Marrying An Older Thai And The Sid Sod.

[prakhonchai nick]

The sooner the Thais grow up and learn to live without the nonsense of "face" the better off they will be all round!

They currently gain enough "face" just by having a farang in the family. No need for a dowry.

Actually, marrying a foreigner, especially one much older than the bride, is a slight loss face. It's an admission of defeat; the woman could not find a suitable mate within her own community. The oblivious foreign husband of course is led to believe the exact opposite and blithely takes this delusional aggrandizement to his grave.

BTW, in many cases, 'face' is just another word for dignity. I'm sure, when you say Thai's should live without the nonsense of 'face', what you mean is that they should reexamine and then redefine what constitutes 'face'. If so, I agree.

So a Thai family who demand and get a huge sum of money for selling their daughter (whether to a Thai or a farang) don't just gain face, but DIGNITY also?? I see nothing dignified in robbing someone

[transam]

The sooner the Thais grow up and learn to live without the nonsense of "face" the better off they will be all round!

They currently gain enough "face" just by having a farang in the family. No need for a dowry.

Actually, marrying a foreigner, especially one much older than the bride, is a slight loss face. It's an admission of defeat; the woman could not find a suitable mate within her own community. The oblivious foreign husband of course is led to believe the exact opposite and blithely takes this delusional aggrandizement to his grave.

BTW, in many cases, 'face' is just another word for dignity. I'm sure, when you say Thai's should live without the nonsense of 'face', what you mean is that they should reexamine and then redefine what constitutes 'face'. If so, I agree.

So a Thai family who demand and get a huge sum of money for selling their daughter (whether to a Thai or a farang) don't just gain face, but DIGNITY also?? I see nothing dignified in robbing someone

Tend to agree.

[IAMHERE]

300,000 was to start with for sid sot. From that amount I'd subtract any money she's gotten through her bar work. When she was 18 or maybe right before she started bar, then she was worth 300,000. Now she is used goods, prostitutes don't deserve sid sot at all, but to keep the peace go ahead and adjust the asking price for her and pay that amount.

[mrtoad]

300,000 was to start with for sid sot. From that amount I'd subtract any money she's gotten through her bar work. When she was 18 or maybe right before she started bar, then she was worth 300,000. Now she is used goods, prostitutes don't deserve sid sot at all, but to keep the peace go ahead and adjust the asking price for her and pay that amount.

500 baht then?

[khunPer]

The sooner the Thais grow up and learn to live without the nonsense of "face" the better off they will be all round!

They currently gain enough "face" just by having a farang in the family. No need for a dowry.

Actually, marrying a foreigner, especially one much older than the bride, is a slight loss face. It's an admission of defeat; the woman could not find a suitable mate within her own community. The oblivious foreign husband of course is led to believe the exact opposite and blithely takes this delusional aggrandizement to his grave.

BTW, in many cases, 'face' is just another word for dignity. I'm sure, when you say Thai's should live without the nonsense of 'face', what you mean is that they should reexamine and then redefine what constitutes 'face'. If so, I agree.

So a Thai family who demand and get a huge sum of money for selling their daughter (whether to a Thai or a farang) don't just gain face, but DIGNITY also?? I see nothing dignified in robbing someone

So a Westerner may think. I do not disagree, but it is really a cross-cultural problem. As much as we Westerners think it is wrong to pay for a wife, as much the Thais believes it is right.

Remember, we Westerners are guests in Thailand. And we do not need to fall in love with Thai ladies - then we do not need to discuss or pay Sin Sot.

However, it does happen – quite often – that a Western man completely looses his heart and common sense: Falling in love with a smiling Thai beauty.

Some (few) ladies may get that used to Western tradition, that they will accept only a very small or no support to their family back home, hereunder a small or no Sin Sot. But most Thai ladies think the "Thai way" – and their commitment to their family stands above all.

Try to reverse the subject. Try to think if someone comes to the Westerners homeland and wish to change the cultural tradition in marriage and wedding ceremonies, saying all we are doing is wrong and that their "system" is both better and right! Do we accept it? That is actually a problem in many European countries with the Muslims and their arranged marriage tradition etc.

Remember: "Thailand is number one." What happens outside - in the World - is of small or no interest for the Thais, who do not like to be criticized – loosing face – and to be told, what to do from a foreigner. Inspiration from abroad may be accepted, when it is adapted to "the Thai way" of doing things.

So if we Westerners wish to go for a Thai relationship – marriage or just girl friend – we have to bite some corners. It may well be both the farang and the Thai. A "reasonable" Sin Sot for a farang, is a matter of compromise, face for the family – and probably most important, to keep enough common sense, not to be "used" and ripped off.

You cannot buy love – but you can buy something, which look exactly like love!

Edited September 4, 2011 by khunPer

[Patronus]

The sooner the Thais grow up and learn to live without the nonsense of "face" the better off they will be all round!

They currently gain enough "face" just by having a farang in the family. No need for a dowry.

Actually, marrying a foreigner, especially one much older than the bride, is a slight loss face. It's an admission of defeat; the woman could not find a suitable mate within her own community. The oblivious foreign husband of course is led to believe the exact opposite and blithely takes this delusional aggrandizement to his grave.

BTW, in many cases, 'face' is just another word for dignity. I'm sure, when you say Thai's should live without the nonsense of 'face', what you mean is that they should reexamine and then redefine what constitutes 'face'. If so, I agree.

This is typical of the arrogance one sees sometimes with Thais. it is the same arrogance that spawn s the belief that Suvarnabhumi airport is better than KL, Preah Vihear belongs to Thailand and that Thai silk is the best in the word.

My partner has said that she chose to look for a Falang because she wanted a better life than that which a Thai could provide. I think her ex Thai husband's excessive drinking and adultery was also a factor. Apparantly, Falangs do not get p!ssed everyday, treat their women like possessions, take a series of mia noi's and fornicate with anyone in the village who 'wants it'.

[Grove]

One thing i learn about lady like this...she not stop taking money from whoever man will be around.If you to ask this brit guy if HE does trust her then he will pobable to say same as OP..YES she good girl..wait for me only and joke about taking money off other poor sucker

He's probably already paid his 300 000 sin sot on an engagement with her.

[Grove]

Mate, a few basic rules will make your life happier:

1. Never ever consider marriage in the West. Worst contract ever.

2. Marriage in Thailand can be considered once you are over 60.

Until then, you will have hundreds of cute girlfriends and will be able to understand the consequences.

And keep out of the bar scene. Nothing to be gained there.

Good advice.

I would guess that between all we old " suckers" here, we have lost more money to bargirls than Thaksin stole from Thailand.

[prakhonchai nick]

The sooner the Thais grow up and learn to live without the nonsense of "face" the better off they will be all round!

They currently gain enough "face" just by having a farang in the family. No need for a dowry.

Actually, marrying a foreigner, especially one much older than the bride, is a slight loss face. It's an admission of defeat; the woman could not find a suitable mate within her own community. The oblivious foreign husband of course is led to believe the exact opposite and blithely takes this delusional aggrandizement to his grave.

BTW, in many cases, 'face' is just another word for dignity. I'm sure, when you say Thai's should live without the nonsense of 'face', what you mean is that they should reexamine and then redefine what constitutes 'face'. If so, I agree.

So a Thai family who demand and get a huge sum of money for selling their daughter (whether to a Thai or a farang) don't just gain face, but DIGNITY also?? I see nothing dignified in robbing someone

So a Westerner may think. I do not disagree, but it is really a cross-cultural problem. As much as we Westerners think it is wrong to pay for a wife, as much the Thais believes it is right.

Remember, we Westerners are guests in Thailand. And we do not need to fall in love with Thai ladies - then we do not need to discuss or pay Sin Sot.

However, it does happen – quite often – that a Western man completely looses his heart and common sense: Falling in love with a smiling Thai beauty.

Some (few) ladies may get that used to Western tradition, that they will accept only a very small or no support to their family back home, hereunder a small or no Sin Sot. But most Thai ladies think the "Thai way" – and their commitment to their family stands above all.

Try to reverse the subject. Try to think if someone comes to the Westerners homeland and wish to change the cultural tradition in marriage and wedding ceremonies, saying all we are doing is wrong and that their "system" is both better and right! Do we accept it? That is actually a problem in many European countries with the Muslims and their arranged marriage tradition etc.

Remember: "Thailand is number one." What happens outside - in the World - is of small or no interest for the Thais, who do not like to be criticized – loosing face – and to be told, what to do from a foreigner. Inspiration from abroad may be accepted, when it is adapted to "the Thai way" of doing things.

So if we Westerners wish to go for a Thai relationship – marriage or just girl friend – we have to bite some corners. It may well be both the farang and the Thai. A "reasonable" Sin Sot for a farang, is a matter of compromise, face for the family – and probably most important, to keep enough common sense, not to be "used" and ripped off.

You cannot buy love – but you can buy something, which look exactly like love!

Some very relevant comments here Per.

You speak of a matter of compromise. Fine, Let's start there. If the normal dowry expected for a girl marrying a Thai man is lets say 100,000BT, then we compromise and START half way...50,000BT. That's a fair beginning - a mix of both cultures.

let's progress. The daughter has chosen to marry the foreigner.A matter of love?...maybe but more likely perceived wealth.

Indeed it is highly likely that for the duration of the impending marriage, the new wife will receive far more benefits (nice house, car, spending money) than she would ever likely receive from the average Thai man.. That will be worth far more than the balance of 50,000bt mentioned above.

If neither future wife nor family can see this and realise the potential, but insist through greed upon the foreigner paying through the nose at the outset, they deserve nothing, and the daughter will end up back at square 1 facing the prospect of remaining single or marrying a basically no good local Thai lad.

Per - as you say "And we do not need to fall in love with Thai ladies - then we do not need to discuss or pay Sin Sot" Absolutely, since the Thai lady similarly has no need to fall in love with a foreigner. Marry a Thai if you want sin sot! The choice is hers!

[IanForbes]

Good advice.

I would guess that between all we old " suckers" here, we have lost more money to bargirls than Thaksin stole from Thailand.

Who said we LOST any money? We paid for a service and most often got good value for our money. Nobody stole anything. When you sample a lot of "produce" eventually you find a jewel amongst the used goods.

[andrewbkk]

Actually, marrying a foreigner, especially one much older than the bride, is a slight loss face. It's an admission of defeat; the woman could not find a suitable mate within her own community. The oblivious foreign husband of course is led to believe the exact opposite and blithely takes this delusional aggrandizement to his grave.

Tha's very true.

A farang is almost always a second choice. Keeping prostitutes out of the equation, a Thai women will usually only go with us because ...

1. she's had a bad experience with a Thai man

2. she's a divorcee with children

3. she's over a certain age and considered to be an "old lady"

On another note, I believe that men who pay sin-sod are more likely to have enduring marriages. The logic here is quite simple ...

A. Only weak foreigners pay sin-sod

B. Thai women are often very controlling

C. Weak men will relinquish control in the relationship and make all "necessary" compromises

D. The Thai woman will be happy. There will be little or no conflict in the relationship

E. Ergo ......... the relationship has a good chance of survival

In relationships between Thai women and strong foreigners (ie, men who do NOT pay sin-sod), the level of conflict is likely to be higher. Ergo, the relationship has a lower chance of survival.

[Bagwan]

have you met her children yet?

I think you will find that the two neices are her childrens... of that I am 99% certain... 300k is way too much, I called of my wedding last year to an ex hooker, but my amount was 40,000 bahts and her father was to return half to me after the wedding...(about saving face) I also had to buy the usual gold trinkets etc... You are being taken to the cleaners... I am here since 1990, have a lot of lady experience ... Try to walk away from her... really , I know its difficult, but its for the best.. She will break your heart and your bank balance... Breaking your own heart is much easier and cheaper... They are like buses... another one is coming from just around the corner...!!!

You obviously are not a Londoner. The usual drill is to stand in the pouring rain for at least 30 minutes and then 3 buses in convoy come along. At least one will drive straight past you making sure that it passes through a large puddle so that you are sprayed from head to toe.

[Thakkar]

The sooner the Thais grow up and learn to live without the nonsense of "face" the better off they will be all round!

They currently gain enough "face" just by having a farang in the family. No need for a dowry.

Actually, marrying a foreigner, especially one much older than the bride, is a slight loss face. It's an admission of defeat; the woman could not find a suitable mate within her own community. The oblivious foreign husband of course is led to believe the exact opposite and blithely takes this delusional aggrandizement to his grave.

BTW, in many cases, 'face' is just another word for dignity. I'm sure, when you say Thai's should live without the nonsense of 'face', what you mean is that they should reexamine and then redefine what constitutes 'face'. If so, I agree.

This is typical of the arrogance one sees sometimes with Thais. it is the same arrogance that spawn s the belief that Suvarnabhumi airport is better than KL, Preah Vihear belongs to Thailand and that Thai silk is the best in the word.

My partner has said that she chose to look for a Falang because she wanted a better life than that which a Thai could provide. I think her ex Thai husband's excessive drinking and adultery was also a factor. Apparantly, Falangs do not get p!ssed everyday, treat their women like possessions, take a series of mia noi's and fornicate with anyone in the village who 'wants it'.

Yes, in a way, it *is* a kind of arrogance, though not the same as "Thai silk's the best", etc. This arrogance is more nuanced, without necessarily all the negativity one usually attaches to the word. And I'm sure it's not unique to Thai's.

A beautiful young lady, even a prostitute, would, I suspect, rather marry a man who shares her ethos, language and interests, and is of a similar age; someone she finds physically attractive, and, as importantly, someone with reasonable prospects in life—educated, hard-working or at least ambitious (preferably all three).

Any marriage venture is fraught with risk. For (especially rural) Thai's (who are just joining the global village and so are still quite insular), marriage to a foreigner with an alien culture, is even more perilous and so less agreeable, and marriage to a foreigner twice one's age, well that certainly wouldn't be an attractive young woman's first choice.

[This is not to say such marriages don't work, or are a bad idea. All the important dynamics in a marriage come into play *after* the nuptials. The resulting bliss (or at least some kind of 'success')—or grief—depends on the daily management of the various dynamics by all concerned. Respect, sensitivity and astuteness help tip the balance in favor of some kind of success.]

But, yes, marriage to a foreigner, particularly where there's a big age gap, could be legitimately seen—except, perhaps, in purely material terms— as a step down, a second choice. The resulting 'arrogance' is born of that.

Having said that...Women are hard enough to understand as it is. Women with a different language, culture, upbringing, etc even more so. I'm in no position to fathom, let alone judge, why a woman makes a particular choice. I *can* say with confidence though that the small number of men we see on these forums who think that they are God's gift to Thai women, suffer from delusions of grandeur. That was really my only point.

T

[edthesock]

have you met her children yet?

Ha!

[Latindancer]

Hello, Bananas !

Is the Original Poster still around ?

[F1fanatic]

Good advice.

I would guess that between all we old " suckers" here, we have lost more money to bargirls than Thaksin stole from Thailand.

Who said we LOST any money? We paid for a service and most often got good value for our money. Nobody stole anything. When you sample a lot of "produce" eventually you find a jewel amongst the used goods.

Extremely unlikely, but you're right - nobody should have the 'nerve' to complain - they paid for a service and received it.

[weary]

Haven't any of these Thai women ever offered to pay one of you handsome young guys sinsod? I would think they would be jumping all over you all.

No, they just want us for our bodies.

[Grove]

Good advice.

I would guess that between all we old " suckers" here, we have lost more money to bargirls than Thaksin stole from Thailand.

Who said we LOST any money? We paid for a service and most often got good value for our money. Nobody stole anything. When you sample a lot of "produce" eventually you find a jewel amongst the used goods.

That's not what I said. A couple of us did not sample a lot of " produce" and found a jewel. Some of us thought he found the jewel and then it was only " Pre-meditaded exstortion".

[aneliane]

The comments here are really shocking.

The OP is asking about sinsod price or quotation, nothing else;

He obviously has deep feelings for this girl, and has for several years.

You should respect that regardless of who/what she is, or what you think she is.

Trying to warn others about so called "mistakes" is useless and stupid.

Our mistakes make who we are.

They are needed in our personal development.

[IanForbes]

The comments here are really shocking.

The OP is asking about sinsod price or quotation, nothing else;

He obviously has deep feelings for this girl, and has for several years.

You should respect that regardless of who/what she is, or what you think she is.

Trying to warn others about so called "mistakes" is useless and stupid.

Our mistakes make who we are.

They are needed in our personal development.

You COULD be right, aneliane, but wisdom is often wasted on the youth. Not all bar girls are evil money grubbers. In fact, if taken out of their personal circumstances they are no different than anyone else. It's just that they have been "burned" so many times themselves that they've learned to play the game by the same rules as the men play... it's all about the money. I've known many bar girls who made excellent wives for older expats and the girls never worked that scene again. But, if they feel cheated or get treated poorly by the men then it's understandable that they will go back to their old ways.

One thing I've learned about the Thais is they live in the immediate "now" time frame. They seldom plan for the future because they've seen too many instances that their plans for the future never come. You get what ever money you can right now and hope that there MIGHT be more available later. It is the same, simple concept as children in western cultures. If you offer a group of children one candy right now, but if they wait half an hour they can have a whole box of candies, most children will take the one candy immediately. However, a few of the smarter ones will wait the half hour for a whole box of candies. It is a learned trait and takes time.

[phuturatica]

Oh dear...

I think 21 is too young to be getting married for any western individual no matter where they are in the world!

As for the lady in question's background... Well I think enough people have given their 2 cents to suggest what usually happens in this kind of situation, however this lady could be different. I'm not going to be the one to judge...But yes, just be careful and make sure it's definitely something you want to do. 300,000THB sounds like an awful lot of money.

[aneliane]

The comments here are really shocking.

The OP is asking about sinsod price or quotation, nothing else;

He obviously has deep feelings for this girl, and has for several years.

You should respect that regardless of who/what she is, or what you think she is.

Trying to warn others about so called "mistakes" is useless and stupid.

Our mistakes make who we are.

They are needed in our personal development.

You COULD be right, aneliane, but wisdom is often wasted on the youth. Not all bar girls are evil money grubbers. In fact, if taken out of their personal circumstances they are no different than anyone else. It's just that they have been "burned" so many times themselves that they've learned to play the game by the same rules as the men play... it's all about the money. I've known many bar girls who made excellent wives for older expats and the girls never worked that scene again. But, if they feel cheated or get treated poorly by the men then it's understandable that they will go back to their old ways.

One thing I've learned about the Thais is they live in the immediate "now" time frame. They seldom plan for the future because they've seen too many instances that their plans for the future never come. You get what ever money you can right now and hope that there MIGHT be more available later. It is the same, simple concept as children in western cultures. If you offer a group of children one candy right now, but if they wait half an hour they can have a whole box of candies, most children will take the one candy immediately. However, a few of the smarter ones will wait the half hour for a whole box of candies. It is a learned trait and takes time.

That is so not the point.

She could be Cruella, or the worst Goldigger ever known on the planet that I would still respect HIS love for her and tell him to get married.

It's not about her it's about him

So called advice on how to lead your love life by people who never met any of the protagonists are more than dubious

[prakhonchai nick]

Whether bananas likes the advice that he has been given or not, a lot of people have spent time putting together replies, which they believe in.

Bananas could at least re-appear on the thread to thank those concerned for their time and trouble!

[NCFC]

The fact that the family is asking for half the sin sot upfront before any marriage is all Bananas needs to know about the girl. He's being scammed. At his age he has plenty of time to enjoy life and find a good girl.

[Grove]

The comments here are really shocking.

The OP is asking about sinsod price or quotation, nothing else;

He obviously has deep feelings for this girl, and has for several years.

You should respect that regardless of who/what she is, or what you think she is.

Trying to warn others about so called "mistakes" is useless and stupid.

Our mistakes make who we are.

They are needed in our personal development.

I don't agree. OP asked for opinions on Sin Sot , Well, he got the replies. If he love her soooooo much, then ignore it. If he listen, maybe, he'll save a lot of money and hartship.

I wish someone told me their storey and mabe I could have saved 8 Mil.

Good luck joung man.

[Kwasaki]

come back when your 50 boy.

Edited September 7, 2011 by Kwasaki

[Patronus]

Whether bananas likes the advice that he has been given or not, a lot of people have spent time putting together replies, which they believe in.

Bananas could at least re-appear on the thread to thank those concerned for their time and trouble!

Trolls don't usually come back and thank people for their efforts.

[MEGALITHIC]

I have asked about sid-sod with Boo and she believes her mum will ask in the range of 300,000 baht.

****i know this is absurdly expensive, but i also understand that I am foreign, there desire to show face etc etc.

Boo has told me that if we are only to get engaged at first then i have to pay half the sid-sod.

oh and she believes her Mum will keep it.......

any advice that anyone can provide on the traditional genuinity of the conditions of engangement implied to me would be greatly appreciated

Probably a troll but if not

THIS:

Go on mate, go for it. You've got nothing to lose except your hard earned cash and your sanity. Who knows, in a couple of years time you might be writing another "bar girl done me wrong" submission for Thai visa or the stickman website. We'll all be able to sit back with a satisfied glow and and say "there, told you so." Please, we do like to be entertained by this complete stupidity that seems to afflict the new and naive to this exotic land.

[makescents]

Very entertaining, thanks for posting.

[Johnniey]

Sin Sot is for show only - you are supposed to get it back.

If you don't get it back then you have been scammed or cheated. I'm seen countless farang over the years NOT get the sin sot back and amazingly NOT complain. Among the locals here, it's a big joke - the naive farang thinking that the sin sot is a gift.

As for 'face' - f*** face - why are so many of the farang that come here so obsessed about making the Thais feel good. The hundreds of farang I've seen that are 'people-pleasers' are eaten up by the money-hungry poor Thais.

The same guys complain about double standards when in fact they are themselves responsible for letting it happen.

What you allow, you condone.