Sacred Heart Nazi Sports Academy

[Jingthing]

It's called freedom of expression.......

I wonder what they were intending to express.

Ignorance?

Bingo.

[uptheos]

The school officials should really make a public statement of apology. Of course they won't, because they probably still think they haven't done anything wrong. So they are likely to blame the f-rangs for messing with Thai affairs.

Of course they won't think they've done anything wrong.

How could they, if they have absolutely no idea about major historical events around the world?

There's probably some poor 'history' teacher googling Hitler and genocide right now and wondering what the duck is that all about and where's Germany anyway?

[Beetlejuice]

Really don`t think there is much more that can be added to this thread.

You either believe that these sorts of activities are acceptable or you don’t.

My personal viewpoint is that this is not acceptable under any circumstances (full stop) and there is no need to explain the, what, why and where’s. Some of you may hold beliefs towards the Nazi ideology, or truly believe that this is just some kids having a bit of harmless fun, then fine, because I do not.

To some the events of 2 world wars still hold bitter and tragic memories. Including those who fought for the Allies and the Axis powers. Although we should never forget, this is not the way to portray those events from a time when the world went insane.

[scorecard]

Well if they committed mass murder in the proceedings.........I would say that is going a bit far........tolerant as I am......

Your tolerant. I never would have guessed that.

[scorecard]

Really don`t think there is much more that can be added to this thread.

You either believe that these sorts of activities are acceptable or you don’t.

My personal viewpoint is that this is not acceptable under any circumstances (full stop) and there is no need to explain the, what, why and where’s. Some of you may hold beliefs towards the Nazi ideology, or truly believe that this is just some kids having a bit of harmless fun, then fine, because I do not.

To some the events of 2 world wars still hold bitter and tragic memories. Including those who fought for the Allies and the Axis powers. Although we should never forget, this is not the way to portray those events from a time when the world went insane.

Well said beetlejuice.

I wonder how much of the planning for this event was monitored by the teachers and/or the parents.

Of more recent years there seems to be a caveat developing in regard to freedom of speech. The caveat being to leave alone insensitive subject areas, etc.

A possible reaction from the teacher(s), if the kids concerned thought up the the idea and then enacted it, could have been to use this as a learning opportunity to explain that somethings are funny, and some things are not funny and explain why they are not funny.

[uptheos]

A similar thing made The Daily Mail UK back in 2007, it's not a new thing in Thailand.

http://www.dailymail...sports-day.html

Edited September 26, 2011 by uptheos

[sidolis]

This is all about education. And this is supposed to be a school. I too find it incredible that the teachers did nothing to stop this, but then they probably had a similar education.

I have taught for some years now at a large nominally Christian private school in CM. I noticed the sts thinking the swastika glamorous (the Nazi one, not the Vedic one), and was quite upset by this (bourgeois understatement). So this year we started a course covering WW2, for Mattayom 4 sts. (In fact we haven't finished yet).

I can assure you that the sts were totally ignorant of this. Many failed even to make the connection between Hitler and WW2. They have no idea of fascism or what the Nazis stood for or did. One girl, with a British dad, knew a little about it - that Hitler 'didn't like the Jews much'. They didn't know that Japan were allies of Germany. They were, basically, completely and utterly ignorant about the whole thing. But - and this is something Hitler was good at - the Nazis achieved "Brand Recognition". Disgusting I know, but true - its just another logo to these kids.

But surely the HISTORY teachers at Sacred Heart should have at least a Keystage 3 understanding of this?

[uptheos]

But surely the HISTORY teachers at Sacred Heart should have at least a Keystage 3 understanding of this?

Why, as long as their uniforms are pressed and medal ribbons in place, what else do they need to do?

[bridge]

I don't know why everyone is getting their knickers in a knot. They were just copying Prince Harry:-

[daffodil11]

I haven't much to add to this thread that hasn't already been said much more articulately by those posting before me. i just wanted to go on record and say that i find the acts of the school inexcusable. i'm sad for the children who will grow up thinking it's okay. and i'm even sadder for the children who will bear the brunt of such antisemetism by those who think it's okay.

[uptheos]

I don't know why everyone is getting their knickers in a knot. They were just copying Prince Harry:-

You're a bit late mate - it's been done already.

[sidolis]

I haven't much to add to this thread that hasn't already been said much more articulately by those posting before me. i just wanted to go on record and say that i find the acts of the school inexcusable. i'm sad for the children who will grow up thinking it's okay. and i'm even sadder for the children who will bear the brunt of such antisemetism by those who think it's okay.

My point is that these kids have no idea that the Nazis were anti-semitic, or what this even means (see my slightly earlier post). Indeed, in one inquiry-led class after cataloging the atrocities against the Jews pre-1939, one of my sts asked me - 'who are the Jews?'

This is not about dodgy politics, but extreme ignorance; it would seem not just on the part of the sts, but also the teachers/school.

Incidentally, the same student in the same class followed up with 'well, if he hated them so much why didn't he kill them all?'

After further explanation... 'Are there any left?'

As I said, we have only just got to 1939 in the course.

[lannarebirth]

I haven't much to add to this thread that hasn't already been said much more articulately by those posting before me. i just wanted to go on record and say that i find the acts of the school inexcusable. i'm sad for the children who will grow up thinking it's okay. and i'm even sadder for the children who will bear the brunt of such antisemetism by those who think it's okay.

My point is that these kids have no idea that the Nazis were anti-semitic, or what this even means (see my slightly earlier post). Indeed, in one inquiry-led class after cataloging the atrocities against the Jews pre-1939, one of my sts asked me - 'who are the Jews?'

This is not about dodgy politics, but extreme ignorance; it would seem not just on the part of the sts, but also the teachers/school.

Incidentally, the same student in the same class followed up with 'well, if he hated them so much why didn't he kill them all?'

After further explanation... 'Are there any left?'

As I said, we have only just got to 1939 in the course.

Yes, profound ignorance. Kudos to you for trying to shine a light in the darkness. Maybe they'll make a connection when you get to the part about the Nazis persecution and murder of homosexuals. Then again, maybe not.

[Beetlejuice]

I haven't much to add to this thread that hasn't already been said much more articulately by those posting before me. i just wanted to go on record and say that i find the acts of the school inexcusable. i'm sad for the children who will grow up thinking it's okay. and i'm even sadder for the children who will bear the brunt of such antisemetism by those who think it's okay.

My point is that these kids have no idea that the Nazis were anti-semitic, or what this even means (see my slightly earlier post). Indeed, in one inquiry-led class after cataloging the atrocities against the Jews pre-1939, one of my sts asked me - 'who are the Jews?'

This is not about dodgy politics, but extreme ignorance; it would seem not just on the part of the sts, but also the teachers/school.

Incidentally, the same student in the same class followed up with 'well, if he hated them so much why didn't he kill them all?'

After further explanation... 'Are there any left?'

As I said, we have only just got to 1939 in the course.

Yes, profound ignorance. Kudos to you for trying to shine a light in the darkness. Maybe they'll make a connection when you get to the part about the Nazis persecution and murder of homosexuals. Then again, maybe not.

This is exactly the point.

Other than those who hold beliefs towards the Nazi ideology, most of us know that the second world war was not all about Nazis vs Jews and that everyone was affected.

There were more than just Jews in the concentration and death camps of middle and eastern europe, although the Jews were the majority towards the middle of the war.

Countless millions were killed or murdered in Europe, Asia, the Middle East, Africa and Russia.

In England, thousands of innocent families were killed during the blitz. My mother lost an aunt, uncle and 5 cousins in the docklands area of London.

At the end of the war, there wasn`t anyone that had not lost someone nearest and dearest.

As I said previously, people either accept these activities has harmless fun or don`t accept it.

[uptheos]

This is not about dodgy politics, but extreme ignorance; it would seem not just on the part of the sts, but also the teachers/school.

"The evil that is in the world almost always comes of ignorance, and good intentions may do as much harm as malevolence, if they lack understanding"

Albert Camus

[473geo]

Well if they committed mass murder in the proceedings.........I would say that is going a bit far........tolerant as I am......

Your tolerant. I never would have guessed that.

I carry no interest in your lack of observation and poor judgement...

Edited September 26, 2011 by 473geo

[Jingthing]

Here is an example of the honorable way to deal with a mistake like this --

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-488159/Thai-school-apologises-Jewish-organisation-Nazi-parade-sports-day.html

As predicted, this recent Chiang Mai incident has now made the INTERNATIONAL press.

Fuhrer furore! Thai student Nazi dress-up day causes outrage

* Foreign parents and teachers appalled by the costumes

* Thai teachers 'did not understand' the controversy

* School asked to put the Holocaust on the curriculum

'But then on sports day when we saw these Nazi storm troopers we were appalled. We told the Thai teachers that this was not on. But they did not understand what was wrong with the display.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2042097/Student-Nazi-dress-day-causes-outrage-Thailand.html#ixzz1Z5klqHbq

I guess the school administrators don't know the meaning of taking responsibility for what happens at their school --

The school's principals did not want to comment about the incident, but a spokesman said: 'We did not know what the students had planned. No offence was intended.'

Edited September 26, 2011 by Jingthing

[OriginalPoster]

Here is an example of the honorable way to deal with a mistake like this --

http://www.dailymail...sports-day.html

As predicted, this recent Chiang Mai incident has now made the INTERNATIONAL press.

Fuhrer furore! Thai student Nazi dress-up day causes outrage

* Foreign parents and teachers appalled by the costumes

* Thai teachers 'did not understand' the controversy

* School asked to put the Holocaust on the curriculum

'But then on sports day when we saw these Nazi storm troopers we were appalled. We told the Thai teachers that this was not on. But they did not understand what was wrong with the display.'

Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz1Z5klqHbq

I guess the school administrators don't know the meaning of taking responsibility for what happens at their school --

The school's principals did not want to comment about the incident, but a spokesman said: 'We did not know what the students had planned. No offence was intended.'

It's bizarre that a school wouldn't just apologize and be done with it, but I have to say that after all the wind up in the thread the pictures in the news story are a bit anticlimactic. The first photo looks like something from a Benny Hill skit.

Edited September 26, 2011 by OriginalPoster

[LivinLOS]

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE September 26, 2011

WIESENTHAL CENTER URGES THAI LEADERS TO CONDEMN CHRISTIAN SCHOOL EVENT GLORIFYING NAZIS

The Simon Wiesenthal Center is calling on Thailand’s Christian leaders to condemn a Nazi parade at the Sacred Heart Preparatory School in Chiang Mai led by students who participated in a Nazi parade replete with Seig Heil salutes, Nazi marches, gun-toting adults and even a young person dressed as Adolf Hitler (visuals at www.wiesenthal.com). The march started on the school grounds and continued into the streets of the adjoining neighborhood.

“Disgusted parents and outraged members of the public forwarded to us the visuals of a Nazi parade at the Sacred Heart School, the second such incident since 2007, involving the veneration of Nazism at a Thai school,” charged Rabbi Abraham Cooper associate dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, a Jewish human rights NGO. “It is difficult to calculate the hurt such a display inflicted on survivors of the Nazi Holocaust and the families of all victims of Nazism. There can be no justification for such an outrage to emanate from place of learning,” he said.

“The Nazis were responsible for the Holocaust, history's worst crime, and had they prevailed during World War II, their racist ideology would have eventually targeted all races the Nazis deemed ‘inferior’, including Asians,” Rabbi Cooper added. “From the visual evidence, it is clear that this Nazi celebration could not have taken place without the knowledge and cooperation of the school administration. The Simon Wiesenthal Center urges that those ultimately responsible for a school calling itself ‘Christian’, take immediate action against all those responsible for promoting and facilitating this disgraceful display. It is important that the pedagogical decisions at Sacred Heart be put in the hands of people who themselves know right from wrong,” Cooper added.

“If and when an administration is put in place at Sacred Heart that is committed to teaching ethics and history, our Center is prepared to provide the materials that will educate the faculty and student body about the Nazi mass murder of 6 million Jews, including 1.5 million children, gypsies and other innocent victims,” Cooper concluded.

Rabbi Cooper, a frequent visitor to Asia, added that a similar parade took place in 2007 at a school in Bangkok involving 200 students and more recently, ‘Slur’, a rock ban donned Nazi uniforms and swastikas in a music video.

VISUALS AVAILABLE FOR DOWNLOAD AT www.wiesenthal.com

[venturalaw]

As predicted. What do you think this will do for tourism? Could the administration at Sacred if Heart be any more pathetic? After failing to counsel the students against participating in this revolting display, they are now providing their student body with instruction regarding how to avoid responsibility for the administration's moronic decisions.

Edited September 27, 2011 by venturalaw

[uptheos]

Now I understand why there's so much homework.......the student's are self taught.

Sounds like the school needs a clear out of its teaching staff from the principle downwards.

I doubt that anyone wants to boast about having a child at Sacred Heart school and wasting their money.

And the kids must be embarrassed to say which school they go to.

[StevieH]

Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz1Z5klqHbq

I guess the school administrators don't know the meaning of taking responsibility for what happens at their school --

The school's principals did not want to comment about the incident, but a spokesman said: 'We did not know what the students had planned. No offence was intended.'

and now it's an embarrassing international news story. the school could have nipped it in the bud with a proactive apology for any offence caused, we will endeavour to educate students as to the true nature of the third reich and the holocaust etc, terribly sorry to those we might have upset. that last line isn't even an apology, it's a 'wasn't my fault guv'nor'.

poetic of course that it's the daily mail reporting it. the paper that in 1934 ran with 'hurrah for the blackshirts' finally appears to have changed its editorial stance with regard to nazis.

[meadish_sweetball]

<br />As predicted. What do you think this will do for tourism? Could the administration at Sacred if Heart be any more pathetic? After failing to counsel the students against participating in this revolting display, they are now providing their student body with instruction regarding how to avoid responsibility for the administration's moronic decisions.<br />

Just give it a little time, the damage control machine had not been put into effect by yesterday. Now that the cat is out of the bag, there will no doubt be an apology issued.

I don't think it will affect tourism much at all.

[sbk]

And now in Thaivisa news:

[Paagai]

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE September 26, 2011

WIESENTHAL CENTER URGES THAI LEADERS TO CONDEMN CHRISTIAN SCHOOL EVENT GLORIFYING NAZIS

--Snip

The totally over the top language and unsubstantiated allegations in this press release completely destroy the credibility of this organisation in my opinion. I guess as time progresses, the pool of Nazis left for them to catch gets so small they have to produce this type of inflammatory material to fill the publicity void. As they say, any publicity is good publicity, right?

It seems, what started as a minor incident has been blown out of all proportion, and now those who should know better are seeking to pour petrol on the flames for their own motives.

[StevieH]

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE September 26, 2011

WIESENTHAL CENTER URGES THAI LEADERS TO CONDEMN CHRISTIAN SCHOOL EVENT GLORIFYING NAZIS

--Snip

The totally over the top language and unsubstantiated allegations in this press release completely destroy the credibility of this organisation in my opinion. I guess as time progresses, the pool of Nazis left for them to catch gets so small they have to produce this type of inflammatory material to fill the publicity void. As they say, any publicity is good publicity, right?

It seems, what started as a minor incident has been blown out of all proportion, and now those who should know better are seeking to pour petrol on the flames for their own motives.

while i agree some of the language is a little hefty i don't really think that the wiesenthal center lacks for publicity does it?

[sbk]

off topic post deleted, we are NOT going to get into American politics in a thread about Thai students in Thailand dressing up as Nazis.

[evanson]

Why is it everytime Thais do something wrong someone defends them and says they arent aware of they're doing. They get away with so much here and to be honest its because we let them.

Everyone gets away with a lot in Thailand, ever notice that? There are downsides, but all in all It's one of the things that I really like about this country.

Students parading around as Nazis - seems to be a bit of a tradition. Previous ThaiVisa threads haven't really come to a conclusion what it all means - most likely a combination of ignorance and a misunderstanding of history (i.e., Nazis are "cool" in some history books - surely some mistake). Maybe some day the participants will realize this. Maybe they'll never know.

One thing is for sure though: There is no danger of Thailand developing Neo-Nazis or suddenly becoming a Nazi state. Those that run around in Nazi regalia obviously have no clue about the history. Those who don't probably have never heard of it. There are other problems in this country, if you've noticed.

Is it ignorant? Sure. Evil? No.

You know I see your point but I just don't agree anymore. I used to think it was misunderstanding and perhaps ignorance but now I really do see it as evil intention to hurt.

Thais smile when they are around people but alot of them are right miserable inside. Unhappiness in Thailand seems to create anger and anger creates hate and what's the easiest way to vent hate in a state like Thailand where any criticism of Thailand is frowned upon or brings an uneasiness around.... towards the obvious target, us.

They knew exactly what they were doing. What is so confusing to anyone a genocide/holocaust? Its pretty simple there is nothing confusing, at all. Regaridng are they aware of how it makes people feel, yes they are aware but care more about what they want to do.

You know its funny but I dont think you'd see this in Cambodia, Malaysia, Vietnam, Laos or Burma, I just dont think it would happen but Im not there so cant be 100% about that.

I really think it all boils down to plain and simple jealousy, things like this are just ways to disguise it.

Someone needs to release the photos, you send this to the western papers and there is a big chance they will run it on their site, we have to stop putting up with this crap

Great post. No you most certainly wouldn't see this in the countries mentioned, and it's already made the UK press.

As to the 'why here?' ('Only In Thailand') is the most interesting point.

[weary]

I don't think the Wiesenthal Center has properly considered whether associating Mr Bean with Nazis constitutes glorification or not.

[evanson]

C'mon Loaded, you can do better than that. Not quite in the same context as millions of people being killed at the hand of a complete nut-job. Leave the Thai aologist banter to the prolls.

It is indeed a sad scenario. I'm guessing they do know what happened - certainly the teachers do - but, very likely, have not conceptualized it fully as it's just not relative to them, and, also likely, they just do not give a shit. Now if millions were slain in Thailand at the hand of a crossed-daggers wearing Tan Shwe, for example, and a parade were held in a Western high street by a bunch of 'crossed-dagger' wearing farang students, do you think Thais living there would feel any sort of anger/bewilderment?

Sometimes the xenophobia can stick in my craw so much that I point out stuff along these lines. I recently stated that Muay Thai/Thai Temples/Traditional dancing were ALL copied from the Khmers. I was met with an irritated look and then the person simply blurted 'You never see the two ladies with sticks?', referring to the Heroines Monument on Phuket.

Tolerant the Thais are indeed, but not of any criticsm of them.