Thailand Releases Sex Study

[OzMick]

Yes very easy to sieze on the negative and elevate to the fore, I have seen first hand the benefit of extended family in close proximity, my wife had over 15 aunts and uncles ( I've lost count after 15) take into account their wives/husbands/children, and the majority lived in a 20 mile radius, most in ajoining villages, we meet them all regularly, one of the reasons my children will spend their younger years in rural Thailand enjoying playing outside having the freedom to roam. They can make the decision to move into the relative solitude and independance of the city when they wish to do so.............

Perhaps you would care to explain how you come to be surrounded by disfunctional families in Thailand?

... 473geo ... you ask me to "explain how you come to be surrounded by disfunctional (sic) families in Thailand?" ... well, sure, professor ... I guess I can do that ... but, I warn you, while I love your enthusiasm, my experiences here do not rise to the idyllic standard of Thai family values you try to defend ... (on this thread, it seems I am not entirely alone on this point).

... I adopted and am raising four abandoned Thai children (not orphaned Thai children, to be distinct) ... their stories are all equally sad ... making lifelong commitments as this does not happen arbitrarily, nor do I make them lightly ... I lived quite up-close and personal in Thailand for a decade before arriving at a point of commitment.

... you can get no better a close-up view of dysfunctional Thai families (or, the human wreckage they cause), by volunteering at Mercy Centre, the Klongtoey orphanage run by Father Joe Maier, or any number of others (all will gratefully accept whatever time you can offer, if you really care to get close to it) ... follow the history of any one of these children back to their homes ... from there, reach out into the surrounding communities from which these abandoned children come ... as doubtful as their prospects for full and joyful lives are, many of the children living in Thai orphanages are the lucky ones ... even though they have living mothers and fathers.

... I've taken but four into my life ... there are countless more for whom escape is impossible.

... and, one more thing ... let me be real clear about this, smart-ass ... I do not need "to sieze (sic) on the negative and elevate to the fore" to validate myself, what I do, or the obvious despair with which I and other volunteers deal and many Thais endure here ... your presumptuous, vacuous accusation is offensive and pisses me off ... keep that smug, self-indulgent crap for the lectern, professor.

Good on you mate, I wish you the best of luck. I tried something similar and got singed, if not badly burnt. It amazes me some people look at this place like it is some kind of fairy tale (guess who the handsome prince is?)

In my wife's village the family men (all with clan tattoo) were holding their regular beer session, and discussing (nameless and assumed family member) man who had come home drunk and raped his daughter AGAIN (I got that bit quite clear). I talked about it with wife later, girl was sub-teen, and possibly to be moved to an aunt's house - police NOT an option.

In Samui a restaurant had a birthday party for one of the waitresses, beautiful but tiny girl turning 18. Her son was there, he's 5+ (I'm not good on Thai months). You don't need calculus to work out she was very young at conception, with a high chance of incest.

Nearly all the my bar-girl friends (strictly "puen") have at least one child that they work to support, the father having left for parts unknown. Mum on the game 1000km away, what's a dad, living with granny - the Thai version of "The Nelsons" or some similar tripe.

[Dag]

With the words 'recently' and 'in the last 5 years'.....think this survey is somewhat still behind the times and needs catching up.

[Orac]

The surprising figure here to me is the 1.5 children per mother which seems extremely low to me.

On the basis that to qualify as a mother you must have at least one child this figure implies that a significant majority of mothers only have the one. This is certainly not the impression I got when I was living in NE Thailand.

[evanson]

A nation is only as strong as its families. If Thailand follows the bad example of Western nations, they will suffer the same consequences of social decay.

Yes, if Western societies adhered to the mia-noi and village brothel culture like Thailand, the Western social decay would be far less.

You don't have a clue, do you? So having mistresses (what an old fashioned word) and visiting Western brothels (yes, they exist ...), were to lead to 'less social (odd and inappropriate term) decay', then why hasn't it?

[givenall]

A nation is only as strong as its families. If Thailand follows the bad example of Western nations, they will suffer the same consequences of social decay.

[kraplung]

A nation is only as strong as its families. If Thailand follows the bad example of Western nations, they will suffer the same consequences of social decay.

There is a lot of truth in his words........which part do you find amusing?

All civilisations which have worked have been built around the basis of the nuclear family. It's not for everyone I admit but without it you end up with something like Pattaya.

Edited September 10, 2011 by kraplung

[kerryk]

A nation is only as strong as its families. If Thailand follows the bad example of Western nations, they will suffer the same consequences of social decay.

There is a lot of truth in his words........which part do you find amusing?

All civilisations which have worked have been built around the basis of the nuclear family. It's not for everyone I admit but without it you end up with something like Pattaya.

Wiki, The concept that a narrowly defined nuclear family is central to stability in modern society has been promoted by modern social conservatives in the United States, and has been challenged as historically and sociologically inadequate to describe the complexity of actual family relations.

Back to the old drawing board Kraplung. Maybe a short course in cultural anthropology would be in order.

[kerryk]

A nation is only as strong as its families. If Thailand follows the bad example of Western nations, they will suffer the same consequences of social decay.

Yes, if Western societies adhered to the mia-noi and village brothel culture like Thailand, the Western social decay would be far less.

You don't have a clue, do you? So having mistresses (what an old fashioned word) and visiting Western brothels (yes, they exist ...), were to lead to 'less social (odd and inappropriate term) decay', then why hasn't it?

I am clueless on your post. Are you saying that the West has village brothels and Mia nois?

[kraplung]

@ Kerryk................. I guess an old culture vulture like you will have to stick with Pattaya!

[tmwke]

A nation is only as strong as its families. If Thailand follows the bad example of Western nations, they will suffer the same consequences of social decay.

I actually thought that Thailand was the Hub of social decay. I believe the head office is situated in a little place called Pattaya.

Wrong ! the head office is situated in Bangkok.

[473geo]

... garycm might be a bit rougher than I am, who is merely cynical (see my comments above) ... but, garycm might have the advantage of an upclose view of Thai family behaviors that jkolak does not ... while I view jkolak's view as naieve, I do not find it so much amusing as garycm ... but, I do get from where garycm is coming ... definately.

Yes very easy to sieze on the negative and elevate to the fore, I have seen first hand the benefit of extended family in close proximity, my wife had over 15 aunts and uncles ( I've lost count after 15) take into account their wives/husbands/children, and the majority lived in a 20 mile radius, most in ajoining villages, we meet them all regularly, one of the reasons my children will spend their younger years in rural Thailand enjoying playing outside having the freedom to roam. They can make the decision to move into the relative solitude and independance of the city when they wish to do so.............

Perhaps you would care to explain how you come to be surrounded by disfunctional families in Thailand?

... 473geo ... you ask me to "explain how you come to be surrounded by disfunctional (sic) families in Thailand?" ... well, sure, professor ... I guess I can do that ... but, I warn you, while I love your enthusiasm, my experiences here do not rise to the idyllic standard of Thai family values you try to defend ... (on this thread, it seems I am not entirely alone on this point).

... I adopted and am raising four abandoned Thai children (not orphaned Thai children, to be distinct) ... their stories are all equally sad ... making lifelong commitments as this does not happen arbitrarily, nor do I make them lightly ... I lived quite up-close and personal in Thailand for a decade before arriving at a point of commitment.

... you can get no better a close-up view of dysfunctional Thai families (or, the human wreckage they cause), by volunteering at Mercy Centre, the Klongtoey orphanage run by Father Joe Maier, or any number of others (all will gratefully accept whatever time you can offer, if you really care to get close to it) ... follow the history of any one of these children back to their homes ... from there, reach out into the surrounding communities from which these abandoned children come ... as doubtful as their prospects for full and joyful lives are, many of the children living in Thai orphanages are the lucky ones ... even though they have living mothers and fathers.

... I've taken but four into my life ... there are countless more for whom escape is impossible.

... and, one more thing ... let me be real clear about this, smart-ass ... I do not need "to sieze (sic) on the negative and elevate to the fore" to validate myself, what I do, or the obvious despair with which I and other volunteers deal and many Thais endure here ... your presumptuous, vacuous accusation is offensive and pisses me off ... keep that smug, self-indulgent crap for the lectern, professor.

Well you answered the question.....you choose to be part of what you are, nothing wrong with that .........you have accepted the responsibilty of raising children who are not your own......credit due to you, and those that make life easier for the little chaps........it should not however escape you that there are others out there who contribute in their own small way.........and still have the ability to realise that while there are issues regarding some sides of family life in Thailand, there is also the other side of the coin where the family unit is strong,supportive, and provide exactly the same environment as I expect you would hope to provide for your 4 children.......

[geriatrickid]

A nation is only as strong as its families. If Thailand follows the bad example of Western nations, they will suffer the same consequences of social decay.

Too late...the decay is so bad already no dentist in his mind would touch this place.....

An exagerated myth that keeps getting repeated and repeated. On the contrary, many western nations have made tremendous progress in maintianing and helping families in the face of difficult times. Look at the history of families in the west. Time was when;

- Women were considered chattel and treated as such.

- It was once considered ok to beat the crap out of kids or spouses.

- There was no daycare, no early education. Children were often left unattended to roam the streets or worse to be left at home given some gn and put to bed. People think we have a gang problem now, but they don't take into consideration that back in the 1800's homeless kids were running willd in the city streets of Europe and North America, often ending up on the gallows before the age of 15.

- There were no social services directed for the elderly such as drop in centers or social clubs.

-People with disabilities were once abandoned. Now western societies make an effort an attempt to remove accessibility barriers such as the introduction of user friendly washrooms, sidewalks, ramps, public transit etc. Disabled kids are not thrown into grim holding centers.

- There were no tax credits and family allowances built into western tax systems.

- Families with problems were on their own. Now there are social services to help.

- Molestors and rapists could get away with it. Now they have a chance of getting caught and stopped.

- There were no sports facilities, no accessible musuems or libraries.

- Back in the good old days, kids died young, often through neglect, or malnutrition, or through preventable illness. Western societies have done an incredible job at reducing infant mortality and reducing the mortality rates of youth.

Older folks have a tendancy of saying things were so much better back when they were kids. I disagree. Tremendous progress has been made over the past century. yes, there have been a few blips, but when I look at the madness of the 1960's of the riots in Paris, Detroit, Los Angeles and the urban violence of homegrown terrorist groups of the 70's such as the Beder meinhoff or Red Guard or Weather Underground etc. I know that no matter how much people moan and groan, the family units are stronger today then back then. The reality is that things are out in the open now to be discussed and dealt with. Back in the good old days, everything was hushed up, and hidden. Thailand is making the same transition, moving from denying and covering up to confronting and addressing.

Things will get better. If they don't then it is up to you to make them better, one good deed or random act of kindness at a time.

[ludditeman]

An exagerated myth that keeps getting repeated and repeated. On the contrary, many western nations have made tremendous progress in maintianing and helping families in the face of difficult times. Look at the history of families in the west. Time was when;

- Women were considered chattel and treated as such.

- It was once considered ok to beat the crap out of kids or spouses.

- There was no daycare, no early education. Children were often left unattended to roam the streets or worse to be left at home given some gn and put to bed. People think we have a gang problem now, but they don't take into consideration that back in the 1800's homeless kids were running willd in the city streets of Europe and North America, often ending up on the gallows before the age of 15.

- There were no social services directed for the elderly such as drop in centers or social clubs.

-People with disabilities were once abandoned. Now western societies make an effort an attempt to remove accessibility barriers such as the introduction of user friendly washrooms, sidewalks, ramps, public transit etc. Disabled kids are not thrown into grim holding centers.

- There were no tax credits and family allowances built into western tax systems.

- Families with problems were on their own. Now there are social services to help.

- Molestors and rapists could get away with it. Now they have a chance of getting caught and stopped.

- There were no sports facilities, no accessible musuems or libraries.

- Back in the good old days, kids died young, often through neglect, or malnutrition, or through preventable illness. Western societies have done an incredible job at reducing infant mortality and reducing the mortality rates of youth.

Older folks have a tendancy of saying things were so much better back when they were kids. I disagree. Tremendous progress has been made over the past century. yes, there have been a few blips, but when I look at the madness of the 1960's of the riots in Paris, Detroit, Los Angeles and the urban violence of homegrown terrorist groups of the 70's such as the Beder meinhoff or Red Guard or Weather Underground etc. I know that no matter how much people moan and groan, the family units are stronger today then back then. The reality is that things are out in the open now to be discussed and dealt with. Back in the good old days, everything was hushed up, and hidden. Thailand is making the same transition, moving from denying and covering up to confronting and addressing.

Things will get better. If they don't then it is up to you to make them better, one good deed or random act of kindness at a time.

Most of the items you class as progress, I class as moral decay in decadent western society.

Feminism, Social services, welfare, day care have all added to social problems and probably brought about the rioting in the UK this year.

If family units are stronger now, why do 50% of western marriages end in divorce?

If family units are stronger now, why after divorce, do so many western women use their children as a weapon to oppress the children's fathers?

In some cases 'hushed up and hidden' is for the general good.

Barder Meinhoff and the Red Army Faction were minor inconveniences compared to modern Muslim terrorism. As were the Red Bigade in Italy and the IRA in Ireland. Some people even believe those movements were blows for freedom against oppressive governments.

Edited September 10, 2011 by ludditeman

[kerryk]

@ Kerryk................. I guess an old culture vulture like you will have to stick with Pattaya!

Sorry I don't mean to ignore you but I don't know what a culture vulture is and I don't live in Pattaya. I live in a small town in Thailand and have for quite some time.

I merely posted because your statement about the nuclear family was in error. Had you said extended family it might have been defensible.

Pattaya is a workplace that supports thousands of extended families in Thailand.

[kerryk]

A nation is only as strong as its families. If Thailand follows the bad example of Western nations, they will suffer the same consequences of social decay.

Too late...the decay is so bad already no dentist in his mind would touch this place.....

An exagerated myth that keeps getting repeated and repeated. On the contrary, many western nations have made tremendous progress in maintianing and helping families in the face of difficult times. Look at the history of families in the west. Time was when;

- Women were considered chattel and treated as such.

- It was once considered ok to beat the crap out of kids or spouses.

- There was no daycare, no early education. Children were often left unattended to roam the streets or worse to be left at home given some gn and put to bed. People think we have a gang problem now, but they don't take into consideration that back in the 1800's homeless kids were running willd in the city streets of Europe and North America, often ending up on the gallows before the age of 15.

- There were no social services directed for the elderly such as drop in centers or social clubs.

-People with disabilities were once abandoned. Now western societies make an effort an attempt to remove accessibility barriers such as the introduction of user friendly washrooms, sidewalks, ramps, public transit etc. Disabled kids are not thrown into grim holding centers.

- There were no tax credits and family allowances built into western tax systems.

- Families with problems were on their own. Now there are social services to help.

- Molestors and rapists could get away with it. Now they have a chance of getting caught and stopped.

- There were no sports facilities, no accessible musuems or libraries.

- Back in the good old days, kids died young, often through neglect, or malnutrition, or through preventable illness. Western societies have done an incredible job at reducing infant mortality and reducing the mortality rates of youth.

Older folks have a tendancy of saying things were so much better back when they were kids. I disagree. Tremendous progress has been made over the past century. yes, there have been a few blips, but when I look at the madness of the 1960's of the riots in Paris, Detroit, Los Angeles and the urban violence of homegrown terrorist groups of the 70's such as the Beder meinhoff or Red Guard or Weather Underground etc. I know that no matter how much people moan and groan, the family units are stronger today then back then. The reality is that things are out in the open now to be discussed and dealt with. Back in the good old days, everything was hushed up, and hidden. Thailand is making the same transition, moving from denying and covering up to confronting and addressing.

Things will get better. If they don't then it is up to you to make them better, one good deed or random act of kindness at a time.

Compare America in the 1950's and America today.

Single parent homes, unemployment, starvation, violent crime, prison population, divorce rate, homeless people, drug addiction, children born out of wedlock to name a few.

Walk down almost any city in America in 1950 and today and tell me which time period you felt safer. Roads, bridges and general infrastructure was better in the 1950's. I am sure others can fill in more gaps in the differences.

[OzMick]

Compare America in the 1950's and America today.

Single parent homes, unemployment, starvation, violent crime, prison population, divorce rate, homeless people, drug addiction, children born out of wedlock to name a few.

Walk down almost any city in America in 1950 and today and tell me which time period you felt safer. Roads, bridges and general infrastructure was better in the 1950's. I am sure others can fill in more gaps in the differences.

Not being an American, I'm probably not qualified to comment. But I do have a feeling that those not white, male, Protestant Christian, and heterosexual may have some rather different views on the subject.

BTW WWII and Korea did wonders for unemployment. But those that came back a bit worse for wear would probably appreciate 21st century medicine.

[Misterwhisper]

"Earlier, sexual services were provided only at brothels but recently have been infiltrating in other entertainment places such as bars, karaoke, restaurants, massage parlours, traditional Thai massage houses or even in dormitories and hair salons."

Recently? What has this "research institute" been doing all those years?

[tommyboy928]

Following a well worn path, interesting that in one of the comments 'recently' must cover at least the last 30 years, but I guess in the history of Thailand 30 years is recently.

I personally feel the drop in large families is an area of concern, the crucial factor is the fragmentation of families, migration to find suitable employment destroys the security offered by the larger family. Having experienced the supportive actions of a large Thai family first hand, I never fail to be impressed by their ability to come up with a solution to whatever issue arises. Yes, due to modern communication this support and love spans the distances, just not quite the same as living next door

Of course the grandparents living in the cities may also be working, much less in the rural communities where family childcare is more readily available

The answer in part is to reverse the migration to the cities.....create a thriving rural economy to encourage the family unit to develop and remain for the most part where family support is readily available....easier said than done unfortunately

Here in Patong i only hear from girls, need send money to mama and papa, so looks like they like take care of family)))

[moe666]

Compare America to the 50s and now. Well there is no comparison. I grew up in a small west Texas farm town. Most people where poor, my father made one dollar an hour, my mom made 33 dollars a week. If you where young and wanted to earn money the only job was paper boy and sacker unless you father owned his business. Housing was shoddy at best unless you where upper middle class. Everyone knew about the molestor but only told you not to go to Mr. So and So house, a few gays cruised the bus station. There where seperate drinking fountains, restrooms and entrances to restrurants for blacks, some restrurants didn't allow blacks.

There where extended families with grandma and grandpa living with their children. Families where disfunctional, with beatings, and incest. One of our neighbors would get drunk and found it fun to drag his wife down the street by her hair, both the son and daughter developed into alcholics as adults.

The highways where all 2 lane with narrow unsafe bridges, the interstate highway syatem hadn't been started yet. Most towns had signs letting you know the water was safe to drink a few didn't.. The hoeless where called bums and tramps and stayed on skidrow.

I joined the navy in 1962 tried one time to go back not much had changed. I will take today over yesterday as my life is better in so many ways, Yea there were problems but when were there no problems. Your life is what you make it not waiting for something to get better or to change.

Edited September 10, 2011 by moe666

[IsaanAussie]

I live in a small rural village of some 40 houses owned by 4 extended families. There have been many changes to village here over the last ten years caused by the differences in personal expectation levels between the villagers, especially the elderly and the city dwelling offspring. At holidays when the cityites return culturally it is like oil and water, many generations from different times. To a few of the old people everyone who works in the city is a sex worker, just look at their clothes. I see children left in the care of their grand parents who shun their parents as strangers but willing accept the plastic ride on toys and other bits of soon broken junk that litter the place within days. High school age children who have been educated by television and internet are less likely to become the next generation of rice farmers.

What I see is a rural society slowly disappearing. Consumerism, ambition and other pillars of western society never had a place in the village, now they do.

Isaan Aussie

[chaoyang]

Compare America to the 50s and now. Well there is no comparison. I grew up in a small west Texas farm town. Most people where poor, my father made one dollar an hour, my mom made 33 dollars a week. If you where young and wanted to earn money the only job was paper boy and sacker unless you father owned his business. Housing was shoddy at best unless you where upper middle class. Everyone knew about the molestor but only told you not to go to Mr. So and So house, a few gays cruised the bus station. There where seperate drinking fountains, restrooms and entrances to restrurants for blacks, some restrurants didn't allow blacks.

There where extended families with grandma and grandpa living with their children. Families where disfunctional, with beatings, and incest. One of our neighbors would get drunk and found it fun to drag his wife down the street by her hair, both the son and daughter developed into alcholics as adults.

The highways where all 2 lane with narrow unsafe bridges, the interstate highway syatem hadn't been started yet. Most towns had signs letting you know the water was safe to drink a few didn't.. The hoeless where called bums and tramps and stayed on skidrow.

I joined the navy in 1962 tried one time to go back not much had changed. I will take today over yesterday as my life is better in so many ways, Yea there were problems but when were there no problems. Your life is what you make it not waiting for something to get better or to change.

Interesting post. My first recollections are in the very early '60s. My father was never home because he as in the local tavern getting drunk every night -- and I mean never home.

People would throw their trash out the car window, so highways were lined with bottles, can and other trash.

Our home had a small incinerator where would would burn our household trash.

When JFK was killed I recall many thought that was a good thing because he was soft on the commies and a n****-lover. My aunt had a favorite joke about Kennedy, told with a Boston accent:

"Do your job with vigor or you will be replaced by a n******."

Apparently my uncle and cousin had an incestuous relationship that was kept hushed up. I myself was sent to a summer day camp and abused by the pedophile owner.

Ah yes, the good old days.

[elgato]

A nation is only as strong as its families. If Thailand follows the bad example of Western nations, they will suffer the same consequences of social decay.

Oh please!

[jalansanitwong]

A nation is only as strong as its families. If Thailand follows the bad example of Western nations, they will suffer the same consequences of social decay.

You cant possibly be serious ?

[Beetlejuice]

A nation is only as strong as its families. If Thailand follows the bad example of Western nations, they will suffer the same consequences of social decay.

Absolutely agree.

[kerryk]

Compare America to the 50s and now. Well there is no comparison. I grew up in a small west Texas farm town. Most people where poor, my father made one dollar an hour, my mom made 33 dollars a week. If you where young and wanted to earn money the only job was paper boy and sacker unless you father owned his business. Housing was shoddy at best unless you where upper middle class. Everyone knew about the molestor but only told you not to go to Mr. So and So house, a few gays cruised the bus station. There where seperate drinking fountains, restrooms and entrances to restrurants for blacks, some restrurants didn't allow blacks.

There where extended families with grandma and grandpa living with their children. Families where disfunctional, with beatings, and incest. One of our neighbors would get drunk and found it fun to drag his wife down the street by her hair, both the son and daughter developed into alcholics as adults.

The highways where all 2 lane with narrow unsafe bridges, the interstate highway syatem hadn't been started yet. Most towns had signs letting you know the water was safe to drink a few didn't.. The hoeless where called bums and tramps and stayed on skidrow.

I joined the navy in 1962 tried one time to go back not much had changed. I will take today over yesterday as my life is better in so many ways, Yea there were problems but when were there no problems. Your life is what you make it not waiting for something to get better or to change.

Interesting post. My first recollections are in the very early '60s. My father was never home because he as in the local tavern getting drunk every night -- and I mean never home.

People would throw their trash out the car window, so highways were lined with bottles, can and other trash.

Our home had a small incinerator where would would burn our household trash.

When JFK was killed I recall many thought that was a good thing because he was soft on the commies and a n****-lover. My aunt had a favorite joke about Kennedy, told with a Boston accent:

"Do your job with vigor or you will be replaced by a n******."

Apparently my uncle and cousin had an incestuous relationship that was kept hushed up. I myself was sent to a summer day camp and abused by the pedophile owner.

Ah yes, the good old days.

Thank you gentlemen that was a very interesting comparison. Quite a bit different than my own recollections. We had two large homes, one in the city and the summer home on a lake where the entire extended family gathered during my summer holidays. The men took the steam locomotive train up on Friday nights. They were in the bag after an 8 hour ride in the club car when they arrived. Brothers and fathers from both sides of the family working as engineers in automotive factories. They all made it through the big war and were reaping the profits of the Korean conflict with equipment paid for by WWII.

Racial conflicts were something I read about but never saw except for occasional trips for spring break through the mountains of West Virgina and running the gauntlet of fake traffic stops when driving through Georgia on the way to Florida. Triple A would map a route with the speed traps highlighted in red.

Gas was so cheap it almost felt free and driving anywhere in the North East was a breeze. The expressways and freeways were all new. I remember driving a Mercedes gull-wing coupe 160 MPH within the Detroit city limits.

Ocean liners were still a viable means of getting to Europe and the Queen Mary was going strong. We traveled a lot as my father was setting up factories with licensed American technology in England, Germany and Singapore. I'd been around the world twice by the time I was 21, satisfied I knew it all and happy with America.

My family had no old money. They were mechanical engineers who knew a lot about machine tools in an era when everybody wanted machine tools and technical expertise. They hunted and fished on the weekends and everyone owned their own homes. All the kids went to college and to church on Sundays and the family all gathered to eat after church, three generations at the dinner table every Sunday. The men drank whiskey, smoked cigars and listened to baseball on the radio.

[chaoyang]

Growing up in the early '60s also had some benefits though. First of all, none we kids had any sense of entitlement -- we knew in life we would have to work to hard make it, but the opportunities were enormous. But before working age, I spent my time in the fields and countryside, catching crawdads and frogs, and exploring nature. Today I still have a great love of animals.

Though my father was a drunk, he worked hard and was starting to make his way with a young family after the Korean War. We had our own home financed through the GI Bill, and a new car every two years.

Schools were strict and the teachers well qualified because in that area at that time most youngsters would only get a high school education, so it was taken seriously indeed. I was among the perhaps 20 percent (at most) that went on to college.

The PE classes were brutal, but we were sure in good physical shape. I was also able to take auto mechanics, metal shop and woodworking, just enough of that to have some fundamental skills that would serve me well in daily life. I could fix a car or repair the kitchen tap.

But there were the dark sides as alluded to. One girlfriend of mine's father worked at the Rocky Flats Nuclear Weapons plant north of Denver. He sometimes came home covered in sores after being scrubbed down following a leak. Not too far away in Nevada they were blowing off nuclear weapons above ground -- as many as 30 in two weeks at one point. In all they blew off about 100 above ground, it was revealed much later..

But things did seem freer and more full of possibilities then, but perhaps that's the recollection of an aging man.

Edited September 11, 2011 by chaoyang

[473geo]

I live in a small rural village of some 40 houses owned by 4 extended families. There have been many changes to village here over the last ten years caused by the differences in personal expectation levels between the villagers, especially the elderly and the city dwelling offspring. At holidays when the cityites return culturally it is like oil and water, many generations from different times. To a few of the old people everyone who works in the city is a sex worker, just look at their clothes. I see children left in the care of their grand parents who shun their parents as strangers but willing accept the plastic ride on toys and other bits of soon broken junk that litter the place within days. High school age children who have been educated by television and internet are less likely to become the next generation of rice farmers.

What I see is a rural society slowly disappearing. Consumerism, ambition and other pillars of western society never had a place in the village, now they do.

Isaan Aussie

I also see many people improving their living conditions too, there is barely a house in the area now that is not upgraded on an annual basis, concrete roads replace dirt tracks, there are positives. The rural area I see is adapting to inevitable change resulting from consumerism and communication links/TV etc. There is another major change I notice, less drinking.....I guess having alternative priorities on offer does assist in this area....of course there are some who will never change their habits and continue to stagger towards an early grave.......

There was never any question that TV/internet and consumerism would come, the question is how well the Thai will deal with the change, I would suggest a larger family unit that can split their resource between the city and the farm will probably make the transition ok. I see a change in rural society, but I am not sure I would describe it as decline, although agree there is a noticeable void created by the exodus of teenagers and young couples, as you point the return of the younger family members at holiday times highlights this imbalance, but I guess in most countries in modern times the young fly the nest to university.....how many from rural areas actually return and take up employment and permanent residence?

[ludditeman]

The major difference in 'family values' between Western and Asian families to me appears

In the west, parents sacrifice for their children, and in return are often 'discarded' when they become old or infirm.

In Asia, children sacrifice for their parents, and tend to look after them until they die.

But today in all societies people are becoming more selfish,

In the west caring less about their children

In Asia caring less about their parents.

I suspect in the near future it will totally be about 'me' and what I want, and to hell with everyone else.

Western and Asian culture will meet in the middle.

[473geo]

The major difference in 'family values' between Western and Asian families to me appears

In the west, parents sacrifice for their children, and in return are often 'discarded' when they become old or infirm.

In Asia, children sacrifice for their parents, and tend to look after them until they die.

But today in all societies people are becoming more selfish,

In the west caring less about their children

In Asia caring less about their parents.

I suspect in the near future it will totally be about 'me' and what I want, and to hell with everyone else.

Western and Asian culture will meet in the middle.

This is where I feel the larger family carries benefits, from day one it cannot be just about me...........however I can see how your thoughts would easily materialise in the more 'compact' family unit