Unidentified Foreigner Found Dead In Phitsanulok

[Johpa]

Police said rescue workers told them they had often seen the man driving a motorcycle. They said he liked drinking alcohol and could speak Thai.

I am amazed that given this profile that the hapless victim has not been identified by his peers here on ThaiVisa.

[Richard4849]

Except for the speaking Thai part, he probably matches the description of 90% of TV members...

[KeyserSoze01]

This is just going to be another thread bagging the cops.

No one talks about who is running the police force and why they do such a half ass job.

There has to be reasons.

Considering you can literally buy your way onto the police force and pay more to move up the ranks, it is not surprising that many of them are incapable of doing actual police / investigative work.

Regarding the victim, if the workers saw him around on his bike and knew he could speak Thai, then it wouldn't take but a few minutes for someone to know who he is. Even someone who bought their way onto the police force should be able to come to that conclusion.

Interesting point about how Thias progress through the ranks of the police force. Following the same line of thought, anyone, criminal or otherwise could "buy" their way into positions of authority within the system and influence investigations. Things that make you go hmm...

Your point about the victim's identity is also accurate. If he was known in the area and spoke thai, it would not take very long to identify him. How the investigation progresses depends on who wanted him dead in the first place.

All other observations are about the man's death are hypothetical until a motive can be determined.

[pastitche]

Sticky tape

According to the wife they call it Scottape here, probably due to the general expectation of getting away with murder scotfree.

No they don't, they call it Scotch Tape as do the Americans I believe because it is a registered name like Sellotape. "Scot free" has nothing to do with Scotland - it is an English term which originally meant free from royal tax. Scot is an archaic English term for tax. So your attempt at humour fails with pedantic pr*cks like me.

However I do live in Phitsanulok and the wife's cousin is a rescue worker so I ask if he knows anything about it tomorrow.

Apparently he had a lot of Buddhist amulets on his person when found - some valuable (local newspaper report)

Someone asked about the attitude of local Thais - in Phitsanulok I am treated as I have always been. I am not a curiosity nor am I anything special. Most of the time people look at me as they did where I came from - if they recognise me, they will show that recognition; if they don't, they will pass on. Farangs are not as thick on the ground as in tourist areas nor as rare as in truly rural areas but they are not uncommon and are just treated as part of the environment with the occasional smile

[OzMick]

I assume he was either unconscious when the bag was placed over his head or his hands were tied. Further if his eyes and mouth were taped I would assume the death was not intended, there is no point in preventing someone from seeing you if you intend to kill them.

There is a common Thai belief that if a victim sees the murderer before the victim dies, the .latter's spirit will haunt the murderer the rest of his life.

It is amazing the crap that people will believe - there is even a TV program on this same myth. You have to laugh, but no worse than any other religion.

[OzMick]

Sticky tape

According to the wife they call it Scottape here, probably due to the general expectation of getting away with murder scotfree.

No they don't, they call it Scotch Tape as do the Americans I believe because it is a registered name like Sellotape. "Scot free" has nothing to do with Scotland - it is an English term which originally meant free from royal tax. Scot is an archaic English term for tax. So your attempt at humour fails with pedantic pr*cks like me.

However I do live in Phitsanulok and the wife's cousin is a rescue worker so I ask if he knows anything about it tomorrow.

Apparently he had a lot of Buddhist amulets on his person when found - some valuable (local newspaper report)

Someone asked about the attitude of local Thais - in Phitsanulok I am treated as I have always been. I am not a curiosity nor am I anything special. Most of the time people look at me as they did where I came from - if they recognise me, they will show that recognition; if they don't, they will pass on. Farangs are not as thick on the ground as in tourist areas nor as rare as in truly rural areas but they are not uncommon and are just treated as part of the environment with the occasional smile

Buddhist amulets may be expensive, but don't mistake that term with valuable.

[sbk]

Posts deleted, show a bit of sensitivity people.

[Britannia]

Does anyone know how PHITSANULOK ranks in terms of friendliness towards foreigners? Just curious since I've always thought Thais are friendlier outside of Bangkok. Maybe I'm wrong...but it seems to have been my experience.

Interesting. To conclude, how friendly Thais be in an area, because the body of a western man was found there. When I follow this argument, it seems, Thai people in Pattaya must be very unfriendly. Otherwise not so much foreigners would jump from roofs and get killed... strange logic.

This is not to say Farang do not get involved in their own dangerous activities, it is just one of the scenarios. R.I.P.

Choose your wife carefuly

Also another great opinion. Someone's dead and you recommend to choose your THAI wife carefully??? You know more then others?

Honestly, when I read most statements here, I'm only wondering. So many prejudgments of people.

It doesn't matter,from which countries those members come, writing something like this. But I'm sure in each of this countries also Thai people were killed and made suicide. So I guess, I also should warn here. Because, if I believe in this statements made here in this thread, I simply have to conclude, we are all unfriendly people. And as for sure most dead Thais in your and our home countries are female, we also should say "choose your (Farang) spouse very careful".

Someone is dead. He could be killed, but he also could have made suicide. We don't know. We only know, what ever is behind this story, it is a sad story. Why such sad stories always be used to make such prejudgements, I won't understand. Do you feel boring? You hate Thais? What you do here (in a Thailand related forum and in Thailand itself), if you think so about people here??? Why???

My condolences to the family.

Yes It must be that I know more than others,

I have been married to same Thai lady for 8 years, never met a more honest person, it comes from the fact that she has self respect.

But I have seen the scenario of Thai women that could not give a dam_n about their Farang husband other than he is just a money source.

Would I tarnish all Thais with the same brush? Never! But the gambling debts scenario and the collectors/enforcers situation I have come across many times.

Are Thais bad? Is Thailand bad? If I thought that, I would be gone but I am still here

If you think this sounds like suicide, well join the men in brown, your on their wave lenth

[zabaleta]

Does anyone know how PHITSANULOK ranks in terms of friendliness towards foreigners? Just curious since I've always thought Thais are friendlier outside of Bangkok. Maybe I'm wrong...but it seems to have been my experience.

if you think thai's are friendlier outside of bangkok,maybe you haven't been to pattaya!!!!!!

[katana]

I seem to recall a similar incident 6-12 months ago, older farang, bagged and bound and thrown in a klong upcountry? Not saying they are related...

This one? Don't know re 'older' though I thought it was reported as likely being 30s.

Kamphaeng Phet in April of this year, unidentified farang found in a canal weighed down with blocks of concrete, had been knifed. Had shaved head, and tattoos incl 'LOVE' on his chest.

As far as I know he was never identified.

It was reported in ThaiRath but has now been archived.

Thai Visa thread here

The video of his body being recovered is still on YouTube.

Maybe you mean this one? Someone might recognise him from the description - he had a tattoo of a butterfly perched on a flower on the left of his chest with the word 'Love' below in English letters.

Unidentified body of a farang found tied to a lump of concrete submerged in an irrigation canal in Kamphaeng Phet Province (Thairath 23/04/11)

The body of a male farang was found in Tambon Nikhom Thung Pho Thale in Thailand's Northern province of Kamphaeng Phet on the 22nd of April. Time of death was thought to be not more than 3 days prior.

The body was only found due to the water level dropping in the canal revealing the corpse, the canal being in a desolate area in a rice paddy with no nearby buildings.

He had a shaved/bald head, was naked except for striped black boxer shorts and his hands were tied to his neck with nylon cord. There was a tattoo of a butterfly perched on a flower on the left of his chest with the word 'Love' below in English letters.

Knife wounds to the left temple and the left nape of the neck were present and the rest of the head was covered in bruises and marks consistent with being hit with a blunt instrument.

The body was taken to Kamphaeng Phet Hospital for an autopsy. Police are treating it as murder and are appealing for anyone with a missing farang relative or friend to go to the hospital to see the body.

http://www.thairath.co.th/content/region/166104 (23/04/11)

Edited August 28, 2011 by katana

[katana]

There is a bit more information on the 77.nationchannel.com website of this thread's more recent Phitsanuloke murder, along with a grisly video showing the recovery of the corpse.

The body was initially discovered on 16/08/11 by someone out fishing. They saw just its feet sticking out the water but thought it was a mannequin or doll because there was other rubbish in the water. The next day they went back and the body had emerged and was floating on the water so they called the police.

A Nokia mobile phone was found in the victim's shirt pocket, which if it's his should mean he can be identified. They also found several Buddha amulets and charms on him. All quite strange that these items were left.

It's thought he'd been dead for 2-3 days.

http://77.nationchannel.com/playvideo.php?id=170318

Edited August 28, 2011 by katana

[crazydrummerpauly]

As per Wikipedia......

The per 100,000 people murder rate for America is 5.0

The per 100,000 people murder rate for Thailand is 5.9

What would be fascinating to see would be the tourist murder rate per 100,000 here in Thailand.

But I suspect that figure is not open to public knowledge......

Mmmm, yes, and even more disappointing is the idea that statistics ( which i like a lot ) relevant to this and many other kinds of 'incident' specifically involving farangs, are not even collated and and arranged systematically at all - does anyone know anything factual about this idea ? Please no-one serve up the old saw : 'Lies, dam_n lies and statistics' - without

stats of any kind, all attempts to understand the wider societal realities of individual happenings can only ever be shaky generalisations based on personal experience, rumour, gossip, prejudice or dodgy journalism - which is often not much more than a few bare facts embellished with all the preceding errors...

Edited August 28, 2011 by crazydrummerpauly

[moe666]

These situations just prove you have to be carefull who you choose for friends and who you hang out with.

[anterian]

I assume he was either unconscious when the bag was placed over his head or his hands were tied. Further if his eyes and mouth were taped I would assume the death was not intended, there is no point in preventing someone from seeing you if you intend to kill them.

There is a common Thai belief that if a victim sees the murderer before the victim dies, the .latter's spirit will haunt the murderer the rest of his life.

Thank you for reminding me, I'm getting old Yes this is a common belief in many parts of the world, additionally the belief that a suitably gifted person (witch doctor) can look into a dead person's eyes and see what he saw at the moment of death. It even feature prominently in literature.

http://jv.gilead.org.il/evans/optogram.html

[SICHONSTEVE]

'OzMick'[/size] timestamp='1314514683' post='4656120']

Thoughts are with the family, next of kin.

I don't see how crimes reported in the USA have any bearing on this.

If the rescue workers told the police he could speak Thai, then one assumes they knew which country he came from.

I can see why you assume this unless they had asked him. while native english speakers can often pick regional accents, it is very unusual for non-native speakers to have this ability. Can you pick Thai regional accents - I'm told that Thais can quite easily.

Sorry for asking, but What does this mean!!!!

You got to it before I edited the "can" to "can't". In short, just because people know that he speaks Thai, doesn't mean that they will know his country of origin.

OK, it makes sense now!!!! surprising how one letter changes the whole context!!!

[beano2274]

With all the information I would have thought that someone on here must have an idea who he was.

RIP.

[Steely Dan]

Sticky tape

According to the wife they call it Scottape here, probably due to the general expectation of getting away with murder scotfree.

No they don't, they call it Scotch Tape as do the Americans I believe because it is a registered name like Sellotape. "Scot free" has nothing to do with Scotland - it is an English term which originally meant free from royal tax. Scot is an archaic English term for tax. So your attempt at humour fails with pedantic pr*cks like me.

However I do live in Phitsanulok and the wife's cousin is a rescue worker so I ask if he knows anything about it tomorrow.

Apparently he had a lot of Buddhist amulets on his person when found - some valuable (local newspaper report)

Someone asked about the attitude of local Thais - in Phitsanulok I am treated as I have always been. I am not a curiosity nor am I anything special. Most of the time people look at me as they did where I came from - if they recognise me, they will show that recognition; if they don't, they will pass on. Farangs are not as thick on the ground as in tourist areas nor as rare as in truly rural areas but they are not uncommon and are just treated as part of the environment with the occasional smile

Well I never, thanks for that piece of etymology. Concerning the amulets they obviously didn't confer the desired protection. RIP to the poor bloke.

[zydeco]

Has there been any determination of nationality yet? I don't see it in the body of posts. You do have to wonder. It seems of late as if a good number of these stories about derelict Westerners meeting an untimely end usually end up centering on some broken down British hobo.

[LomSak27]

I e mailed some friends who live in Loke, and they have not heard anything as of yet. A couple mentioned there are more westerners hanging about then one would suspect (if living there). One did say P-loke is a nice place but there is a hard edge in certain areas and he is cautious.

Sound policy

[ableguy]

Totally sad case, could be you or me who knows. The only answer is stay vigalent and without knowing this man I would add what my mantra is. Stay away from rough bars , be carefull who you associate with and avoid insulting Thais as they are a law to themselves, Hope the police catch the scumbags .

[Richard4849]

Stay away from rough bars , be carefull who you associate with and avoid insulting Thais as they are a law to themselves.

I guess we haven't learned our lesson about blaming Thais for every farang murder that occurs in Thailand.

[Atmos]

I guess we haven't learned our lesson about blaming Thais for every farang murder that occurs in Thailand.

indeed - three high-profile Phuket farang murders have involved an Englishman, an Italian, and two from Sweden.

But . . . the conspiracy theorists would have them all being set-ups by corrupt police blah blah blah . . . Thais to blame etc ad nauseum

[Richard4849]

I guess we haven't learned our lesson about blaming Thais for every farang murder that occurs in Thailand.

indeed - three high-profile Phuket farang murders have involved an Englishman, an Italian, and two from Sweden.

But . . . the conspiracy theorists would have them all being set-ups by corrupt police blah blah blah . . . Thais to blame etc ad nauseum

...and the Kiwi killed by a Syrian in Pattaya.

[dancw3]

If an autopsy is needed?

That's a strange comment or is this a huge misinterpretation?

Although the cause of death may appear obvious, an autopsy must be conducted in order to legally establish the cause of death and forward ahead as a murder investigation..

Do a search on Google and you will be amazed at how many farangs meet a drastic end per year in Thailand. It`s almost wholesale slaughter and if this wasn't so tragic it could almost be classified as a joke.

I have to wonder what these people are doing here, what and who they become involved with?

Absurd. Another chronic miscontent,, I suppose. You come to a conclusion as to what the murder rate for foreigners is based on a Google search??

[sfbandung]

I guess we haven't learned our lesson about blaming Thais for every farang murder that occurs in Thailand.

indeed - three high-profile Phuket farang murders have involved an Englishman, an Italian, and two from Sweden.

But . . . the conspiracy theorists would have them all being set-ups by corrupt police blah blah blah . . . Thais to blame etc ad nauseum

...and the Kiwi killed by a Syrian in Pattaya.

I've made mention before about the level of Thai bashing that goes on here.

Still surprises me but this exchange is refreshing. That Kiwi and the Syrian, what a bloody sordid tale that was. And I love how the police parade them out and have a press conference!

Edited August 29, 2011 by sfbandung

[dancw3]

Usually, there is more to these stories than the information that is initially presented. The news reports tend to fixate on gory details and often offer exagerated descriptions. It may very well turn out that there was no bag over his head, nor tape. Too many times we read reports that are rife with inaccuracies.

This reminds me of the Swede killed in Pattaya a couple weeks ago. All kinds of comments about how dangerous Thailand is for farangs and how bad the police are. Then a day later the police had found the killers (not bad police work) and they were a couple Swedes.

[Richard4849]

I guess we haven't learned our lesson about blaming Thais for every farang murder that occurs in Thailand.

indeed - three high-profile Phuket farang murders have involved an Englishman, an Italian, and two from Sweden.

But . . . the conspiracy theorists would have them all being set-ups by corrupt police blah blah blah . . . Thais to blame etc ad nauseum

...and the Kiwi killed by a Syrian in Pattaya.

I've made mention before about the level of Thai bashing that goes on here.

Still surprises me but this exchange is refreshing. That Kiwi and the Syrian, what a bloody sordid tale that was. And I love how the police parade them out and have a press conference!

Not particularly sordid as far as Pattaya goes.

[LomSak27]

I've made mention before about the level of Thai bashing that goes on here.

Sure but that's par for the Thaivisa course. That said unless "Bricktop" is vacationing in P-loke , without his pigs, plastic bag with tape is not too common a method in western countries.

[lannarebirth]

As per Wikipedia......

The per 100,000 people murder rate for America is 5.0

The per 100,000 people murder rate for Thailand is 5.9

What would be fascinating to see would be the tourist murder rate per 100,000 here in Thailand.

But I suspect that figure is not open to public knowledge......

There was a topic on that very subject maybe a year ago. It had a British slant to it, but the gist of the story was, there is no more lethal place on Earth for Brits than Thailand.

Edited August 29, 2011 by lannarebirth

[Richard4849]

I already found the number of US nationals murdered in Thailand last year: one.

I'll leave it up to someone else to find numbers for other nationalities.