What Golf Ball Do You Use?

[Melpomene]

Wow, I'll have to write to the PGA and tell them they were wrong all those years ago when they put the handicap limit on. I can assure you as fact that there was a handicap limit of 4. But then again, you know what my golfing history is.

PGA doesn't have anything to do with your playing status. If you want to you can become a professional golfer when you play of 23. If you want to become a member of PGA there's a limit. Mst national associations have a limit as well. But becoming a Professional golfer doesn't have anything to do with a private commercial interest.

If I'm not incorrect Ian Poulter turned professional at a point where he didn't qualify for PGA membership. The Swedish player Jarmo Sandelin was in the region of 4 or 5 when he turned professional.

Do you actually know ANYTHING about this...?

Poulter is a great example of an 'exception to the rule', according to this he was off 4 :

http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/players/playerid=2133/index.html

Sandelin off 1

http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/players/playerid=8051/index.html

We've a young lad at our club who is off +1 and decreasing rapidly at 15, he's had some success in national junior comps and represented GB boys. Who knows if he will make it or not, but he is a hell of a nice lad, loves his golf and is a pleasure to play with whether he's having a game with a 23 handicapper or 2.3 handicapper. That's exactly what golf should be about, and why it's the greatest of all sports. The fact that all levels of playing ability are able to play together competitively means the sport will continue to grow, and thankfully the old elitist attitudes are dying out, well for most people they are anyway .

[Forethat]

Wow, I'll have to write to the PGA and tell them they were wrong all those years ago when they put the handicap limit on. I can assure you as fact that there was a handicap limit of 4. But then again, you know what my golfing history is.

PGA doesn't have anything to do with your playing status. If you want to you can become a professional golfer when you play of 23. If you want to become a member of PGA there's a limit. Mst national associations have a limit as well. But becoming a Professional golfer doesn't have anything to do with a private commercial interest.

If I'm not incorrect Ian Poulter turned professional at a point where he didn't qualify for PGA membership. The Swedish player Jarmo Sandelin was in the region of 4 or 5 when he turned professional.

Do you actually know ANYTHING about this...?

Poulter is a great example of an 'exception to the rule', according to this he was off 4 :

http://www.europeant...2133/index.html

Sandelin off 1

http://www.europeant...8051/index.html

We've a young lad at our club who is off +1 and decreasing rapidly at 15, he's had some success in national junior comps and represented GB boys. Who knows if he will make it or not, but he is a hell of a nice lad, loves his golf and is a pleasure to play with whether he's having a game with a 23 handicapper or 2.3 handicapper. That's exactly what golf should be about, and why it's the greatest of all sports. The fact that all levels of playing ability are able to play together competitively means the sport will continue to grow, and thankfully the old elitist attitudes are dying out, well for most people they are anyway .

Just asked a friend about Sandelin and apparently the weird thing with him was something in the region of this:

According to the legend, he quit school when he was off 7 or something similar since he was "going to be good enough to become a professional anyway". This is unconfirmed information but I do remember that there was something weird with "spaceman".

Of course there are many players who doesn't follow the pattern I described, another example is Nick Faldo, but I claim that most of the talents follow roughly that pattern from 15 and upwards.

Just by reading some of the answers in this thread makes me absolutely confident about three things:

1. There's a huuuuge belief in ones own abilities as a golf player.

2. Since many of you have never played wit ha professional golfer you simply dont understand how good they are. On occasion you manage to shoot 75 on the home course and think that a professional golfer from, for instance, the Asian Tour is only a couple of shots better. Jeeezuz are you up for a surprise.

3. You probably think that you'd be able to shoot only a couple of shots worse than what you usually do on the home course in case that course was set up for a tour event. Again, you dont have a clue what you're talking about.

Most of the players on the Challenge or Asian tour, for instance, will shoot a normal weekend golf course to total smithereens. A normal golf course set up for hackers, doesn't have ANY defense what so ever against a professional golfer. They will score in the mid 60's easily. And why shouldn't they? Many of them had a handicap of +4 or even better when they turned pro (as in turned professional) meaning they are expected to shoot 4 shots better than SSS (if we are to talk in Wallaby's terms). To say that someone has a +3 hcp without that player regularly breaks par is hilarious and again only serves as a display of ones complete incompetence. Mind you that many national associations governing the hcp for that nation only allows player with a hcp better than a certain level to adjust hcp during tournaments. Go figure out how many rounds under par that player probably shot to reach +3 (and do take in to consideration that you adjust your hcp UPWARDS when you are outside the buffer zone for your hcp).

I once read that the difference between hcp 2 and hcp +2 is bigger than the difference between 2 and 36, if playing skills are measured. I tend to agree. If this makes someone feel uncomfortable, so be it. The sad fact is that from the professional golfers perspective, you cant hit a golf ball. You're hackers. Read and weep.

[kenny999]

Wow, I'll have to write to the PGA and tell them they were wrong all those years ago when they put the handicap limit on. I can assure you as fact that there was a handicap limit of 4. But then again, you know what my golfing history is.

PGA doesn't have anything to do with your playing status. If you want to you can become a professional golfer when you play of 23. If you want to become a member of PGA there's a limit. Mst national associations have a limit as well. But becoming a Professional golfer doesn't have anything to do with a private commercial interest.

If I'm not incorrect Ian Poulter turned professional at a point where he didn't qualify for PGA membership. The Swedish player Jarmo Sandelin was in the region of 4 or 5 when he turned professional.

Do you actually know ANYTHING about this...?

Poulter is a great example of an 'exception to the rule', according to this he was off 4 :

http://www.europeant...2133/index.html

Sandelin off 1

http://www.europeant...8051/index.html

We've a young lad at our club who is off +1 and decreasing rapidly at 15, he's had some success in national junior comps and represented GB boys. Who knows if he will make it or not, but he is a hell of a nice lad, loves his golf and is a pleasure to play with whether he's having a game with a 23 handicapper or 2.3 handicapper. That's exactly what golf should be about, and why it's the greatest of all sports. The fact that all levels of playing ability are able to play together competitively means the sport will continue to grow, and thankfully the old elitist attitudes are dying out, well for most people they are anyway .

Just asked a friend about Sandelin and apparently the weird thing with him was something in the region of this:

According to the legend, he quit school when he was off 7 or something similar since he was "going to be good enough to become a professional anyway". This is unconfirmed information but I do remember that there was something weird with "spaceman".

Of course there are many players who doesn't follow the pattern I described, another example is Nick Faldo, but I claim that most of the talents follow roughly that pattern from 15 and upwards.

Just by reading some of the answers in this thread makes me absolutely confident about three things:

1. There's a huuuuge belief in ones own abilities as a golf player.

2. Since many of you have never played wit ha professional golfer you simply dont understand how good they are. On occasion you manage to shoot 75 on the home course and think that a professional golfer from, for instance, the Asian Tour is only a couple of shots better. Jeeezuz are you up for a surprise.

3. You probably think that you'd be able to shoot only a couple of shots worse than what you usually do on the home course in case that course was set up for a tour event. Again, you dont have a clue what you're talking about.

Most of the players on the Challenge or Asian tour, for instance, will shoot a normal weekend golf course to total smithereens. A normal golf course set up for hackers, doesn't have ANY defense what so ever against a professional golfer. They will score in the mid 60's easily. And why shouldn't they? Many of them had a handicap of +4 or even better when they turned pro (as in turned professional) meaning they are expected to shoot 4 shots better than SSS (if we are to talk in Wallaby's terms). To say that someone has a +3 hcp without that player regularly breaks par is hilarious and again only serves as a display of ones complete incompetence. Mind you that many national associations governing the hcp for that nation only allows player with a hcp better than a certain level to adjust hcp during tournaments. Go figure out how many rounds under par that player probably shot to reach +3 (and do take in to consideration that you adjust your hcp UPWARDS when you are outside the buffer zone for your hcp).

I once read that the difference between hcp 2 and hcp +2 is bigger than the difference between 2 and 36, if playing skills are measured. I tend to agree. If this makes someone feel uncomfortable, so be it. The sad fact is that from the professional golfers perspective, you cant hit a golf ball. You're hackers. Read and weep.

I have been lost in this thread for a long time now, I do know the difference between me and a pro it is so vast you could not measure it, when I watch golf on the tv and see these fantastic players hitting the ball they make it look so easy it boggles the mind, I actually think my swing is not all that different until you try to hit a shot like them, you realize at times like this just how great these people are, I am happy with my game and love to see the ball flying off my 3 wood, in fact any ball you hit well looks great in the air, golf is all about money, talent and having the ability to improve constantly wish I had all 3 of these attributes!!! oh and I am reading and weaping because I would love to play this game at a very high standard, maybe in the next life!! lol

[Melpomene]

Wow, I'll have to write to the PGA and tell them they were wrong all those years ago when they put the handicap limit on. I can assure you as fact that there was a handicap limit of 4. But then again, you know what my golfing history is.

PGA doesn't have anything to do with your playing status. If you want to you can become a professional golfer when you play of 23. If you want to become a member of PGA there's a limit. Mst national associations have a limit as well. But becoming a Professional golfer doesn't have anything to do with a private commercial interest.

If I'm not incorrect Ian Poulter turned professional at a point where he didn't qualify for PGA membership. The Swedish player Jarmo Sandelin was in the region of 4 or 5 when he turned professional.

Do you actually know ANYTHING about this...?

Poulter is a great example of an 'exception to the rule', according to this he was off 4 :

http://www.europeant...2133/index.html

Sandelin off 1

http://www.europeant...8051/index.html

We've a young lad at our club who is off +1 and decreasing rapidly at 15, he's had some success in national junior comps and represented GB boys. Who knows if he will make it or not, but he is a hell of a nice lad, loves his golf and is a pleasure to play with whether he's having a game with a 23 handicapper or 2.3 handicapper. That's exactly what golf should be about, and why it's the greatest of all sports. The fact that all levels of playing ability are able to play together competitively means the sport will continue to grow, and thankfully the old elitist attitudes are dying out, well for most people they are anyway .

Just asked a friend about Sandelin and apparently the weird thing with him was something in the region of this:

According to the legend, he quit school when he was off 7 or something similar since he was "going to be good enough to become a professional anyway". This is unconfirmed information but I do remember that there was something weird with "spaceman".

Of course there are many players who doesn't follow the pattern I described, another example is Nick Faldo, but I claim that most of the talents follow roughly that pattern from 15 and upwards.

Just by reading some of the answers in this thread makes me absolutely confident about three things:

1. There's a huuuuge belief in ones own abilities as a golf player.

2. Since many of you have never played wit ha professional golfer you simply dont understand how good they are. On occasion you manage to shoot 75 on the home course and think that a professional golfer from, for instance, the Asian Tour is only a couple of shots better. Jeeezuz are you up for a surprise.

3. You probably think that you'd be able to shoot only a couple of shots worse than what you usually do on the home course in case that course was set up for a tour event. Again, you dont have a clue what you're talking about.

Most of the players on the Challenge or Asian tour, for instance, will shoot a normal weekend golf course to total smithereens. A normal golf course set up for hackers, doesn't have ANY defense what so ever against a professional golfer. They will score in the mid 60's easily. And why shouldn't they? Many of them had a handicap of +4 or even better when they turned pro (as in turned professional) meaning they are expected to shoot 4 shots better than SSS (if we are to talk in Wallaby's terms). To say that someone has a +3 hcp without that player regularly breaks par is hilarious and again only serves as a display of ones complete incompetence. Mind you that many national associations governing the hcp for that nation only allows player with a hcp better than a certain level to adjust hcp during tournaments. Go figure out how many rounds under par that player probably shot to reach +3 (and do take in to consideration that you adjust your hcp UPWARDS when you are outside the buffer zone for your hcp).

I once read that the difference between hcp 2 and hcp +2 is bigger than the difference between 2 and 36, if playing skills are measured. I tend to agree. If this makes someone feel uncomfortable, so be it. The sad fact is that from the professional golfers perspective, you cant hit a golf ball. You're hackers. Read and weep.

Seems to be you think you're the only guy who has ever played with a pro . Overall I agree with your sentiments - but disagree about the Challenge Tour/Asian Tour comparison, the guys who are scoring well into the 80s playing in some of the Asian backwaters wouldn't even cut it on the Europro/Hooters Tours. Fair play though you can't blame anyone for chasing the dream....

Regarding the handicap situation, and having way too much time on my hands today I've set up a dummy account on ThaiGolfer. I tended to agree with you that if you are playing of +3 or +4 you'd be scoring well under CSS every couple of games or so, however, I've entered 25 fictitious scores into the a/c, only 6 of which were below par and it has come up with a handicap index of +3 ! The only comment I've got on this is it's using the USGA system which would typically give a handicap at a couple of shots lower than CONGU, but it's certainly possible that someone could have the sort of handicap we're talking about and be breaking par one in every four rounds or so. Here is the link, not sure if you'll be able to view it or not, but the user id is handicaphandicap and password is handicap :

http://www.thaigolfer.com/member/handicap.phtml

[GregTheresaKelly]

As a hacker, I sometimes lose a ball into the water or somewhere else, but the biggest reason for dismissing a golf ball is the wedges. If I play a normal golf course with friends and dont play from the tips I hit a sand wedge or gap wedge to the green on pretty much every other hole. That means I will literary rip the ball to pieces. Here's what it looks like when you hit a sand wedge 120 yards and strike the ball properly.

sand wedge 120 yards there must be some serious de'lofting swing issues going on there???

[Wallaby]

Another thing to remember about handicaps is they differ from country to country.

Now, I'm talking about 5 years ago.

In oz you are handicapped according to the course rating of the day. This also takes into account the aus course rating (acr). One cannot hand a card in unless it is played in a competition, be it members comp or whatever. Social rounds don't count but...........

If you play in NZ it is a different story. ALL cards MUST be handed in. If you play 13 holes in a social game the card must also be handed in. For the remaining holes they give you a score according to your handicap. That is, say if I play off 1 and I play 15 holes and the 18th is rated the hardest hole. I'll be given a par for each remaining hole except for the hardest where I'll be given a bogey.

Further if you play club pennants (match play) there are times where you pick a ball up and give the hole away. You are then credited with a score similar to above but the other play must play the hole out to the best of his ability.

Because of this, it is my belief that a scratch marker in oz is better than a scratch marker in nz. But that's just my opinion. I have no idea of handicapping systems in the rest of the world.

I have played in many pro tournaments. Some courses are more difficult but as a general rule I haven't found the courses to be much different to normal member days. Perhaps the rough is grown longer but that's really about it. NZ open played at the Auckland Golf Club and 3 weeks later I was a pennants game was played. Superintendent set up the course exactly the same as the last day of the NZ Open but then said the greens were slightly faster for the penants.

In Victoria the courses are pretty much left as they are except the greens will get harder and faster by the last day. As I say, some courses can be a bit different but on the whole no, they are pretty much as the members play it. I have also found, much to my delight that it is pretty hard to lose a ball in a tournament when there is a gallery. Hit it in the same spot in social play and you'll more than likely lose it. So there is that advantage. Another is that I find in amateur tournaments you are made to play in worse weather conditions than as a pro. I have had play cancelled on a day in a pro tournament due to water on the course whereas I've had to continue play in worse conditions in amateur events.

Of course I'm only speaking from experience, not as a wannabe groupie.

I think you have far too high an opinion of the average golf pro's ability. When it comes down to it, it's all about short game and putting and the blade doesn't run hot every time you step onto a course. You seem to feel good about saying nearly all golfers in world are hackers when indeed they aren't. You are quite entitled to have a wrong opinion, but then to just state it as fact shows how little you actually know or understand about the game.

You have stated opinions as statements of fact and everyone else is wrong. Yet you have not provided one source to back up anything you have said. Just trolling and baiting. I understand you may get a kick out if but it really does show your delusions.

In your lengthy response I didn't quite see any comment about the need for a handicap to turn pro. I'm sure you'll find a way to entertain everyone.

[kenny999]

As a hacker, I sometimes lose a ball into the water or somewhere else, but the biggest reason for dismissing a golf ball is the wedges. If I play a normal golf course with friends and dont play from the tips I hit a sand wedge or gap wedge to the green on pretty much every other hole. That means I will literary rip the ball to pieces. Here's what it looks like when you hit a sand wedge 120 yards and strike the ball properly.

sand wedge 120 yards there must be some serious de'lofting swing issues going on there???

If I hit my sand wedge perfcect it will go approx 100 yds but I would say normal sand wedge 80 yds..

[Wallaby]

As a hacker, I sometimes lose a ball into the water or somewhere else, but the biggest reason for dismissing a golf ball is the wedges. If I play a normal golf course with friends and dont play from the tips I hit a sand wedge or gap wedge to the green on pretty much every other hole. That means I will literary rip the ball to pieces. Here's what it looks like when you hit a sand wedge 120 yards and strike the ball properly.

sand wedge 120 yards there must be some serious de'lofting swing issues going on there???

I suppose it would depend on the loft. I hit my 56 degree 90 metres with a full swing. I think that's about 97 or so yards. With my 52 degree I hit it just over 100 metres, I suppose about 110 yards. Unless it's downwind I'd have to hit the pitching wedge.

I've never ripped a ball up hitting wedges, must be some serious grooves in his clubs.

[Wallaby]

I've just found out that oz has recently changed the handicapping system, as of May this year it seems. Interesting to note that it only counts the best 10 of 20 rounds in a year and it also counted social games, most likely score on a hole, playing alone etc

Jeez the playing alone thing would be easy to manipulate. No wonder people have lower handicaps these days when you don't even have to play the hole out etc.

Is it true that the US uses this system?

Handicapping.pdf

[Forethat]

sand wedge 120 yards there must be some serious de'lofting swing issues going on there???

I suppose it would depend on the loft. I hit my 56 degree 90 metres with a full swing. I think that's about 97 or so yards. With my 52 degree I hit it just over 100 metres, I suppose about 110 yards. Unless it's downwind I'd have to hit the pitching wedge.

This is simply a matter of how you hit the ball. I can hit sand wedge 60 yards with a full swing as well.

I've never ripped a ball up hitting wedges, must be some serious grooves in his clubs.

Why do you think many professional golfers only play 3-4 holes with each ball...? Some people do it more than others, mostly because of the way they compress the ball at impact.

I play Cleveland stock wedges with conforming grooves. I shred the balls to pieces, but I do that with my irons as well, I play Cleveland CG1 irons. This is what it looks like after I hit 5 shots with my PW. Where do you think the plastics comes from...?

[Forethat]

double post

[Forethat]

I've just found out that oz has recently changed the handicapping system, as of May this year it seems. Interesting to note that it only counts the best 10 of 20 rounds in a year and it also counted social games, most likely score on a hole, playing alone etc

Jeez the playing alone thing would be easy to manipulate. No wonder people have lower handicaps these days when you don't even have to play the hole out etc.

Is it true that the US uses this system?

There are many countries that doesn't allow you to adjust your handicap outside tournament or medal play.

[Forethat]

In your lengthy response I didn't quite see any comment about the need for a handicap to turn pro. I'm sure you'll find a way to entertain everyone.

There is none. Never has been.

[Forethat]

You have stated opinions as statements of fact and everyone else is wrong. Yet you have not provided one source to back up anything you have said. Just trolling and baiting. I understand you may get a kick out if but it really does show your delusions.

On the contrary, I have given you fact and also provided the source. Since my participation in this topic is mostly due to a couple of incorrect statements by kenny999 and yourself a see little reason why I should back anything by providing a source other than in those areas.

I'm sorry, you are wrong; there is no handicap limit required to become a professional golfer, something you have probably figure out by now. As I have have pointed out several times; PGA or any other association are NOT responsible for classifying players as professional or amateurs.

I get the impression you want me to back up my definition of a hacker, and that I cant, that's an opinion.

[Forethat]

You have stated opinions as statements of fact and everyone else is wrong.

I challenge you to show ONE example where I have stated an opinion as fact.

[Forethat]

The player yes but it also proves that the ball is not as important as the manufactures would have you believe!!

To get back on topic, I found this article published in GolfDigest. The author agrees with me that the golfball is very important. He actually goes as far as stating that playing the right golfball could be more important than being fit for the correct golf clubs.

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-equipment/hot-list/hotlist_findingtherightball

[chuckd]

You have stated opinions as statements of fact and everyone else is wrong.

I challenge you to show ONE example where I have stated an opinion as fact.

May I accept the challenge as well?

______________________________________________________

You state this in the immediately preceding post #164:

"I'm sorry, you are wrong; there is no handicap limit required to become a professional golfer, something you have probably figure out by now."

______________________________________________________

To become an active member of the PGA of America, you must pass what is called a Playing Ability Test in order to enter their apprentice program. To pass this test one is required to shoot two rounds on an approved course, generally a one day competition, and to be within 15 shots of the course rating. The PGA says only 20% of total applicants are able to pass this test and the remaining 80% are denied membership in the PGA apprentice program and are not eligible to become professional golfers.

http://www.pgalinks.com/

______________________________________________________

Following are the requirements in order to apply for Q School on the PGA of America tour.

If you are an amateur when you apply, you must have a handicap of two or better.

Facts

To be eligible for a PGA Tour card, you must be 18 years of age by the first round of the first tournament in the season. Unless you are currently playing on the Nationwide Tour or have previously won a PGA tournament, you must earn this card by going to the PGA Qualifying Tournament. If you are an amateur, you must have a handicap index of at least two and must present a handicap card to participate in the tournament. This tournament is often referred to as Q-School or Qualifying School.

Read More: What Are the Requirements for a PGA Tour Card? | GolfLink.com http://www.golflink....ml#ixzz1XnxT3hR

________________________________________________________

In conclusion what these two links prove is in order for an amateur to become a professional golfer in the US, he must have an established handicap of two or less to go to Q School or he must establish a handicap of approximately 6 to enter the PGA Apprentice program.

I apologize for confusing you with facts but that's the way it goes at times.

[Forethat]

You have stated opinions as statements of fact and everyone else is wrong.

I challenge you to show ONE example where I have stated an opinion as fact.

May I accept the challenge as well?

______________________________________________________

You state this in the immediately preceding post #164:

"I'm sorry, you are wrong; there is no handicap limit required to become a professional golfer, something you have probably figure out by now."

______________________________________________________

To become an active member of the PGA of America, you must pass what is called a Playing Ability Test in order to enter their apprentice program. To pass this test one is required to shoot two rounds on an approved course, generally a one day competition, and to be within 15 shots of the course rating. The PGA says only 20% of total applicants are able to pass this test and the remaining 80% are denied membership in the PGA apprentice program and are not eligible to become professional golfers.

http://www.pgalinks.com/

______________________________________________________

Following are the requirements in order to apply for Q School on the PGA of America tour.

If you are an amateur when you apply, you must have a handicap of two or better.

Facts

To be eligible for a PGA Tour card, you must be 18 years of age by the first round of the first tournament in the season. Unless you are currently playing on the Nationwide Tour or have previously won a PGA tournament, you must earn this card by going to the PGA Qualifying Tournament. If you are an amateur, you must have a handicap index of at least two and must present a handicap card to participate in the tournament. This tournament is often referred to as Q-School or Qualifying School.

Read More: What Are the Requirements for a PGA Tour Card? | GolfLink.com http://www.golflink....ml#ixzz1XnxT3hR

________________________________________________________

In conclusion what these two links prove is in order for an amateur to become a professional golfer in the US, he must have an established handicap of two or less to go to Q School or he must establish a handicap of approximately 6 to enter the PGA Apprentice program.

I apologize for confusing you with facts but that's the way it goes at times.

There is no requirement or handicap limit to become a professional golfer. I have stated this before and I have also referred to the source of this. Becoming a member of PGA is a different thing, but it doesn't have anything to do with becoming a professional golfer.

A slightly humorous question would be if all the female professional golfers are in fact not professional? From what I understand not a single one of them are members of PGA.

Comments...?

[Forethat]

chuckd, you dont understand the difference between the definition of a professional golfer and being a member of an association, do you...?

[chuckd]

chuckd, you dont understand the difference between the definition of a professional golfer and being a member of an association, do you...?

Why don't you spell it out for us.

[Forethat]

Forethat, you are playing the semantics game. Losing one's amateur status does not make you a professional golfer, in the accepted sense of the term. If an amateur golfer makes a hole-in-one during an amateur tournament and accepts the car on offer at the hole, he simply loses his amateur status and is no longer permitted to further participate in amateur tournaments as an amateur. He, however, cannot simply show up at a professional tournament and tee it up. He is, therefore, not a professional golfer in the accepted sense. He is, very simply put, no longer an Amateur.

Of course you can, there are plenty of tournaments where you can do exactly this. They wouldn't be sanctioned by PGA, though. But as I said, PGA is not a body responsible for the definition of a professional golfer, it's an association.

And for your information, I am NOT playing the semantics game. Unfrtunately that cant be said for Wallaby. He has stated that he "turned pro" and that there was a a handicap limit of 4. This is incorrect. He didn't "turn pro". If I understand it correctly he signed up for a trainee program to become a teaching professional. The program was hosted by PGA of Australia. PGA of Australia may have a handicap limit for their members (so do almost all PGA subsidiaries), but they don't govern who can become a professional golfer. Wallaby changed his terminology at one point to "club pro", something I interpret as the point where he realized that he was wrong.

[chuckd]

I challenge you to show ONE example where I have stated an opinion as fact.

May I accept the challenge as well?

______________________________________________________

You state this in the immediately preceding post #164:

"I'm sorry, you are wrong; there is no handicap limit required to become a professional golfer, something you have probably figure out by now."

______________________________________________________

To become an active member of the PGA of America, you must pass what is called a Playing Ability Test in order to enter their apprentice program. To pass this test one is required to shoot two rounds on an approved course, generally a one day competition, and to be within 15 shots of the course rating. The PGA says only 20% of total applicants are able to pass this test and the remaining 80% are denied membership in the PGA apprentice program and are not eligible to become professional golfers.

http://www.pgalinks.com/

______________________________________________________

Following are the requirements in order to apply for Q School on the PGA of America tour.

If you are an amateur when you apply, you must have a handicap of two or better.

Facts

To be eligible for a PGA Tour card, you must be 18 years of age by the first round of the first tournament in the season. Unless you are currently playing on the Nationwide Tour or have previously won a PGA tournament, you must earn this card by going to the PGA Qualifying Tournament. If you are an amateur, you must have a handicap index of at least two and must present a handicap card to participate in the tournament. This tournament is often referred to as Q-School or Qualifying School.

Read More: What Are the Requirements for a PGA Tour Card? | GolfLink.com http://www.golflink....ml#ixzz1XnxT3hR

________________________________________________________

In conclusion what these two links prove is in order for an amateur to become a professional golfer in the US, he must have an established handicap of two or less to go to Q School or he must establish a handicap of approximately 6 to enter the PGA Apprentice program.

I apologize for confusing you with facts but that's the way it goes at times.

There is no requirement or handicap limit to become a professional golfer. I have stated this before and I have also referred to the source of this. Becoming a member of PGA is a different thing, but it doesn't have anything to do with becoming a professional golfer.

A slightly humorous question would be if all the female professional golfers are in fact not professional? From what I understand not a single one of them are members of PGA.

Comments...?

Have you ever heard of the LPGA?

[Forethat]

chuckd, you dont understand the difference between the definition of a professional golfer and being a member of an association, do you...?

Why don't you spell it out for us.

I think it's an insult to posters when someone enters a thread and asks for information that has already been provided in clear text.

[Forethat]

I challenge you to show ONE example where I have stated an opinion as fact.

May I accept the challenge as well?

______________________________________________________

You state this in the immediately preceding post #164:

"I'm sorry, you are wrong; there is no handicap limit required to become a professional golfer, something you have probably figure out by now."

______________________________________________________

To become an active member of the PGA of America, you must pass what is called a Playing Ability Test in order to enter their apprentice program. To pass this test one is required to shoot two rounds on an approved course, generally a one day competition, and to be within 15 shots of the course rating. The PGA says only 20% of total applicants are able to pass this test and the remaining 80% are denied membership in the PGA apprentice program and are not eligible to become professional golfers.

http://www.pgalinks.com/

______________________________________________________

Following are the requirements in order to apply for Q School on the PGA of America tour.

If you are an amateur when you apply, you must have a handicap of two or better.

Facts

To be eligible for a PGA Tour card, you must be 18 years of age by the first round of the first tournament in the season. Unless you are currently playing on the Nationwide Tour or have previously won a PGA tournament, you must earn this card by going to the PGA Qualifying Tournament. If you are an amateur, you must have a handicap index of at least two and must present a handicap card to participate in the tournament. This tournament is often referred to as Q-School or Qualifying School.

Read More: What Are the Requirements for a PGA Tour Card? | GolfLink.com http://www.golflink....ml#ixzz1XnxT3hR

________________________________________________________

In conclusion what these two links prove is in order for an amateur to become a professional golfer in the US, he must have an established handicap of two or less to go to Q School or he must establish a handicap of approximately 6 to enter the PGA Apprentice program.

I apologize for confusing you with facts but that's the way it goes at times.

There is no requirement or handicap limit to become a professional golfer. I have stated this before and I have also referred to the source of this. Becoming a member of PGA is a different thing, but it doesn't have anything to do with becoming a professional golfer.

A slightly humorous question would be if all the female professional golfers are in fact not professional? From what I understand not a single one of them are members of PGA.

Comments...?

Have you ever heard of the LPGA?

Ehhh, yes. And if you would be so kind and actually READ my previous posts in this matter you will find that I have already mentioned LPGA, PGA, LDA and a handful if other associations for professional golfers. My point is that you dont have to be a member of PGA to be a professional golfer. You dont have to a member of any of them. The definition is not reliant on the membership in an association.

What is it about this you struggle to understand, really...?

[chuckd]

Forethat, you are playing the semantics game. Losing one's amateur status does not make you a professional golfer, in the accepted sense of the term. If an amateur golfer makes a hole-in-one during an amateur tournament and accepts the car on offer at the hole, he simply loses his amateur status and is no longer permitted to further participate in amateur tournaments as an amateur. He, however, cannot simply show up at a professional tournament and tee it up. He is, therefore, not a professional golfer in the accepted sense. He is, very simply put, no longer an Amateur.

Of course you can, there are plenty of tournaments where you can do exactly this. They wouldn't be sanctioned by PGA, though. But as I said, PGA is not a body responsible for the definition of a professional golfer, it's an association.

And for your information, I am NOT playing the semantics game. Unfrtunately that cant be said for Wallaby. He has stated that he "turned pro" and that there was a a handicap limit of 4. This is incorrect. He didn't "turn pro". If I understand it correctly he signed up for a trainee program to become a teaching professional. The program was hosted by PGA of Australia. PGA of Australia may have a handicap limit for their members (so do almost all PGA subsidiaries), but they don't govern who can become a professional golfer. Wallaby changed his terminology at one point to "club pro", something I interpret as the point where he realized that he was wrong.

Please provide some proof of tournaments where just anybody showed up to play a professional tournament and was allowed to simply tee it up and let 'er rip.

You have your links wrong. I made the post you quoted, not Wallaby.

[chuckd]

chuckd, you dont understand the difference between the definition of a professional golfer and being a member of an association, do you...?

Why don't you spell it out for us.

I think it's an insult to posters when someone enters a thread and asks for information that has already been provided in clear text.

Consider yourself insulted if that is all it takes. Now, why not humor me and try again.

[Forethat]

Forethat, you are playing the semantics game. Losing one's amateur status does not make you a professional golfer, in the accepted sense of the term. If an amateur golfer makes a hole-in-one during an amateur tournament and accepts the car on offer at the hole, he simply loses his amateur status and is no longer permitted to further participate in amateur tournaments as an amateur. He, however, cannot simply show up at a professional tournament and tee it up. He is, therefore, not a professional golfer in the accepted sense. He is, very simply put, no longer an Amateur.

Of course you can, there are plenty of tournaments where you can do exactly this. They wouldn't be sanctioned by PGA, though. But as I said, PGA is not a body responsible for the definition of a professional golfer, it's an association.

And for your information, I am NOT playing the semantics game. Unfrtunately that cant be said for Wallaby. He has stated that he "turned pro" and that there was a a handicap limit of 4. This is incorrect. He didn't "turn pro". If I understand it correctly he signed up for a trainee program to become a teaching professional. The program was hosted by PGA of Australia. PGA of Australia may have a handicap limit for their members (so do almost all PGA subsidiaries), but they don't govern who can become a professional golfer. Wallaby changed his terminology at one point to "club pro", something I interpret as the point where he realized that he was wrong.

Please provide some proof of tournaments where just anybody showed up to play a professional tournament and was allowed to simply tee it up and let 'er rip.

You have your links wrong. I made the post you quoted, not Wallaby.

lol, are you for real!?

Pay the membership fee and tee up for an entire tour.

http://www.nationalprotour.com/leagues/custom_page.cfm?clientID=4941&leagueID=17754&pageID=9568

I say it again and PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING:

YOU DONT HAVE TO BE A MEMBER OF PGA TO BE A PROFESSIONAL GOLFER - IS IT SINKING IN!!?!?!?

[Forethat]

Guess what!? I think it finally sank in!!!

[Forethat]

Good Lord, who ARE these people....

[Wallaby]

Your own link is saying you have to have a handicap.

Professional golfers with a single digit handicap above 4.0 or a scoring average of 75 and above will be eligible to play in the Developmental Division. And

Professional golfers with a single digit handicap that have reached the age of 50 may compete in the Masters Division. Master Division members are eligible to play in any Local Tour tournament. They may play in any Regional Major tournament for which they are qualified upon submission of the full entry fee.

Chuckd, I don't think one should waste more time on people that have absolutely no idea of the game. Playing golf from an early age usually teaches people about manners, among other things, and any player worth his salt would not refer to good players as hackers, especially if they are one themselves. Not one person I know would refer to a person who bogeys every hole as a hacker. Well now I know of one.

We have repeatedly proven he is wrong and he just won't accept it. Some people are just like that. I prefer to be around positive people who are happy just to be out playing the game. But we all know every club has an oddball who thinks he knows everything. Those that talk the loudest, understand the least.