Red-Shirt MP Jatuporn Claims Attempt To Overthrow Thai Govt

[Buchholz]

Jatuporn exposes secret movement to topple government

BANGKOK, 2 September 2011 (NNT) – Pheu Thai Party-listed MP Jatuporn Prompan has confirmed that there is an integrated underground movement trying to overthrow the government led by Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra.

Mr Jatuporn, also the Deputy Chairperson of the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) stressed that the attempt to topple the government is not nonsense, although the Pheu Thai-led government has come to power with the majority of seats in the house.

The MP explained that the movement is well integrated; similar to the past operations against the administrations of ex-Prime Ministers Police Lieutenant-Colonel Thaksin Shinawatra, Mr Samak Sundaravej, and Mr Somchai Wongsawat.

Mr Jatuporn disclosed that the movement will be clearer after 5 December 2011 with involvement of some politicians and extra-influential powers; therefore, he suggested that the government must perform well and push forward its policies as fast as possible to protect itself.

The UDD Deputy Chair noted that he has told UDD leaders at provincial and village levels to be ready and stay alert against any attempt to overthrow the government.

As for the appointment of UDD key figures as political position holders in the government, the MP said this will not shorten the lifespan of the government because each figure was finely selected based on experience and knowledge.

He said they could still participate in UDD activities outside office hours.

-- NNT 2011-09-02

[jayboy]

There is no need to overthrow this ship of fools, it will capsize on its own. Too many over-weighted Shinawatras and red shirts moving to the top while the ballast, the national Treasury, is depleted on unsustainable populist policies. Like the good ship Wasa, on the first sign of troubled waters, this lot will go to the bottom.

Best we can hope for is not be sucked down in the turbulence when it happens

sadly they have found a vast source of ballast. The Bank of Thailand reserves. Sovereign Wealth Fund anyone? Investment outside Thailand in the hands of a real pro! remember man city?

Now that really will give the Shinawatras something to play with. watch this one run as it will be their big play this time! there could be billions and billions of baht in this one, you may even see him back off trying to get his other restitution fines back once he is sure he can milk this particular cow! its so large, he may even cut in a few other high profile, outside/above the law types!

Actually I do remember the Manchester City deal.Whether Thaksin was a suitable person to take over the club is highly debatable: I can't believe the FA's "fit and proper" test was much of a stretch.However as a business deal for Thaksin it was fantastic, illustrating his ability to see opportunities others can't.If he was less - well, Thaksin like - I can't think of many people better suited to have a leading role in a sovereign wealth fund.Remember the much praised Korn (on whom I admit I have a slight man crush) has virtually no experience of private equity or doing deals at all - mainly advisory like all investment bankers.Now if Thaksin and Korn could combine somehow in a Dr Frankenstein experiment , that would be formidable - Korn's structured intellect and ethics and Thaksin's inspired wheeler dealing.Despite what the angry brigade say Thaksin didn't become rich through corruption (like most Thai politicians, generals and senior bureaucrats)but through legal business methods.OK once he was rich there begins to be an argument.

[rixalex]

Despite what the angry brigade say Thaksin didn't become rich through corruption (like most Thai politicians, generals and senior bureaucrats)but through legal business methods.OK once he was rich there begins to be an argument.

Disagree. Thaksin's rise to extraordinary wealth was no different to that of the others you mention - other of course from the fact that his was more meteoric.

Corruption is rarely ever where the riches come from, at least not directly. Corruption is the facilitator. The catalyst. In Thaksin's case it was specifically getting a monopoly contract signed on supplying computers. That deal was the launchpad for all that followed. Now, do you really think that deal was clean?

[jayboy]

Despite what the angry brigade say Thaksin didn't become rich through corruption (like most Thai politicians, generals and senior bureaucrats)but through legal business methods.OK once he was rich there begins to be an argument.

Disagree. Thaksin's rise to extraordinary wealth was no different to that of the others you mention - other of course from the fact that his was more meteoric.

Corruption is rarely ever where the riches come from, at least not directly. Corruption is the facilitator. The catalyst. In Thaksin's case it was specifically getting a monopoly contract signed on supplying computers. That deal was the launchpad for all that followed. Now, do you really think that deal was clean?

No you are just wrong here.Thaksin did start off flogging main frames to the police force where of course he had many contacts.Were palms greased? Probably given that this is Thailand.But he became rich primarily through initiative,excellent business instincts and determination.It's just ludicrous to suggest the source of his wealth can be compared to that of the corrupt slugs in the military and bureaucracy who never "do" anything to earn it at all except accept kickbacks.Nobody has suggested Thaksin has clean hands (name one business man of consequence in Thailand who has).

[rixalex]

Disagree. Thaksin's rise to extraordinary wealth was no different to that of the others you mention - other of course from the fact that his was more meteoric.

Corruption is rarely ever where the riches come from, at least not directly. Corruption is the facilitator. The catalyst. In Thaksin's case it was specifically getting a monopoly contract signed on supplying computers. That deal was the launchpad for all that followed. Now, do you really think that deal was clean?

No you are just wrong here.Thaksin did start off flogging main frames to the police force where of course he had many contacts.Were palms greased? Probably given that this is Thailand.But he became rich primarily through initiative,excellent business instincts and determination.It's just ludicrous to suggest the source of his wealth can be compared to that of the corrupt slugs in the military and bureaucracy who never "do" anything to earn it at all except accept kickbacks.Nobody has suggested Thaksin has clean hands (name one business man of consequence in Thailand who has).

I would agree that Thaksin's wealth required more effort in its acquisition than that of others, but personally i feel you somewhat overestimate the degree of business acumen that it took. Getting the monopoly established, and in the right field, was where he takes considerable credit. After that, it would have been hard for him to fail.

[jayboy]

I would agree that Thaksin's wealth required more effort in its acquisition than that of others, but personally i feel you somewhat overestimate the degree of business acumen that it took. Getting the monopoly established, and in the right field, was where he takes considerable credit. After that, it would have been hard for him to fail.

I think you put this rather well, even though we may have different opinions of his acumen.But I go back to the Man City deal, pooh poohed at the time quite widely but turned out to be a brilliant investment when Abu Dhabi interests brought him out for squillions.He seems to me to be a master of the art of "len game", outmanoevring his opponents.Looking back at the election - taking a different field - it's clear with the benefit of hindsight how he rang rings round the Dems.Does this say anything about his morality? Not at all.

Part of the problem in getting a measure of Thaksin is how those who hate him, often for different reasons to those they profess, throw every criticism at him they can think of - whether it's credible or not.With that kind of lack of discrimination, he may end up shrugging off charges which should be brought against him.

[Crushdepth]

One thing is for certain - he became a lot wealthier during his time as PM.

[rixalex]

I think you put this rather well, even though we may have different opinions of his acumen.But I go back to the Man City deal, pooh poohed at the time quite widely but turned out to be a brilliant investment when Abu Dhabi interests brought him out for squillions.

You might put all that down to good judgement. You might say that in all his wisdom, he had an inclining all along that those buyers would come along when they did. Personally i would say it came down a lot more to jolly good fortune.

[metisdead]

Just a reminder that posts using derogatory nicknames or intentional misspelling of people’s names will be deleted. If you don’t want your post to be deleted, spell people’s names correctly.

[DP25]

Despite what the angry brigade say Thaksin didn't become rich through corruption (like most Thai politicians, generals and senior bureaucrats)but through legal business methods.OK once he was rich there begins to be an argument.

First of all he was born rich. But he became mega rich by using government contacts to have his American business partner arrested and defrauded. Eventually "charges" he was arrested on were dropped but the statue of limitations had passed and all attempts to collect damages have been unsuccessful.

[jayboy]

I think you put this rather well, even though we may have different opinions of his acumen.But I go back to the Man City deal, pooh poohed at the time quite widely but turned out to be a brilliant investment when Abu Dhabi interests brought him out for squillions.

You might put all that down to good judgement. You might say that in all his wisdom, he had an inclining all along that those buyers would come along when they did. Personally i would say it came down a lot more to jolly good fortune.

Generally in business as in other areas, the more accomplished and diligent you are, the more luck you have.The whole point of a deal like Man City is having an eye on the exit:it's part of what makes a great investor.

Edited September 2, 2011 by jayboy

[rixalex]

I think you put this rather well, even though we may have different opinions of his acumen.But I go back to the Man City deal, pooh poohed at the time quite widely but turned out to be a brilliant investment when Abu Dhabi interests brought him out for squillions.

You might put all that down to good judgement. You might say that in all his wisdom, he had an inclining all along that those buyers would come along when they did. Personally i would say it came down a lot more to jolly good fortune.

Generally in business as in other areas, the more accomplished and diligent you are, the more luck you have.The whole point of a deal like Man City is having an eye on the exit:it's part of what makes a great investor.

Well, truth of the matter is, Thaksin was becoming squeezed into a very tight situation with his ownership of City - both with the club itself and with the country hosting him - and had the buyers not come along when they did, it could have all turned out quite differently.

And how often is it in business that people come along who are simply there for the fun of it, and really really don't care about profitability? They still don't i hasten to add. The whole thing is freakish, surely you would have to agree, and to suggest that it was all part of a great business masterplan, might just be a little far-fetched. He landed on his feet is all. Karma must have been napping.

[jayboy]

Well, truth of the matter is, Thaksin was becoming squeezed into a very tight situation with his ownership of City - both with the club itself and with the country hosting him - and had the buyers not come along when they did, it could have all turned out quite differently.

And how often is it in business that people come along who are simply there for the fun of it, and really really don't care about profitability? They still don't i hasten to add. The whole thing is freakish, surely you would have to agree, and to suggest that it was all part of a great business masterplan, might just be a little far-fetched. He landed on his feet is all. Karma must have been napping.

But the buyers did come along, and they weren't what is known as "dumb money".The fact that they paid the price they did, by definition, justifies Thaksin's judgement.It wasn't part of a great business masterplan on Thaksin's part but he undoubtedly had a reasonable idea of an undervalued asset and its upside potential.That's why he's a sqillionaire (and I'm not) and however much you dislike him it's slightly fatuous to look for explanations in karma and fortuitous good luck.

[rixalex]

But the buyers did come along, and they weren't what is known as "dumb money".The fact that they paid the price they did, by definition, justifies Thaksin's judgement.It wasn't part of a great business masterplan on Thaksin's part but he undoubtedly had a reasonable idea of an undervalued asset and its upside potential.That's why he's a sqillionaire (and I'm not) and however much you dislike him it's slightly fatuous to look for explanations in karma and fortuitous good luck.

I don't think it was so much to do with his appreciation and understanding of how it was undervalued - i don't really think looking at the market, it was - i think his judgement call on it had much more to do with what was going on back in Thailand, and how he might in some way stay in touch with the hearts and minds of the Premiership crazy Thai people. Keep his name in the headlines. Look like a big shot. Pretend he had a clue about football. Largely a political game, no different from all that nonsense about buying Liverpool when he was in power. Making money from it was an unexpected but pleasant surprise, i would imagine.

And by the way, i don't look for explanations in karma or good luck, i am simply aware of their existence.

[lannarebirth]

Despite what the angry brigade say Thaksin didn't become rich through corruption (like most Thai politicians, generals and senior bureaucrats)but through legal business methods.OK once he was rich there begins to be an argument.

Disagree. Thaksin's rise to extraordinary wealth was no different to that of the others you mention - other of course from the fact that his was more meteoric.

Corruption is rarely ever where the riches come from, at least not directly. Corruption is the facilitator. The catalyst. In Thaksin's case it was specifically getting a monopoly contract signed on supplying computers. That deal was the launchpad for all that followed. Now, do you really think that deal was clean?

No you are just wrong here.Thaksin did start off flogging main frames to the police force where of course he had many contacts.Were palms greased? Probably given that this is Thailand.But he became rich primarily through initiative,excellent business instincts and determination.It's just ludicrous to suggest the source of his wealth can be compared to that of the corrupt slugs in the military and bureaucracy who never "do" anything to earn it at all except accept kickbacks.Nobody has suggested Thaksin has clean hands (name one business man of consequence in Thailand who has).

C'mon that was an insider deal through and through, then comes Monson. He was a failure at evry ligitimate business he ever started,

[lannarebirth]

I think you put this rather well, even though we may have different opinions of his acumen.But I go back to the Man City deal, pooh poohed at the time quite widely but turned out to be a brilliant investment when Abu Dhabi interests brought him out for squillions.

You might put all that down to good judgement. You might say that in all his wisdom, he had an inclining all along that those buyers would come along when they did. Personally i would say it came down a lot more to jolly good fortune.

Generally in business as in other areas, the more accomplished and diligent you are, the more luck you have.The whole point of a deal like Man City is having an eye on the exit:it's part of what makes a great investor.

Well, truth of the matter is, Thaksin was becoming squeezed into a very tight situation with his ownership of City - both with the club itself and with the country hosting him - and had the buyers not come along when they did, it could have all turned out quite differently.

And how often is it in business that people come along who are simply there for the fun of it, and really really don't care about profitability? They still don't i hasten to add. The whole thing is freakish, surely you would have to agree, and to suggest that it was all part of a great business masterplan, might just be a little far-fetched. He landed on his feet is all. Karma must have been napping.

Both the purchase AND sale of Man City were giant money laundering schemes. The Brits arer very good at faciliatating money laundering, up to the point you make it so obvious and you embarass them.

Edited September 2, 2011 by lannarebirth

[gemini81]

"Jatuporn claimed that the group consists of politicians and those who have power above the law."

"The red-shirt MP said, however, that the movement has no links to the Monarchy and there will be more clarity about this effort in December."

Who is above the law?

It can't be Prem, because he has links to the Monarchy.

It can't be Sondhi, because he lost many cases in court so not above the law.

it can't be Sonti, because he is a coalition partner.

Is it Thaksin??? No links to the Monarchy and above the law?

Must be referring to himself, and all of his instances of MP immunity.

[Siam Simon]

Both the purchase AND sale of Man City were giant money laundering schemes.///cut

Eh? Care to elaborate on this?

[Buchholz]

Jatuporn exposes secret movement to topple government

Funny to read Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm disavows any knowledge of what Jatuporn is talking about.

[TAWP]

Jatuporn exposes secret movement to topple government

If something happens he will claim credit and say he was right - if nothing happens he will claim his and the red shirts work to counter it paid off.

It's called 'hedging his bets'. Or 'making stuff up to gain creds with your own'.

[Buchholz]

Jatuporn exposes secret movement to topple government

If something happens he will claim credit and say he was right - if nothing happens he will claim his and the red shirts work to counter it paid off.

It's called 'hedging his bets'. Or 'making stuff up to gain creds with your own'.

Interesting that he's going off on this tangent by himself, without informing the higher-ups within his Pheu Thai Party.

btw,

for those interested in pursuing the off-topic Manchester City issue might wish to further their discussion here in the appropriate thread:

[TAWP]

And honestly, I hope there isn't a coup in planning, neither by the forces of power or some fringe-groups.

It is so much better to keep the pressure up and let the Reds strike themselves out. Implement their policies of failure. Maybe some financial disaster for a few years to teach everyone a lesson what happens when you try to eat without paying.

Well, one can dream...

[jayboy]

But the buyers did come along, and they weren't what is known as "dumb money".The fact that they paid the price they did, by definition, justifies Thaksin's judgement.It wasn't part of a great business masterplan on Thaksin's part but he undoubtedly had a reasonable idea of an undervalued asset and its upside potential.That's why he's a sqillionaire (and I'm not) and however much you dislike him it's slightly fatuous to look for explanations in karma and fortuitous good luck.

I don't think it was so much to do with his appreciation and understanding of how it was undervalued - i don't really think looking at the market, it was - i think his judgement call on it had much more to do with what was going on back in Thailand, and how he might in some way stay in touch with the hearts and minds of the Premiership crazy Thai people. Keep his name in the headlines. Look like a big shot. Pretend he had a clue about football. Largely a political game, no different from all that nonsense about buying Liverpool when he was in power. Making money from it was an unexpected but pleasant surprise, i would imagine.

And by the way, i don't look for explanations in karma or good luck, i am simply aware of their existence.

The factors you mention no doubt played some part in his decision.However you dislike the man so much that your judgement is faulty and unconvincing, specifically underestimating his commercial acumen.I don't like him much either but don't share the pathological hatred that's so common here.And it's a fundamental rule of investing on the part of men like Thaksin that there should be a healthy return corresponding with the risk reward ratio.The other perceived benefits (making a splash with football loving Thais) were incidental.It's pointless continuing this discussion with an unbending Thaksinophobe, and you are one of the sane ones.Imagine what it's like having a debate with one of the deranged!

And by the way good luck and karma don't exist except in the sense that men make their own.

[whybother]

And honestly, I hope there isn't a coup in planning, neither by the forces of power or some fringe-groups.

It is so much better to keep the pressure up and let the Reds strike themselves out. Implement their policies of failure. Maybe some financial disaster for a few years to teach everyone a lesson what happens when you try to eat without paying.

Well, one can dream...

Agree with 100% there. They have plenty of rope to hang themselves.

[rixalex]

The factors you mention no doubt played some part in his decision.However you dislike the man so much that your judgement is faulty and unconvincing, specifically underestimating his commercial acumen.I don't like him much either but don't share the pathological hatred that's so common here.And it's a fundamental rule of investing on the part of men like Thaksin that there should be a healthy return corresponding with the risk reward ratio.The other perceived benefits (making a splash with football loving Thais) were incidental.It's pointless continuing this discussion with an unbending Thaksinophobe, and you are one of the sane ones.Imagine what it's like having a debate with one of the deranged!

And by the way good luck and karma don't exist except in the sense that men make their own.

Well, regarding the well-founded belief that hatred queers one's outlook, i accept i may at times be guilty of that; human nature i think. I wonder though if you consider yourself above falling into that particular trap? I ask because a number of your posts exhibit to my mind exactly the same level of distaste, hatred, or whatever you wish to call it, as those you like to call Thaksinophobes... or is it military cheerleaders? Or perhaps yellow skirts? I forget. Keeping up with current juvenile labelling can be hard at times. I appreciate though your need to put people in neat little boxes.

Anyway, getting back to your hatred, do you perhaps attempt to deny its existence? Or do you consider yourself able, where other lesser beings are not , to rise above such emotions and successfully retain a semblance of balance to your opinion?

As for good luck and karma, i agree that to a large degree, we make our own. There are times however when things happen quite beyond and outside our realm of control.

Edited September 3, 2011 by rixalex

[jayboy]

Well, regarding the well-founded belief that hatred queers one's outlook, i accept i may at times be guilty of that; human nature i think. I wonder though if you consider yourself above falling into that particular trap? I ask because a number of your posts exhibit to my mind exactly the same level of distaste, hatred, or whatever you wish to call it, as those you like to call Thaksinophobes... or is it military cheerleaders? Or perhaps yellow skirts? I forget. Keeping up with current juvenile labelling can be hard at times. I appreciate though your need to put people in neat little boxes.

Anyway, getting back to your hatred, do you perhaps attempt to deny its existence? Or do you consider yourself able, where other lesser beings are not , to rise above such emotions and successfully retain a semblance of balance to your opinion?

As for good luck and karma, i agree that to a large degree, we make our own. There are times however when things happen quite beyond and outside our realm of control.

Distaste and hatred are two quite different things.I do try and remain reasonably detached, and "not give way to hating" to quote Kipling.But of course I am unreasonable sometimes, as little as possible I hope

I do have a strong distaste for those who have a bullying dogmatic approach, who never admit they could be wrong or that the opposing opinion might have some truth in it.

As to this forum I don't do "hate".To do so would be absurd and deranged in an anonymous discussion.

[hammered]

Robert Amsterdam posted a piece on NM. Obviosuly all the usual caveats as he employed as a player in the power struggle, but it is worth reading if you want to understand the analysis of how the Thaksin/PTP/red side view things and understand why they are doing what they do. Jatuporn isnt so much out of touch with the rest of PTP. He is on an extreme of what is said in public. The PTP expect to be brought down by extra-parliamentary forces at some point. Anyone following the news especially the Thai versions is aware of this 6-24 months are the mentioned time frames. Obviously either Jatuporn expects it earlier or is keeping the reds on their toes and not letting them relax and lose sight of the ball now they are in power. Of course if the PTP can get the bureaucracy to function for them as government then things may be different and they may reassess what they think.

Hopefully for all of us of course nobody will be silly enough to try and bring the government down through non-normal parliamentary methods as it is sure to be chaotic if an attempt is made.

Hopefully too the Democrats will use the time of this parliament to rebuild themselves as a force for democarcy and position away from linkage to old managed demcoracy systems, so that the next election can see a more competetive race

[scorecard]

Robert Amsterdam posted a piece on NM. Obviosuly all the usual caveats as he employed as a player in the power struggle, but it is worth reading if you want to understand the analysis of how the Thaksin/PTP/red side view things and understand why they are doing what they do. Jatuporn isnt so much out of touch with the rest of PTP. He is on an extreme of what is said in public. The PTP expect to be brought down by extra-parliamentary forces at some point. Anyone following the news especially the Thai versions is aware of this 6-24 months are the mentioned time frames. Obviously either Jatuporn expects it earlier or is keeping the reds on their toes and not letting them relax and lose sight of the ball now they are in power. Of course if the PTP can get the bureaucracy to function for them as government then things may be different and they may reassess what they think.

Hopefully for all of us of course nobody will be silly enough to try and bring the government down through non-normal parliamentary methods as it is sure to be chaotic if an attempt is made.

Hopefully too the Democrats will use the time of this parliament to rebuild themselves as a force for democarcy and position away from linkage to old managed demcoracy systems, so that the next election can see a more competetive race

Quote from hammered:

"Hopefully for all of us of course nobody will be silly enough to try and bring the government down through non-normal parliamentary methods as it is sure to be chaotic if an attempt is made.

Hopefully too the Democrats will use the time of this parliament to rebuild themselves as a force for democarcy and position away from linkage to old managed demcoracy systems, so that the next election can see a more competetive race"

Certainly agree, especially the second paragraph. Dems need to really get their act together, get a lot more highly credible clean sincere people up front and build some balanced policies to gain the popular vote with workable items which have real value and at the same time have policies to build Thailand properly.

I believe abhisit and korn can be the leaders of this but they need to ditch suthep and quite a few more old timers.

[scorecard]

And honestly, I hope there isn't a coup in planning, neither by the forces of power or some fringe-groups.

It is so much better to keep the pressure up and let the Reds strike themselves out. Implement their policies of failure. Maybe some financial disaster for a few years to teach everyone a lesson what happens when you try to eat without paying.

Well, one can dream...

Agree with 100% there. They have plenty of rope to hang themselves.

Also agree 100%.

[rixalex]

Distaste and hatred are two quite different things.I do try and remain reasonably detached, and "not give way to hating" to quote Kipling.But of course I am unreasonable sometimes, as little as possible I hope

I do have a strong distaste for those who have a bullying dogmatic approach, who never admit they could be wrong or that the opposing opinion might have some truth in it.

As to this forum I don't do "hate".To do so would be absurd and deranged in an anonymous discussion.

I believe the gist of what you are saying is that what in ourselves we recognise as being well-reasoned distaste, we may well recognise in others as being irrational hate.

All depends on where you are standing, does it not?