Move To Seek Royal Pardon For Ex-PM Thaksin Faces Protest

[Buchholz]

I predict if by some crooked means, Yingluck's government pardons Thaksin, Thailand will be in for hellish times again. As per my direct knowledge, Thaksin is a criminal and because he jumped bail, he is a double criminal. His criminal conviction was upheld by the nine judge bench of the Supreme Court. What basis other than his gigantic wealth does he have to ask for a pardon?

Going back hundreds of years in Thai Kings traditionally had a bell outside the palace. The Thai people were able to use this as a direct appeal to the king. If they felt they had been wronged, they came, rang the bell, and the king would hear their grievance. It was in this tradition that the UDD collected the signatures in order to appeal for a pardon for the former PM.

Wonderful history that plays absolutely no role in the 21st Century where their Royal Pardon request is illegal.

If they want a pardon for Thaksin, have his son Oak request it in a legal manner.

.

[hanuman1]

What basis other than his gigantic wealth does he have to ask for a pardon?

He has a personal militia that can engage in large scale terrorist actions if he doesn't get his way

Thanks for that. Funny.

[Ricardo]

<snip for brevity>

Important note : there is a typo in the number of signatures they've collected so far, it's 3.6, not millions, just 3.6, because the retard student counts only for 0.6.[/size][/font]

I suspect that, were I to refer to the poor Thai farmers or good people of Isaan as "retards", which I'd never do, I might correctly be accused of elitism or being condescending towards them ? Perhaps the same respect might be shown towards the dingbats of the NCVPL ?

No Double Standards and all that sort of thing !

Edited September 15, 2011 by Ricardo

[siampolee]

jurgeng

In short, it's a gang of dingbats, with 4 members, the "professor", his wife, the janitor and a retard undergraduate student.

You should attend you would indeed be in good company there.

[Orac]

One signature would have been quite sufficient, especially if the appeal was being made on reasonably grounds and with the backing of evidence. Compiling the long list of a couple of million signatures was intended to apply pressure and make up for the fact that there is no reasonable grounds, nor is there any evidence. Shucks, nevermind no evidence of innocence, there's not even a claim of it. Just the old politically motivated chestnut that politicians feel their right to use any time someone should dare find them guilty.

I am not sure evidence of innocence is a requirement for a pardon though I am sure i will be quickly corrected if i am wrong. As far as as I am aware a royal pardon is not an overuling of a legal decision but something that sits outside it and provide an option to take into account such things as national interest and previous actions. In this particular case it could be argued that Thaksin previous services to the country should be enough to give consideration to what is, in this case, a fairly minor charge.

"minor charge". Not true.

Also it would be nice if the fugitive convict would show some remorse. That's the part which is really lacking

I would agree with you there - personally I think it would nice if he vanished in a puff of smoke. Unfortunately 'nice' is a difficult concept to quantify.

As for minor charges, I did say that it could be argued and, at the end of the day, he has not been convicted of murder or child abuse that most people would find unacceptable. Unfortunately, as the recent survey showed, corruption is not viewed as that serious by Thais, possibly because they have little experience or awareness of how a political system works that is relatively free of it. Also there are a number of people arguing on here that Thaksins pardon plea should not be treated as a special case however it is fairly common knowledge that corruption in Thailand is endemic and virtually everyone in a position of power is involved in it so it could be argued that the charges themselves were applied as a special case.

[rubl]

"minor charge". Not true.

Also it would be nice if the fugitive convict would show some remorse. That's the part which is really lacking

I would agree with you there - personally I think it would nice if he vanished in a puff of smoke. Unfortunately 'nice' is a difficult concept to quantify.

As for minor charges, I did say that it could be argued and, at the end of the day, he has not been convicted of murder or child abuse that most people would find unacceptable. Unfortunately, as the recent survey showed, corruption is not viewed as that serious by Thais, possibly because they have little experience or awareness of how a political system works that is relatively free of it. Also there are a number of people arguing on here that Thaksins pardon plea should not be treated as a special case however it is fairly common knowledge that corruption in Thailand is endemic and virtually everyone in a position of power is involved in it so it could be argued that the charges themselves were applied as a special case.

K. Thaksin is the first PM such accused and convicted, but there are a few politicians, MPs as well. A few of them moved to Cambodia to avoid being jailed.

The pardon request I see as much more a political issue which has been presented as "we, the people want this" meaning "we, some UDD / red-shirts want this". Furthermore Dept PM Chalerm said "I'll bring him back". Pheu Thai executive k. Yongyuth said "long overdue". A handfull of UDD MPs going to Cambodia to see k. Thaksin, about how to win a football match I guess

[Orac]

"minor charge". Not true.

Also it would be nice if the fugitive convict would show some remorse. That's the part which is really lacking

I would agree with you there - personally I think it would nice if he vanished in a puff of smoke. Unfortunately 'nice' is a difficult concept to quantify.

As for minor charges, I did say that it could be argued and, at the end of the day, he has not been convicted of murder or child abuse that most people would find unacceptable. Unfortunately, as the recent survey showed, corruption is not viewed as that serious by Thais, possibly because they have little experience or awareness of how a political system works that is relatively free of it. Also there are a number of people arguing on here that Thaksins pardon plea should not be treated as a special case however it is fairly common knowledge that corruption in Thailand is endemic and virtually everyone in a position of power is involved in it so it could be argued that the charges themselves were applied as a special case.

K. Thaksin is the first PM such accused and convicted, but there are a few politicians, MPs as well. A few of them moved to Cambodia to avoid being jailed.

The pardon request I see as much more a political issue which has been presented as "we, the people want this" meaning "we, some UDD / red-shirts want this". Furthermore Dept PM Chalerm said "I'll bring him back". Pheu Thai executive k. Yongyuth said "long overdue". A handfull of UDD MPs going to Cambodia to see k. Thaksin, about how to win a football match I guess

I agree - the "we, the people" bit is also probably why an appropriate family member has not signed the petition.

[hammered]

Agree with the "we the people" line too.

Old Tuls strategy is a delaying one too as he wants time to get millions of signatures (not easy) and then to have them checked. The anti-thaksinistas had a signature drive before. What happened to that? Although I suspect they didnt actually get that many properly documented as it is very difficult to do as the red clearly found out and they have a very efficient network

[longway]

A bit of background on this "Network of Citizen Volunteers Protecting the Land".

From Wiki : The Network of Citizen Volunteers Protecting the Land (Thai: กลุ่มประชาชนเพื่อพิทักษ์ชาติ ศาสน์ กษัตริย์ or เครือข่ายพลเมืองอาสาปกป้องแผ่นดิน), is commonly known as Multicolor Shirts. Since this day, the movement has held demonstrations nearly every day. In September 2010, the network started a signature collection against a bill granting amnesty to anyone prosecuted for actions connected to the 2010 political protests.^[6] In addition to rallies in public, the movement's leader, Dr. Tul, regularly files complaints before the Election Commission and the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC), and lawsuits against prominent "Red Shirt" activists and Pheu Thai Party politicians, including controversial MP Jatuporn Prompan, and Prime Minister-elect Yingluck Shinawatra.^[7] After the Election Commission endorsed the parlamentarian's status of Jatuporn, the movement also announced to sue the EC itself.^[8]

In short, it's a gang of dingbats, with 4 members, the "professor", his wife, the janitor and a retard undergraduate student.

Important note : there is a typo in the number of signatures they've collected so far, it's 3.6, not millions, just 3.6, because the retard student counts only for 0.6.

In short, you don't like this particular group. Fine, no problem with that. With UDD /red-shirts called terrorists, I guess I won't complain about the description 'dingbats'

BTW what are you mumbling about 3.6, 0.6, ... The OP clearly said

"Dr Tul said the network hopes to collect more than 3.6 million signatures affixed to the petition, outnumbering those signing the Red Shirt petition."

I wonder how many signatures they would get if the petition was for Thaksin to receive a royal boot up his ass.

[Orac]

The big question is does Dr Tul needc to get a signature from one of Thaksins kids for it to be acceptable????

[rubl]

Agree with the "we the people" line too.

Old Tuls strategy is a delaying one too as he wants time to get millions of signatures (not easy) and then to have them checked. The anti-thaksinistas had a signature drive before. What happened to that? Although I suspect they didnt actually get that many properly documented as it is very difficult to do as the red clearly found out and they have a very efficient network

Any of the self-respecting groups have had signature drives for various issues. You need 50,000 to get senators to look at things. No guarantee they'll do more than look though

Your last sentence I find very disturbing, dear hammered. It suggests 'the red' may have obstructed a democratic campaign for asking people to sign in order to give a petition the necessary legal status.

[hammered]

Agree with the "we the people" line too.

Old Tuls strategy is a delaying one too as he wants time to get millions of signatures (not easy) and then to have them checked. The anti-thaksinistas had a signature drive before. What happened to that? Although I suspect they didnt actually get that many properly documented as it is very difficult to do as the red clearly found out and they have a very efficient network

Any of the self-respecting groups have had signature drives for various issues. You need 50,000 to get senators to look at things. No guarantee they'll do more than look though

Your last sentence I find very disturbing, dear hammered. It suggests 'the red' may have obstructed a democratic campaign for asking people to sign in order to give a petition the necessary legal status.

Im not suggesting they tried to hamper anything. I dont think they did. In fact signature collection by respectful groups will likely be regional based in an area favourable to your point of view.

My point was that even with a very efficient organization (which old Tul does not have), that it is difficult to gather millions of signatures and the copies of documents or details needed to prove signature. I rememeber the PAD struggling to get 50K once as they needed copies of house papers and ID cards. It isnt easy. Old Tul may do better if he can coopt some of the Dem machinary down south and in BKK etc to help him out as the PAD were able to do in protest against Thaksin days before the Dems kicked them in the nads. I think the old anti-Thaksinista signature drive was by some BJT allies and they just tried to get all the local Interior ministry appointees to gather signatures and it probably was a bit of a disaster with no details/documentation and not many signatures. If it has been a great success Im sure old Suthep and his BJT buddies wouldnt have missed the opportunity to tell everyone.

Another point is that I am convinced that there are a lot more people who would like Thaksin back than there are people who dont want him back. I also think that there are a lto of people who dont give a toss either way and want the country to move on whatever it takes. It is this group that are being fought over as with them on the Thaksinista side they will have an overwhelming majority and be unstoppable and with them on the anti-Thaksinista side they will probably have a reasonable majority.

[rubl]

...

Another point is that I am convinced that there are a lot more people who would like Thaksin back than there are people who dont want him back. I also think that there are a lto of people who dont give a toss either way and want the country to move on whatever it takes. It is this group that are being fought over as with them on the Thaksinista side they will have an overwhelming majority and be unstoppable and with them on the anti-Thaksinista side they will probably have a reasonable majority.

I think the people who want k. Thaksin back and some of those who do not, are more vocal than lots of people who do not or don't care, other things to do, still two feet of water in the living room.

I don't think you can give any numbers without being told to be prejudiced, whatever numbers you toss around. Works both or all ways and I for one won't speculate on this.

Edited September 15, 2011 by rubl