Are You A Compulsive Cheater?

[meemiathai]

Someone go get him!!!

He's running all over the place!!!

Must be WS.

[meemiathai]

Oops

it seems someone had him executed already

[Guest endure]

Yes, but similarly, do not confuse desire to kill with desire to ..er..engage in intercourse. As a rational being you are fully aware of the possible consequences of murder and you know them to be significantly worse than the possible consequences of intercourse with someone not your official partner.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That depends on the local duck population

[aughie]

Meemiathai,  can you explain that further? It's coming off like mumbo jumbo. Free free set them free.

I am saying that if you truly love someone, don't you want to see that someone being able to do whatever he/she wants to do?

I choose something not so casual.

Thanks for the reply.

[Mighty Mouse]

I got chatting to a male my friends had brought along on purpose and before you know it we ended up kissing but I didn't let it go any further.

.........but, and a very big BUT, did your tongue tickle his tonsils?

[wolfman jack]

huh teenager ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, I'm seventeen I believe that makes me a teenager.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Technically she will still be a teenager at 19 and probably won't start losing her looks until she is 20.

[The Dude]

huh teenager ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, I'm seventeen I believe that makes me a teenager.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Technically she will still be a teenager at 19 and probably won't start losing her looks until she is 20.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ice will get better looking with age, much better. Dig that with a shovel

[Ice Maiden]

I got chatting to a male my friends had brought along on purpose and before you know it we ended up kissing but I didn't let it go any further.

.........but, and a very big BUT, did your tongue tickle his tonsils?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry I don't kiss and tell

[thaibebop]

thaibebop,

I think you make this matter to easy.

I know (not believe), bad thoughts are not only affecting the thinker. The efford the thinker has to make to hide or compensate his unhonest thoughts are not invisible for those who sympathize with/love him.

Patex

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It all depends on the thinker. Body language, facial exprssions, word choice, if a person is strong enough and capable enough loved ones know nothing. I know, not believe.

[thaibebop]

Meemiathai,  can you explain that further? It's coming off like mumbo jumbo. Free free set them free.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am saying that if you truly love someone, don't you want to see that someone being able to do whatever he/she wants to do?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Reminds me of the "story of O"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

????????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

story of O is a french novel by Pauline Reage and basically is about female submission whereby O, the girl in question opens herself to all sorts of horizontal exercise in the name of true love.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's one sick book. I could bearly finish it.

[siamesekitty]

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." I believe in karma...

[meom]

Meemiathai,  can you explain that further? It's coming off like mumbo jumbo. Free free set them free.

I am saying that if you truly love someone, don't you want to see that someone being able to do whatever he/she wants to do?

Reminds me of the "story of O"

????????

story of O is a french novel by Pauline Reage and basically is about female submission whereby O, the girl in question opens herself to all sorts of horizontal exercise in the name of true love.

That's one sick book. I could bearly finish it.

SM is not my cup of tea either but if you read beyond the violence and gory details it also shows how much a woman in this case sacrifices for love.

[paulfr]

A man's true nature is not to be monogamous.  It is a man's nature to spread his seed into anything he can.  That's just the way it is and our bodies will never change.  Over time, people have placed these rules of monogamy on ourselves to show loyalty to our partners.  It never started out this way but it has become this way. 

I do believe a person should remain loyal to one he/she loves or cares about.  But at the same time, it is also possible for one to love or care deeply about more than one person at a time too.  Lots of grey area in this matter IMO.

Have I ever cheated?  No.  Have I come close before?  Yes!  I don't feel bad about it because the person was someone I care about and have real feelings for.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where did you find this wonderful revelation about man's true nature?

This is pretty much an accepted fact among evolutionary biologists.

Read some of Richard Dawkins .... like his "Selfish Gene".

Google for more of his books.

Very interesting reading although he does have his detractors as he has taken these ideas further than many before him.

[Dustoff]

I am saying that if you truly love someone, don't you want to see that someone being able to do whatever he/she wants to do?

Right on but that is a question that most people in a relationship are unable to deal with. Marriage and even bf/gf relationships are usually about contracts, spoken and unspoken, and if someone does not submit to the insecurities of the other, they are branded a 'cheater'. And it is so common that even if you are in a relationship with no promise of monogamy, many others will still classify you as a cheater.

The "free, free set them free" type comments are indicative of people's inability to even conceive of a relationship so loving that each person not only has total freedom but that freedom (in whatever sense) is encouraged. I adore my wife who is also the best friend I have ever had and I will joyously spend the rest of my life with her if she will have me. She, fortunately, feels the same but there is no 'ownership' in this relationship.

I loved the "excuses" thread! What nonsense and how sad.. When one of us goes somewhere, for an hour or a week, we say, "have a great time" and never ask stupid or selfish questions upon their return. If I wish to enjoy a sensual encounter with someone, I am free to do so as is she.

Most people do not understand that jealosy has nothing whatsoever to do with love - it is pure selfishness.

[kat]

The Dude commends the dude who came up with the idea for this thread. The Dude thinks that this is very relevant to Thailand. What needs to be added here is "how many partners cheat either on a regular basis on you, or have cheated, or think about and attempt to cheat on you on a continuing basis". You know how it is over here; leave your lady alone for a while (days, weeks, months) and you got problems, huge problems. She don't like to be alone. This is a hard fact that The Dude does not dig. Be wary of it, very wary. The Dude thinks it's embedded in the culture somewhere and that there are several reasons for it. The Dude vows to lock up all of his shovels on this issue because it is most undiggable. Can you dig?

Dude, I'm intrigued. I'm digging this post, and wish you would dig a bit more.

A man's true nature is not to be monogamous.  It is a man's nature to spread his seed into anything he can..... 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So as long as you use a condom it's technically not cheating

But if you are honest with your partner from the start about your philandering ways, surely this is no longer 'cheating'?

If no lies are involved, is it not possible to love the girl whilst still being open to other sexual liasons?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I understand what you and Dustoff are saying above, but I find this is a lot harder to sustain in reality. I am only that non-possessive about someone when I don't really care if they cheat or not, and if that is the case, why would I be in a relationship with them? I would be too susceptible to the attention of others who were capable of focusing on me a lot better. Because, I think that's what it comes down to - focusing. And to be honest with you, it's my personal belief that this ability separates the men from the boys.

In a relationship, I think it's safe to say that a woman needs to feel emotionally secure, which affects everything, including her sexuality towards you. If I'm going to end up constantly distracted by someone's distractions, I'd much rather cut them loose and wander around myself, or find someone who can focus. I just can't be bothered with the kind of headaches that come from a partner with a roving eye or constantly shifting intentions What a turnoff.

Edited January 25, 2006 by kat

[Ajarn_Jonesy]

All you guys and gals who classify yourselves as loyal, loving, non-cheaters, please leave the forum and go and polish your halo's. They're looking a little tarnished.

Let me ask you this: You are sitting in a crowded room/bar with your partner by your side. You look across at a most attractive person on the other side of the room/bar.

Do you mentally undress that person? Do you imagine yourself in bed with that person and making U turns under the sheets? Do you find such thoughts stimulating?

Is there a difference in physical cheating as opposed to mental cheating?

Do you fantasies about others whilst making love to your partner?

Honest answers required, no cheating please.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, you think that everyone is really just an animal who has no hope of controlling themselves what so ever, becasue lust is...what....just too strong, or our will is just too weak?

Ya know I have had desires to kill people that have been my enemies. I would say that I had a lust that wanted to be fed and killing that person who pissed me off would do it. I never killed anyone. I was able to control myself same as when I walked away from a "sure thing".

So, thoughts are thoughts, as long as they stay that way they have not effected the world around the person thinking them. The minute that person acts based on those thoughts, even it is just speech, those thoughts now take on another form of reality one that is based on the world we share. Do not confuse thought and action, it is that same mistake of confusing lust for love, they are two separate things.

Yeah I have had desires to kill certain people to, And I did. But I guess thats all part of being in combat and all.

To say we are weak or any other reason we use is just a way not to accept responsibility for our actions.. No One forces us to cheat... We all have that decision to make for our selves..

Personally I think, if you cheat on your partner, you never really loved them in the truest sense, as if you did, you would never want to cause them hurt or humiliation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think differently. If you don't allow your partner to cheat, you never really loved them in the truest sense, as if you did.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds like typical male mumbo-jumbo to justify letting the little head do the thinking

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No no no, I'm absolutely not a typical male.

So are you saying your coming out?

[retirednavyman]

and i assume you do this with a condom, right? otherwise you pass any potential disease (including aids my man) to your next partner?

[daleyboy]

Are you a compulsive cheater?

NO

Edited January 25, 2006 by daleyboy

[Fast Eddie]

But if you are honest with your partner from the start about your philandering ways, surely this is no longer 'cheating'?

If no lies are involved, is it not possible to love the girl whilst still being open to other sexual liasons?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I understand what you and Dustoff are saying above, but I find this is a lot harder to sustain in reality. I am only that non-possessive about someone when I don't really care if they cheat or not, and if that is the case, why would I be in a relationship with them? I would be too susceptible to the attention of others who were capable of focusing on me a lot better. Because, I think that's what it comes down to - focusing. And to be honest with you, it's my personal belief that this ability separates the men from the boys.

In a relationship, I think it's safe to say that a woman needs to feel emotionally secure, which affects everything, including her sexuality towards you. If I'm going to end up constantly distracted by someone's distractions, I'd much rather cut them loose and wander around myself, or find someone who can focus. I just can't be bothered with the kind of headaches that come from a partner with a roving eye or constantly shifting intentions What a turnoff.

I agree with Dustoff that the motivation behind the expectation of monogamy is a slightly selfish one, and to some extent stems from people's insecurities. However, i also realise that one of the reasons for people embarking on relationships is a need for emotional fulfillment and security, and consequently the inherent self interest is understandable.

I agree Kat that very few people, in reality, can manage their intimate personal relationships with the degree of freedom that Dustoff and his partner are open to embracing, without one of the individuals feeling dissatisfied or unhappy if this freedom is regularly acted upon.

While i find that in principle i like what he says, i doubt my own ability to attain the depth of connection and intimacy that one day i will want from a relationship, while maintaining a more open stance. This is because i think it would be very rare that you will ever quite get 100% from a partner while you are engaged in affairs, however fleeting, and i'm not sure that i could invest 100% if the roles were reversed.

Do i suffer from jealousy and selfishness? Probably. Does it have anything to do with love? Maybe only the fear of losing it, and somebody you care deeply for, which kind of answers the first question. With any luck i still have a long way to go in life, maybe i can cure myself of such vices.

Right on but that is a question that most people in a relationship are unable to deal with. Marriage and even bf/gf relationships are usually about contracts, spoken and unspoken, and if someone does not submit to the insecurities of the other, they are branded a 'cheater'. And it is so common that even if you are in a relationship with no promise of monogamy, many others will still classify you as a cheater.

The sentence of Dustoff's above echo's some of my own thoughts, and my previous remarks on this thread were in the main aimed at those who would expound the sentiments described. I think the labelling of honest individuals, whatever one's personal feelings on the practice (which is not an inherently bad one), in such a derogatory way, is doing the individual concerned a gross injustice. Of course, the motivation for doing so is clearly to deter others who feel inclined towards polygynous relationships, lest society judges them the same.

[BKK90210]

I spent 4 years .....

I am now married to woman who is my best friend we get along well, we work together well and we have great babies.

However, I will never let myself get into the position I was in before, love is not worth it.......

Oh?...how did you make great babies then...if you didn't get into position you were before?

[greenwanderer108]

I want to address the comments about fairness, karma, and doing unto others...etc..

Several posters say things like 'What if it was the other way around and your girl wanted to ...?'

And if I applied this 'what if' to my own situation, then we would have reverse all the roles to make it a fair saying..

If she came to me now saying she wanted to have another...or if in fact i found out she was cheating...then no, I wouldn't accept it, though feel justified in my own infidelity behavior...

Before you feminists rage up...hear me out more..

However, if our roles were truly reveresed, and she in fact was the bread winner, made vital/final decisions in our living, was head of the household, proved herself to be a responsible adult who was able to fend for herself without dying of solitude, and was in a position to take responsibility for her actions---good or bad

then yes I would obliged to accept her 'adult' decision to do as she pleases.

[autonomous_unit]

...

However, if our roles were truly reveresed, and she in fact was the bread winner, made vital/final decisions in our living, was head of the household, proved herself to be a responsible adult who was able to fend for herself without dying of solitude, and was in a position to take responsibility for her actions---good or bad

then yes I would obliged to accept her 'adult' decision to do as she pleases.

This pretty much sums up why this is a pointless discussion. You've keyed into the fact that relationships are not really symmetric, but rather complementary. You have expectations, your partner has expectations, and the relationship "works" when these expectations are all satisfied.

An intimate relationship is between the people involved, and it is THEIR expectations which define the rules. Only he/she can decide if there has been a violation. I'd go back to the beginning and define "cheating" as trying to violate the rules while hiding this violation. We can answer whether we tried to hide something, but it is the other party who answers whether their expectations were violated.

Likewise, you cannot assert what expectations the other party should have; you can only commit to whether you will meet those expectations or not. Where it all goes to hel_l is when people have unusual expectations and/or presume commitments that were not intended. Of course, this happens all the time because we are too lazy and finite to be enumerating all of our conditions and expectations at every interaction. I think a mature person realizes that such assumptions are governed by norms in society, and you had better be damned explicit when you start shrugging off such norms as irrelevant, lest the other party expect normal behavior of you.

[LindsayBKK]

Ask Taksin he knows how NOT to pay 27 million baht in Tax.

[Dustoff]

...

However, if our roles were truly reveresed, and she in fact was the bread winner, made vital/final decisions in our living, was head of the household, proved herself to be a responsible adult who was able to fend for herself without dying of solitude, and was in a position to take responsibility for her actions---good or bad

then yes I would obliged to accept her 'adult' decision to do as she pleases.

Does she also call you "Daddy"? Laughing.. I can just see me explaining to my very intelligent and self-sufficient soulmate that I have to evaluate her with a long list of qualifiers before I would 'accept' her decision to do as she pleases.

She would think that I had taken leave of my senses - and rightly so.

...

Likewise, you cannot assert what expectations the other party should have; you can only commit to whether you will meet those expectations or not. Where it all goes to hel_l is when people have unusual expectations and/or presume commitments that were not intended. Of course, this happens all the time because we are too lazy and finite to be enumerating all of our conditions and expectations at every interaction. I think a mature person realizes that such assumptions are governed by norms in society, and you had better be damned explicit when you start shrugging off such norms as irrelevant, lest the other party expect normal behavior of you.

An excellent response! For me, 'expectations' is the key word and the downfall of immature relationships. "..assumptions are governed by norms in society" indeed and since the great majority of us on these boards are international travelers, those "norms" can be very tricky indeed! For one thing, the word mia noi means something that would NOT go over as well with western women, don't you think? (No bias or prejudice here!)

I also agree that total honesty is prime - if one is seeking to slip under the wire of the expectations barrier and get away with it, that for me is 'cheating'. Plain old dishonesty toward someone you supposedly love and THAT will hurt! If my wife had an 'affair', the only thing that would really crush me is if she somehow felt that she could not be honest with me. Shucks, I may even ask if she thought to take photos! Joking!

I must admit that my wife and I DO have differences in our hopes/dreams, but only in how we would deal with them if they were not realized. Actually, the more I think about it, that is not true. We both want very much to spend the rest of our lives together but if she were to find someone who would make her more happy, I would send her off with my sincere blessings and be glad indeed for the betterment of her life. While I would miss her terribly, my own self-pity would not taint my love nor my wish for her utmost happiness and well-being. No, Really! I actually have an ex-wife who is my wonderful friend and my current wife and I have stayed at her home and they really get along famously. We also visited a couple of other g/f's and had one visit us here in CM. My wife took her leave to go "shopping" with a wink and a huge smile...

But, could I leave her? No. Could I lie to her? No way. Ever.

[markuk]

cheating wether it be with a woman, man, Thai, Farang or whatever!

come on make your mind up what you like!! no matter how drunk i get i stick to what i know!!!

BTW, what comes in the "whatever" category?

[Polly]

However, if our roles were truly reveresed, and she in fact was the bread winner, made vital/final decisions in our living, was head of the household, proved herself to be a responsible adult who was able to fend for herself without dying of solitude, and was in a position to take responsibility for her actions---good or bad

then yes I would obliged to accept her 'adult' decision to do as she pleases.

So, have you married a child?

[Oye at Home]

Greenwanderer108,

"However, if our roles were truly reveresed, and she in fact was the bread winner, made vital/final decisions in our living, was head of the household, proved herself to be a responsible adult who was able to fend for herself without dying of solitude, and was in a position to take responsibility for her actions---good or bad

then yes I would obliged to accept her 'adult' decision to do as she pleases"

LOVE IT! I.e., I guess there are no consequences to your behavior as long as you have economic control--but there are consequences to her behavior--ie, you'll kick her out if she cheats--consequences she cannot live with, so she doesn't cheat. But if she doesn't care if she gets kicked out (i.e., she can pay her own way) you'll let her stay, even if she cheats.

Neither of you actually cares about the other--You're in it for the control, and she's in it for the money. AN ABSOLUTELY CLASSIC TRADE-OFF, and so clearly stated!

[Uma~~]

I've often wondered if all people are cheaters? I know myself I can be a very good guy for about 2-3 months of time then the next thing you know I'm out cheating wether it be with a woman, man, Thai, Farang or whatever! Sometimes I think it's the copious amounts of booze guzzled that night or day or whenever it happens.....But at other times there's no drinks and most of the situations are some what bizarre (like when room service gets ordered and the drinks come and next thing you know wham bam thank you man, as the other is out shopping) You know times like that.

So is it just me or is everyone a dawg cheater like me???

This has been discussed very recently elsewhere and I think I said that although manogomy may not be natural, it is a personal choice that we make to the person we love and have decided to stay with. AKA commitment, and I also said on another thread that if you can't make that pledge then you should stay single.

I have never been cheated on but I did cheat on a guy myself just once. I was not as serious about the relationship as he was and he was devastated when he found out. I felt awful and I never want to feel like that again.

I didn't love him in the way he wanted but I was very fond of him and it destroyed not only our relationship but any chances of a friendship and have not heard from him in the four years since.

[blabbel]

All you guys and gals who classify yourselves as loyal, loving, non-cheaters, please leave the forum and go and polish your halo's. They're looking a little tarnished.

Let me ask you this: You are sitting in a crowded room/bar with your partner by your side. You look across at a most attractive person on the other side of the room/bar.

Do you mentally undress that person? Do you imagine yourself in bed with that person and making U turns under the sheets? Do you find such thoughts stimulating?

Is there a difference in physical cheating as opposed to mental cheating?

Do you fantasies about others whilst making love to your partner?

Honest answers required, no cheating please.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You must be confused, if you cannot tell the difference between a fantasy and an actual event, and its impact on a real life relationship.

[blabbel]

...

I must admit that my wife and I DO have differences in our hopes/dreams, but only in how we would deal with them if they were not realized. Actually, the more I think about it, that is not true. We both want very much to spend the rest of our lives together but if she were to find someone who would make her more happy, I would send her off with my sincere blessings and be glad indeed for the betterment of her life. While I would miss her terribly, my own self-pity would not taint my love nor my wish for her utmost happiness and well-being. No, Really! I actually have an ex-wife who is my wonderful friend and my current wife and I have stayed at her home and they really get along famously. We also visited a couple of other g/f's and had one visit us here in CM. My wife took her leave to go "shopping" with a wink and a huge smile...

But, could I leave her? No. Could I lie to her? No way. Ever.

My hat off to you, I don't know anybody who could maintain a relationship like this (but a few who tried).

It makes refreshing reading after the comments about men having "instinctual urges", which I feel are designed solely to justify their womanising and 'cheating'.

This is a dangerous line of thinking, the logic extension would be to apply this to rape scenarios, and it is indeed often brought up to avoid taking responsibility.

Curious also is the statistic fact, that far more men than women abandon their child(ren) at a very young age, is this another "instinctual urge" some of us cannot resist?

As humans we have evolved to have a conscious choice over our actions, though some of us need a few more reincarnations to get there.