Legal Opponents Of The Coup Need To Look Deeper: Thai Opinion

[webfact]

BURNING ISSUE

Legal opponents of the coup need to look deeper

By Avudh Panananda

The Nation

If there was a magic wand, the red shirts and democracy advocates would have waved it to make the 2006 coup disappear.

Saturday and Sunday saw a number of anti-coup panellists ranting and raving about the crippling effects the seizure of power had on the political system.

For 10 hours, the red shirts heard rousing speeches portraying their movement as the vanguard of democracy. Legal scholars, known as the Nitirat Group, issued a statement calling for the expunging of decrees and judicial decisions originating from the coup.

In a perfect world, the coup should not, and would not, have happened. In the real world, military intervention happens time and time again to overthrow elected governments.

Democracy advocates have every right to raise anti-coup awareness. But making all that noise will not stop soldiers being marched out of their barracks.

From 1932 to the present, the Thai military has intervened in the political process more than 17 times. Using force to grab power is unacceptable. But are soldiers the only culprits?

From the very first coup in 1933 to the last one in 2006, military commanders were not alone in engineering power seizures. Events leading to every military intervention proved that opposing sides played the military card to outwit one another before ending up mere pawns on their political chessboard.

If politicians keep on involving the armed forces in their power struggles, then there is no guarantee that power seizures will not be repeated.

The red shirts are quick to blame the 2006 coup for causing politics to veer off course. But their diagnosis of the political ailment might be too simplistic.

Although there is no credible justification to seize power, the political turbulence in 2005 should be examined in order to get a full picture of what went wrong. The coup did not just come out of nowhere.

The country's administrative system was at a standstill, as the then prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra could not pacify street protests led by his yellow-shirt opponents. Military commanders, all appointed by Thaksin, decided to intervene.

The red shirts will find their efforts in vain to prevent a repeat of the power seizure if they focus on condemning the military, but neglect to address political issues which triggered the coup.

The Nitirat Group, led by Thammasat University lecturer Worachet Pakeerut, spent years mapping out a legal strategy to renounce, negate and expunge the coup.

Judging from its statement, the group has failed, totally. It is nonsense to rely on a legal roadmap to tackle the coup, which is essentially a political issue. The 2006 coup was a past wrong and not a civil contract that can be nullified.

Furthermore, the group seems to have addressed just one out of several past coups. What is the legal justification to single out one over the others?

The group's call to expunge the 2006 coup's decrees, particularly those related to the work of the Asset Examination Committee, is an invitation to fuel vengeful politics. If the incumbent office holders could have their way to rewrite the charter to counter the suspended provisions, then the vicious cycle of charter revisions to annihilate political foes would never end.

Any charter rewrite should be about improving the political system and not about political vendettas.

The idea of repealing all judicial decisions linked to the work of the coup and the AEC is absurd. Has there ever been legislation to cancel a verdict or a set of judicial decisions?

Lawmakers are entitled to amend provisions which they see as judicial interpretation not to their liking. But to legislate against a verdict is a gross transgression on the separation of executive, legislative and judicial powers.

-- The Nation 2011-09-20

[Jawnie]

Thais..ALL Thais, simply do not understand democracy. It's that simple.

Simply put, in a democracy, you listen to and compromise with your opponents, then move in a direction all sides agree on. You don't send in the army or the courts to drag them away into silence.

I've not met a Thai yet who understands this, or even seems to care. Thai politics is all about hating and dismantling your opponent. Meanwhile, children and adults can't read or speak English, and have no hope for a future except food carts, mindless retail, or the sex industry.

Still smiling?

[OzMick]

Thais..ALL Thais, simply do not understand democracy. It's that simple.

Simply put, in a democracy, you listen to and compromise with your opponents, then move in a direction all sides agree on. You don't send in the army or the courts to drag them away into silence.

I've not met a Thai yet who understands this, or even seems to care. Thai politics is all about hating and dismantling your opponent. Meanwhile, children and adults can't read or speak English, and have no hope for a future except food carts, mindless retail, or the sex industry.

Still smiling?

Or if those 3 occupations don't appeal, they could become Foreign Minister. Or they could hire someone who can.

Your simplistic concepts are simply that. No wonder that Thais can't understand you - they can't even speak english!

Well past smiling, into the giggle stage.

[hammered]

It would be interesting to be in those smoke filled rooms right now. All these articles seem to hint at a deal with a few red lines thrown in now and again

[siampolee]

It would seem as if the aim of the interested parties is to create the first Anarchist state in the world.

Edited September 20, 2011 by siampolee

[serenitynow]

It's a pretty good article I think. It highlights one of the problems with Thai academia. Almost all Thai academics are in those positions because they came from a family that could afford their education and they showed no proficiency at any other vocation. I know many Thai academics, They come up with the most bizarre ideas and interpretations of the world around them than any single group I know of. I think its because they've never been responsible for or to anyone in their lives. Most of them retired the day they graduated and like to tell you what school they went to, which might impress another Thai, but we foreigners no all the schools here are pretty much shit because they're all wrapped in Thai culture.

Edited September 20, 2011 by serenitynow

[geovalin]

OMG! TheNation relapses. Are the invisible hands so upset that they prepare the next coup?

[Arkady]

The problem here seems to be the selectivity of cancelling all legislation produced by only one coup. Under Thailand's judicial system any law published in the Royal Gazette is a law, regardless of whether it came from the parliamentary process, from an executive decree or a revolutionary decree. There are thousands of revolutionary decrees on the books that are still in use. The previous Foreign Business Act was even a revolutionary decree and a part of the Nationality Act that is still in force today is too. The law regarding hours that alcohol sales under 10 litres can be sold is also a revolutionary decree. To be consistent they should declare all of these revolutionary decrees null and void and prosecute all leaders of all past coups for the death penalty offence of treason, since the amnesties they issued themselves will be revoked.

That is why The Nation thinks (hopes) it is a tough call but as DPM Chalerm says, based on the wisdom of his Ramkhamhaeng doctorate in law, anything can happen, if the majority of the people agree with it. Perhaps the "law of the majority" will find its way into the next constitution and we will be having referenda to decide everything, including the verdicts in hi-so murder trials.

[qualtrough]

Although there is no credible justification to seize power, the political turbulence in 2005 should be examined in order to get a full picture of what went wrong. The coup did not just come out of nowhere.

This paragraph contradicts itself.

[inquisitive]

Although there is no credible justification to seize power, the political turbulence in 2005 should be examined in order to get a full picture of what went wrong. The coup did not just come out of nowhere.

This paragraph contradicts itself.

I guess I am just dense then, because I don't see any contradiction. There are three statements that you quote: 1) there is no justification to seize power; 2) the political turbulence in 2005 should be examined; and 3) the coup did not come out of nowhere. My best guess is that you believe that statements 1 and 3 conflict, but if that is correct, then you are most asuredly wrong. Statement 3 did not say that there was justification to seize power. It simpy said that the coup did not come out of nowhere. That is not a justification, just an observation.

Or perhaps I missed something?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[notime]

Garbage article. Who ordered that stuff? The establishment just simply run out of ideas to surpress the democratic processes and to justify the last coup and are going around circles repeating nonsense phrases.. "beating up the froth". Even the title reads like a line from "The Lord of the Rings".

[brd]

Has any one EVER imagined THAILAND without its Thai Royal Army ?

Would it be a Democracy when few could grab it all for themselves ?

Though a lot has been achieved compared to neighborhood countries isn't it !

For ever, large Thai ( Chinese indeed ) business families want the power and one Loudest Talker stick his neck out from a group supporting his views to become the PM of course with expectations in return.

When politically that has become a nuisance for The Thai Nation indeed The Thai Royal Army has to clean it up and they do it more often softly than deadly....

[whybother]

Has any one EVER imagined THAILAND without its Thai Royal Army ?

Would it be a Democracy when few could grab it all for themselves ?

Though a lot has been achieved compared to neighborhood countries isn't it !

For ever, large Thai ( Chinese indeed ) business families want the power and one Loudest Talker stick his neck out from a group supporting his views to become the PM of course with expectations in return.

When politically that has become a nuisance for The Thai Nation indeed The Thai Royal Army has to clean it up and they do it more often softly than deadly....

"Has any one EVER imagined THAILAND without its Thai Royal Army ?"

I would imagine that the south would be Malaysia, a lot of the north west would be Burma, the east would be Cambodia, and a little of the north east would be Laos.

[animatic]

The art of political negotiation and compromise in Thailand is even less able and understood than in the USA, and that is a low water bench mark to supersede, but Thailand does this by light years of LACK of progress.

It is an all or nothing game here, much like a war of attrition, but a false front of moralism thrown infront of the battle, like a shadow puppet curtain. We see the dancers, but don't see the knives thrust BEHIND their backs in the shadows. But we see the bodies fall and when enough fall, the scene changes and the act repeats with the inverse characters taking the fall.

They don't seem able or willing to reinvent their way of interactive functioning to include the altruistic instinct, since that has nothing to do with increasing personal face, through acquisitiveness, power grabbing and manipulations of those deemed lesser beings in the 'Face Score Sheet' battle to WIN ALL before you die.

Edited September 20, 2011 by animatic

[soylentgreen]

It would seem as if the aim of the interested parties is to create the first Anarchist state in the world.

Sounds like a great idea, the French tried it 140 years ago, the Ukrainians tried it 90 years ago, the Spanish tried it 75 years ago, maybe now's the time for the Thai people to wake up and taste the freedom and solidarity that is their birth right, instead of perpetual slavery to the Thai-Chinese elites?

In Spain, in many areas in Valencia, Catalunia and Aragon, they burnt all the Land Title Deeds and money, each district printed their own coupons for food, etc. The workers took over the factories and kicked out the bosses. The best hotels in Barcelona were turned into communal canteens. Prostitutes were given rifles and joined voluntary battalions. 555

the Spanish Revolution

[yoshiwara]

The fundamental objective of this group's 'ranting and raving' is to de-legitimise everything post 2006 in order to open the door for Thaksin to come back wearing a clean shirt, or at least that's what they hope. What is increasingly driving them up the wall is that they thought Thaksin's return would be a simple little matter and are now finding out that it isn't. Now they are wondering whether a return to form ie a little street violence might be in order. Things would be easier for them if the Democrats were still running the government and then the reds would splutter with confusion a little less. The academic leadership of this group: what a shower!

[longtimepassed]

OF COURSE its a garbage article - it doesnt say the red shirts/PTP/Thaksin are right does it? However one sentence rings true -

The red shirts will find their efforts in vain to prevent a repeat of the power seizure if they focus on condemning the military, but neglect to address political issues which triggered the coup.

........going back on every policy they made during the election except the one to bring a convicted criminal back to take the reigns of the country AWAY from democracy is a sure fire way to drum up support for a coup-as it was in 2006

[phiphidon]

It would seem as if the aim of the interested parties is to create the first Anarchist state in the world.

Make your mind up! Just 5 days ago you were accusing the UDD of being communists. Now which is it?

Posted 2011-09-15 10:11:14

Sorry Rubl

I have to disagree with you on this one, below is the true agenda of the U.D.D

http://www.thaivisa....bangkok-18-sep/

[rubl]

It would seem as if the aim of the interested parties is to create the first Anarchist state in the world.

<image anarchist>

Make your mind up! Just 5 days ago you were accusing the UDD of being communists. Now which is it?

Posted 2011-09-15 10:11:14

Sorry Rubl

I have to disagree with you on this one, below is the true agenda of the U.D.D

<image red>

http://www.thaivisa....bangkok-18-sep/

Did it occur to you that 'legal opponents of the coup' and 'UDD' might not be synonyms ?

[HAL9000]

Why not just use the US Constitution?

We're not using it anymore.

[rubl]

Why not just use the US Constitution?

We're not using it anymore.

I'm sure the gesture is appreciated, but even then we cannot accept. Nothing personal, nothing against the USA, but it's one of those universal human rights things: The right to write your own constitution, the right to make your own mistakes, and a few more like that

[siampolee]

phiphidon # 19

Make your mind up! Just 5 days ago you were accusing the UDD of being communists. Now which is it?

Look at the scenario.

So many different factions fighting for power and their right to control this nation, Communist and Anarchists fought side by side in the Spanish revolution, the French, Greek and Italian Resistance movements in the last war 1939-1945.

This is currently the situation within Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Egypt and many other states around the world that are in civil conflict. Political and religious principals will always relegate democracy as we have seen over the centuries in this world.

None of the groups are or in fact were averse to betraying or killing the other if they thought there was political or religious mileage in the matter

All those aforementioned groups are, were fired up with the common aim of their own agenda's being the main objective.

The cause of resistance and freedom was indeed a cloak of deception for these groups.

The U.D.D. Red Shirts, Red Siam etc. etc. all those splinter groups are engaged in infighting in their attempts to force their ideology onto the Thai people. A mirror image of the situation already mentioned above.

"Politicians make strange bedfellows."

Edited September 21, 2011 by siampolee

[chaoyang]

In addition to probing what Thaksin did to "deserve" it as part of the background, any discussion should include the role of various unelected forces and their continued interference, if any, in the democratic process.

[tominbkk]

It would seem as if the aim of the interested parties is to create the first Anarchist state in the world.

Except for the one true master of Thailand that nobody is allowed to talk about.

[tig28]

The Nation article conveniently overlooks what is possibly the the most damming condemnation of the 2006 coup -- it was perpetrated just 26 days before scheduled National Elections.

It is obvious that the "Coup makers" intention was to prevent the electorate from deciding the matter.

[whybother]

The Nation article conveniently overlooks what is possibly the the most damming condemnation of the 2006 coup -- it was perpetrated just 26 days before scheduled National Elections.

It is obvious that the "Coup makers" intention was to prevent the electorate from deciding the matter.

Except that date was going to be delayed until late November because of problems with the Election Commission. (that delay was mentioned before the coup occurred)

Edited September 21, 2011 by whybother

[animatic]

Why not just use the US Constitution?

We're not using it anymore.

I'm sure the gesture is appreciated, but even then we cannot accept. Nothing personal, nothing against the USA, but it's one of those universal human rights things: The right to write your own constitution, the right to make your own mistakes, and a few more like that

Well Jefferson DID borrow from other places to write Constitution 1, and the Bill of Rights also borrowed.

As some one said there is nothing new under the sun, just different groupings of the old into newer forms.

[animatic]

The Nation article conveniently overlooks what is possibly the the most damming condemnation of the 2006 coup -- it was perpetrated just 26 days before scheduled National Elections.

It is obvious that the "Coup makers" intention was to prevent the electorate from deciding the matter.

Except that date was going to be delayed until late November because of problems with the Election Commission. (that delay was mentioned before the coup occurred)

Not to mention the attempts to create a state of emergency with Caretaker Thaksin in control.... remember that ludicrously Fake Bomb attack on him... round one in the take over, likely with others planned. A certain P, playing double agent, till meeting T in China and letting the charade fall. Only to return and name C as leader of the Revolutionary Army... with out telling C in advance.

They tried the SOE again under Samak, but the army wouldn't play ball, knowing what it really meant.

Edited September 21, 2011 by animatic

[HAL9000]

I'm sure the gesture is appreciated, but even then we cannot accept. Nothing personal, nothing against the USA, but it's one of those universal human rights things: The right to write your own constitution, the right to make your own mistakes, and a few more like that

Alrighty! Maybe I can just point your way to avoiding some pitfalls.

First, this video discusses the difference between governing on principles versus legislation, or in other words, a cultivating a people who do what's right instead of passing a million laws to prevent people from doing what's wrong:

http://www.glennbeck.com/2011/09/19/is-the-constitution-a-secular-document/

Second, this article explains the difference between governing by negative rights versus positive rights, and the dangers of the latter:

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2011/09/pyramid-of-positive-rights.html

[Ricardo]

Not to mention the attempts to create a state of emergency with Caretaker Thaksin in control.... remember that ludicrously Fake Bomb attack on him... round one in the take over, likely with others planned. A certain P, playing double agent, till meeting T in China and letting the charade fall. Only to return and name C as leader of the Revolutionary Army... with out telling C in advance.

They tried the SOE again under Samak, but the army wouldn't play ball, knowing what it really meant.

Remember that one, I heard that dear Chavalit nearly choked on his breakfast, when he heard he had been appointed 'Supreme Commander of the People's Army of Thailand', later known as the 'patsies', reportedly following a meeting of core Red-Shirt leaders with former-PM Thaksin in Dubai !

He rushed to deny the report, saying that setting up a people's army might cause his junior friends in the military to be worried, and that "it is impossible for me to become the supreme commander of such army because my brother, Gen. Songkitti Jakkrabatra who is the supreme commander, will feel uneasy". (Source 'The Nation', 4th February 2010)

This was all in happier times, before the Red-Shirts' 'peaceful protest', and the later appearance of the Black-Shirts, and the sad events of last year. It seems less funny now.

Edited September 21, 2011 by Ricardo