U.S. says it will veto Palestinian statehood bid at the UN

[coma]

They have swallowed all the far-left lies about the situation, but most of them are not "haters" per se - of course there are quite a few exceptions and many of them seem to be posting on this very forum.

I'm talking about the governments, not the people. The majority of western democratic governments do not agree with what Israel is doing.

The simple fact is that your view is a minority, yet you think everyone else has swallowed the lies? The mirror is a good place to start looking.

Ditto.

Edited September 13, 2011 by Scott
deleted quoted edited out

[Ulysses G.]

The mirror is a good place to start looking.

You might follow your own advice for a change.

Most governments would do exactly the same thing, or much worse, if they were in a similar situation. They are hypocrites pure and simple and the enablers of Islamic Jihad fit the bill too.

Edited September 12, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

If the "Palestinians" want their own state, all they have to do is renounce terrorism, recognize Israel and sign a peace treaty. They need to take responsibilty for their own mistakes going way back before 1948. They did start the fighting after all.

But Israel doesn't have to take any responsibility right?

They have offered peace over and over again and accepted the UN peace plan in 1948 - all of which the Arabs refused. You need to read a little history before giving silly lectures on the Internet.

Edited September 12, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[koheesti]

Anyone know the difference between Chapter VI and Chapter VII resolutions in the UN?

I'd love to see a two-state solution in Israel/Palestine. I just don't believe for one nano-second that the leaders of the Palestinian people could be peaceful neighbors of Israel (again, look at Gaza). Most Palestinians have been brainwashed since childhood to hate the Jews (Sesame Jihad Street) so I see little hope in the future. It is a shame that such blatant hatred not only exists but is blindly accepted by the useful idiots in the West.

[maidu]

If the "Palestinians" want their own state, all they have to do is renounce terrorism, recognize Israel and sign a peace treaty.

I agree that is incumbent upon the Palestinians to do those basic things. Even in the best case scenario, the two small land zones which will be called 'Palestine' will be welfare basket cases - needing constant money and support. They'll probably get most of that (as they do now) from the US. Can you imagine the Russians or Chinese or rich Arab states tangibly helping the Palestinians? They don't do much now. How many Palestinians does rich Saudi Arabia take in? Very few, if any.

In the bigger picture of things, the land area comprising those Balkanized countries between Egypt and Turkey are bereft of natural resources, except some have oil, a finite resource. They don't have much soil or water or forests. Gaza and the West Bank have even less natural resources than their neighbors. The whole region should be vacated of people and left to heal itself. The Israelis, at least, are doing what they can to replenish the soil and use solar power, etc.

Interesting that the first evidence of agriculture (figs) were found in Israel. Figs need to be planted by cuttings. The figs found, were dated to a time before edible grass seeds were sown (wheat, barley, millet, rye, oats, rice).

[Scott]

What currency will they use? I am guessing the shekel will be out of the question. Perhaps the Palestinian Peso?

[Steely Dan]

What currency will they use? I am guessing the shekel will be out of the question. Perhaps the Palestinian Peso?

I'd go for something more primitive than currency, perhaps simple bartering based on the availability of daughters and donkeys.

[Jingthing]

This is getting kind of silly.

1. The state recognition IS going to be vetoed. 100 percent certain.

2. The UN upgrade status will pass. 100 percent.

3. Hamas, the terrorist labeled government of GAZA opposes bringing this vote to the UN in the first place.

4. "President" Abbas is not a legitimate leader of the Palestinian people. He has delayed elections since 2009.

5. There are 9 million people globally who self identify as Palestinians. They don't get to vote in west bank elections even if they occurred.

6. A recent survey reported on AL JAZEERA reported that only 30 percent of West Bank Arabs support the statehood vote in the UN. Surprising, yes?

This seems to be a lot about aging Abbas's legacy and very little about the real aspirations of global Palestinians.

Will this vote in the UN bring peace and a two state solution closer to fruition? Of course not.

Edited September 13, 2011 by Jingthing

[Steely Dan]

Well fancy that!

http://www.debka.com/article/21299/

The tempest which Israel had tensely anticipated for September in the wake of a Palestinian bid for unilateral UN recognition of their state looks like fizzling out before it begins as a result of a massive US campaign to avert it, backed by Saudi Arabia, Europe and Egypt.

[up-country_sinclair]

The Israeli govt. has lowered the bar yet again. This time it is threatening the Palestinians with "harsh consequences" if they seek UN membership.

Who could have ever imagined a time when one govt. threatens another for seeking membership status in the UN.

It's as bizarre as it is despicable.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/8762950/Israel-warns-of-harsh-consequences-of-Palestinian-UN-bid.html

[Scott]

Not so bizarre--there was the whole Taiwan/China thing.

[chuckd]

Added for information. Apparently the Palestinians will not permit Jews to live under their regime.

______________________________________________________

PLO ambassador says Palestinian state should be free of Jews

By Oren Dorell, USA TODAY Updated 23h 37m ago

"After the experience of the last 44 years of military occupation and all the conflict and friction, I think it would be in the best interest of the two people to be separated," Maen Areikat, the PLO ambassador, said during a meeting with reporters sponsored by The Christian Science Monitor. He was responding to a question about the rights of minorities in a Palestine of the future.

Such a state would be the first to officially prohibit Jews or any other faith since Nazi Germany, which sought a country that was judenrein, or cleansed of Jews, said Elliott Abrams, a former U.S. National Security Council official.

Israel has 1.3 million Muslims who are Israeli citizens. Jews have lived in "Judea and Samaria," the biblical name for the West Bank, for thousands of years. Areikat said the PLO seeks a secular state, but that Palestinians need separation to work on their own national identity.

Entire article here: http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2011-09-13/palestinian-israeli-jews-future-state-israel-PLO/50394882/1

[Jingthing]

Yes, and Israel includes about 20 percent Arabs in their population, and the Palestinians of course continue to DEMAND unconditional right of return to the Jewish state of Israel. There are about 9 million global Arabs who identify as Palestinians.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Jingthing

[Steely Dan]

Yes, and Israel includes about 20 percent Arabs in their population, and the Palestinians of course continue to DEMAND unconditional right of return to the Jewish state of Israel. There are about 9 million global Arabs who identify as Palestinians.

I'm prepared to bet that not many Arabs in Israel would want to swap Israeli citizenship for the corrupt racist benefits sponge that is the Palestinian authority.

[Steely Dan]

The Israeli govt. has lowered the bar yet again. This time it is threatening the Palestinians with "harsh consequences" if they seek UN membership.

Who could have ever imagined a time when one govt. threatens another for seeking membership status in the UN.

It's as bizarre as it is despicable.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/8762950/Israel-warns-of-harsh-consequences-of-Palestinian-UN-bid.html

Funnily enough Hamas gave the same warning, but I guess you don't find that either bizarre nor despicable. :jap:

[Jingthing]

Yes, and Israel includes about 20 percent Arabs in their population, and the Palestinians of course continue to DEMAND unconditional right of return to the Jewish state of Israel. There are about 9 million global Arabs who identify as Palestinians.

I'm prepared to bet that not many Arabs in Israel would want to swap Israeli citizenship for the corrupt racist benefits sponge that is the Palestinian authority.

Especially not the gay ones. They would be murdered by Hamas.

[up-country_sinclair]

The Israeli govt. has lowered the bar yet again. This time it is threatening the Palestinians with "harsh consequences" if they seek UN membership.

Who could have ever imagined a time when one govt. threatens another for seeking membership status in the UN.

It's as bizarre as it is despicable.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/8762950/Israel-warns-of-harsh-consequences-of-Palestinian-UN-bid.html

Funnily enough Hamas gave the same warning, but I guess you don't find that either bizarre nor despicable. :jap:

Funnily enough (not really), your attempted spinning of events was thoroughly knocked down by another poster on that thread. To paraphrase the post, Hamas' statement is in regard to defending against future Israeli aggression.

I also have some breaking news to report:

For the UN vote, Israel has finagled the support of Grenada. That's right, Grenada.

[chuckd]

The Israeli govt. has lowered the bar yet again. This time it is threatening the Palestinians with "harsh consequences" if they seek UN membership.

Who could have ever imagined a time when one govt. threatens another for seeking membership status in the UN.

It's as bizarre as it is despicable.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/8762950/Israel-warns-of-harsh-consequences-of-Palestinian-UN-bid.html

Funnily enough Hamas gave the same warning, but I guess you don't find that either bizarre nor despicable. :jap:

Funnily enough (not really), your attempted spinning of events was thoroughly knocked down by another poster on that thread. To paraphrase the post, Hamas' statement is in regard to defending against future Israeli aggression.

I also have some breaking news to report:

For the UN vote, Israel has finagled the support of Grenada. That's right, Grenada.

Funnily enough (really) Grenada's vote will offset Russia's vote.

[up-country_sinclair]

1 down ~90 to go!

[SAffer]

Last year, Israel and the Palestinian Authority stalled the peace negotiations, which were supported by the United States and the United Nations, after the Jewish nation refused to extend a moratorium on settlement building in the occupied Palestinian territory in September.

And some have the gumption to say it is Palestines fault.

I have met very very few people that like/support the US. It is in decline but still uses trade to get what it wants from other nations. What especially rankled most that I know was the 'with us or against us' statement. Yep, we went with you because we like the money we get from you. Take that away and we are against you.

Every country uses trade as a hammer. You are very naive if you think otherwise.

That's an interesting statement to make about your own country. Take the money we give you away and you are against us would mean your loyalty is for sale to the highest bidder.

Did I misinterpret your statement?

I doubt Wallaby speaks for his country, seeing as they are the America of the Southern Hemisphere.

[up-country_sinclair]

I need to ammend the above post. If the Palestinians go to the General Assembly, they'll need 129 out of 193 votes to be given status as a non-member observer state. As it stands now, 122 nations have already recognized Palestine.

If Palestine gets the 129 votes, they'll be able to join the ICC, and one of the many advantages of this would be that the settlement building would likely come to a halt.

But it's worth pointing out that the content of the resolution hasn't been revealed yet, and the wording will certainly determine how some countries will vote. You can also count on a lot of vote buying to take place.

[up-country_sinclair]

Abbas has announced he will ask for full UN membership but left open the possibility of going for non-member observer status. He will submit the bid for statehood after addressing the General Assembly next week on the 23rd.

It will be a great day for justice and oppressed people all over the world.

http://news.yahoo.com/palestinian-leader-ask-full-un-membership-154313405.html

[Scott]

One post deleted. This thread is about Palestinian statehood.

Further anti-Islamic rants and links will result in warnings.

[coma]

Abbas has announced he will ask for full UN membership but left open the possibility of going for non-member observer status. He will submit the bid for statehood after addressing the General Assembly next week on the 23rd.

It will be a great day for justice and oppressed people all over the world.

http://news.yahoo.co...-154313405.html

Let's hope so.

[Jingthing]

Most Palestinians don't even want this, so I really don't get the excitement.

Actually I do. It's about embarrassing America and kicking us while we're already down. Have fun.

Edited September 17, 2011 by Jingthing

[coma]

Most Palestinians don't even want this, so I really don't get the excitement.

Actually I do. It's about embarrassing America and kicking us while we're already down. Have fun.

!!!!

[GentlemanJim]

Most Palestinians don't even want this, so I really don't get the excitement.

Actually I do. It's about embarrassing America and kicking us while we're already down. Have fun.

But on this subject America should be embarrassed Jingthing. As for kicking you while you are down, I am afraid that the US inept supervision and standardization on Wall Street, despite LOTS of warnings brought the rest of us down with you. In 5 years the US will be 25 Trillion in debt, and they will try and make you pay for it from Thailand. So really it is nothing to do with kicking you while you are down. Palestine has been around for a couple of thousand years, how can it not be a state? If it were not for the Brits and the US then this whole mess would not exist. We should be embarrassed.

[maidu]

Whether or not this statehood bid gets voted in, as it appears it will, it will get the US veto. This is what will happen. The many agitated young men in Gaza and W.Bank will get more agitated, and bad things will happen. The tit for tat policy of the past 50 years will increase in intensity. Israel will block its borders with the P. territories. Bombs will get lobbed out of Gaza. Israel will retaliate. Insurgents will hide among civilians and guess who will get maimed the most. Yup, that's right, Palestinian civilians. Add to that, whole new generations of Palestinians are getting born (one of the largest child-per-mother %'s in the world!), and they'll all be taught hate and revenge.

Let's see if Egypt can take up the slack of supplying goods to Gaza, when the doors slam shut on the Israeli border. Saudis, with their billions, will talk the talk, but as usual, won't walk the walk.

A Palestinian State will deny the existence of its neighbor, Israel. Is there any country in the world which denies the existence of a border country? Well yes, there is. China denies the existence of both Tibet and Taiwan, but that's a subject for another thread.

[geriatrickid]

Most Palestinians don't even want this, so I really don't get the excitement.

Actually I do. It's about embarrassing America and kicking us while we're already down. Have fun.

But on this subject America should be embarrassed Jingthing. As for kicking you while you are down, I am afraid that the US inept supervision and standardization on Wall Street, despite LOTS of warnings brought the rest of us down with you. In 5 years the US will be 25 Trillion in debt, and they will try and make you pay for it from Thailand. So really it is nothing to do with kicking you while you are down. Palestine has been around for a couple of thousand years, how can it not be a state? If it were not for the Brits and the US then this whole mess would not exist. We should be embarrassed.

And away we go. Historically, Palestine was a creation of the Roman Empire meant to insult and belittle the Judeans and other Israelites that the Romans had conquered in their expansion of the empire. The areas currently occupied by the "Palestinians" were occupied by nomads now known as Bedouins. Judea and Samaria was historically the land of the Israelites. Times change and refugees arrive. In the case of Gaza and the Sinai, the Bedouins were dsplaced by the Egyptians and then other arabs now called Palestinians. Then the million or so Jew refugees showed up after they were expelled from arab countries.

This statehood thing is a ticking time bomb for the Palestinians. Know why? Up until now the Bedouins have only been able to pursue their land claims against Israel since it was the only country with a functioning independent judiciary. Won't it be interesting when the Bedouins start making claims against the Hamas government for their lands taken by the arabs in Gaza. They will have some rights of redress under UN judicial bodies. As well, membership in the UN also brings some obligations in respect to fundamental human rights. I can't wait for the apologists to mount a defense when the lack of due process in the Hamas and PLA controlled areas is questioned. What will all the liberal groups do when they have to confront the horrid state of womens rights in the Palestinian nation. The Palestinian arabs are going to give up alot as they get this statehood. One of the things they won't like is scrutiny.

Edited September 18, 2011 by geriatrickid

[Steely Dan]

This statehood thing is a ticking time bomb for the Palestinians. Know why? Up until now the Bedouins have only been able to pursue their land claims against Israel since it was the only country with a functioning independent judiciary. Won't it be interesting when the Bedouins start making claims against the Hamas government for their lands taken by the arabs in Gaza. They will have some rights of redress under UN judicial bodies. As well, membership in the UN also brings some obligations in respect to fundamental human rights. I can't wait for the apologists to mount a defense when the lack of due process in the Hamas and PLA controlled areas is questioned. What will all the liberal groups do when they have to confront the horrid state of womens rights in the Palestinian nation. The Palestinian arabs are going to give up alot as they get this statehood. One of the things they won't like is scrutiny.

Excellently put! I suspect exploding heads all round for the apologists, though they will have discreetly removed their freedom for Palestine stickers from their cars and disappeared into the ether long before the problems start to emerge.