Democrats Attack Thai Govt For Basic Wage 'Deceit'

[webfact]

Dems attack govt for basic wage 'deceit'

By The Nation

The Democrats yesterday accused their rival, the Pheu Thai Party, of deceiving voters on their campaign pledge to raise the minimum wage to Bt300 per day.

"The people have the right to check on Pheu Thai's campaign pledge on the minimum wage, which did not happen - this is deceitful," Democrat spokesman Chavanont Intarakolmayasut said.

Chavanont said the government has failed to raise the minimum wage as promised. The plan to adjust the workers' earnings to Bt300 per day in seven provinces starting next year was not the same as guaranteeing and enforcing the minimum wage nationwide, he said.

By this lopsided income adjustment, the government would end up compounding the wage disparity among workers, he said.

Should the government opt to increase the wage nationwide, workers would benefit equally. But the income hike of 40 per cent in seven provinces would accelerate the disparity, he added.

He went on to attack the government's failure to tackle the rising cost of living.

Despite the lowering of petrol and diesel prices, there was no corresponding cut in transport charges, he said. Pheu Thai had attacked the Democrats over the price of hen eggs, which had continued to rise regardless of the change in government, he said.

The government had acted in haste to cut the fuel price without considering the full ramifications on energy conservation, alternative fuel, cost of living and transport charges, he said, arguing that the hasty decision favoured oil suppliers, while the state and people did not benefit.

Suan Dusit Poll has released an opinion survey showing that 34 per cent of 2,187 respondents ranked the government's inability to ensure a wage hike nationwide as its most critical issue.

Other issues faced by the government included tackling the cost of living and the dispensing of favours in the bureaucratic reshuffle.

Asked to list five issues of concern, respondents singled out floods as causing the most anxiety, followed by social divisions, the cost of living, illicit drugs and vice, and southern violence.

-- The Nation 2011-09-19

[jaltsc]

It is a worldwide political axiom that it is better to ask for forgiveness (after the act) than for permission (before). Why is this news? Politics is about winning and power, not justice and equality. No different here than any other country?

[nurofiend]

It is a worldwide political axiom that it is better to ask for forgiveness (after the act) than for permission (before). Why is this news? Politics is about winning and power, not justice and equality. No different here than any other country?

it's true, sure what promises did abhisit make when he was touring the country on his election campaign before the public voted him in? ... oh, right.

but seriously, you're right....this is the same in every 'democratic' country.... a party will always oversell themselves during the campaign trail, always.

[whybother]

It is a worldwide political axiom that it is better to ask for forgiveness (after the act) than for permission (before). Why is this news? Politics is about winning and power, not justice and equality. No different here than any other country?

it's true, sure what promises did abhisit make when he was touring the country on his election campaign before the public voted him in? ... oh, right.

but seriously, you're right....this is the same in every 'democratic' country.... a party will always oversell themselves during the campaign trail, always.

Is it really relevant what Abhisit promised, since he isn't in a position to implement them anyway?

IF he had got into government, do you think a PTP opposition would be just sitting back and letting him get away with not implementing them, or, more stupidly, saying it was "just campaigning and not real promises"? (given PTP's efforts in opposition, the answer to that might be "probably".)

But the Democrats aren't in government. The PTP are. And they are there mainly because they promised to do a lot of things for the poor, many of which they are now reneging on. They are even back tracking on their promise that getting Thaksin back was not a priority.

[nurofiend]

It is a worldwide political axiom that it is better to ask for forgiveness (after the act) than for permission (before). Why is this news? Politics is about winning and power, not justice and equality. No different here than any other country?

it's true, sure what promises did abhisit make when he was touring the country on his election campaign before the public voted him in? ... oh, right.

but seriously, you're right....this is the same in every 'democratic' country.... a party will always oversell themselves during the campaign trail, always.

Is it really relevant what Abhisit promised, since he isn't in a position to implement them anyway?

IF he had got into government, do you think a PTP opposition would be just sitting back and letting him get away with not implementing them, or, more stupidly, saying it was "just campaigning and not real promises"? (given PTP's efforts in opposition, the answer to that might be "probably".)

But the Democrats aren't in government. The PTP are. And they are there mainly because they promised to do a lot of things for the poor, many of which they are now reneging on. They are even back tracking on their promise that getting Thaksin back was not a priority.

No it was never relevant what abhisit did or didn't promise.... that was my point.

and no i don't expect an opposition party to let the government fall back on it's promises, what gave you that assumption?

saying 'that's how the world is' does not equal saying 'that's how the world should be'

Edited September 19, 2011 by nurofiend

[scorecard]

It is a worldwide political axiom that it is better to ask for forgiveness (after the act) than for permission (before). Why is this news? Politics is about winning and power, not justice and equality. No different here than any other country?

That's a convenient new axiom.

[nurofiend]

@ whybother

also just to add, i think you misunderstood my meaning - i was talking about before abhisit did come into power......

Edited September 19, 2011 by nurofiend

[nurofiend]

It is a worldwide political axiom that it is better to ask for forgiveness (after the act) than for permission (before). Why is this news? Politics is about winning and power, not justice and equality. No different here than any other country?

That's a convenient new axiom.

and that has to be a joke, right?

[chaoyang]

And they are there mainly because they promised to do a lot of things for the poor, many of which they are now reneging on. They are even back tracking on their promise that getting Thaksin back was not a priority.

Let's wait until the dust settles a bit before declaring these things were "reneged on". It looks to me like they are moving to implement them, and as is the case in politics, there may be opposition and compromises.

And why shouldn't Thaksin be allowed back? He was overthrown in an illegal coup while out of the country, then convicted in absentia by the same govt that had a hand in his overthrow.

Now does that sound like the kind of thing that should continue to be enforced?

[serenitynow]

And they are there mainly because they promised to do a lot of things for the poor, many of which they are now reneging on. They are even back tracking on their promise that getting Thaksin back was not a priority.

Let's wait until the dust settles a bit before declaring these things were "reneged on". It looks to me like they are moving to implement them, and as is the case in politics, there may be opposition and compromises.

And why shouldn't Thaksin be allowed back? He was overthrown in an illegal coup while out of the country, then convicted in absentia by the same govt that had a hand in his overthrow.

Now does that sound like the kind of thing that should continue to be enforced?

Just to correct some mis-statements of fact. Thaksin was tried by the court during the administration of his brother in law Somchao Wongsawat. He was not tried in absentia, but he was convicted in absentia as he and his wife fled before the verdict was delivered.

[Buchholz]

And why shouldn't Thaksin be allowed back?

Just to correct some mis-statements of fact. Thaksin was tried by the court during the administration of his brother in law Somchao Wongsawat. He was not tried in absentia, but he was convicted in absentia as he and his wife fled before the verdict was delivered.

Additionally, it's not a matter of allowing Thaksin to come back. There have been 1,135 days on which he could have very easily returned to Thailand, on his volition.

BUT, does he not still fear assassination?

Former Thai Prime Minister Flees Corruption Charges

August 11, 2008

Former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his wife were due in court but left for London; he says he fears an assassination attempt.

http://www.findingdulcinea.com/news/international/Aug-08/Former-Thai-Prime-Minister-Flees-Corruption-Charges.html

Edited September 19, 2011 by Buchholz

[nurofiend]

And why shouldn't Thaksin be allowed back? He was overthrown in an illegal coup while out of the country, then convicted in absentia by the same govt that had a hand in his overthrow.

Just to correct some mis-statements of fact. Thaksin was tried by the court during the administration of his brother in law Somchao Wongsawat. He was not tried in absentia, but he was convicted in absentia as he and his wife fled before the verdict was delivered.

Additionally, it's not a matter of allowing Thaksin to come back. There have been 1,135 days on which he could have very easily returned to Thailand, on his volition.

BUT, does he not still fear assassination?

Former Thai Prime Minister Flees Corruption Charges

August 11, 2008

Former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra and his wife were due in court but left for London; he says he fears an assassination attempt.

http://www.findingdu...on-Charges.html

well if he doesn't, he bloody well should!

[KKvampire]

Deceit is one of the lesser crimes of PT and their UDD brothers and sisters

[Mosha]

If voting changed anything it would be illegal. Especially for the poor.

[chaoyang]

Just to correct some mis-statements of fact. Thaksin was tried by the court during the administration of his brother in law Somchao Wongsawat. He was not tried in absentia, but he was convicted in absentia as he and his wife fled before the verdict was delivered.

I stand corrected. I'm sure the proceedings were totally above-board and without political motivation or interference.

[serenitynow]

Just to correct some mis-statements of fact. Thaksin was tried by the court during the administration of his brother in law Somchao Wongsawat. He was not tried in absentia, but he was convicted in absentia as he and his wife fled before the verdict was delivered.

I stand corrected. I'm sure the proceedings were totally above-board and without political motivation or interference.

It was a pretty open and shut case, as was the case against his wife. Black Letter Law. Still the court took many hours in the reading of the verdict and explanation of every facet of the case so that even the most obtuse and partisan observer could see the verdict was reached with partiality only to the law. If you're looking for intereference and a lack of transparency look no further than Potjaman's overturning of her conviction at the Appeals Court. No one, no matter how partisan can defend that reversal.

[Samuian]

And this is what is called Opposition" in EVERY Country where a rather functioning democracy is in the works.

It was clear that this was a bunch of empty and if implemented very expensiv promises - to anyone who has a head on their shoulders for more then just preventing rain falling into the neck and causing disturbances there.

Just how much has only the consumer rice price risen since 2001?

[Colin Yai]

It is a worldwide political axiom that it is better to ask for forgiveness (after the act) than for permission (before). Why is this news? Politics is about winning and power, not justice and equality. No different here than any other country?

it's true, sure what promises did abhisit make when he was touring the country on his election campaign before the public voted him in? ... oh, right.

but seriously, you're right....this is the same in every 'democratic' country.... a party will always oversell themselves during the campaign trail, always.

Is it really relevant what Abhisit promised, since he isn't in a position to implement them anyway?

IF he had got into government, do you think a PTP opposition would be just sitting back and letting him get away with not implementing them, or, more stupidly, saying it was "just campaigning and not real promises"? (given PTP's efforts in opposition, the answer to that might be "probably".)

But the Democrats aren't in government. The PTP are. And they are there mainly because they promised to do a lot of things for the poor, many of which they are now reneging on. They are even back tracking on their promise that getting Thaksin back was not a priority.

I see the much heralded discounted price of diesel will be almost back to what it was before the PTP got into power as from tomorrow,it did'nt last long did it!. :bah: Edited September 19, 2011 by Colin Yai

[metisdead]

A post containing a degrading comment regarding Thais has been removed.

7) Not to post slurs or degrading comments directed towards any group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

8) Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais.

[chaoyang]

It was a pretty open and shut case, as was the case against his wife. Black Letter Law. Still the court took many hours in the reading of the verdict and explanation of every facet of the case so that even the most obtuse and partisan observer could see the verdict was reached with partiality only to the law. If you're looking for intereference and a lack of transparency look no further than Potjaman's overturning of her conviction at the Appeals Court. No one, no matter how partisan can defend that reversal.

I'm glad to hear that the judiciary can act independent of political pressure and when Thaksin returns he should pay the price as ruled by the court.

I do find it hard to believe that the case wasn't a vendetta. Though it might be justified, I am sure there are many, many others who would also be deserving of a good investigation, trial and conviction. Selective enforcement?

At any rate, whether he returns or not, it is still too early to say all of the PTP promises are already proven to have been "lies".

Anyone who knows Thailand at all knows it is a vipers' nest, so nothing would surprise me.

Still, I think the genie is out of the bottle and society will have to address the vast imbalances between rich and poor. Only the PTP appears willing to make a start.

Edited September 19, 2011 by chaoyang

[ginjag]

It is a worldwide political axiom that it is better to ask for forgiveness (after the act) than for permission (before). Why is this news? Politics is about winning and power, not justice and equality. No different here than any other country?

All the talk about here is not different to other countries---well I say this, here it is blatant lies, we all know what pre election promises are, but the intention was plain to see in near all the promises, thats the difference. things can change in a month or so and many governments have to do U turns in one or two instances, put to downright pledge many things without thinking of the economics is SICK and here they swallow it,hook line and sinker.

If this family government were to uphold most promises, and keep the country on an even keel -then I will say good for the people....this is where my slogan comes in--bash when needed.

[whybother]

I'm glad to hear that the judiciary can act independent of political pressure and when Thaksin returns he should pay the price as ruled by the court.

I do find it hard to believe that the case wasn't a vendetta. Though it might be justified, I am sure there are many, many others who would also be deserving of a good investigation, trial and conviction. Selective enforcement?

At any rate, whether he returns or not, it is still too early to say all of the PTP promises are already proven to have been "lies".

Anyone who knows Thailand at all knows it is a vipers' nest, so nothing would surprise me.

Still, I think the genie is out of the bottle and society will have to address the vast imbalances between rich and poor. Only the PTP appears willing to make a start.

"Only the PTP appears willing to make a start."

Really?

A 300 baht "minimum wage" that they only want to put into 7 provinces and won't legislate to enforce private companies to comply.

Reducing fuel prices that mainly effects fuel that rich people buy. Diesel prices are apparently back up to where they were before the "price reduction". Transport and public bus prices haven't dropped. ... but the rich are getting their cheaper fuel.

A tax rebate on first car purchases, that most poor people can't get because they don't pay the tax to be able to get the rebate. Another one for the rich buying cars.

Did I miss anything?

[rubl]

I'm glad to hear that the judiciary can act independent of political pressure and when Thaksin returns he should pay the price as ruled by the court.

I do find it hard to believe that the case wasn't a vendetta. Though it might be justified, I am sure there are many, many others who would also be deserving of a good investigation, trial and conviction. Selective enforcement?

At any rate, whether he returns or not, it is still too early to say all of the PTP promises are already proven to have been "lies".

Anyone who knows Thailand at all knows it is a vipers' nest, so nothing would surprise me.

Still, I think the genie is out of the bottle and society will have to address the vast imbalances between rich and poor. Only the PTP appears willing to make a start.

"Only the PTP appears willing to make a start."

Really?

A 300 baht "minimum wage" that they only want to put into 7 provinces and won't legislate to enforce private companies to comply.

Reducing fuel prices that mainly effects fuel that rich people buy. Diesel prices are apparently back up to where they were before the "price reduction". Transport and public bus prices haven't dropped. ... but the rich are getting their cheaper fuel.

A tax rebate on first car purchases, that most poor people can't get because they don't pay the tax to be able to get the rebate. Another one for the rich buying cars.

Did I miss anything?

Yes, you did. The 'tax rebate on first car purchase' is now no longer a deduction of personal income tax, but a refund on excise tax. A few more conditions, but in principle more open to all than before when first proposed / promised / announced.

Edited September 19, 2011 by rubl

[rametindallas]

I'm glad to hear that the judiciary can act independent of political pressure and when Thaksin returns he should pay the price as ruled by the court.

I do find it hard to believe that the case wasn't a vendetta. Though it might be justified, I am sure there are many, many others who would also be deserving of a good investigation, trial and conviction. Selective enforcement?

At any rate, whether he returns or not, it is still too early to say all of the PTP promises are already proven to have been "lies".

Anyone who knows Thailand at all knows it is a vipers' nest, so nothing would surprise me.

Still, I think the genie is out of the bottle and society will have to address the vast imbalances between rich and poor. Only the PTP appears willing to make a start.

"Only the PTP appears willing to make a start."

Really?

A 300 baht "minimum wage" that they only want to put into 7 provinces and won't legislate to enforce private companies to comply.

Reducing fuel prices that mainly effects fuel that rich people buy. Diesel prices are apparently back up to where they were before the "price reduction". Transport and public bus prices haven't dropped. ... but the rich are getting their cheaper fuel.

A tax rebate on first car purchases, that most poor people can't get because they don't pay the tax to be able to get the rebate. Another one for the rich buying cars.

Did I miss anything?

Corporate taxes going from 30% to 23%? That should put more money in the hands of the poor who invest. Maybe the 'Rice Mortgage Scheme' wherin the mills and wholesale dealers hoard rice to get the top price?

[MAJIC]

It's generally accepted Worldwide that Politicians are born liars, getting caught out is when the...............

Except for Bill Clinton,he made amends,and got off with a........

Perhaps Yingluck, will do a....... or a.......

Edited September 20, 2011 by MAJIC

[YellowFeverCAD]

Still, I think the genie is out of the bottle and society will have to address the vast imbalances between rich and poor. Only the PTP appears willing to make a start.

Far and away one of the funniest things ever posted on this board and that is saying something

[Maestro]

A defamatory post accusing someone of murder and the replies to it have been deleted.

Incidentally, the title of this topic is "Democrats Attack Thai Govt For Basic Wage 'Deceit' ", just in case somebody would like to post something that is on topic.

[sfbandung]

Why is it news that politicians make extravagant promises?

It does indeed happen the world over. If you believe politicians at election time it simply underlines the old adage, "In a democracy you get the politicians you deserve".

[yoshiwara]

Thaksin was and is always about looting the state, so the promise re the minimum wage was only ever going to be implemented in the public sector.

If there is one thing that Thaksin will have assured the North-Eastern landowners in order to tie down the votes it is that the upping of the minimum wage would NOT be implemented in the private sector. The red cheerleaders would like to push out the idea that PT and Thaksin support the so-called poor, but in reality they represent alternative rulling class interests and Thaksin isn't going to jeopardise those, so was there deceit? Yes. Not because the policy has seemingly changed, but because Thaksin lied as to the actual policy prior to the election. He will have lied to the PTP and the reds as well those they can plead innocence. Plead all they like. The longer the delay to Thaksin's return goes on, the more the policy lies will unravel. No wonder the reds are having kittens.

[Buchholz]

Why is it news that politicians make extravagant promises?

It does indeed happen the world over. If you believe politicians at election time it simply underlines the old adage, "In a democracy you get the politicians you deserve".

The difference being that, for Thailand, lying in regards to election promises is illegal, which is a good thing that other countries could benefit by implementing.