Truant Builder

[ozsamurai]

We started a simple extension to a house a few months back 48m2. Apart from the usual hassles with the builder, demanding extra for everything (which we paid) even though it was agrred in the price, things have been moving along all but slowly. But this last week things have come to a crawl, not turning up days on end. Now, the whole project is only 400k, we still have the last 100k to pay, 50 on completion and 50 after moved in. The place is no where near completion, no plumbing, no tiling, no ceiling, doors etc. Now everyday when we call the guy, he just says he is waiting for the renderer or something. We asked if he is OK for money, no request for more, but he's just not doing the job. What if anything do you think could be done to URGE him to get the thing finished. Originally the promise was 1 month, well as of today its 2 months and like I said the shell is there only. Any advise appreciated. Basically he is dragging his butt and time wasting I feel.

Oz

[norrona]

let me get this right...you paid 75% for just the shell to be put up?

visit the wat mate, this fellas got you by the short n curlys on this

[ozsamurai]

Yeah thats really good advise...keep it up helps alot

What has been done

- Roof w/insulation

- walls finished (90%) rendered, door jams set

- bracing for the ceiling

- in wall wiring (90%)

Floor tiles etc.. are on site, material is there just no one working at it.

so you could say its more than 75% complete, I have no prob with the progress for money, but the progress has stopped, this is my question.

Oz

[rgs2001uk]

Where has the 300k gone?

'the builder, demanding extra for everything (which we paid)' have you actually seen what you paid for?

'no plumbing, no tiling, no ceiling, doors etc' did you buy all these materials yourself, or did the builder just ask for money to buy them but hasnt?

Sounds to me like he has done you like a kipper, you will never see him again, probably pissing it up right now laughing and joking with his drinking buddies about the dumb farang he ripped off.

[Dag]

Question is can you finish it off for 100k ??

if so get another builder in pronto.

[transam]

Must agree with the others. The guy has done the easy stuff, taken your cash, and now stuff he must buy, that you have paid for, he is doing a runner.

[zzaa09]

Must agree with the others. The guy has done the easy stuff, taken your cash, and now stuff he must buy, that you have paid for, he is doing a runner.

Yes, always be cautious to loads of cash up front.

Much more diligent to apply the pay-as-you-go-method. Quite acceptable in most cases.

Water under the bridge.....but it will behoove one to check out the contractor beforehand and <deleted> keep complete control of the game.

[cardholder]

You can build a house for for 400k where I live.

[norrona]

Yeah thats really good advise...keep it up helps alot

What has been done

- Roof w/insulation

- walls finished (90%) rendered, door jams set

- bracing for the ceiling

- in wall wiring (90%)

Floor tiles etc.. are on site, material is there just no one working at it.

so you could say its more than 75% complete, I have no prob with the progress for money, but the progress has stopped, this is my question.

Oz

sorry to have been too blunt, I wasn't laughing at you or anything....

to be fair though you have been a member of this site for a while and must have read all the stories etc.

I wish you well and hope he does the right thing :jap:

[zzaa09]

You can build a house for for 400k where I live.

Quite true. One needn't spend a bladdy fortune for your lovely new house.....even extensions!!!

B400K to B500K will suffice nicely.

Edited September 21, 2011 by zzaa09

[cardholder]

Yeah thats really good advise...keep it up helps alot

What has been done

- Roof w/insulation

- walls finished (90%) rendered, door jams set

- bracing for the ceiling

- in wall wiring (90%)

Floor tiles etc.. are on site, material is there just no one working at it.

so you could say its more than 75% complete, I have no prob with the progress for money, but the progress has stopped, this is my question.

Oz

sorry to have been too blunt, I wasn't laughing at you or anything....

to be fair though you have been a member of this site for a while and must have read all the stories etc.

I wish you well and hope he does the right thing :jap:

Me too but I think you have seen the last of the original builder. If you are content that the work completed is reflective of the amount paid then just try and get another builder to 'finish off' - I suspect that a slight premium will be payable.

[ludditeman]

300k will build a 2 or 3 bedroom house.

Must be a good extension.

Your builder has taken his profit, and no longer needs to do the work.

This sort of thing happens in every country in the world, not just Thailand.

[ozsamurai]

Of course I had entertained the idea of getting a new builder to finish off the job, just wondered what the legality of it is? He has not said he is not doing it anymore, yet is not showing up to work. As I said materials are on site, we made sure of that, went with him to buy the stuff. I was happy with the price, 7000 a sqm and yes its more of a flat than an extension. This area is OmYai and trust me this is the best price considering its 20min from BKK, I did my homework.

[Tonto21]

Hi 'ozsamurai'……Bummer a! You must be pissed….So I'll try not to; "should have done this…..should have done that" to much.

Would I be right in thinking this price included the materials? Sorry, but I feel first mistake; you'll always get well stiffed on the materials.

Just my opinion, (I have built a house here) Agree price for labor only, You get all bits and bobs…materials, I know it's a pain in the ass, but in most cases, any work done by craftsmen in Thailand needs supervision…….If you don't show interest in what's going on, EG; taking close look at what they' re-doing, you have to act as a Forman (don't matter if you know squat about building) and controlling the supply's……….If you don't, they will, in general see you as a soft touch!

After agreeing set price for labor, YOU go for settling the bill at the end of the job, if they kick at that…Stage payments…IE; roof up and after inspected……Stage payment, brick work, skim and tile……Stage payment. This way you're never out of pocket, you only ever pay for what's been done to your requirements and satisfaction, (as laid down with the builder when you set this up) if they ever want to do a runner, you're ahead of the game…..There loss. As for 50% payment at start…..<deleted> that for……..Whisky?, if you’re

buying the materials they don’t need money to start….Weed out the wanke_rs before the job starts!

I know this is not what you want to hear, I don't know what to tell you, apart from you're not alone, I was lucky, I had some sound advice, (which I followed) before starting to build.

Do you have all the materials on site? If so, cut and run, this fooker is just going to take you for more if he can. Get a new guy in and do as above….It will save a heart attack and get the job finished.

I do feel for you, best of luck.

Edited September 22, 2011 by Rimmer
Font Size see posting guidelines

[bifftastic]

He's on another job mate! He probably intends to finish yours but another one has come along and he's taken it.

The initial money he gets from that is worth more to him than the remainder of your money.

Tell him you know he's on another job and you don't care, you just want yours finished asap. If he doesn't show up, get someone else in to finish it, or wait.

If you get someone else in, they might have a walk around the site scratching their chin trying to think of ways to stick more money on the job, but if you want it done, you might want to pay them a little extra, depends how desperate you are to get it done quickly

[rgs2001uk]

Of course I had entertained the idea of getting a new builder to finish off the job, just wondered what the legality of it is? He has not said he is not doing it anymore, yet is not showing up to work. As I said materials are on site, we made sure of that, went with him to buy the stuff. I was happy with the price, 7000 a sqm and yes its more of a flat than an extension. This area is OmYai and trust me this is the best price considering its 20min from BKK, I did my homework.

I am not trying to be funny here, but what exactly is your 7000 per s/m getting for you?

You have already said you are buying all the materials.

Is he charging 7k just for labour, if so he is taking the piss.

I have seen houses advertised for 9k baht per s/m Grade A (yes take that with a large pinch of salt) this prices includes everything, tiling, electrics, plumbing etc etc.

Did your guy have a written contract?

[ozsamurai]

7000 was all inclusive, but I didn't trust him to get the materials as a lot of money was out so I made sure that at any stage we handed over cash, we went with him that day to get the materials ready to take the construction to the next stage. I have been supervising the work, travelling back and forth weekly to the build. The stuff is there and he aint. As I said before, he started to add 'options' which made me clamp down. For eg. He suggests to mum we have a step here or something, says to Mum, he will do it, never mentions he is going to charge us 4500Bht for it to her only when we go there. I say no, I can get a truck of cement for that, these kind of things. I think at this stage I will get another builder or two to take a look, at least and get a ballpark to completion. Im in no hurry, but this guy thinks I am perhaps. You've all advised as I thought, go get someone else and cut ur losses with this guy. I was just wondering whether or not there was any way to MAKE him finish as he promised (no beat him up comments pls). Amphur? Master builders Association...lol? that kind of pressure to jolt him a bit.

Oz

[David006]

Yup as others say he is on another job...

since it's only 4 weeks or so you could wait and wait....

What would I do? ....Wait another week or so and contact him ( probably use a different phone as he may not answer yours)

If you cannot contact him or get the run around then get the wife or.. to find one or two guys capable of doing the work ( lotsa guys can tile,plaster and fit doors etc at 300 a day). ...for ceilings go to specific gyproc supplier.... they usually supply and fit so will have their own people. good luck

[jackdawson]

Great post.

Thanks for that.

[nocturn]

Yeah thats really good advise...keep it up helps alot

What has been done

- Roof w/insulation

- walls finished (90%) rendered, door jams set

- bracing for the ceiling

- in wall wiring (90%)

Floor tiles etc.. are on site, material is there just no one working at it.

so you could say its more than 75% complete, I have no prob with the progress for money, but the progress has stopped, this is my question.

Oz

sorry to have been too blunt, I wasn't laughing at you or anything....

to be fair though you have been a member of this site for a while and must have read all the stories etc.

I wish you well and hope he does the right thing :jap:

to be fair though, longevity of membership on Thai Visa hardly exempts one from being stupid.

not directed at the OP, just a general observation.

[ozsamurai]

No I read all the threads, played it by the game rules, and still $hit happened..... as I said the gear is there, if I could build myself I would. I really posted just to find out if there was any legal/moral action I could take to get it done before I write him off

Oz

[rgs2001uk]

Ok the 7k all in price is reasonable.

If you have a written contract and wish to engage in an excercise in futility go to your local police station.

Another thing not mentioned, has anyone at the house pissed this guy off, many times these guys just walk off a job because of the attitude of the owners, not saying thats what happened here but cant be ruled out.

[steelepulse]

Next time include a clause for not finishing on time. Every day past a certain time comes out of the final amount he is due. Buy all the materials yourself. You want this guy to basically do the manual labor while you take care of the rest. I agree with other posters that this guy has another job and seeing as he's collected most of the cash from you, you're not a priority.

[meatboy]

going with the builder to the suppliers dont mean a thing because the suppliers will add on extra on the price and split it with the builder,we sent our brother inlaw to price all the materials for an extension,then went ourselves,diff.price,we then asked a builder to give us a quote came back next day no diff.if we had purchased the materials ourselves or our brother inlaw.when you give all the details to the supplier/builder they will work together.i have seen one small job and one big job where the house owners has had to get someone else in to finnish and correct the work [both owners thai] where are you living because this chap that done our ext.and the other two is good.

[WebBangkok]

We spent a lot of money on our house extension, renovation which was suppose to only take 3 months. It was actually a hell of a lot of work and I knew it would take longer.

It was finally done and took over a year to do, the thing is my father in-law is a developer and is much more picky than I am, he helped a lot but made the workers do things again if they stuffed it up or wasnt to his standards. He made sure they gave us quality and not take short cuts, he was constantly standing behind them and just watching them work and telling them to do it this way or that way.

After a month they started taking days off because they said he was being too hard on them lol I seen first hand that my father in-law was right to always watch them because I constantly saw them doing shortcuts too. Had some workers steal a few thousand baht for things, but a year later we got the job done and it was done very well.

I am glad it took this long because it at least was a good job, I would of hate to of seen the difference in quality if it only took 3 months. My house probably would of fallen down after a heavy downfall or something.

I think it's not in your best interest to hurry them along or they will take short cuts, I fed them lunch everyday (cheap soi food) made them take there time and do quality work and even though it took awhile I am happy with the results. I think it also depends on the job, if they are only putting up a wall or something then its different, but major renovations you might want to make sure they do it properly and give them extra time if needed, especially if you are spending a lot of money on it.

[scorecard]

No I read all the threads, played it by the game rules, and still $hit happened..... as I said the gear is there, if I could build myself I would. I really posted just to find out if there was any legal/moral action I could take to get it done before I write him off

Oz

We all learn along the way. My Thai son has a good friend (Thai guy, pleasant, would never cheat anybody) who built a house in CM last year.

He did a lot of research in advance.

Offered 20% deposit to the builder, but only after builder produced a list with approx. prices of essentials to be bought to get started. And he checked that everything was promptly delivered to the site.

He then started a process of weekly targets, with payment at the end of each week if targets met, plus 100,000Baht final payment upon moving in.

He visited the site almost every day, took drinks snacks etc for the workers every day, but never alcohol. Privately offered the 6 main workers a bonus of 10,000Baht when house fully completed and with good quality. And he mentioned there would be no additional bonus payments for friends etc.

House was completed about two weeks late, but no serious lapses in attendance etc, and with good quality, and he did promptly pay the workers their 10,000Baht bonus. But he also says 'I got lucky'.

[Dave9000]

Suggest he has landed a new job and will use the profit from your job to date to finance his materials for the new job. I would check his address and do a sleuthing job. If he has buggered off, cop it and get a new builder (you might find one working on the new project with your old builder), otherwise, he may genuinely be waiting for supplies to finish the job...or he might have run out of credit with the building materials supplier. My limited experience in Thailand suggests to me that Thais have little stomach for confrontation; thus, a quiet word away from his mates and family may pay dividends.