Thai Youngsters Have Nothing Against Cheating: Survey

[webfact]

SURVEY

Youngsters have nothing against cheating

By The Nation

Children between the ages of 10 and 14 are showing greater acceptance of cheating in games and exams, the Health Systems Research Institute (HSRI) disclosed in its findings yesterday.

The survey, involving 9,035 children in 21 provinces, was conducted to determine their health in relation to emotion, society and ethics. This was the fourth such survey.

"When compared to the 2001 survey, scores in creativity, analytical thinking, problem solving and emotional control are low," Dr Wichai Aekplakorn, from the Mahidol University's Faculty of Medicine Ramathibodi Hospital, said yesterday.

He said, according to the survey, children between the ages of one and five, especially boys, needed to learn obedience and compassion. As for those between six and nine, Wichai said, the overall scores had dropped especially in terms of compassion, concentration, and emotional control.

"Boys in this group have low scores in terms of discipline, while their female peers have low scores in concentration," he said, adding that those between the ages of 10 and 14 showed greater acceptance of cheating in exams and games.

"They have the tendency to cheat if given the opportunity, especially in exams," he said, comparing the latest findings to results from previous surveys.

Wichai said many parents these days did not know how to raise their children.

Dr Amporn Benjaponpitak, who heads the Mental Health Department's Bureau of Mental Health Technical Development, said children nowadays lacked discipline.

"They often don't put away their toys, and parents use harsh words to discipline them and the children learn to behave the same way," she said, urging parents and teachers to become good examples for the youngsters.

HSRI director Pongpisut Jongudomsuk, meanwhile, said he would present the findings to Public Health Minister Witthaya Buranasiri.

-- The Nation 2011-09-22

[jonclark]

I think the children behavior reflects perfectly that of the politicians that lead this (once) great country. Can't blame the kids - its the adults that need fixing first; after all the kids only copy what is put in front of them.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

I think the children behavior reflects perfectly that of the politicians that lead this (once) great country. Can't blame the kids - its the adults that need fixing first; after all the kids only copy what is put in front of them.

You are 100% correct and thanks for starting out the response section with a statement of fact that is not based on myth. When a certain person came into office, the message was sent out loud and clear: money is the only thing that matters and feel free to do anything to get it, including lying, cheating, stealing, etc. Morality flew out the window! Morality is no longer even flying; it is in the trash bin. The country has set itself up for a major downfall as large numbers of upset (due to their economic situation) and immoral (due to the dominant cultural ethos) youth reach an age to "act." Whether the act will be violent or not is the question. I am guessing it will be violent and preceded by a crime wave. Maybe I am wrong.

[Kalbo]

I think the children behavior reflects perfectly that of the politicians that lead this (once) great country. Can't blame the kids - its the adults that need fixing first; after all the kids only copy what is put in front of them.

You are 100% correct and thanks for starting out the response section with a statement of fact that is not based on myth. When a certain person came into office, the message was sent out loud and clear: money is the only thing that matters and feel free to do anything to get it, including lying, cheating, stealing, etc. Morality flew out the window! Morality is no longer even flying; it is in the trash bin. The country has set itself up for a major downfall as large numbers of upset (due to their economic situation) and immoral (due to the dominant cultural ethos) youth reach an age to "act." Whether the act will be violent or not is the question. I am guessing it will be violent and preceded by a crime wave. Maybe I am wrong.

I agree with you. My opinion is based on my own experiences in the Philippines, which is horribly corrupt, ethically,socially and morally, and can see a similar pattern happening in Thailand. If it's any consolation,

I also think that it will be a few years before it's anyway near as bad as the Philippines.

[kerryk]

I think the children behavior reflects perfectly that of the politicians that lead this (once) great country. Can't blame the kids - its the adults that need fixing first; after all the kids only copy what is put in front of them.

You are 100% correct and thanks for starting out the response section with a statement of fact that is not based on myth. When a certain person came into office, the message was sent out loud and clear: money is the only thing that matters and feel free to do anything to get it, including lying, cheating, stealing, etc. Morality flew out the window! Morality is no longer even flying; it is in the trash bin. The country has set itself up for a major downfall as large numbers of upset (due to their economic situation) and immoral (due to the dominant cultural ethos) youth reach an age to "act." Whether the act will be violent or not is the question. I am guessing it will be violent and preceded by a crime wave. Maybe I am wrong.

Let me guess that certain person was PM Plaek Pibulsonggram. Who makes anyone who has held office in the past 20 years seem like a Saint.

Edited September 22, 2011 by kerryk

[rakman]

I think the children behavior reflects perfectly that of the politicians that lead this (once) great country. Can't blame the kids - its the adults that need fixing first; after all the kids only copy what is put in front of them.

You are 100% correct and thanks for starting out the response section with a statement of fact that is not based on myth. When a certain person came into office, the message was sent out loud and clear: money is the only thing that matters and feel free to do anything to get it, including lying, cheating, stealing, etc. Morality flew out the window! Morality is no longer even flying; it is in the trash bin. The country has set itself up for a major downfall as large numbers of upset (due to their economic situation) and immoral (due to the dominant cultural ethos) youth reach an age to "act." Whether the act will be violent or not is the question. I am guessing it will be violent and preceded by a crime wave. Maybe I am wrong.

I agree with you. My opinion is based on my own experiences in the Philippines, which is horribly corrupt, ethically,socially and morally, and can see a similar pattern happening in Thailand. If it's any consolation,

I also think that it will be a few years before it's anyway near as bad as the Philippines.

Sort of like the rioting Uni students in the UK? It seems to be happening the world over.

[Jaivin2011]

Is this a joke or what? Why are they so concerned about moral values in youngsters when the adults of this country have no a single cell of morality in them. Look at the Politicains, The Hi-Sos, the Celebrity sluts, etc.....its a joke.....thai youngsters that thought that its ok to cheat, like or steal or even sell ur bodies as long as you have money and material wealth. Just stroll around places like the bridge near Saphan Phut, or the parks near Central Lardphrao, or drive down pass "Wang Sala Rom" where you can see kids as young as 10 selling their bodies and the police not doing anything and the patrons are all thai adults!

I know of HiSos who cheat like crazy.....but always get away just because of their names but unfortunately the stupid majority of their population envies these lifestyles and tales.

This country is beyong salvation but then again, I do not care....just take advantage of the loopholes in the system and make ur bucks here and screw the locals!

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Let me guess that certain person was PM Plaek Pibulsonggram. Who makes anyone who has held office in the past 20 years seem like a Saint.

Wrong guess. Here is a hint: He is a wanted criminal, extraordinarily wealthy, and controls a puppet from a distance.

[kerryk]

Let me guess that certain person was PM Plaek Pibulsonggram. Who makes anyone who has held office in the past 20 years seem like a Saint.

Wrong guess. Here is a hint: He is a wanted criminal, extraordinarily wealthy, and controls a puppet from a distance.

Need to brush up on your Thai history a bit.

[hammered]

I think the children behavior reflects perfectly that of the politicians that lead this (once) great country. Can't blame the kids - its the adults that need fixing first; after all the kids only copy what is put in front of them.

It goes far wider than just politicians who are only a reflection of society too, and in fact they arent the ones influencing the kids who dont even care about politics or those involved. They see what their own families have to put up with and what the local wealthy and their kids can do and get away with. Local peers and role models are the problem more than distant ones but eventually everything just reflects societal values. Kids learn quick. Technology and increased movement also expose families to more than in the past.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

Let me guess that certain person was PM Plaek Pibulsonggram. Who makes anyone who has held office in the past 20 years seem like a Saint.

Wrong guess. Here is a hint: He is a wanted criminal, extraordinarily wealthy, and controls a puppet from a distance.

Need to brush up on your Thai history a bit.

Why? Do you actually think I am not aware that Thailand has had some bad leaders in the past? No need to answer. The survey shows a change over the past ten years (not the past 60 years). So, how does one account for a ten year change? I think I stated the reason along with other posters. Can we stick to the topic, please? Thanks.

[Thaddeus]

Thailand: Hub of constantly stating the bleedin' obvious.

[kerryk]

Let me guess that certain person was PM Plaek Pibulsonggram. Who makes anyone who has held office in the past 20 years seem like a Saint.

Wrong guess. Here is a hint: He is a wanted criminal, extraordinarily wealthy, and controls a puppet from a distance.

Need to brush up on your Thai history a bit.

Why? Do you actually think I am not aware that Thailand has had some bad leaders in the past? No need to answer. The survey shows a change over the past ten years (not the past 60 years). So, how does one account for a ten year change? I think I stated the reason along with other posters. Can we stick to the topic, please? Thanks.

How on earth can a PM effect the ethics of children when he has only been in power for ten years.

I know you don't like the guy but be real. It takes generations to effect a change in ethics.

A complete moral and ethical leadership in Thailand might have some effect on children of the next generation.

A lot of Thai children are raised by grandparents and it is really the ethics of the grandparents that are being brought into question along with parents who do actually raise their own children.

What you are seeing today is the result of what happened many years ago.

All children have role models first in the home. It will be a lot easier to stop smoking in the next generation because this generation is being conditioned that it is wrong and harmful.

Ethics are even more ingrained in a culture than the trappings of exterior behavior like smoking and drinking. If you wanted to switch Thais from drinking whiskey to wine you couldn't do it in one generation let alone ten years. 50 years maybe.

For the reasons for cheating in school today look to what happened 50 years ago to create role models of the parents and grandparents of today.

[robint]

Screw me Captain Mannering

This is a refreshing bit of Honesty from the kids - yes of course cheating is ok if you get away with it.

Just look at the UK and MPs expenses

In fact just look at any country's leadership if you want to learn about lying, stealing and cheating

Its just that Thais have turned it into a fun sport.

BTW its fortunate I wasnt born Thai, I'd show them a thing or two

Robin B'Stard

[Awohalitsiktoli]

How on earth can a PM effect the ethics of children when he has only been in power for ten years.

I know you don't like the guy but be real. It takes generations to effect a change in ethics.

A complete moral and ethical leadership in Thailand might have some effect on children of the next generation.

A lot of Thai children are raised by grandparents and it is really the ethics of the grandparents that are being brought into question along with parents who do actually raise their own children.

What you are seeing today is the result of what happened many years ago.

All children have role models first in the home. It will be a lot easier to stop smoking in the next generation because this generation is being conditioned that it is wrong and harmful.

Ethics are even more ingrained in a culture than the trappings of exterior behavior like smoking and drinking. If you wanted to switch Thais from drinking whiskey to wine you couldn't do it in one generation let alone ten years. 50 years maybe.

For the reasons for cheating in school today look to what happened 50 years ago to create role models of the parents and grandparents of today.

Change is happening worldwide at a fast pace, mainly due to the access to and impact of the mass/social media. It is possible to create rapid change in the modern world. The events in the Middle East show this. Again, the survey shows a change over the past ten years. Who are what was responsible for that? Virtually every person on ThaiVisa knows the answer. Surely not grandparents of present generations Leadership is important and it is too bad that political leaders worldwide are little more than snake-oil salesmen in disguise. Influential leaders (think of them as powerful role models) can guide people in a positive or negative direction. And they use the mass/social media to do it.

[SICHONSTEVE]

"They often don't put away their toys".

I thought that the subject string was supposed to be about children and not politicians, so whose made the mistake??.

Edited September 22, 2011 by SICHONSTEVE

[hammered]

Still musnt worry as the ministry of culture has quite an interesting document recently released on how to raise your children which I am sure will solve everything.

[Toscano]

The childrens parents have no qualms about cheating either . Adult students are quite happy to pay a teacher to sit an exam and professional lecturers buy a PHD .

[kerryk]

"They often don't put away their toys".

I thought that the subject string was supposed to be about children and not politicians, so whose made the mistake??.

Very few political figures effect the entire culture. Gandhi in India. Stalin in Russia. Plaek Pibulsonggram in Thailand. It is quite conceivable that Plaek Pibulsonggram's drive toward Westernization is effecting the current generation of Thai youth. It is also reasonable to assume that before him Thailand might have been a more ethical place at least on a village level.

Other factors of course like the spread of INTERNET gaming also play a crucial factor.

What Plaek Pibulsonggram started when he began to substitute Western ideas for traditional Thai ideas and assigned a positive value to those Western values made a fertile ground for the media blitz which was to follow.

He is the only Thai politician that enacted such a large amount of radical changes in Thai traditional values. He changed the name of the country from Siam to Thailand and gave Thais an inferiority complex about Thai ways.

[Awohalitsiktoli]

"They often don't put away their toys".

I thought that the subject string was supposed to be about children and not politicians, so whose made the mistake??.

Very few political figures effect the entire culture. Gandhi in India. Stalin in Russia. Plaek Pibulsonggram in Thailand. It is quite conceivable that Plaek Pibulsonggram's drive toward Westernization is effecting the current generation of Thai youth. It is also reasonable to assume that before him Thailand might have been a more ethical place at least on a village level.

Other factors of course like the spread of INTERNET gaming also play a crucial factor.

What Plaek Pibulsonggram started when he began to substitute Western ideas for traditional Thai ideas and assigned a positive value to those Western values made a fertile ground for the media blitz which was to follow.

He is the only Thai politician that enacted such a large amount of radical changes in Thai traditional values. He changed the name of from the country from Siam to Thailand and gave Thais an inferiority complex about Thai ways.

You still do not seem to get it: this is about a change that has taken place in recent history (basically over the past ten years). Old ideas from the 50s were already in place ten years ago. So, something else took place to impact the children who took the poll. And I think you are totally wrong about your dinosaur politician being the only one to greatly impact Thai values. You apparently want to simply ignore an uncomfortable fact about your "hero."

[Berkshire]

For a little perspective:

A Cheating Crisis in America's Schools

"There's other people getting better grades than me and they're cheating. Why am I not going to cheat? It's kind of almost stupid if you don't," said Joe.

http://abcnews.go.co...d=132376&page=1

Tons of other articles like this. It's not really a Thai thing, is it?

[wintermute]

For a little perspective:

A Cheating Crisis in America's Schools

"There's other people getting better grades than me and they're cheating. Why am I not going to cheat? It's kind of almost stupid if you don't," said Joe.

http://abcnews.go.co...d=132376&page=1

Tons of other articles like this. It's not really a Thai thing, is it?

Everyone always dregs up this argument comparing Thailand with the U.K./U.S. and then saying "look we're no better" but it's a lazy argument at best. It's all about proportion. Name one Thai school that's comparable with Cal Tech, MIT, Harvard, etc.. There are still a TON of good U.S. schools that produce world class minds.

There's no such thing to be had in Thailand. Chulalongkorn is about on the level of a 2nd tier U.S. state university.

The company I work at regularly considers Thai uni students unemployable especially coming from the private tuition type schools and 2nd tier places in Bangkok. Good students from good schools are scouted for in advance in some places and the feeder system places them directly to top tier Thai companies. The others go work at Black Canyon and Home Pro where they belong.

Edited September 22, 2011 by wintermute

[Berkshire]

For a little perspective:

A Cheating Crisis in America's Schools

"There's other people getting better grades than me and they're cheating. Why am I not going to cheat? It's kind of almost stupid if you don't," said Joe.

http://abcnews.go.co...d=132376&page=1

Tons of other articles like this. It's not really a Thai thing, is it?

Everyone always dregs up this argument comparing Thailand with the U.K./U.S. and then saying "look we're no better" but it's a lazy argument at best. It's all about proportion. Name one Thai school that's comparable with Cal Tech, MIT, Harvard, etc.. There are still a TON of good U.S. schools that produce world class minds.

I hear you. And in fact, any time there are surveys of top universities in the world, the US dominates. Always. No other country in the world can touch the USA. Not one. International students from all over the world flock to the USA to study.

But nevertheless (and staying on-topic):

"A recent poll showed that 80 per cent of American university students admitted cheating."

http://www.telegraph...n-internet.html

Edited September 22, 2011 by Berkshire

[wintermute]

For a little perspective:

A Cheating Crisis in America's Schools

"There's other people getting better grades than me and they're cheating. Why am I not going to cheat? It's kind of almost stupid if you don't," said Joe.

http://abcnews.go.co...d=132376&page=1

Tons of other articles like this. It's not really a Thai thing, is it?

Everyone always dregs up this argument comparing Thailand with the U.K./U.S. and then saying "look we're no better" but it's a lazy argument at best. It's all about proportion. Name one Thai school that's comparable with Cal Tech, MIT, Harvard, etc.. There are still a TON of good U.S. schools that produce world class minds.

I hear you. And in fact, any time there are surveys of top universities in the world, the US dominates. Always. No other country in the world can touch the USA. Not one. International students from all over the world flock to the USA to study.

But nevertheless:

A recent poll showed that 80 per cent of American university students admitted cheating.

http://www.telegraph...n-internet.html

That poll doesn't tell us anything we don't already know the temptation to cheat is probably standard for students the world over. The difference is it hasn't been institutionalized as acceptable. In Thailand corruption, cheating, scamming, etc.. is just a way of life. It's a part of the system. Politicians do it. Students do it. Administrators and other middle men certainly do it. There's no such thing as fair play or ethical concerns in this regard. It's whatever you can get away with and then compose fiction to the public in order to save face. There's no real standards being upheld that's why there's been a slow decay in these "moral" values.

Plus there's this cultural narrative built up here that Thais are pure, moral, and jai dee people that aren't as bad as other countries. Whenever something bad happens in the country I see some Thai people try to draw comparisons at how this means other countries are bad at this or that and Thais are probably better. It's a combination of reveling in others' misfortune and a deep seeded inferiority complex that they always have to satiate. This doesn't happen with the majority but a lot of Thais certainly do think this way.

The problem with this group mentality is that real problems are rarely addressed in practical ways. Everyone is part of the same mass delusion that the country is near perfect (depending on the political side you're on) as it is.

Edited September 22, 2011 by wintermute

[djlest]

Thailand is not as bad as many western countries - but it is heading down rather than up...

Over the last 20 years - The capitalist machine has sunk its teeth deep into an already fragile and easy to manipulate nation.

Thais were always bred to be obedient, submissive, heirecial, and not an independent thinking nation.

That combined with massive media manipulation and non freedom of speech or critical thinking.

A regular brainwashing of soap operas, money, sex workers and a political storm of lies/propaganda and ulterior motives.

A monarchy that is near the end of its reign

And the country is on the verge of something - negative to say the least!

[kerryk]

"They often don't put away their toys".

I thought that the subject string was supposed to be about children and not politicians, so whose made the mistake??.

Very few political figures effect the entire culture. Gandhi in India. Stalin in Russia. Plaek Pibulsonggram in Thailand. It is quite conceivable that Plaek Pibulsonggram's drive toward Westernization is effecting the current generation of Thai youth. It is also reasonable to assume that before him Thailand might have been a more ethical place at least on a village level.

Other factors of course like the spread of INTERNET gaming also play a crucial factor.

What Plaek Pibulsonggram started when he began to substitute Western ideas for traditional Thai ideas and assigned a positive value to those Western values made a fertile ground for the media blitz which was to follow.

He is the only Thai politician that enacted such a large amount of radical changes in Thai traditional values. He changed the name of from the country from Siam to Thailand and gave Thais an inferiority complex about Thai ways.

You still do not seem to get it: this is about a change that has taken place in recent history (basically over the past ten years). Old ideas from the 50s were already in place ten years ago. So, something else took place to impact the children who took the poll. And I think you are totally wrong about your dinosaur politician being the only one to greatly impact Thai values. You apparently want to simply ignore an uncomfortable fact about your "hero."

I understand what you are saying but think the effects of recent politicians have been minimal.

Does the average Thai student behave differently than he or she did 10 years ago? Yes. Do they behave differently than they did 40 years ago? Yes.

Of all the politicians that have existed in Thailand for the last 100 years I can only think of one who has had an effect on education, Phibun.

I don't know about the UK, has there been a politician that has effected education?

In the US probably LBJ with his Great Society we are still feeling the effects of it today; good and bad.

In general I like the UK college education system better than the US. I like the closer contact between professor and student.

Watching Thai children cheat I became aware that there is little or no social stigma against cheating among children. The the teachers tried to stop it, but children did not get kicked out of school for cheating. I believe you get expelled from the military academes in the US for cheating. Still it goes on but there is a severe penalty for being caught.

Cheating is wrong and should be stopped. It is simple to do this. Kick them out of school if they cheat. Changing PM's is hardly going to stop cheating in school.

[JurgenG]

These kind of comments always me laugh. Since I can remember, people have always criticized the youngs for lacking the qualities that made their elders so great.

Just take the music. Rock was a communist plot, ""an elaborate calculated scientific technique aimed at rendering a generation of American youth neurotic through nerve-jamming, mental deterioration, and retardation". Then the rock generation said the same about the hippy generation, who said the same about the punk generation, who said the them about the hip hop generation .....

I really love this song from the 80's , still so actual (with an extra bonus "one more time" )

Edited September 22, 2011 by JurgenG

[ccarbaugh]

I had a (long-time) school teacher in Isaan explain to me at length that swindling, stealing, lying,... to a farang is perfectly acceptable because - "the money isn't the same."

[JurgenG]

I had a (long-time) school teacher in Isaan explain to me at length that swindling, stealing, lying,... to a farang is perfectly acceptable because - "the money isn't the same."

Almost all the westerners I know think that stealing from their company, their boss or the state is perfectly acceptable.How many time have we hear "it's ok, he can pay", meaning it's acceptable to cheat someone who can "afford" it. The logic is not much different than from your Isaan teacher.

How many time in I've seen the long time farang residents turning a blind eye when the new guy (westerner) in town is getting cheated. And the worst offender here are businesses operated by farangs, especially bars and guest houses.

Edited September 22, 2011 by JurgenG

[kerryk]

I had a (long-time) school teacher in Isaan explain to me at length that swindling, stealing, lying,... to a farang is perfectly acceptable because - "the money isn't the same."

I think the thread was about cheating in Thai schools. I don't think they asked the kids if it was OK to cheat a Farang. Although that would be an interesting poll. And is it more wrong to cheat a Korean or a Japanese or Vietnamese, Laotian. Everybody knows it is OK to cheat a Cambodian or Burmese.