up to around 120kph on flat land, and wave good bye to the new FI model CBR 150. Yes i have ran against both bikes belonging to my friends.

32-34mm carb next, stay tuned.:jap:

This is what happens to the sparkplug at 3.5 turns of the pilot screw...very lean and very ashy white...keep it at 2.5-2.75 turns out.

Edited August 26, 2011 by KRS1

[kermitzkitchen]

KRS1 so your saying from only the sparkplug and wire mod as well as a CDI to take away the rev limiter that your bike now keeps up with the 250, your bike is completely stock otherwise?

It sort of goes along with what Ive found regarding minor mods for the FI version, changing the airfilter, sparkplug to iridium and changing sprockets and tyres, my bike also keeps up well with the 250 up to 100kmh where then the 250 starts to gain a lead.

Now Ive ridden both bikes, a guy down the road owns a 250 so we mess about with the bikes on the odd occasion and while undoubtedly the 250 is a better faster bike I really didnt find all that much in it after some minor cheap mods to the 150 when city riding is concerned.

[KRS1]

Yes bike is all stock, but the valves have been reshimmed to factory spec, makes a big difference on secondhand CBR 150's

Stock exhaust, stock sprockets, stock air filter, Shell 91 Benzene. 80/80 front 90/80 rear.

The carbed CBR 150 is lighter than both the new 150 and 250 as well. Tried to see what a 118 main jet would be like today, but the shop sold me a jet for a Pro-Arm carb and it doesnt fit. In the parts catalog , there are 2 carb needles, tried to get the 932 but they didnt have it, suppose to have a different taper than the stock 931 needle, going to try and order it from a different dealer and see what the difference is. But for tomorrow im going to raise the stock needle 1 mm and see how it affects the bike.

The crankcase breather tube also goes into the bottom of the airbox, when i pulled the carb today there was oil in the mouth, so im thinking there's both unnecessary heat as well as oil mist getting into the combustion chamber, causing it to run rich with less oxygen also do to the extra heat from the crankcase. The CBR likes to lose engine oil, and im pretty sure this is where its happening.

I also want to check out the secondary air injection valve located on the cylinder head and see if its causing the bike to lose power or aiding in it. The valve is for emissions and works by using a reed valve to induce vacuum into another air control valve leading into the secondary filter. It injects air into the exhaust port for better emissions.

I'd like to try a regular fuel valve instead of the vacuum operated one, but the fitting is totally different from a manual valve like on the NSR. I have an old valve, but there's no way to crack it open and gut it.

I think only a little bit more needs to be done before it will keep up with the CBR 250, not much more at all. 32mm carbs next, then tuning and tuning and tuning.and tuning.

[KRS1]

Lifted the carb needle on stock carb today, changed the exhaust note to a deep grunt and bike ran smoother, loved the way it felt...But lost acceleration and hard to go past 120 kph. If i bore the carb out a few millimeters it should match up fine though....if i didn't ride fast i would leave it in.

Also removed crankcase breather tube from airbox and connected it to another drain tube. Bike winds up better and engine tone has increased slightly to a higher pitch. Returned bike carb needle back to stock setting before this. The hole in the airbox where the tube use to go is still open.

[Hili]

did you modified anything on the airbox? holes in top or different filter? Does it help?

[KRS1]

Not this time, but ive tried drilling holes in the past with other CBR's...just gets louder and causes turbulence...doesn't work.

There's already 2 holes on the bottom of the airbox.

Edited August 29, 2011 by KRS1

[Semper]

KSR1

Adjusting the pilot screw, has little or nothing to do with the color of the spark plug.

[KRS1]

Yes it does, i spent 3 days experimenting with plugs, adjusting the pilot screw and idle.

To many turns and the bike will run too lean causing the plug to look burnt white, it definately effects it.

[Semper]

Yes it does, i spent 3 days experimenting with plugs, adjusting the pilot screw and idle.

To many turns and the bike will run too lean causing the plug to look burnt white, it definately effects it.

Well of course, if you let the engine idling for 5-10 minutes. But your topic is about getting more power from the engine, i.e. full throttle, then the idle mixture or the needle has anything to do with it. It's all about the size of the main jet.

Edited September 1, 2011 by Semper

[KRS1]

Rode it for 1 full day, ragging on it trying to get the highest acceleration to top speed then pulled the plug. You have to adjust the idle and pilot screw to tune the acceleration to top end as well, it doesnt just effect idle. If the idle is too high on this CBR it vibrates at high speeds, and the pilot screw is often refered to as the 'air screw'

The carb on the CBR 150 is a constant velocity type with an air cut off valve, the pilot screw also adjust the amount of air in the idle circuit and effects other parts of the powerband as well. A regular carb doesn't behave like this guy.

Im going to mess around with that air cut off valve and see what happens.

The main jet isn't the sole factor.

[Semper]

Rode it for 1 full day, ragging on it trying to get the highest acceleration to top speed then pulled the plug. You have to adjust the idle and pilot screw to tune the acceleration to top end as well, it doesnt just effect idle. If the idle is too high on this CBR it vibrates at high speeds, and the pilot screw is often refered to as the 'air screw'

The carb on the CBR 150 is a constant velocity type with an air cut off valve, the pilot screw also adjust the amount of air in the idle circuit and effects other parts of the powerband as well. A regular carb doesn't behave like this guy.

Im going to mess around with that air cut off valve and see what happens.

The main jet isn't the sole factor.

You have to adjust the idle and pilot screw to tune the acceleration to top end as well, it doesnt just effect idle

Sorry if I'm ignorant, but I don't believe this. It should work like this, idle to about 1/4 throttle, then the needle takes over until 3/4 throttle, then it's the main jet.

[KRS1]

The pilot screw affects the way the bike runs across the range.

Go turn the screw all the way down on your bike please then tell me how it runs.

[Semper]

The pilot screw affects the way the bike runs across the range.

Go turn the screw all the way down on your bike please then tell me how it runs.

On full throttle, it would run just fine.

[KRS1]

...and acceleration?

[Semper]

...and acceleration?

Well, if full throttle all the way, no difference. But I know what you mean. A smooth transition from stand still to top speed. Then it's a trial and error on the main jet and the needle.

However on a stock engine (stock exhaust) there is no need to alter the carb settings.

[KRS1]

Pretty cool little chart i dug up online.

hmmm instead of raising the needle im gonna drop it and see what happens.

Edited September 1, 2011 by KRS1

[uppalux]

I use NGK CR8EIX

and just changed spark plug wire . the core alone is bigger than the entire old wire (I use a cable for audio things . those that have transparency color )

Idle rev is lower , used to be 1700 but now 1500 and still not knock out .

I can release the clutch to let it glide at lower rev and not stall.

minimum rev to keep it slide without knock. before was 2900 rpm , now I can let it slide with more clutch open , yet , engine still running even the rev is so low till you hear every movement of your piston cleary , at 2500 or lower in every gear..

I'm not seeing any different at more than 6000 rpm

but below than that , I think it accelerate "a littlle bit" faster (may be my imagination).

I'll follow you closely

and I was considering about doing the ground wire .

but my brother , whice grad in elec engineer said would have no or little different for a new bike . since the ground system is still good , I don't have to mess with it .

but as I install a two set of projector HID fox lamp whice consume 11 amp, I think I still need more insurance

[Hili]

do the normal somchai shops have nkg platinium spark plugs? If not where u got them? Thanks

Edited September 2, 2011 by Hili

[KRS1]

usually not, but a shop that sells parts and accessories usually do. Get the platinum not the iridium.

Where are you? if im familiar with the area i can point you in the right direction.

[KRS1]

I use NGK CR8EIX

and just changed spark plug wire . the core alone is bigger than the entire old wire (I use a cable for audio things . those that have transparency color )

Idle rev is lower , used to be 1700 but now 1500 and still not knock out .

I can release the clutch to let it glide at lower rev and not stall.

minimum rev to keep it slide without knock. before was 2900 rpm , now I can let it slide with more clutch open , yet , engine still running even the rev is so low till you hear every movement of your piston cleary , at 2500 or lower in every gear..

I'm not seeing any different at more than 6000 rpm

but below than that , I think it accelerate "a littlle bit" faster (may be my imagination).

I'll follow you closely

and I was considering about doing the ground wire .

but my brother , whice grad in elec engineer said would have no or little different for a new bike . since the ground system is still good , I don't have to mess with it .

but as I install a two set of projector HID fox lamp whice consume 11 amp, I think I still need more insurance

Is your bike carb or Fi? On my carbed bike, it holds at 130kph much easier than before and gets there quite a bit quicker also. Wait till a CDI is released than it will really be able to take advantage of that extra spark.

When i did it , i went CDI first, then plug, then wire.

I've done ground wire kits in the past to some old cars and they worked. You have to remember that at the factory they use just enough grounding to get by within budget. Couldn't hurt, i'd give it a shot, especially if you have an Fi bike.

Edited September 2, 2011 by KRS1

[uppalux]

mine is FI version .

after 2 3 days . my effect froms spark plug wire changed.

Idle back to 1700 and effects apply to higher rev . noticeably lighter throttle especially after 7000 (I'm both impressed and don't understand)

I'm just asking ECU shop to make me custom one to use with E85. I always wanted to try it since it has 105 octane and still 10 baht less than e20.

It would take them some months to make it. but the guy at the shop also has 150FI so I don't need to leave the bike there.

after installation of CDI I would surely go for ground wire. (I already have the things all set cut clamped but just don't install it just yet)

[KRS1]

The ECU has taken the reading from the oxygen sensor and remapped the fuel delivery.

Now that there's a more complete combustion process going on, your bike is running leaner. The ECU probably increased the fuel delivery through the injectors to match oxygen sensor readings taken at the exhaust port, set at the factory to compensate for the lean readings. As result you turn the throttle less.

Higher octane doesnt mean more power, it has more to do with compression ratio. Go to the PURE gas station in my other post and prepare to be even MORE surprised how your bike runs.

Looks like you may not be needing that 250cc after all !

Where & how are you planning on installing the ground wires?

Edited September 3, 2011 by KRS1

[uppalux]

Ok , it's the ECU remapping.

I met this once , after I done removing catalytic out from my exhuast.

it take two or three day for it to take a real effect.

I think understand about the octane .

Higher octane doesn't make a bike produce more power

but the bike that have more power needs higher octane

sole purpose is 10+ baht less (that would make me 250 full tank instead of 350 of e20)

and if the guys would be able to make it run better , I take that as the addition.

fuel effect I have met was

I was be able to do top speed of 136 kmh on e20

but archive 145 on 95 pure , and it feel way more kick.

ground wire

I was choosing some wire and plugs in electronic shop

then some guy walk in , overhearding his conversation with shopowner know that he is a car tuner and making a volt stabilizer box and ground wire system commercially. so I just ask him.

he recommend what it seems to be a "battery size wire" 5 mil copper core and 1 mi thick insulator. total is 7 mil.

but as I was leaving the shop he said to me that the ground wire in a new bike won't be noticeable as the body ground system is still sufficient (he surely not know about my 2 xenon lamp eh) and in order to get the best for your system , a volt stabilizer should be install

well , sounds like a advertising , but I believe him and I think I should find a volt stabilizer install later.

but for now my ground would be like this

from - of battery to some bolt on engine crankcase left

from - of battery to some bolt on engine crankcase right

from some bolt on engine crankcase left to regulator

from some bolt on engine crankcase left to radiator fan

from some bolt on engine crankcase right to ignition coil

I would appreciate your advise on this as I have nearly zero knowledge about electronics (my brother grad in elec engineer though )

should I connect the ground wire system to a circle loop , or leave it have each their own way, of criss crossing all place?

[KRS1]

Ok , it's the ECU remapping.

I met this once , after I done removing catalytic out from my exhuast.

it take two or three day for it to take a real effect.

I think understand about the octane .

Higher octane doesn't make a bike produce more power

but the bike that have more power needs higher octane

sole purpose is 10+ baht less (that would make me 250 full tank instead of 350 of e20)

and if the guys would be able to make it run better , I take that as the addition.

fuel effect I have met was

I was be able to do top speed of 136 kmh on e20

but archive 145 on 95 pure , and it feel way more kick.

ground wire

I was choosing some wire and plugs in electronic shop

then some guy walk in , overhearding his conversation with shopowner know that he is a car tuner and making a volt stabilizer box and ground wire system commercially. so I just ask him.

he recommend what it seems to be a "battery size wire" 5 mil copper core and 1 mi thick insulator. total is 7 mil.

but as I was leaving the shop he said to me that the ground wire in a new bike won't be noticeable as the body ground system is still sufficient (he surely not know about my 2 xenon lamp eh) and in order to get the best for your system , a volt stabilizer should be install

well , sounds like a advertising , but I believe him and I think I should find a volt stabilizer install later.

but for now my ground would be like this

from - of battery to some bolt on engine crankcase left

from - of battery to some bolt on engine crankcase right

from some bolt on engine crankcase left to regulator

from some bolt on engine crankcase left to radiator fan

from some bolt on engine crankcase right to ignition coil

I would appreciate your advise on this as I have nearly zero knowledge about electronics (my brother grad in elec engineer though )

should I connect the ground wire system to a circle loop , or leave it have each their own way, of criss crossing all place?

So you already tried PURE 95? The one on the way to Pai?

Id bolt everything to the left engine crankcase cover, thats where the stator for the alternator is, and run another ground from the valve cover to the coil mounting bolts. There's a hose inlet on the cylinder head that has a bolt which may be a better spot. You want to ground the head because that's where the sparkplug is, and the sparkplug seat is currently how its grounded, which is already good, but has a long way to travel back to stator ground.

What ive done in the past is both a circle loop and a star configuration (criss cross all places), and have had good results. This time it's your turn to go first ! :jap:

Dont forget to remove the paint from your new ground points. A drill with an abrasive stone tip will be easiest.

How did the removing the catalyst help the power,did you lose power anywhere...down low maybe?

Edited September 4, 2011 by KRS1

[uppalux]

So you already tried PURE 95? The one on the way to Pai?

Id bolt everything to the left engine crankcase cover, thats where the stator for the alternator is, and run another ground from the valve cover to the coil mounting bolts. There's a hose inlet on the cylinder head that has a bolt which may be a better spot. You want to ground the head because that's where the sparkplug is, and the sparkplug seat is currently how its grounded, which is already good, but has a long way to travel back to stator ground.

What ive done in the past is both a circle loop and a star configuration (criss cross all places), and have had good results. This time it's your turn to go first ! :jap:

Dont forget to remove the paint from your new ground points. A drill with an abrasive stone tip will be easiest.

How did the removing the catalyst help the power,did you lose power anywhere...down low maybe?

Okay , then I would go for star configuration. and would mess crossing everyplaces - I have 3 meters of wire -

catalyst removing was good all around , really.

on low end , it come easier , lighter thorttle , sounds change to deeper lower hum and a little bit (little bit) louder

on middle to high end , throttle is also lighter , but it make some kind of jumping at 6500 - 7000 range . definitely jumping

after 2 days of removing . I start the engine up in the morning and was setting out for CMU . on the 7000 rpm of 2nd gear he just Pull me hard enough to panic me . but some weeks past , that jump has subtle down a bit.

I'm not losing any range . even the low range feels better , top speed gain for 2 - 3 kmph.

and I have just notice that you're in CNX , may be we have crossed somewhere , mine is all black Fi with a strange headlight and fornt turn signal .

may be messing around sometimes would be good , just want to see your bike.

[KRS1]

About the catalytic converter , Maybe you just got use to it after a few weeks? But if the ECU tried to revert back to factory spec emissions , that would be pretty interesting, because that would mean other mods would not be as effective unless there was some type of fuel management system and ignition retard/advance hardware installed.

See if the sparkplug wire mod last, or if the ECU tries to revert to factory emissions by adjusting the fuel ratio. If it does your probably going to have to find a way to trick the ECU, like installing a resistor on the oxygen sensor, but thats only if you need more resistance. If you need less that's going to be tougher. Time to talk to your brother !

I have the old CBR 150 nothing to look at..except my tailights if i ever see you ! ha !

Edited September 4, 2011 by KRS1

[uppalux]

I exchanged a ride with some friend around the house.

his was all stock and just 4000 km

results

exhuast sound . I thought it was just a little different . no , It's a totally different tone.

he said mine is better , and he gonna do the same.

engine

looks like I loosing some power at low end (3000- 5000 rpm)

can feel the different

but . thing is

I mark the reference point on the throttle

mine : feeling less power but use a Less thorttle at same speed .

his : have to open more throttle to in order to make same speed

If I open my thorttle as much as his , mine will jump , especially when on the highway after 7000 rpm , I was like . .. . . leaving him behind

without further more need to twist the thorttle (my wrist fixed) the rev just still went up by it self to around 8500 and yes, all this need less thorttle than my friend's

[KRS1]

The loss at low end is do to the catalytic convertor being removed.

Did you check to see the throttle cable adjusters were in the same position? The adjuster is at the end of the cable by the throttle. (one of them)

Edited September 8, 2011 by KRS1