Pheu Thai voters on efforts to facilitate Thaksin's return

[Lite Beer]

YOUR SAY

Pheu Thai voters on efforts to facilitate Thaksin's return

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

Seven voters who opted for Pheu Thai Party during the July 3 elections were asked if the Yingluck Shinawatra government should first focus on bringing back convicted former PM Thaksin as a free man or if it should place its immediate focus on something else.

Lertmit Thongchai, roadside coffee vendor: There should be no hurry in bringing Thaksin back because it could lead to problems. He will surely return in time.

Suluck Lamubol, reporter for prachatai.com online newspaper: Bringing Thaksin back should not be a priority but they can do it if they like because they have the justification since [Thaksin's conviction] leads back to the [september 19, 2006] coup. As to what might be the priority for the Pheu Thai government, I think it's the various draconian laws that need to be addressed: the lese majeste law, the Computer Crimes Act, the emergency decree and the Internal Security Act. The red shirts who have been wrongly prosecuted should also be assisted.

Noppakao Kongsuwan, volunteer for Red Sunday Group: I don't think the government's priority should be that of helping Thaksin or getting him a royal pardon, but urgently addressing issues like the rising cost of living. Another urgent matter is justice for the 91 people killed [last April and May] as well as the politically motivated detentions and charges faced by the red shirts. It should also focus on improving relations with neighbouring countries.

Aran Lum-areekul, freelance worker: I don't think the issue of bringing Thaksin back should be so urgent. Those suffering from floods need assistance first. The issue of the rising cost of living is also urgent, because reducing the price of petrol price is not enough.

I also wish to see those affected by the [April-May] clashes get properly compensated. They fought for the Pheu Thai Party and it's about time they were helped.

Poonisa Boonwanna, housewife: I don't think it's necessary to rush the Thaksin issue. Issues related to the economy and flooding should be tackled first. However, I would give the government at least a year to prove itself. Also, elderly people should be provided Bt1,500 per month in assistance by the state. Also, public buses just for elderly people should also be introduced.

Orathai Pakanand, private business owner: I think they're doing their best now. I don't understand why some people always try to link it with the issue of bringing Thaksin back. I'm happy with what they're doing. I want people to forget about the issue of Thaksin because the judicial system will deal with it.

Noranat Nongnapat Thammapeera, self-employed: Why are they so obsessed about the Thaksin issue? Most news reports try to link everything to Thaksin

-- The Nation 2011-09-18

[lovetotravel]

What would be interesting is a more comprehensive poll. Say, 2-3000 PTP voters. Would love to see the results of that poll.

[pisico]

The law is the law; whether we like it or not.

Section 6 of the Criminal Procedure Code, which says a person convicted of a crime who is more than 60 years old and who has received a sentence of no more than three years may appeal for a royal pardon.

Under Section 265 of the code, when a pardon is granted, the punishment must not be imposed.

The previous director-general, Chartchai Suthiklom, had been accused of stalling the appeal process, letting the 3.5 million petition signatures, 35 boxes in all, gather dust in a room. The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) submitted the petition seeking a royal pardon for Thaksin in August, 2009. Any punishment for this blatant obstruction?

Standard procedure by police and the Bangkok elite (and its lackeys) to prevent the law from being applied. I.E. Investigations into the deaths of people in the Wat after the rally had been dispersed, assassination of Seh Dang, the sluggish police reaction after the gambling dens had been publicly exposed, the partial search warrants destined to block access to the gambling venues...

[whybother]

The law is the law; whether we like it or not.

Section 6 of the Criminal Procedure Code, which says a person convicted of a crime who is more than 60 years old and who has received a sentence of no more than three years may appeal for a royal pardon.

Under Section 265 of the code, when a pardon is granted, the punishment must not be imposed.

The previous director-general, Chartchai Suthiklom, had been accused of stalling the appeal process, letting the 3.5 million petition signatures, 35 boxes in all, gather dust in a room. The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) submitted the petition seeking a royal pardon for Thaksin in August, 2009. Any punishment for this blatant obstruction?

Standard procedure by police and the Bangkok elite (and its lackeys) to prevent the law from being applied. I.E. Investigations into the deaths of people in the Wat after the rally had been dispersed, assassination of Seh Dang, the sluggish police reaction after the gambling dens had been publicly exposed, the partial search warrants destined to block access to the gambling venues...

" the Bangkok elite (and its lackeys) ... the partial search warrants destined to block access to the gambling venues..."

I'm glad you've worked out that the new government is "Bankgok elite" as well.

[Buchholz]

The law is the law; whether we like it or not.

Section 6 of the Criminal Procedure Code, which says a person convicted of a crime who is more than 60 years old and who has received a sentence of no more than three years may appeal for a royal pardon.

The law is the law.

Thaksin has never appealed for a Royal Pardon.

Next.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Buchholz

[geriatrickid]

Interesting comments from the Thai people. Despite the derisive stereotypical caricatures presented in these forums, the subjects interviewed all offered some rational, intelligent thoughts. It seems that too many people posting base their views on the people they encounter in the beer bars and brothels and not the actual everyday people that make up Thailand.

[rubl]

Interesting comments from the Thai people. Despite the derisive stereotypical caricatures presented in these forums, the subjects interviewed all offered some rational, intelligent thoughts. It seems that too many people posting base their views on the people they encounter in the beer bars and brothels and not the actual everyday people that make up Thailand.

How would you know, how can you tell, dear Gkid ?

[ratcatcher]

The law is the law; whether we like it or not.

Section 6 of the Criminal Procedure Code, which says a person convicted of a crime who is more than 60 years old and who has received a sentence of no more than three years may appeal for a royal pardon.

The law is the law.

Thaksin has never appealed for a Royal Pardon.

Next.

Some people just don't get it.

Thaksin has always maintained his innocence of all charges and claims all said charges against him were 'politically' motivated ergo he is innocent and thus if innocent how can he ask for a pardon.

Plus, as Buchholz points out, the man has NEVER appealed for a Royal Pardon.

The word "sorry" is not in Mr Thaksin's lexicon. As for remorse and humility..........................

[Buchholz]

The law is the law; whether we like it or not.

Section 6 of the Criminal Procedure Code, which says a person convicted of a crime who is more than 60 years old and who has received a sentence of no more than three years may appeal for a royal pardon.

The law is the law.

Thaksin has never appealed for a Royal Pardon.

Next.

Some people just don't get it.

Thaksin has always maintained his innocence of all charges and claims all said charges against him were 'politically' motivated ergo he is innocent and thus if innocent how can he ask for a pardon.

Plus, as Buchholz points out, the man has NEVER appealed for a Royal Pardon.

The word "sorry" is not in Mr Thaksin's lexicon. As for remorse and humility..........................

They just don't want to get it.

.

[serenitynow]

The law is the law; whether we like it or not.

Section 6 of the Criminal Procedure Code, which says a person convicted of a crime who is more than 60 years old and who has received a sentence of no more than three years may appeal for a royal pardon.

The law is the law.

Thaksin has never appealed for a Royal Pardon.

Next.

Not to mention that he was not yet 60 years of age when convicted. I'll take the post at face value and suggest that statute may be useful for subsequent convictions.

[473geo]

The law is the law; whether we like it or not.

Section 6 of the Criminal Procedure Code, which says a person convicted of a crime who is more than 60 years old and who has received a sentence of no more than three years may appeal for a royal pardon.

The law is the law.

Thaksin has never appealed for a Royal Pardon.

Next.

Some people just don't get it.

Thaksin has always maintained his innocence of all charges and claims all said charges against him were 'politically' motivated ergo he is innocent and thus if innocent how can he ask for a pardon.

Plus, as Buchholz points out, the man has NEVER appealed for a Royal Pardon.

The word "sorry" is not in Mr Thaksin's lexicon. As for remorse and humility..........................

They just don't want to get it.

.

I think the lady in the OP sums up who gets it........

Noranat Nongnapat Thammapeera, self-employed: Why are they so obsessed about the Thaksin issue? Most news reports try to link everything to Thaksin

[Buchholz]

The law is the law.

Thaksin has never appealed for a Royal Pardon.

Next.

Some people just don't get it.

Thaksin has always maintained his innocence of all charges and claims all said charges against him were 'politically' motivated ergo he is innocent and thus if innocent how can he ask for a pardon.

Plus, as Buchholz points out, the man has NEVER appealed for a Royal Pardon.

The word "sorry" is not in Mr Thaksin's lexicon. As for remorse and humility..........................

They just don't want to get it.

I think the lady in the OP sums up who gets it........

Noranat Nongnapat Thammapeera, self-employed: Why are they so obsessed about the Thaksin issue? Most news reports try to link everything to Thaksin

They just don't want to get it.

Orathai Pakanand, private business owner: I'm happy with what they're doing. I want people to forget about the issue of Thaksin because the judicial system will deal with it.

The judicial system has already dealt with it. They convicted him. They allowed him the opportunity to appeal the conviction. He didn't. Story ends. The Pheu Thai Party doesn't want the judicial system to deal with it. That's why the PTP are pursuing amnesty legislation with a Red Shirt Royal Pardon request as a back-up. Orathai wants everyone to forget the reality.

.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Buchholz

[473geo]

You just don't get it.............whatever the outcome....as with the election, the majority of Thai people will do as they always do.....deal with anything that actually has any effect on them......until,if,when, why,how, Thaksin returns to Thailand this is a non issue for normal everyday Thai.....read what they are saying in the OP......and this is PTP voters don't forget......

[rubl]

You just don't get it.............whatever the outcome....as with the election, the majority of Thai people will do as they always do.....deal with anything that actually has any effect on them......until,if,when, why,how, Thaksin returns to Thailand this is a non issue for normal everyday Thai.....read what they are saying in the OP......and this is PTP voters don't forget......

When you're right, you're right. This is Pheu Thai voters, don't forget

[Bakseedaa]

The law is the law; whether we like it or not.

Section 6 of the Criminal Procedure Code, which says a person convicted of a crime who is more than 60 years old and who has received a sentence of no more than three years may appeal for a royal pardon.

Under Section 265 of the code, when a pardon is granted, the punishment must not be imposed.

The previous director-general, Chartchai Suthiklom, had been accused of stalling the appeal process, letting the 3.5 million petition signatures, 35 boxes in all, gather dust in a room. The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) submitted the petition seeking a royal pardon for Thaksin in August, 2009. Any punishment for this blatant obstruction?

Standard procedure by police and the Bangkok elite (and its lackeys) to prevent the law from being applied. I.E. Investigations into the deaths of people in the Wat after the rally had been dispersed, assassination of Seh Dang, the sluggish police reaction after the gambling dens had been publicly exposed, the partial search warrants destined to block access to the gambling venues...

HaHa... what nonsense, it reads that , the person to appeal has to have served at least half of his or her sentence, also has to admit their guilt... and as for the three and a half million signatures, it has been established that over one and a half million of them were fake and made up names... Thaksin will go down in history with the likes of Adolf Hitler and Stalin... and what are you if not a "lackey"

[tlansford]

The law is the law; whether we like it or not.

Section 6 of the Criminal Procedure Code, which says a person convicted of a crime who is more than 60 years old and who has received a sentence of no more than three years may appeal for a royal pardon.

The law is the law.

Thaksin has never appealed for a Royal Pardon.

Next.

Some people just don't get it.

Thaksin has always maintained his innocence of all charges and claims all said charges against him were 'politically' motivated ergo he is innocent and thus if innocent how can he ask for a pardon.

Plus, as Buchholz points out, the man has NEVER appealed for a Royal Pardon.

The word "sorry" is not in Mr Thaksin's lexicon. As for remorse and humility..........................

Just a little technicality : a pardon is for a conviction, not for the opinion of the person convicted.

Thaskin has been convicted, which is what this little drama is about in the first place, so, yes, it seems possible that he could also be pardoned.

[Buchholz]

The law is the law; whether we like it or not.

Section 6 of the Criminal Procedure Code, which says a person convicted of a crime who is more than 60 years old and who has received a sentence of no more than three years may appeal for a royal pardon.

The law is the law.

Thaksin has never appealed for a Royal Pardon.

Next.

Some people just don't get it.

Thaksin has always maintained his innocence of all charges and claims all said charges against him were 'politically' motivated ergo he is innocent and thus if innocent how can he ask for a pardon.

Plus, as Buchholz points out, the man has NEVER appealed for a Royal Pardon.

The word "sorry" is not in Mr Thaksin's lexicon. As for remorse and humility..........................

Just a little technicality : a pardon is for a conviction, not for the opinion of the person convicted.

Thaskin has been convicted, which is what this little drama is about in the first place, so, yes, it seems possible that he could also be pardoned.

It's not possible for him to be pardoned until an allowable representative requests a Royal Pardon.

Those include:

1. Thaksin

2. Thaksin parents (none-deceased)

3. Thaksin's wife (none-divorced)

4. Thaksin's children

It's down to 1. or 4.

[tlansford]

The law is the law; whether we like it or not.

Section 6 of the Criminal Procedure Code, which says a person convicted of a crime who is more than 60 years old and who has received a sentence of no more than three years may appeal for a royal pardon.

Under Section 265 of the code, when a pardon is granted, the punishment must not be imposed.

The previous director-general, Chartchai Suthiklom, had been accused of stalling the appeal process, letting the 3.5 million petition signatures, 35 boxes in all, gather dust in a room. The United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) submitted the petition seeking a royal pardon for Thaksin in August, 2009. Any punishment for this blatant obstruction?

Standard procedure by police and the Bangkok elite (and its lackeys) to prevent the law from being applied. I.E. Investigations into the deaths of people in the Wat after the rally had been dispersed, assassination of Seh Dang, the sluggish police reaction after the gambling dens had been publicly exposed, the partial search warrants destined to block access to the gambling venues...

HaHa... what nonsense, it reads that , the person to appeal has to have served at least half of his or her sentence, also has to admit their guilt... and as for the three and a half million signatures, it has been established that over one and a half million of them were fake and made up names... Thaksin will go down in history with the likes of Adolf Hitler and Stalin... and what are you if not a "lackey"

Reasonableness check...

2 million signatures were verified, the remaining 1 1/2 million were not verified. This is not the same thing as "faked". Please try to imagine "faking" 1.5 signatures and you'll see rather quickly that is a very unlikely scenario.

[rubl]

Reasonableness check...

2 million signatures were verified, the remaining 1 1/2 million were not verified. This is not the same thing as "faked". Please try to imagine "faking" 1.5 signatures and you'll see rather quickly that is a very unlikely scenario.

"Department of Corrections director-general Chartchai Suthiklom said last week that his department had completed its role, as signatures supporting the petition had been verified and submitted to the ministry.

Chartchai said that of 3.6 million signatures, about 2 million were verified against the census, while the others contained irregularities."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2011/09/06/national/Pardon-for-Thaksin-is-the-mandate-of-HM-Chalerm-30164599.html

[tlansford]

Reasonableness check...

2 million signatures were verified, the remaining 1 1/2 million were not verified. This is not the same thing as "faked". Please try to imagine "faking" 1.5 signatures and you'll see rather quickly that is a very unlikely scenario.

"Department of Corrections director-general Chartchai Suthiklom said last week that his department had completed its role, as signatures supporting the petition had been verified and submitted to the ministry.

Chartchai said that of 3.6 million signatures, about 2 million were verified against the census, while the others contained irregularities."

http://www.nationmul...m-30164599.html

exactly...

[rubl]

Reasonableness check...

2 million signatures were verified, the remaining 1 1/2 million were not verified. This is not the same thing as "faked". Please try to imagine "faking" 1.5 signatures and you'll see rather quickly that is a very unlikely scenario.

"Department of Corrections director-general Chartchai Suthiklom said last week that his department had completed its role, as signatures supporting the petition had been verified and submitted to the ministry.

Chartchai said that of 3.6 million signatures, about 2 million were verified against the census, while the others contained irregularities."

http://www.nationmul...m-30164599.html

exactly...

Call me a nitpicker if you want, but your '1-1/2M signatures not verified' is NOT the same as k. Chartchai's '1-1/2M signatures contained irregularities'

[Rimmer]

Inflammatory post removed from view.

[Buchholz]

Reasonableness check...

2 million signatures were verified, the remaining 1 1/2 million were not verified. This is not the same thing as "faked". Please try to imagine "faking" 1.5 signatures and you'll see rather quickly that is a very unlikely scenario.

Legality check...

Not one of those 2 million signatures is from one of the 4 people who can legally request a Royal Pardon.

.

[Buchholz]

Reasonableness check...

2 million signatures were verified, the remaining 1 1/2 million were not verified. This is not the same thing as "faked". Please try to imagine "faking" 1.5 signatures and you'll see rather quickly that is a very unlikely scenario.

"Department of Corrections director-general Chartchai Suthiklom said last week that his department had completed its role, as signatures supporting the petition had been verified and submitted to the ministry.

Chartchai said that of 3.6 million signatures, about 2 million were verified against the census, while the others contained irregularities."

http://www.nationmul...m-30164599.html

exactly...

Call me a nitpicker if you want, but your '1-1/2M signatures not verified' is NOT the same as k. Chartchai's '1-1/2M signatures contained irregularities'

1.6 million "honest mistakes"...

.

[tlansford]

"Department of Corrections director-general Chartchai Suthiklom said last week that his department had completed its role, as signatures supporting the petition had been verified and submitted to the ministry.

Chartchai said that of 3.6 million signatures, about 2 million were verified against the census, while the others contained irregularities."

http://www.nationmul...m-30164599.html

exactly...

Call me a nitpicker if you want, but your '1-1/2M signatures not verified' is NOT the same as k. Chartchai's '1-1/2M signatures contained irregularities'

1.6 million "honest mistakes"...

.

now removed from the quoted text was bakseedaa's original assertion of 1.5 million "fake and made up names"

Buchholt & Rubl - are you telling me that you believe there were over 1.5 names that were faked / made-up and then added to the petition that was submitted?

Rubl - any signature which was not 100% conform to the requirements could be considered to be "irregular". I am not aware of the requirements which were made for these signatures, but let's say, for example, you needed to sign and state your date of birth (or place of birth, or name of mother, etc, etc, etc) and a signer forgot to do that or maybe it was judged to not be legible. The intention would have been to sign the petition but that signature would have not met the requirements, hence "irregular"... but far from "faked".

And wasn't this petition "verified" under a hostile "regime" ( tja - it's so much fun to adopt the vocabulary of the regular posters here ) and if that was indeed the case, then perhaps it is possible to imagine, that just maybe they were trying to disqualify as many signatures as possible? I'm not saying that is what happened, but it isn't hard to imagine it, is it really?

On the other hand, if you and Rubl can figure out a method to fake several million signatures, then you should start a business together, because that would be a truly remarkable ability.

[rubl]

Call me a nitpicker if you want, but your '1-1/2M signatures not verified' is NOT the same as k. Chartchai's '1-1/2M signatures contained irregularities'

1.6 million "honest mistakes"...

now removed from the quoted text was bakseedaa's original assertion of 1.5 million "fake and made up names"

Buchholt & Rubl - are you telling me that you believe there were over 1.5 names that were faked / made-up and then added to the petition that was submitted?

Rubl - any signature which was not 100% conform to the requirements could be considered to be "irregular". I am not aware of the requirements which were made for these signatures, but let's say, for example, you needed to sign and state your date of birth (or place of birth, or name of mother, etc, etc, etc) and a signer forgot to do that or maybe it was judged to not be legible. The intention would have been to sign the petition but that signature would have not met the requirements, hence "irregular"... but far from "faked".

And wasn't this petition "verified" under a hostile "regime" ( tja - it's so much fun to adopt the vocabulary of the regular posters here ) and if that was indeed the case, then perhaps it is possible to imagine, that just maybe they were trying to disqualify as many signatures as possible? I'm not saying that is what happened, but it isn't hard to imagine it, is it really?

On the other hand, if you and Rubl can figure out a method to fake several million signatures, then you should start a business together, because that would be a truly remarkable ability.

My dear chap, I never said anything about fake or not fake. I'm not even suggesting there may be fakes. I merely pointed out that 1.6M signatures had irregularities which invalidated them rather than not having been verified. What the criteria are to invalidate I do not know, but unreadable, error in ID number, mismatch ID and household registration, errors in Thai names, etc., etc. come to mind. That's very normal here in Thailand I'm afraid.

As for hostile regime and pressure to invalidate as much as possible, rest assured Ms. Thida acting leader of the UDD has asked for a revalidation. Please come back in a year or two, then we'll know

Edited September 19, 2011 by rubl

[tlansford]

Call me a nitpicker if you want, but your '1-1/2M signatures not verified' is NOT the same as k. Chartchai's '1-1/2M signatures contained irregularities'

1.6 million "honest mistakes"...

now removed from the quoted text was bakseedaa's original assertion of 1.5 million "fake and made up names"

Buchholt & Rubl - are you telling me that you believe there were over 1.5 names that were faked / made-up and then added to the petition that was submitted?

Rubl - any signature which was not 100% conform to the requirements could be considered to be "irregular". I am not aware of the requirements which were made for these signatures, but let's say, for example, you needed to sign and state your date of birth (or place of birth, or name of mother, etc, etc, etc) and a signer forgot to do that or maybe it was judged to not be legible. The intention would have been to sign the petition but that signature would have not met the requirements, hence "irregular"... but far from "faked".

And wasn't this petition "verified" under a hostile "regime" ( tja - it's so much fun to adopt the vocabulary of the regular posters here ) and if that was indeed the case, then perhaps it is possible to imagine, that just maybe they were trying to disqualify as many signatures as possible? I'm not saying that is what happened, but it isn't hard to imagine it, is it really?

On the other hand, if you and Rubl can figure out a method to fake several million signatures, then you should start a business together, because that would be a truly remarkable ability.

My dear chap, I never said anything about fake or not fake. I'm not even suggesting there may be fakes. I merely pointed out that 1.6M signatures had irregularities which invalidated them rather than not having been verified. What the criteria are to invalidate I do not know, but unreadable, error in ID number, mismatch ID and household registration, errors in Thai names, etc., etc. come to mind. That's very normal here in Thailand I'm afraid.

As for hostile regime and pressure to invalidate as much as possible, rest assured Ms. Thida acting leader of the UDD has asked for a revalidation. Please come back in a year or two, then we'll know

No problem Rubl - the original poster did claim that there were 1.5 million faked names - not you. We had strayed a bit from the original comments.

And it seems that we agree on invalidated/irrregularities/not-verified thing... Cheers - Tom

[bkkjames]

A new election in june 2012-because the 5 year ban on certain politcal figures will be over? That's what I heard the other day from a local. Not sure why this would be the case though.

[rubl]

A new election in june 2012-because the 5 year ban on certain politcal figures will be over? That's what I heard the other day from a local. Not sure why this would be the case though.

It is within the PM's legal rights to call a new election even if it is not legally necessary yet. The previous PM Abhsit called early elections, PM Yingluck may do the same. As for reasons to dissolve the House and call early election, now that's like opening a can of worms

(PS on 2007-11-16 111 TRT executives were banned for five years. There was another group banned on 2008-12-02, members of PPP, Chart Thai, and Matchimathipataya executives)

Edited September 19, 2011 by rubl

[longtimepassed]

Interesting comments from the Thai people. Despite the derisive stereotypical caricatures presented in these forums, the subjects interviewed all offered some rational, intelligent thoughts. It seems that too many people posting base their views on the people they encounter in the beer bars and brothels and not the actual everyday people that make up Thailand.

How would you know, how can you tell, dear Gkid ?

Gkid is an expert on many things - his fountain of wisdom has silenced many a good debate in democrat supported "beer bars and brothels" throughout the LOS.:jap: