Sacred Heart Nazi Sports Academy

[uptheos]

Or are we defending it along the lines "Thailand - the hub of sophisticated political themes and critical thought and expression".

I'm sure all the teachers at Sacred Heart are familiar with this (simplified) model

[uptheos]

I guess we will soon be getting a flood of "Remember the holocaust" posts.

I guess you were wrong.

[transam]

I guess we will soon be getting a flood of "Remember the holocaust" posts.

Does that bother you ?.

Are you a youngster who doesn't give a shit. ?

You certainly aren't Jewish to make a remark like that eh.

And no l am not Jewish but can remember.

[mallmagician]

After seeing the photos I think I see a Thai political message in this march. The logo on the black vest showed the seal of the Nazis and had printed on it RED NAZISM. When you add to this the fact they were all wearing red shirts I see a political influence there. This was drilled home to me when I opened the photo and my wife yells out "see dang, see dang". Oh well who knows.

There were different colored teams in the sports day. This was the red team. Nothing political, just the co our of their team. ....

Of course, a Thai seeing the image may assume it is political for obvious reasons, but not true as far as I'm aware.

Edited September 25, 2011 by mallmagician

[473geo]

Or are we defending it along the lines "Thailand - the hub of sophisticated political themes and critical thought and expression".

I'm sure all the teachers at Sacred Heart are familiar with this (simplified) model

The posters here appear to be jumping straight to no. 2 and have too much emphasis on 3A.& 3B........in my opinion of course

Edited September 25, 2011 by 473geo

[rebo]

There were different colored teams in the sports day. This was the red team. Nothing political, just the colour of their team. ....

Have one more look at the picture, Magician: I see a jacket/blouson which doesn't look like a cheap mass product with the Swastika and "Red Nazism" written below. The red sports day T-shirt is worn under this jacket. For me it seems this "logo" means more than a simple sports day team sign ...

This event --- A shame!

[LivinLOS]

When you consider the bru ha ha, that Thai establishment made, when an attractive aspiring starlet went to an awards show in her own time, with a revealing outfit.. Dragged in front of the moral police, made to cry and beg for forgiveness on national TV, almost thrown out of her uni (even tho it was nothing to do with them) you do kind of wonder what exact moral yardstick they are working with.

[cmsally]

Or are we defending it along the lines "Thailand - the hub of sophisticated political themes and critical thought and expression".

I'm sure all the teachers at Sacred Heart are familiar with this (simplified) model

The posters here appear to be jumping straight to no. 2 and have too much emphasis on 3A.& 3B........in my opinion of course

Well not really. We are concentrating more on no. 1, which is history and very definitely reality although in a different period than the present. I think our argument is that the school is missing this out spectacularly and as a place of education this seems way off the mark.

I don't think 3A comes into it for us but it might possibly for the participants of the parade in terms of having a jacket as nice as their teammate and getting all the set up ready for their team. Peer pressure and group identity and all that stuff.

3B comes into it, but we are demonstrating perhaps a higher set of morals and principles than the participants. We are questioning the system of ethics in this supposedly "christian" place of education, which seems to be incapable of inculcating knowledge and morals to their students.

This seems surprising seeing as students at Thai schools can systematically follow a number of rules and rituals on a daily basis.

As for our perception in 3. I think we are probably the only ones employing any critical thinking , unless you are talking about shades of lipstick and prices of jackets.

As for conclusion I guess there are a number such as "mai pen rai who gives a ..."

or maybe the students really deserve better.

In the end I think I have more sympathy for the students who have been let down by a bunch of mindless, ignorant "educators" and made the laughing stock and subject of reproach.

Edited September 25, 2011 by cmsally

[Beetlejuice]

my wife and I have our daughter at Sacred Heart. Over the past 2 years I've had plenty of complaints about how they operate, but still have to hope there is some quality there, being a private Catholic school like I went to long ago.

Wife brought home the attached photo from the Sport's Day parade. There are many other pictures with swatstika flags, goose-stepping, and the Nazi salute, but this one stands out. Can you believe the boots and the automatic weapons of these sporty young ladies? Pretty heady stuff....

If l were you l would go to the principles office and ask WHY the school is glorifying a party (Nazi) responsible for mass murder of millions of innocent men, women and children and how it has helped your kids. .

Exactly.

I would protest and threaten the school with exposing their activities to the Western media, plus, my kids would be out of there, pronto.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Beetlejuice

[473geo]

@CMsally

Surely unless anybody knows for certain the 'meaning' or 'message' being conveyed, it is impossible to be compliant with the description in no.1

As of yet, I have seen no such explanation of the parade

Edited September 25, 2011 by 473geo

[OriginalPoster]

@CMsally

Surely unless anybody knows for certain the 'meaning' or 'message' being conveyed, it is impossible to be compliant with the description in no.1

As of yet, I have seen no such explanation of the parade

No doubt the organizers of the parade have an explanation ready to roll out, as they certainly had to know that they would be called upon to provide one.

[lannarebirth]

my wife and I have our daughter at Sacred Heart. Over the past 2 years I've had plenty of complaints about how they operate, but still have to hope there is some quality there, being a private Catholic school like I went to long ago.

Wife brought home the attached photo from the Sport's Day parade. There are many other pictures with swatstika flags, goose-stepping, and the Nazi salute, but this one stands out. Can you believe the boots and the automatic weapons of these sporty young ladies? Pretty heady stuff....

If l were you l would go to the principles office and ask WHY the school is glorifying a party (Nazi) responsible for mass murder of millions of innocent men, women and children and how it has helped your kids. .

Exactly.

I would protest and threaten the school with exposing their activities to the Western media, plus, my kids would be out of there, pronto.

Maybe for the next parade they'll want to wear these uniforms. Less sanook of course:

http://www.qualityin...-camp-pictures/

Edited September 25, 2011 by lannarebirth

[lannarebirth]

@CMsally

Surely unless anybody knows for certain the 'meaning' or 'message' being conveyed, it is impossible to be compliant with the description in no.1

As of yet, I have seen no such explanation of the parade

Unless it's a spoof of the Nazi regime ala "The Producers" and you heard a stirring rendition of " It's springtime for Hitler and Germany, Deutschland is happy and gay! " etc. probably no positive message to be drawn from this ill conceived spectacle.

[473geo]

@CMsally

Surely unless anybody knows for certain the 'meaning' or 'message' being conveyed, it is impossible to be compliant with the description in no.1

As of yet, I have seen no such explanation of the parade

Unless it's a spoof of the Nazi regime ala "The Producers" and you heard a stirring rendition of " It's springtime for Hitler and Germany, Deutschland is happy and gay! " etc. probably no positive message to be drawn from this ill conceived spectacle.

You are entitled to your opinion, you are also entitled to post your emotion provocking pictures..............but it is in your mind you are making this connection, as I said, straight past no.1......the Thai students and teachers are responsible for your interpretation of their actions?

[lannarebirth]

@CMsally

Surely unless anybody knows for certain the 'meaning' or 'message' being conveyed, it is impossible to be compliant with the description in no.1

As of yet, I have seen no such explanation of the parade

Unless it's a spoof of the Nazi regime ala "The Producers" and you heard a stirring rendition of " It's springtime for Hitler and Germany, Deutschland is happy and gay! " etc. probably no positive message to be drawn from this ill conceived spectacle.

You are entitled to your opinion, you are also entitled to post your emotion provocking pictures..............but it is in your mind you are making this connection, as I said, straight past no.1......the Thai students and teachers are responsible for your interpretation of their actions?

No they are not, but they ARE responsible for their interpretations of what they have decided to re-enact and the ignorance or malevolance attached to that.

Edited September 25, 2011 by lannarebirth

[cmsally]

@CMsally

Surely unless anybody knows for certain the 'meaning' or 'message' being conveyed, it is impossible to be compliant with the description in no.1

As of yet, I have seen no such explanation of the parade

Unless it's a spoof of the Nazi regime ala "The Producers" and you heard a stirring rendition of " It's springtime for Hitler and Germany, Deutschland is happy and gay! " etc. probably no positive message to be drawn from this ill conceived spectacle.

You are entitled to your opinion, you are also entitled to post your emotion provocking pictures..............but it is in your mind you are making this connection, as I said, straight past no.1......the Thai students and teachers are responsible for your interpretation of their actions?

Well I'm afraid not. Any interpretation is going to have a firm base in reality/history because the symbolism used has such strong emotive context regarding a certain very important period in history. How can the Thai participants be solely responsible for interpretation and perception when they are using these explicit symbols which have a direct relation to certain things based in world reality.

[473geo]

No they are not, but they ARE responsible for their interpretations of what they have decided to re-enact and the ignorance or malevolance attached to that.

Oh right, like you trying to link their actions to the atrocities.......ignorance or sensationalism?

[473geo]

@CMsally

Surely unless anybody knows for certain the 'meaning' or 'message' being conveyed, it is impossible to be compliant with the description in no.1

As of yet, I have seen no such explanation of the parade

Unless it's a spoof of the Nazi regime ala "The Producers" and you heard a stirring rendition of " It's springtime for Hitler and Germany, Deutschland is happy and gay! " etc. probably no positive message to be drawn from this ill conceived spectacle.

You are entitled to your opinion, you are also entitled to post your emotion provocking pictures..............but it is in your mind you are making this connection, as I said, straight past no.1......the Thai students and teachers are responsible for your interpretation of their actions?

Well I'm afraid not. Any interpretation is going to have a firm base in reality/history because the symbolism used has such strong emotive context regarding a certain very important period in history. How can the Thai participants be solely responsible for interpretation and perception when they are using these explicit symbols which have a direct relation to certain things based in world reality.

Perception....theirs and yours differ....if they are making a statement for instance about the Nazi attempt at world domination, perhaps even a dig at the harsh regime implimented by their teachers, this may not in their minds link into the atrocities.......but in your mind and others it obviously does........in my mind it does not......but then I've no axe to grind...

[cmsally]

No they are not, but they ARE responsible for their interpretations of what they have decided to re-enact and the ignorance or malevolance attached to that.

Oh right, like you trying to link their actions to the atrocities.......ignorance or sensationalism?

Its not particularly their actions , more the symbolism. Certain symbols can evoke certain things, and in this case it comes at the pretty extreme end of the spectrum. Often there can be consequences for evoking symbols and here we are seeing the product of evoking these symbols. Particularly strange in Thailand where there are all sorts of taboos regarding symbols and as foreigners we have to learn how to behave around them to stay out of trouble.

If Thais want to be taken seriously then they have to learn how to take the symbols of other cultures seriously. The world is a small place and its a 2 way street.

[naboo]

Can I just ask you, 473geo, what was it you think that the students achieved by carrying out this march? Why was it important that they did it in this way?

[cmsally]

You are entitled to your opinion, you are also entitled to post your emotion provocking pictures..............but it is in your mind you are making this connection, as I said, straight past no.1......the Thai students and teachers are responsible for your interpretation of their actions?

Well I'm afraid not. Any interpretation is going to have a firm base in reality/history because the symbolism used has such strong emotive context regarding a certain very important period in history. How can the Thai participants be solely responsible for interpretation and perception when they are using these explicit symbols which have a direct relation to certain things based in world reality.

Perception....theirs and yours differ....if they are making a statement for instance about the Nazi attempt at world domination, perhaps even a dig at the harsh regime implimented by their teachers, this may not in their minds link into the atrocities.......but in your mind and others it obviously does........in my mind it does not......but then I've no axe to grind...

An interesting concept - if indeed they are making a statement about Thai regime / their school, then why not use symbolism to refer to it directly. Because it would be seen as unacceptable to criticise directly.

This is part of my point, they are misusing something and causing offense when the same here is taboo and off limits.

The domestic stuff is serious but not the international. Not exactly giving their students a good basis for the increasingly international society are they.

[473geo]

No they are not, but they ARE responsible for their interpretations of what they have decided to re-enact and the ignorance or malevolance attached to that.

Oh right, like you trying to link their actions to the atrocities.......ignorance or sensationalism?

Its not particularly their actions , more the symbolism. Certain symbols can evoke certain things, and in this case it comes at the pretty extreme end of the spectrum. Often there can be consequences for evoking symbols and here we are seeing the product of evoking these symbols. Particularly strange in Thailand where there are all sorts of taboos regarding symbols and as foreigners we have to learn how to behave around them to stay out of trouble.

If Thais want to be taken seriously then they have to learn how to take the symbols of other cultures seriously. The world is a small place and its a 2 way street.

Yep a two way street, so why don't you guys just lighten up a bit and cut a bit of slack, remember you are in a developing country, that is, perhaps, not developing as fast in some areas as you would like......in my world moaning and complaining about going in the wrong direction doesn't have the same effect as encouragement to go in the right direction......but then that is just my perception based on my history........you guys will do as you will.......I think the term when I was a teenager was 'old stick in the muds'

I was certainly not politically correct as a teenager.......maybe my history has an influence on my view........and tolerance

[Beetlejuice]

Perception....theirs and yours differ....if they are making a statement for instance about the Nazi attempt at world domination, perhaps even a dig at the harsh regime implimented by their teachers, this may not in their minds link into the atrocities.......but in your mind and others it obviously does........in my mind it does not......but then I've no axe to grind...

I don`t agree.

Everyone has an axe to grind.

I am sure that either your father or grandfather fought during World War 2. I am also sure that if you dig deep enough into your family history, you will find someone that was killed in those times.

These days even most Germans find these images disturbing and don`t want to be reminded of their past. As a matter of fact, events like these are banned in Germany and it is a part of European history that no one wants to see rejuvenated, whether for fun or in any shape of form.

Ignorance of the facts is no excuse as it is simple enough to do some research first.

[cmsally]

No they are not, but they ARE responsible for their interpretations of what they have decided to re-enact and the ignorance or malevolance attached to that.

Oh right, like you trying to link their actions to the atrocities.......ignorance or sensationalism?

Its not particularly their actions , more the symbolism. Certain symbols can evoke certain things, and in this case it comes at the pretty extreme end of the spectrum. Often there can be consequences for evoking symbols and here we are seeing the product of evoking these symbols. Particularly strange in Thailand where there are all sorts of taboos regarding symbols and as foreigners we have to learn how to behave around them to stay out of trouble.

If Thais want to be taken seriously then they have to learn how to take the symbols of other cultures seriously. The world is a small place and its a 2 way street.

Yep a two way street, so why don't you guys just lighten up a bit and cut a bit of slack, remember you are in a developing country, that is, perhaps, not developing as fast in some areas as you would like......in my world moaning and complaining about going in the wrong direction doesn't have the same effect as encouragement to go in the right direction......but then that is just my perception based on my history........you guys will do as you will.......I think the term when I was a teenager was 'old stick in the muds'

I was certainly not politically correct as a teenager.......maybe my history has an influence on my view........and tolerance

As for a 2 way street. I was referring to the fact that you can get into serious trouble for using some Thai symbols incorrectly. Seeing as most foreigners manage to stick to that, then it doesn't seem unreasonable for them to adhere to the rules of civility when it comes to international symbolism.

[473geo]

An interesting concept - if indeed they are making a statement about Thai regime / their school, then why not use symbolism to refer to it directly. Because it would be seen as unacceptable to criticise directly.

This is part of my point, they are misusing something and causing offense when the same here is taboo and off limits.

The domestic stuff is serious but not the international. Not exactly giving their students a good basis for the increasingly international society are they.

Were people offended by the Mr Bean clip, offended by the John Cleese hitler walk in faulty towers, by the ridicule of herr Flick in 'allo 'allo?

We can treat aspects of the war with humour, but all other entities must take every aspect very seriously because of the atrocities concerned, and for fear of offending us.....and to use the swastika for any other reason than linking to the atrocities is miss use?

Is that the double edge view of being international you wish to project for the Thai students?

[473geo]

Perception....theirs and yours differ....if they are making a statement for instance about the Nazi attempt at world domination, perhaps even a dig at the harsh regime implimented by their teachers, this may not in their minds link into the atrocities.......but in your mind and others it obviously does........in my mind it does not......but then I've no axe to grind...

I don`t agree.

Everyone has an axe to grind.

I am sure that either your father or grandfather fought during World War 2. I am also sure that if you dig deep enough into your family history, you will find someone that was killed in those times.

These days even most Germans find these images disturbing and don`t want to be reminded of their past. As a matter of fact, events like these are banned in Germany and it is a part of European history that no one wants to see rejuvenated, whether for fun or in any shape of form.

Ignorance of the facts is no excuse as it is simple enough to do some research first.

A man I was very close to was in the first world war........he spoke only once of the action, when he did he spoke softly and his face became gaunt.......he did not speak of the germans.....he spoke of young men being sent over the top by officers to certain death.......and the other certain death if you did not go was hinted at but never mentioned........

His words to me were......'we did what we had to do'.....now we move on in the hope that our families live a rewarding life and never experience anything like we went through........

I only ever had the one conversation with him........I honoured and respected his wishes to move on. I have, and tried to live a rewarding life too.......perhaps you should try it.....

[roger1999]

This thread gives me another chance to plug my "Hitler reenactment" youtube video. It's not that great but it was my first try:

Edited September 25, 2011 by roger1999

[Beetlejuice]

Perception....theirs and yours differ....if they are making a statement for instance about the Nazi attempt at world domination, perhaps even a dig at the harsh regime implimented by their teachers, this may not in their minds link into the atrocities.......but in your mind and others it obviously does........in my mind it does not......but then I've no axe to grind...

I don`t agree.

Everyone has an axe to grind.

I am sure that either your father or grandfather fought during World War 2. I am also sure that if you dig deep enough into your family history, you will find someone that was killed in those times.

These days even most Germans find these images disturbing and don`t want to be reminded of their past. As a matter of fact, events like these are banned in Germany and it is a part of European history that no one wants to see rejuvenated, whether for fun or in any shape of form.

Ignorance of the facts is no excuse as it is simple enough to do some research first.

A man I was very close to was in the first world war........he spoke only once of the action, when he did he spoke softly and his face became gaunt.......he did not speak of the germans.....he spoke of young men being sent over the top by officers to certain death.......and the other certain death if you did not go was hinted at but never mentioned........

His words to me were......'we did what we had to do'.....now we move on in the hope that our families live a rewarding life and never experience anything like we went through........

I only ever had the one conversation with him........I honoured and respected his wishes to move on. I have, and tried to live a rewarding life too.......perhaps you should try it.....

Why get personal?

This is only a case of having different opinions, agreeing or not agreeing and why? A discussion actually.

You have your views and I have mine, so what`s that have to do with my lifestyle and living a rewarding life?

[473geo]

Perception....theirs and yours differ....if they are making a statement for instance about the Nazi attempt at world domination, perhaps even a dig at the harsh regime implimented by their teachers, this may not in their minds link into the atrocities.......but in your mind and others it obviously does........in my mind it does not......but then I've no axe to grind...

I don`t agree.

Everyone has an axe to grind.

I am sure that either your father or grandfather fought during World War 2. I am also sure that if you dig deep enough into your family history, you will find someone that was killed in those times.

These days even most Germans find these images disturbing and don`t want to be reminded of their past. As a matter of fact, events like these are banned in Germany and it is a part of European history that no one wants to see rejuvenated, whether for fun or in any shape of form.

Ignorance of the facts is no excuse as it is simple enough to do some research first.

A man I was very close to was in the first world war........he spoke only once of the action, when he did he spoke softly and his face became gaunt.......he did not speak of the germans.....he spoke of young men being sent over the top by officers to certain death.......and the other certain death if you did not go was hinted at but never mentioned........

His words to me were......'we did what we had to do'.....now we move on in the hope that our families live a rewarding life and never experience anything like we went through........

I only ever had the one conversation with him........I honoured and respected his wishes to move on. I have, and tried to live a rewarding life too.......perhaps you should try it.....

Why get personal?

This is only a case of having different opinions, agreeing or not agreeing and why? A discussion actually.

You have your views and I have mine, so what`s that have to do with my lifestyle and living a rewarding life?

Just goes to show how easy it is to pick up a wrong view........my comment of 'perhaps you should try it' was referring to 'I honoured and respected his wishes to move on'

[Rumpole]

Why don't they dress up as Pol Pot guys. A little nearer home. Naaaaaaah, no fancy uniform eh.

Pol Pot was Khmer. Khmers register even further off the Thai radar than farang. I'll wager these kids and their 'teachers' know as little about the depredations of the Khmer Rouge as they do about the Nazis.