Are Cia Prisoner Being Kept In Los?

[mouse]

Terror suspects held in secret CIA prisons

GETHIN CHAMBERLAIN

CHIEF NEWS CORRESPONDENT

news.scotman.com

SENIOR al-Qaeda members are being held in top-secret CIA- operated "black site" prisons across the world, it has emerged.

According to anonymous CIA sources quoted by the Washington Post, the agency has been transporting the captives to secret facilities in a number of countries for interrogation.

The covert prisons - of which up to eight have been used - are referred to as "black sites" in classified United States documents and virtually nothing is known about who the detainees are, how they are interrogated or about decisions on how long they will be held.

Interrogators at the black sites are permitted to use the CIA's approved "Enhanced Interrogation Techniques". They include tactics such as "waterboarding" in which a prisoner is made to believe he or she is drowning.

The covert global prison system was reportedly set up after the attacks on the United States on 11 September, 2001. "Several democracies in Eastern Europe" as well as Thailand and Afghanistan and a small centre at the Guantanamo Bay prison in Cuba were involved.

The CIA has not acknowledged the existence of the secret network and White House spokesman Scott McClellan would neither confirm nor deny the story. "I'm not going to get into specific intelligence activities. I will say that the president's most important responsibility is to protect the American people," he said.

Alberto Gonzales, the US attorney-general, was also evasive when asked about the report. "I'm not going to confirm or deny ... the existence of this programme. We normally do not talk about intelligence activities," he said.

"What I can say ... is the president has charged the administration to be doing what we can to protect America against another domestic attack and to protect our allies and those who are working with America but to do so in a way that is consistent with our legal obligations both domestically and internationally."

Russia and Bulgaria immediately denied that such a prison was located on their territory and Thailand also denied it was a host. But Amnesty International suggested that a recent report in which Yemeni detainees claimed to have been held by the US in a secret location four hours flying time from Jordan was compatible with the allegations.

Kate Allen, Amnesty's UK director, said: "We've long been concerned that the US could be running a totally secret network of 'war on terror' prisons and these fresh claims need to be urgently investigated.

"No country in Europe or elsewhere should be colluding in the illegal detention of prisoners and any state involved in this should be held partly responsible for human rights abuses occurring in these facilities."

The Bush administration was already facing intense criticism over its treatment of prisoners in its declared war on terrorism since the 2001 attacks.

Inmate abuse at Baghdad's Abu Ghraib prison was strongly condemned in the Muslim world and among US allies, while many have called for more openness about those being held at Guantanamo Bay.

On Tuesday, Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, spurned a request by UN human rights investigators and denied them the opportunity to meet detainees at Guantanamo Bay.

The newspaper, which said its report was based on information from US and foreign officials familiar with the arrangement, said the existence and locations of the prisons were known only to a handful of officials in the US and, usually, only to the president and a few top intelligence officers in each host country.

It reported that about 30 major terrorism suspects had been held at black sites while more than 70 other detainees, considered less important, were delivered to foreign intelligence services under a process known as "rendition".

The system is said to depend on the co-operation of foreign intelligence services, and on keeping even basic information about the system secret from the public, foreign officials and nearly all members of Congress charged with overseeing the CIA's covert actions.

The CIA is already known to use Glasgow and Prestwick airports to stop off en route to other destinations when transporting prisoners who have been snatched under its programme of "extraordinary rendition". The US is understood to use the programme to transport prisoners to countries which are prepared to use unconventional methods, including torture, to extract information.

US planes have landed at a number of UK airports, including Heathrow and Gatwick, but Prestwick - with 75 recorded flights - and Glasgow - with 74 - are among the most popular stopping-off points.

Other airports around the world are known to be used for rendition.

The top 30 al-Qaeda prisoners held at the black sites are isolated from the outside world, have no recognised legal rights and no-one outside the CIA is allowed to talk to or see them, the sources said.

They added that the CIA used such detention centres abroad because in the US it is illegal to hold prisoners in such isolation.

Senior US officials were reported to have requested that the names of the East European countries be withheld because disclosure could disrupt counter-terrorism efforts or make the host countries targets for retaliation.

But there is understood to be a debate inside the agency about the effectiveness of the scheme.

[Judge]

As far as I'm concerned, proven terrorists and those that control them should be tortured for information that will save innocent lives.

They are making a tough world even worse.

Fight fire with fire!

[Patex]

...proven terrorists...

?????

[TRIPxCORE]

What is surprising to me is how people still act aghast when they learn of the all the things the C.I.A is doing. What do you think this organization is all about?

[h90]

Only an independend court can decide if someone is a terrorist or not, not a gouverment. These guys did not see any court. So what about I say you are a terrorist and torture you? that is what they do.

How do you explain to an innocent Iraq guy, why half of his family died by US bombs and his brother (who isn't a terrorist) get tortured? This guy may think the USA are the terrorists and Al Kaida is fighting for freedom.

If you use the same methodes as terrorists, what makes you any better than them?

As far as I'm concerned, proven terrorists and those that control them should be tortured for information that will save innocent lives.

They are making a tough world even worse.

Fight fire with fire! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Judge]

How do you explain to an innocent Iraq guy, why half of his family died by US bombs and his brother (who isn't a terrorist) get tortured? This guy may think the USA are the terrorists and Al Kaida is fighting for freedom.

If you use the same methodes as terrorists, what makes you any better than them?

I said nothing about innocent Iraqi guys. I said proven terrorists.

What makes us better than them is that we are not targeting innocent men, women and children.

We are trying stop the criminal scum that murder them in cold blood.

[bkkmadness]

What is surprising to me is how people still act aghast when they learn of the all the things the C.I.A is doing.  What do you think this organization is all about?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought the CIA were nice boys?

[WhiteShiva]

How do you explain to an innocent Iraq guy, why half of his family died by US bombs and his brother (who isn't a terrorist) get tortured? This guy may think the USA are the terrorists and Al Kaida is fighting for freedom.

If you use the same methodes as terrorists, what makes you any better than them?

I said nothing about innocent Iraqi guys. I said proven terrorists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And just who shall decide what constitutes "proof"? The torturers?

What makes us better than them is that we are not targeting innocent men, women and children.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Although innocent men, women and children sometimes do get hurt or killed when "you" go about "your" business, right.....?

We are trying stop the criminal scum that murder them in cold blood. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which may be exactly the same argument the other side is using to justify their actions.....

[cdnvic]

This thread has already run and the prison in question is no longer open.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=49508

cv

[Judge]

How do you explain to an innocent Iraq guy, why half of his family died by US bombs and his brother (who isn't a terrorist) get tortured? This guy may think the USA are the terrorists and Al Kaida is fighting for freedom.

If you use the same methodes as terrorists, what makes you any better than them?

I said nothing about innocent Iraqi guys. I said proven terrorists.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And just who shall decide what constitutes "proof"? The torturers?

What makes us better than them is that we are not targeting innocent men, women and children.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Although innocent men, women and children sometimes do get hurt or killed when "you" go about "your" business, right.....?

We are trying stop the criminal scum that murder them in cold blood. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which may be exactly the same argument the other side is using to justify their actions.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Adolf Hitler had lots of self-serving justifications for slaughtering innocents and for genocide too.

I'm sure that if you types were around you would have been trotting those out back then as well.

So clever.

[meadish_sweetball]

Any more name calling and holidays will be awarded. We are not getting into the 'who are the terrorists' discussion again.

[WhiteShiva]

Adolf Hitler had lots of self-serving justifications for slaughtering innocents and for genocide too.

I'm sure that if you types were around you would have been trotting those out back then as well.

So clever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I doubt it - I have a healthy mistrust of all types of politicians, and I do not take their propaganda at face value. However, I do try to understand what drives people on both sides of a conflict, rather than labelling one side maniaces and glorifying the other side no matter what they do.

The latter is the sign of fanatics. I see no point in discussing with fanatics.

But I have made an exception in your case.

[OZONE]

As far as I'm concerned, proven terrorists and those that control them should be tortured for information that will save innocent lives.

They are making a tough world even worse.

Fight fire with fire! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cheers to you.

Its like the BULLY in school, He'll keep picking on you until you decide to get up and kick his arse, than and only than, He'll show a bit more respect for you

[Judge]

However, I do try to understand what drives people on both sides of a conflict ... no matter what they do.

Yeah, we know!

[WhiteShiva]

However, I do try to understand what drives people on both sides of a conflict ... no matter what they do.

Yeah, we know!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I see you have lost the argument even before it started. First you labelled me a nazi (a classic tactic when running out of arguments) and now you are quoting me after having edited my post. Pretty lame, actually.

I guess I should have stuck to my original tactic, as you have clearly shown us all the futility of getting into arguments with fanatics.

And for that I thank you.

[Wolfie]

Ok this is your last warning on the subject Ladies and Gentlemen, Keep this discussion civil, cease the name calling (both direct and implied) or this thread gets closed.

Thanks for your understanding

/Moderator Team

[gbt71fa]

Only an independend court can decide if someone is a terrorist or not, not a gouverment. These guys did not see any court. So what about I say you are a terrorist and torture you? that is what they do.

How do you explain to an innocent Iraq guy, why half of his family died by US bombs and his brother (who isn't a terrorist) get tortured? This guy may think the USA are the terrorists and Al Kaida is fighting for freedom.

If you use the same methodes as terrorists, what makes you any better than them?

As far as I'm concerned, proven terrorists and those that control them should be tortured for information that will save innocent lives.

They are making a tough world even worse.

Fight fire with fire!  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is people like you that the terrorist hope keep talking for them. Those 'innocent' famalies are not so innocent when you see weapons stacked in their house or explosives hidden in their clothing. This is a war, if you don't believe it, then stay in your fantasy world.

[Eric Davis]

Is this the NEWS Section?

[ilyushin]

"rendition"

Rendition is the practice of clandestine capture and extradition of individual suspects outside the country in which they were caught. It is a legal term, used euphemistically, by the United States by the Central Intelligence Agency and the United States Government to publicly discuss these activities. Suspects are moved to third countries for the purposes of detention and interrogation.

Do you think the CIA is the only organization or government agency doing this?

Most of the people on this forum wouldn't understand the need for this practice, but when you see the real need it would probably be highly appreciated.

They aren't just plucking just anybody off the streets and taking them away to string them up. I am very sure Thailand is clear and had temp holding centres at most.

[h90]

Only an independend court can decide if someone is a terrorist or not, not a gouverment. These guys did not see any court. So what about I say you are a terrorist and torture you? that is what they do.

How do you explain to an innocent Iraq guy, why half of his family died by US bombs and his brother (who isn't a terrorist) get tortured? This guy may think the USA are the terrorists and Al Kaida is fighting for freedom.

If you use the same methodes as terrorists, what makes you any better than them?

As far as I'm concerned, proven terrorists and those that control them should be tortured for information that will save innocent lives.

They are making a tough world even worse.

Fight fire with fire! 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is people like you that the terrorist hope keep talking for them. Those 'innocent' famalies are not so innocent when you see weapons stacked in their house or explosives hidden in their clothing. This is a war, if you don't believe it, then stay in your fantasy world.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So what is your conclusion? Kill them all because they might have some weapons/explosives, and if they didn't have it, you just call them collateral damage, which happens on the way to make the world more free?? You think that's the way to go?

[h90]

Adolf Hitler had lots of self-serving justifications for slaughtering innocents and for genocide too.

I'm sure that if you types were around you would have been trotting those out back then as well.

So clever.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes thats exactly the point, watch old "Wochenschau" or read old German newspaper, most people really thought they defense Germany against an enemy. But in fact they attacked other countries.

Compare that: USA defended itself against Iraq, which was not a hub of terrorism, which had no chemical, biological or nuclear weapons and was no danger at all.

But it respected the rights for other religion and women.

No question Saddam was not a lovely guy, one of the most critisized points was that he put people in jail without seeing a court and torture them.

Just think about that....

[unforgiven]

Only an independend court can decide if someone is a terrorist or not, not a gouverment. These guys did not see any court. So what about I say you are a terrorist and torture you? that is what they do.

Very good point,there's little accountabiliy at source, but what I can tell you about their actions(and no I'm not a spook) from my limited associations with the company, it's mistakes: noriaga,pinoccette etc in the past,have led to senate reforms that have been able not only to disolve such controversial operations as wet works,but also have limited interigation guidelines.Typically mind altering drugs and cross cultureal psychological sinario are use.Physical torture...................very seldom

[mijan24]

"rendition"

Rendition is the practice of clandestine capture and extradition of individual suspects outside the country in which they were caught. It is a legal term, used euphemistically, by the United States by the Central Intelligence Agency and the United States Government to publicly discuss these activities. Suspects are moved to third countries for the purposes of detention and interrogation. 

Do you think the CIA is the only organization or government agency doing this?

Most of the people on this forum wouldn't understand the need for this practice, but when you see the real need it would probably be highly appreciated.

They aren't just plucking just anybody off the streets and taking them away to string them up. I am very sure Thailand is clear and had temp holding centres at most.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Correct me if I am wrong but it took until post 19 for someone to address the OP.

Replying to Are Cia Prisoner Being Kept In Los?

The little bit of information that we the everyday person actually knows about this is not worth arguing about - debate yes but argue no.

Edited November 3, 2005 by mijan24

[Nignoy]

"rendition"

Rendition is the practice of clandestine capture and extradition of individual suspects outside the country in which they were caught. It is a legal term, used euphemistically, by the United States by the Central Intelligence Agency and the United States Government to publicly discuss these activities. Suspects are moved to third countries for the purposes of detention and interrogation. 

Do you think the CIA is the only organization or government agency doing this?

Most of the people on this forum wouldn't understand the need for this practice, but when you see the real need it would probably be highly appreciated.

They aren't just plucking just anybody off the streets and taking them away to string them up. I am very sure Thailand is clear and had temp holding centres at most.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Correct me if I am wrong but it took until post 19 for someone to address the OP.

Replying to Are Cia Prisoner Being Kept In Los?

The little bit of information that we the everyday person actually knows about this is not worth arguing about - debate yes but argue no.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So what if "Suspected " terrorists are held in Los !! or in any other country for that matter, all of the major powers pull the same sort of tricks, joe public only finds out after the fact, over the ages an eye for an eye has been changed to, do unto others as they would do to you, Only Do it First!! Sadly the US has had a taste of terrorism on its own soil, after activelly supporting terrorism and sedition in many other countries, now because they have felt the blast and buried their dead , they feel it neccessary to stamp out terrorism, for so many years the US has played fast and loose with weaker countries .Now sadly they are paying as simple people with fanatical leaders rise up against them and show them the meaning of fear.lest we forget .Nignoy

[cdnvic]

This is getting stupid again.

[GuestHouse]

These reports are also carried in the Washington Post and the International Herald Tribune.

Thailand has denied they are detaining people on behalf of the US, but then they denied that they allowed the US to use Thailand airbases to attack Afganistan.

I recall reading the denials and seeing streams of US bombers leaving from Uta Phow.

[h90]

yes Austria did not allow to let them fly over Austria and I saw them myself.

After a while Austria they official complained that USA broke international laws and fly over Austria.....

I would like to know what would happen if Cuba just fly over USA without permit, they would shoot them down. Austria did complain (anyway our army can not shoot anything faster than a pigeon.

These reports are also carried in the Washington Post and the International Herald Tribune.

Thailand has denied they are detaining people on behalf of the US, but then they denied that they allowed the US to use Thailand airbases to attack Afganistan.

I recall reading the denials and seeing streams of US bombers leaving from Uta Phow.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[baht&sold]

Are Cia Prisoner Being Kept In Los?

YES! Please, someone, contact my embassy, hellllp meeee!!!!

This is getting stupid again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Eeyup

[gbt71fa]

Only an independend court can decide if someone is a terrorist or not, not a gouverment. These guys did not see any court. So what about I say you are a terrorist and torture you? that is what they do.

How do you explain to an innocent Iraq guy, why half of his family died by US bombs and his brother (who isn't a terrorist) get tortured? This guy may think the USA are the terrorists and Al Kaida is fighting for freedom.

If you use the same methodes as terrorists, what makes you any better than them?

As far as I'm concerned, proven terrorists and those that control them should be tortured for information that will save innocent lives.

They are making a tough world even worse.

Fight fire with fire!  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is people like you that the terrorist hope keep talking for them. Those 'innocent' famalies are not so innocent when you see weapons stacked in their house or explosives hidden in their clothing. This is a war, if you don't believe it, then stay in your fantasy world.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So what is your conclusion? Kill them all because they might have some weapons/explosives, and if they didn't have it, you just call them collateral damage, which happens on the way to make the world more free?? You think that's the way to go?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

a family who lets thier house be used for weapons cache or safe houses? Destroy the houses. our boys are dying over here to limit collateral dammage-taking fire from buildings and giveing them every chance to give up-would your country do that? would you do that? do you know what it is like to be shot at and you have wait for a legal team to give you permission to fire and and an AG team first try to talk them to come out just in case there are innocent citizens? this is a war because they believe it is a war. what is happening in the south of Thailand is just a start because they will come North. To them, there is no collateral damage-just targets. Have you ever seen innocents ripped apart by somebody detonating themselves in the name of their God? I have and it is not pretty. I can't count the times I locked and loaded on suspects only to give them every benifit of the doubt. Somebody has to search them and only takes a quick push to set off a bomb-jacket. Are you to be the one to search them, somehow I doubt it. It will be left up to soldiers to do the dirty work so you can sit safely in your living room and complain about it. I hope that you are never a victim. To many of my comrades have the scars to make sure you are safe now.

[gbt71fa]

"rendition"

Rendition is the practice of clandestine capture and extradition of individual suspects outside the country in which they were caught. It is a legal term, used euphemistically, by the United States by the Central Intelligence Agency and the United States Government to publicly discuss these activities. Suspects are moved to third countries for the purposes of detention and interrogation. 

Do you think the CIA is the only organization or government agency doing this?

Most of the people on this forum wouldn't understand the need for this practice, but when you see the real need it would probably be highly appreciated.

They aren't just plucking just anybody off the streets and taking them away to string them up. I am very sure Thailand is clear and had temp holding centres at most.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Correct me if I am wrong but it took until post 19 for someone to address the OP.

Replying to Are Cia Prisoner Being Kept In Los?

The little bit of information that we the everyday person actually knows about this is not worth arguing about - debate yes but argue no.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So what if "Suspected " terrorists are held in Los !! or in any other country for that matter, all of the major powers pull the same sort of tricks, joe public only finds out after the fact, over the ages an eye for an eye has been changed to, do unto others as they would do to you, Only Do it First!! Sadly the US has had a taste of terrorism on its own soil, after activelly supporting terrorism and sedition in many other countries, now because they have felt the blast and buried their dead , they feel it neccessary to stamp out terrorism, for so many years the US has played fast and loose with weaker countries .Now sadly they are paying as simple people with fanatical leaders rise up against them and show them the meaning of fear.lest we forget .Nignoy

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, you need to think for yourself and stop reading liberal factoids. The U.S. has had to save the world, Europe, Asia too many times. WW I, WW II-how many times have had to interven on other countries behalf-the slaughter in the Balkans. Dictators and mass murderers are allowed to thrive because people with your attitude let them fester and grow strong with your apathy. What terrorism have we supported? We have made mistakes but we have made the difference in many a peaceful settlements as well. Europe sits in its own apathetic morass with only England proving her mettle time and time again. If it wasn't for the U.S., England, the Aussies the Japanese would have raped Thailand of everything. Where would the world be if it wasn't for the 'evil, bad' U.S. You may wave your flag of indifference and hate the U.S. because it isn't afraid to use its power. How many times has the U.S. been attacked since 9/11...ZERO, while stopping around 25 major plots to do more damage. I hope you and your never country are never targeted. Thailand is starting to realize the dangers and maybe, one day, you will to.