Many Surveillance Cameras Are 'Fake', Bangkok Authorities Admit

[daiwill60]

Without listing all, we can safely say the UK , Holland, Belgium, Germany, France, getting the picture of Europe forming in your head, YET? Oh and the USA, Candada and probably Aus and NZ too. and many domestic and business security cameras in these countries too. Nearly all small scale CCTV fro SMEs in Europe re sold with a couple of dummy units as an option.

Many countries do exactly the same thing, except they dont advertise/admit to it..

That's interesting. I don't dispute your statement, but I was wondering if you could name a few of those countries and what your souece of information is. Thanks.

[daiwill60]

Fake noses, fake tits, fake eyes, fake handbags, fake car parts, fake medicines, fake cops, fake electoral promises, fake voters, fake security cameras, fake everything.

I am happy to offer you a "real" ride to the airport if you are ready to go back to your fantastic country that has none of these issues. Please, do tell us..where is it?

Oh, to heck with it, let me sweeten the offer. If you can convince us that there is such a place, I will pay for the plane ticket too!

What a piece of hell it must be to be so unhappy, and live in such an awful place. Remind us, why are you still here? Are you an important player in an International company that insists you suffer here? Are you a secret agent man assigned to Thailand? Are you destitute and can not afford a ticket home? Are you chained to the toilet? Why do you stay here?

oh well that only took 20 posts before someone come up with the original comment of.... "if you dont like it...you can leave".......

Personally I think that Richard does have a point, as the comments posted by Arkady were a waste of a computer (used to be ink in the good old days) and his time, as nothing constructive was said in order to provide any enlightenment on the subject, and he is so obviously well peed off with Toyland (sorry I meant Thailand), that he may as well spend the time looking for Utopia, as he obviously has not found his genuine plaything here.

[gregb]

Hardly anything new in the concept, eg sets of 4 real accompanied by 4 dummy cameras as a cost saver.

The new concept is that a goverment department is actually admitting it...

Could it be because the dummy cameras were set-up by an earlier regime?

You are so right. The current government would never involve itself in corrupt practices. lol

Do remember this is the Bangkok municipal government, which has not changed for the last 3 years and is still under the control of the Democrats for the next year or so.

Neither the PT nor the recent election has anything to do with this.

[janverbeem]

Do remember this is the Bangkok municipal government, which has not changed for the last 3 years and is still under the control of the Democrats for the next year or so.

Neither the PT nor the recent election has anything to do with this.

Sssth,you just made this thread worthless.

[Pedzie]

Many countries do exactly the same thing, except they dont advertise/admit to it..

That's interesting. I don't dispute your statement, but I was wondering if you could name a few of those countries and what your souece of information is. Thanks.

The UK has some speed camera's that are dummy. Just there for show.

[webfact]

Don't call dummy cameras fakes, says Sukhumbhand

By The Nation

Bangkok governor Sukhumbhand Paribatra yesterday maintained that installing fake surveillance cameras by authorities was practised internationally. He was responding to an online citizen board reporting a claim by pantip.com that 500 cameras in Bangkok were dummies.

Sukhumbhand said all those cameras dubbed as fakes should not be called that. "There are many models, some of which just have outside frames. Some cameras are fake on purpose, because closecircuit television systems cannot fully be installed [in Bangkok]."

Citing signboards promoting his policy of installing another 20,000 cameras throughout Bangkok, he said all were real and operational. He vowed an investigation into the issue, but said he needed to know where the fake ones were installed.

Sukhumbhand's predecessor, Aphirak Kosayodhin, said fake cameras were installed after he left the office, and blamed budget shortage and urgency as the reasons for installing them.

"Locations of cameras are designated prior to actual installation and the dummies were posted at those locations," he added.

"There is transparency throughout the issue and I can explain it. There were no payments for installation of fake units. Everything was done for the sake of security. Locations are fixed for real cameras in future installations," he said.

Deputy Bangkok Governor Theerachon Manomaiphibool said real cameras could detect a large number of crimes and traffic accidents, with each recording period extended from seven to 30 days. He said that by next year real cameras would be installed at all 20,000 locations under Sukhumbhand's policy.

Pol MajGeneral Phanu Kerdlarpphol, a deputy Bangkok police chief in charge of traffic direction, said there were 69 units operated by police for traffic monitoring and there would be another 77 new units installed for traffic police.

-- The Nation 2011-09-21

[Soutpeel]

Personally I think that Richard does have a point, as the comments posted by Arkady were a waste of a computer (used to be ink in the good old days) and his time, as nothing constructive was said in order to provide any enlightenment on the subject, and he is so obviously well peed off with Toyland (sorry I meant Thailand), that he may as well spend the time looking for Utopia, as he obviously has not found his genuine plaything here.

Personally I think that "Richard" is just being a d*ck......which neatly bring me to my point...its an open forum......you can post what you wish as long as its within the specified posting rules

"Richard" is hardly being constructive or even coming up with an original comment.....the "if you dont like it, you can leave" turn of phrase is usually contributed by those personages who are not smart enough to debate a topic.

[Rosco911]

Not to make an issue of this, but the photo that accompanies the OP does not show a dummy camera, but rather a missing camera. It appears to be a photo of an empty camera housing. And a non-existant camera probably costs even less than a fake one. No? This doesn't change the issue but only its magnitude. The skeptical among us probably will continue to think that our upstanding and fearless leaders simply pocketed the money budgeted for the missing hardware. But that would be unbelievable. Right?

Totally agree. I wonder what the invoice for these camera's say, my money money say's night vision /motor driven with zoom. ha ha

[webfact]

Fake City Cameras Prompt Review of City Management

After reports of the installment of fake closed-circuit cameras in Bangkok, the Pheu Thai Party has established a board to verify the management of the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration.

Pheu Thai Party's Deputy Spokesperson Jirayu Huangsap said the Pheu Thai Party has set up a board to scrutinize the management of the Bangkok Metropolitan Administration or BMA of both the current administration led by Governor M.R. Sukumpan Boripat and the administration led by former Governor Apirak Kosayodhin.

The committee was formed after rumors of corruption have spread across the country when a popular blog pointed out to the public that some of the city's cameras are fake.

Governor M.R. Sukumpan has come out to clarify, saying the fake cameras were installed by the previous administration after facing budget shortfalls as a temporary means of discouraging crimes.

The BMA has reassured the public that it will eventually finish installing 20,000 cameras as it had campaigned across the city.

Meanwhile, the Pheu Thai Party will also probe the contracted company to verify whether the fake cameras were truly installed during the management of former Bangkok Governor Apirak Kosayodhin.

Other issues, including the procurement of 4,000 new buses and firetrucks, will also be examined.

-- Tan Network 2011-09-21

[plumeria]

It doesn't matter really. The cameras used in all this monitoring, anywhere, usually produce images with not enough detail to make positive identification. A farce, the only ones getting anything out of it are the ones selling the surveillance systems.

Ask anyone who has been the victim of a crime where the evidence would have been surveillance footage.

The photos taken by the traffic cams are quite excellent as I discovered when a yellow light changed into a red one faster than I anticipated and I got a ticket in the mail for going through a red light something like 0.14 seconds after it changed.

The photos were from all angles and although you couldn't see the driver the number plates were very clear.

It meant paying Baht 500 at the post office by mail. But now I am the wiser about that intersection and how quick they switch the light -- and of course with no countdown clock so you can see how much time you actually have.

[plumeria]

Fake noses, fake tits, fake eyes, fake handbags, fake car parts, fake medicines, fake cops, fake electoral promises, fake voters, fake security cameras, fake everything.

Yeah, Thailand is getting more like the USA every day. It's disgusting how they ape the West's pop culture.

[hammered]

Apirak was meant to be a very fast rising star of the dems on the Abhisit wing and some touted him as possible new sec-gen but the firetruck scandal made him too hot to chose over that one even though he only really signed off on one payment and most of the thing happened under Samak's governorship. Maybe the courts will find him not guilty. It does though seem that Apirak is about to get embroiled in another scandal that will occupy a little more of his time. Interestingly Sukhumband who is certainly not part of the Abhisit wing of the Dems has no problem stating under the previous administration.

Of course many cities across the world as others have noted use dummy cams, but usually prefer the citizens they claim to be protecting so well are left in the dark. And that of course is another aspect here for the Democrat party to address.

[Payboy]

Today this guy tried to book me for speeding.

[george]

[rubl]

After the Pheu Thai finishes the investigation on CCTV cameras, can we have an overview of real versus fake and since the fakes might have been installed because of budget shortfalls, can we also have numbers on CCTV cameras replaced because of our dear UDD MPs ordering a 'switch off' during the happy gathering of 'peaceful protesters, not terrorists' March - May last year?

[richard_smith237]

Many appear to be missing the point. It's not that dummy cameras exist, which they do in many countries. But rather, there are key area's where CCTV camera's are supposed to exist but instead only a camera housing is present.

some of these key area's are traffic danger hot spots... A bus failing to stop at a red light missed my wife's car by inches. It frightened the crap out of her. She called the transport authority to report the near miss and ask that CCTV footage is looked at.

The response was along the lines of: what do you need to report?, you are ok !!!...

My wifes response was that the bus could kill someone next time, the driver is dangerous. To which the response was, if the driver kills someone, then no one can complain and look at the CCTV footage so there is no need to look at it anyway !

After dealing with some flippant and ignorant remarks from junior staff and making complaints one of the senior chappies had to call back a few days later to apologize on behalf of the stupid comments of the staff.

The crux of the issue was and now it has come to light - The cameras that were broken on that day, are in fact absent !!!!!

I think it's fairly obvious that someone has been pocketing the difference.

[richard_smith237]

And in the end the cameras are NOT used for the protection of the people. Cameras has never been proven to prevent any crimes.

Fundamentally flawed logic..... How could someone possibly prove that a crime has been prevented? by the mere absence of an event nothing can be proved (perhaps only before and after statistics could offer such evidence).

Logic would and can identify that as a means of deterrent the presence of CCTV prevents a certain number of incidents. The more people are aware of CCTV the more careful they are. With the availability of potential proof of someone's negligence the less they play risk with someone else's well being.

Camera's are NOT used for protection of the people: Not directly. However, they are used for prosecution of those who break the laws which in general exist for the greater good of the people.

[TAWP]

And in the end the cameras are NOT used for the protection of the people. Cameras has never been proven to prevent any crimes.

Fundamentally flawed logic..... How could someone possibly prove that a crime has been prevented? by the mere absence of an event nothing can be proved (perhaps only before and after statistics could offer such evidence).

Logic would and can identify that as a means of deterrent the presence of CCTV prevents a certain number of incidents. The more people are aware of CCTV the more careful they are. With the availability of potential proof of someone's negligence the less they play risk with someone else's well being.

Camera's are NOT used for protection of the people: Not directly. However, they are used for prosecution of those who break the laws which in general exist for the greater good of the people.

If the cameras are not here for your and my security, and it must be proven to support the cost of privacy lost, then they have no place in public space. So what you are saying is that we are giving up our freedom and accepted level of privacy to make life easier for police and prosecutors?

Well, I for one don't support that trade.

[richard_smith237]

And in the end the cameras are NOT used for the protection of the people. Cameras has never been proven to prevent any crimes.

Fundamentally flawed logic..... How could someone possibly prove that a crime has been prevented? by the mere absence of an event nothing can be proved (perhaps only before and after statistics could offer such evidence).

Logic would and can identify that as a means of deterrent the presence of CCTV prevents a certain number of incidents. The more people are aware of CCTV the more careful they are. With the availability of potential proof of someone's negligence the less they play risk with someone else's well being.

Camera's are NOT used for protection of the people: Not directly. However, they are used for prosecution of those who break the laws which in general exist for the greater good of the people.

If the cameras are not here for your and my security, and it must be proven to support the cost of privacy lost, then they have no place in public space. So what you are saying is that we are giving up our freedom and accepted level of privacy to make life easier for police and prosecutors?

Well, I for one don't support that trade.

It's a tricky subject, rights to privacy vs safety. But, the cameras are not in private areas, they are in the public areas in the town and city centers, at major junctions etc - I have nothing to hide in these area (give or take the odd bit of speeding). The loss of privacy already exists by nature of the fact that the area is already public, the difference is that what occurs in that public area can be / is recorded. If that makes me safer while in these public areas I do support this trade.

Perhaps the issue might be that in some countries the cameras are used more as means to generate revenue from minor crimes than to catch those who commit more serious crimes.

But if they prevent an attack, street robbery or are used as a means to charge a dangerous driver and force him to rethink jumping a red-light next time I'm all for cameras.

I therefore suggest the issue is not with the existence of the cameras, but how they are best used to the advantage of the general public.

[daiwill60]

Following someone doubting the claims on this post that this fake or inoperational cameras are common and asking for proof the claims are true i am posting this

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12290530

HOPE THIS HELPS YOU

[bendejo]

Well, sometimes the cameras are real and the image quality is fairly good.

[Tex916]

> I am happy to offer you a "real" ride to the airport if you are ready to go back to your fantastic country that has none of these issues.

The fact remains that Thailand has an enormous amount of corruption. I am amazed that the Health Minister stole $50 million dollars from the people of Thailand, and that it has taken ten years for the gov't to demand that he pay the money back. Of course, his first response was to say that he won the money in a casino, which was an obvious lie. Thais don't seem to care that they lie, or steal. And now the Health Minister is a monk. A rich monk, I think. It is so silly and childish. It doesn't matter that other countries have similar problems. What matters is that Thailand will never be a successful country when the people of Thailand lack moral character.

[LomSak27]

In this case I'm sure the "budget shortfall" is more from the skim effect, than from a thought out policy. Hey lets just build fakes and pocket the B

Renews my faith in pubic servants on a friday.

[ianf]

And in the end the cameras are NOT used for the protection of the people. Cameras has never been proven to prevent any crimes.

Please note that only about 30% of the cameras used in the UK are 'loaded'. Normal practice.

[ianf]

> I am happy to offer you a "real" ride to the airport if you are ready to go back to your fantastic country that has none of these issues.

The fact remains that Thailand has an enormous amount of corruption. I am amazed that the Health Minister stole $50 million dollars from the people of Thailand, and that it has taken ten years for the gov't to demand that he pay the money back. Of course, his first response was to say that he won the money in a casino, which was an obvious lie. Thais don't seem to care that they lie, or steal. And now the Health Minister is a monk. A rich monk, I think. It is so silly and childish. It doesn't matter that other countries have similar problems. What matters is that Thailand will never be a successful country when the people of Thailand lack moral character.

I think we could have a whole thread on the lack of moral character in Thai people. Those who have suffered at the hands of ex-wives - with their thieving, lying and duplicity, know this full well. My ex-wife Ami, a graduate civil engineer no less, set herself up as the most honest of brokers, berating the Isaan girls and others who steal and lie. She ended up far worse than them. The double standards of these people is extraordinary. I could not think of an intelligent Western girl behaving in the same way. Deceit is their middle name. It makes me think that they are not fully civilised.