kamajava Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Children will see that this dress, it's pretty good ...... he would love this outfit, they did not think much of anything ...... ....... and a dress. their Empire is a lecture for everyone. I do not know that before ......... you will know in advance is advisable at all times to act as ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidolis Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 It is sheer ignorance on the part of the kids. Which is forgiveable. It is also sheer ignorance on the part of the teachers, which is less so, but lets face it they are a product of the same education system. The M4 students I am teaching about Hitler and WW2 (see above) right now knew absolutely nothing about it, some didn't know that Hitler and WW2 were connected, that Germany and Japan were allies, what the Nazis stood for. Anything. Hitler achieved brand recognition. Disgusting, but true - to them, and most Thais, the swastika is just a smart logo. The solution is education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
473geo Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) Educate in what way? 'make an example' of innocent school kids and incite outrage in the international media..... Suffocate freedom of expression in Thailand under the weight of European history... Edited September 27, 2011 by 473geo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babcock Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Well a friend of mine's children go to a Sacred heart school in Bangkok. They're in their late teens. They didn't know who Obama was neither did they care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
473geo Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) Well a friend of mine's children go to a Sacred heart school in Bangkok. They're in their late teens. They didn't know who Obama was neither did they care. I would imagine given the exposure in the world media, many people outside Thailand know it as little more than prostitution and beaches I find it rather amazing that people who live here, and hold an obvious interest in Thailand, play the rather ill thought out, but we know their history they should know ours card....... Edited September 27, 2011 by 473geo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptheos Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Well a friend of mine's children go to a Sacred heart school in Bangkok. They're in their late teens. They didn't know who Obama was neither did they care. Why am I not surprised, that a Catholic school advocating glorification of Hitler and the Nazi's, wouldn't tell kids that America has a black president? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babcock Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 A lot of interesting perspectives have been raised by this thread. I saw this video about a week ago and found it hysterical. I found what happened at Sacred Heart school chilling, offensive and wrong. Am I a hypocrite? I don't know - again the Falang vs. Thai point of view will always come into play. I lean heavily toward 'the administration and teachers dropped the ball' in terms of a teaching opportunity and, if I did have children in the school, I would undoubtedly pull them out. You want your school teaching values along with the curriculum. That responsibility falls on administration and staff. This decision reflected SH's values. Children can plead ignorance but responsible educators - regardless of the hemisphere they were born in - may not. If the administrators and staff responsible for allowing this to happen justify their decision with ignorance, mai pben rai, and that was something that happened in the past so we don't need to respect it, again they are exhibiting their values. Now it's up to the paying parents to exhibit their own. Brilliant. Notice it's Monty Python's Hilter. Says it all really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paagai Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Hypothetical question: if the kids had dressed up in Burmese army uniforms and said they got the idea from Rambo 4, would any of the Farangs expressing "Outrage" have batted an eyelid, let alone mentioned it on TV, got it dragged up in the foreign press etc? I think not. I find really hypocritical, people who can claim disgust and whip up such hysteria about the glorification of things that happened sixty years ago in another continent, and that are meaningless to those who live in our adopted country, yet completely ignore, and turn a blind eye to the genocide that is still taking place right now 200 clicks up the road from here. If you are going to apply the principle of outrage, please apply it consistently. The numbers murdered by the regime in Burma may be less than killed in world war two, does that somehow make it more acceptable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krit Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Showing similarly poor taste the Finnish Air Training Wing, where Finland's fast jet pilots are trained, has this as their unit flag: Finnish Air Trg Wing Which, sadly just goes to show that a lack of respect or historical good sense is not restricted to LOS. Swastikas have been used for thousands of years. It was a popular symbol of luck throughout the West in the early 20th century, and the Finnish air force has used them since 1918. There was obviously no Nazi connection. Although my home town in Finland was burnt by German Nazis during the war, I do not think that the Finnish Air Force lacked any respect or historical good sense returning some traditional swastikas to limited use in 1958, after a period of not using them in order not to create confusion with the Nazi swastika. They simply believed that all educated people would well understand the historical context of this symbol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevieH Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Well a friend of mine's children go to a Sacred heart school in Bangkok. They're in their late teens. They didn't know who Obama was neither did they care. had your friend perhaps considered telling them? assuming he / she considered it important to know who the president of the USA was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uptheos Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Hypothetical question: if the kids had dressed up in Burmese army uniforms and said they got the idea from Rambo 4, would any of the Farangs expressing "Outrage" have batted an eyelid, let alone mentioned it on TV, got it dragged up in the foreign press etc? I think not. I find really hypocritical, people who can claim disgust and whip up such hysteria about the glorification of things that happened sixty years ago in another continent, and that are meaningless to those who live in our adopted country, yet completely ignore, and turn a blind eye to the genocide that is still taking place right now 200 clicks up the road from here. If you are going to apply the principle of outrage, please apply it consistently. The numbers murdered by the regime in Burma may be less than killed in world war two, does that somehow make it more acceptable? Do you mean apply the principle of outrage to your hypothetical situation above......how do we do that on this thread and why would we respond to a hypothetical situation anyway? There are many people on TV that apply principles of outrage regarding Burma and other countries, but it's usually done on the 'General' or 'World News' threads. This was a true and specific Chiang Mai school and an organised parade dressed as Nazis....not a hypothesis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TackyToo Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Too bad you did not get a video. Hi, has anyone an idea where to see the pic, it's not displayed here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mallmagician Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 Kindly point out the post of anyone that has turned a blind eye to the plight in Burma? I wouldn't want to think you have developed a theory in your mind based on a hypothetical scenario you came up with, that you have decided to project onto people. I'm sure you haven't done that, but if you could kindly point me in the right direction where people have done as you say, then I'm sure that will clear things up...., Hypothetical question: if the kids had dressed up in Burmese army uniforms and said they got the idea from Rambo 4, would any of the Farangs expressing "Outrage" have batted an eyelid, let alone mentioned it on TV, got it dragged up in the foreign press etc? I think not. I find really hypocritical, people who can claim disgust and whip up such hysteria about the glorification of things that happened sixty years ago in another continent, and that are meaningless to those who live in our adopted country, yet completely ignore, and turn a blind eye to the genocide that is still taking place right now 200 clicks up the road from here. If you are going to apply the principle of outrage, please apply it consistently. The numbers murdered by the regime in Burma may be less than killed in world war two, does that somehow make it more acceptable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babcock Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Kerry K. You are the one rewriting history. You show me one document that Thais signed allied with Germany. All I stated was that the country signed a treaty with Japan after 1 day of fighting. They allied with Japan to protect from being occupied. How is that rewriting history? If they had a secret agreement with Japan (like you state), then why did Thais die fighting them at the border? Yes, Piboon supported the ideas of the Nazis, but that doesn't mean the populace did. He was a brutal leader but was liked by the populace for his defense of Thailand not for his hatred of the Chinese. As per your belief in secret agreement with Japan prior to their invasion of Thailand, where did you read that? I Franco-Thai Border War (Jan. 9, 1941-Jan. 28, 1941)--Thailand, then an unofficial ally of Japan, initiated an invasion of French Indochina after early border skirmishes from November 1940. After early successes, the Thai forces were forced back by French reinforcements. At sea, the French navy, in the form of one cruiser, wiped out nearly one third of the Thai navy off the island of Kho Chang on Jan. 17. Japan arranged a cease-fire on Jan. 28. Per a written agreement signed on March 11, France gave portions of Laos and Cambodia to Thailand. Japanese Invasion of Thailand (1941)--Japan, while hoping that secret negotiations with the Thai government would result in the right to free movement of Japanese forces in Thailand, invaded Thailand on December 8, 1941. Japan's goal was access to invasion routes to British-ruled Burma and Malaya. Thai forces put up stiff resistance for several hours, but the fighting ended when the Thai dicator, Plaek Pibulsonggram, signed an armistice with Japan. Thailand as a Member of the Axis Powers- (1941-1945)-Thailand and Japan formed an alliance December 21, 1941. On January 25, 1942, the Thai government declared war on the United States and the United Kingdom, thus becoming a member of the Axis Powers. The Thai ambassador to the United States refused to deliver the declaration of war and became a leader in Thailand's anti-Japanese resistance. Because of this, the United States did not declare war on Thailand. By the end of the war, Thai resistance forces numbered around 50,000 and were in opposition to the Japanese occupation. Source: http://www.historygu...of_thailand.htm And the thai ambassador to the US was Pridi Banomyong, a true thai hero who later fled to France in exile after being falsely accused of... Check out this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pridi_Banomyong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mallmagician Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 Educate in what way? 'make an example' of innocent school kids and incite outrage in the international media..... Suffocate freedom of expression in Thailand under the weight of European history... You're absolutely right. Sacred Heart is trying to blame the innocent School kids. You're right, absolutely. Bad isn't it? Again, they appear to be educating them on how to pass the buck. The Year 5 kids have been blamed and told off. I find it very difficult to believe that all the costumes as elaborate as they are, were never seen by ANYONE that should know better. Even allowing for the possibility that they are telling the truth, and that not one member of staff knew anything at all about these costumes and themes - on the day, when told it was wrong wrong wrong, they should have toned it down (Remove the mustache, no goose-stepping, remove the Swastika armbands and no salute please kids - thanks). Not doing so, IMHO is the whole issue here. Not the kids, but the way they handled it when it became known that is was offensive.... AND the way they are passing the buck and blaming the innocent students for it! Terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 I find really hypocritical, people who can claim disgust and whip up such hysteria about the glorification of things that happened sixty years ago in another continent, On another continent? The definition of world war eludes you doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paagai Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Kindly point out the post of anyone that has turned a blind eye to the plight in Burma? That was exactly my point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) Kindly point out the post of anyone that has turned a blind eye to the plight in Burma? I wouldn't want to think you have developed a theory in your mind based on a hypothetical scenario you came up with, that you have decided to project onto people. I'm sure you haven't done that, but if you could kindly point me in the right direction where people have done as you say, then I'm sure that will clear things up...., Hypothetical question: if the kids had dressed up in Burmese army uniforms and said they got the idea from Rambo 4, would any of the Farangs expressing "Outrage" have batted an eyelid, let alone mentioned it on TV, got it dragged up in the foreign press etc? I think not. I find really hypocritical, people who can claim disgust and whip up such hysteria about the glorification of things that happened sixty years ago in another continent, and that are meaningless to those who live in our adopted country, yet completely ignore, and turn a blind eye to the genocide that is still taking place right now 200 clicks up the road from here. If you are going to apply the principle of outrage, please apply it consistently. The numbers murdered by the regime in Burma may be less than killed in world war two, does that somehow make it more acceptable? Short answer; They haven't, this is a thread about Thailand and Nazi's not about Thailand and Burma.. Edited September 27, 2011 by WarpSpeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mallmagician Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 Kindly point out the post of anyone that has turned a blind eye to the plight in Burma? That was exactly my point So, do you expect us to all say EVERYTHING we are outraged with when discussing a specific thing?? Ok, lets get this started.... (1) I am annoyed that the act that I liked on the UK X-Factor didn't get through to the Judges stage at the weekend. (2) I am annoyed that there is corruption in the FA (3) I am annoyed that I am not allowed to buy land here. (4) I am /////// etc etc... Get real!!! Try to get some logic into your arguments, and you may actually find someone that will agree.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loaded Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Hypothetical question: if the kids had dressed up in Burmese army uniforms and said they got the idea from Rambo 4, would any of the Farangs expressing "Outrage" have batted an eyelid, let alone mentioned it on TV, got it dragged up in the foreign press etc? I think not. I find really hypocritical, people who can claim disgust and whip up such hysteria about the glorification of things that happened sixty years ago in another continent, and that are meaningless to those who live in our adopted country, yet completely ignore, and turn a blind eye to the genocide that is still taking place right now 200 clicks up the road from here. If you are going to apply the principle of outrage, please apply it consistently. The numbers murdered by the regime in Burma may be less than killed in world war two, does that somehow make it more acceptable? Nail on head. Too many farangs bring their cultural conditioning here and expect Thais to have the same conditioning. This is gross ignorance. The Nazis were evil. So was Stalin and Mao. It doesn't mean a thing to Thais. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
473geo Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Kindly point out the post of anyone that has turned a blind eye to the plight in Burma? That was exactly my point So, do you expect us to all say EVERYTHING we are outraged with when discussing a specific thing?? Ok, lets get this started.... (1) I am annoyed that the act that I liked on the UK X-Factor didn't get through to the Judges stage at the weekend. (2) I am annoyed that there is corruption in the FA (3) I am annoyed that I am not allowed to buy land here. (4) I am /////// etc etc... Get real!!! Try to get some logic into your arguments, and you may actually find someone that will agree.... Breaking News Man who expressed outrage at parade he never saw, admits to also getting annoyed if his prefered act does not win on Xfactor..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mallmagician Posted September 27, 2011 Author Share Posted September 27, 2011 Kindly point out the post of anyone that has turned a blind eye to the plight in Burma? That was exactly my point So, do you expect us to all say EVERYTHING we are outraged with when discussing a specific thing?? Ok, lets get this started.... (1) I am annoyed that the act that I liked on the UK X-Factor didn't get through to the Judges stage at the weekend. (2) I am annoyed that there is corruption in the FA (3) I am annoyed that I am not allowed to buy land here. (4) I am /////// etc etc... Get real!!! Try to get some logic into your arguments, and you may actually find someone that will agree.... Breaking News Man who expressed outrage at parade he never saw, admits to also getting annoyed if his prefered act does not win on Xfactor..... Yes, it was a tragedy - they were very good. (I was making a point about the illogical argument another member posted. Mock if you like - I can take it) I do want to say that my OP that seemed to have kicked this whole thing off, was not to blame the kids, nor to condemn the performance as being sinister or anything of the sort.... I personally felt that once the staff were informed of the impact, and offensiveness of the display, that they should have put a stop to it. Instead, they approved it... Thats all my Original Post was trying to convey. I felt that THAT was wrong.... If you do not believe that the teachers should have known better (After having been told - to eliminate all doubt!!), then thats your opinion, and is just as valid as mine. Mine however, differs... Again, I did not intend this to kick off quite to this extent. I just felt that an opportunity to educate was missed, and the children were failed by the staff. It shocked me (Their decision more than the display - which was born out of ignorance), so I posted the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Hypothetical question: if the kids had dressed up in Burmese army uniforms and said they got the idea from Rambo 4, would any of the Farangs expressing "Outrage" have batted an eyelid, let alone mentioned it on TV, got it dragged up in the foreign press etc? I think not. I find really hypocritical, people who can claim disgust and whip up such hysteria about the glorification of things that happened sixty years ago in another continent, and that are meaningless to those who live in our adopted country, yet completely ignore, and turn a blind eye to the genocide that is still taking place right now 200 clicks up the road from here. If you are going to apply the principle of outrage, please apply it consistently. The numbers murdered by the regime in Burma may be less than killed in world war two, does that somehow make it more acceptable? Nail on head. Too many farangs bring their cultural conditioning here and expect Thais to have the same conditioning. This is gross ignorance. The Nazis were evil. So was Stalin and Mao. It doesn't mean a thing to Thais. Perhaps some posters here (me), have had their lives affected by the Nazi stuff back home and feel must comment. Perhaps some here cannot understand that eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beetlejuice Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 (edited) Educate in what way? 'make an example' of innocent school kids and incite outrage in the international media..... Suffocate freedom of expression in Thailand under the weight of European history... This is not just European history and that's why it was called World War 2. The problem is that these themes seem to attract the crank elements; psychos and the brain dead like magnets and become platforms for them to voice their warped opinions, I am surprised that as yet, none have appeared on this thread, but sooner or later those with extreme right wing, anti Jewish, anti Catholic and racist views will make an appearance, they always do. This sort of behaviour must be nipped in the bud right from the very beginning and if the actions perpetrated by these students turns around and smacks them right back in their faces, then good, because that will be the best education for them regarding what the second world war was all about and what Hitler, the swastika and Nazism means to other people. Edited September 27, 2011 by Beetlejuice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loaded Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Hypothetical question: if the kids had dressed up in Burmese army uniforms and said they got the idea from Rambo 4, would any of the Farangs expressing "Outrage" have batted an eyelid, let alone mentioned it on TV, got it dragged up in the foreign press etc? I think not. I find really hypocritical, people who can claim disgust and whip up such hysteria about the glorification of things that happened sixty years ago in another continent, and that are meaningless to those who live in our adopted country, yet completely ignore, and turn a blind eye to the genocide that is still taking place right now 200 clicks up the road from here. If you are going to apply the principle of outrage, please apply it consistently. The numbers murdered by the regime in Burma may be less than killed in world war two, does that somehow make it more acceptable? Nail on head. Too many farangs bring their cultural conditioning here and expect Thais to have the same conditioning. This is gross ignorance. The Nazis were evil. So was Stalin and Mao. It doesn't mean a thing to Thais. Perhaps some posters here (me), have had their lives affected by the Nazi stuff back home and feel must comment. Perhaps some here cannot understand that eh. My grandfather is buried in Holland. Killed by the nazis. My other grandfather was RAF and crippled in an air raid. Both were fighting the nazi regime. I understand that it was 70 years ago and Thais know nothing about it (I keep repeating this but you seem to think you are in Tonbridge Wells). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamajava Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 The ignorance of children. I think kids costumes, this is a beautiful example. And it's compiled for everyone to see. While there is a secret to reveal. Therefore, it is better to be sorry. This event would not happen again. I have to take care better in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 Hypothetical question: if the kids had dressed up in Burmese army uniforms and said they got the idea from Rambo 4, would any of the Farangs expressing "Outrage" have batted an eyelid, let alone mentioned it on TV, got it dragged up in the foreign press etc? I think not. I find really hypocritical, people who can claim disgust and whip up such hysteria about the glorification of things that happened sixty years ago in another continent, and that are meaningless to those who live in our adopted country, yet completely ignore, and turn a blind eye to the genocide that is still taking place right now 200 clicks up the road from here. If you are going to apply the principle of outrage, please apply it consistently. The numbers murdered by the regime in Burma may be less than killed in world war two, does that somehow make it more acceptable? Nail on head. Too many farangs bring their cultural conditioning here and expect Thais to have the same conditioning. This is gross ignorance. The Nazis were evil. So was Stalin and Mao. It doesn't mean a thing to Thais. Perhaps some posters here (me), have had their lives affected by the Nazi stuff back home and feel must comment. Perhaps some here cannot understand that eh. My grandfather is buried in Holland. Killed by the nazis. My other grandfather was RAF and crippled in an air raid. Both were fighting the nazi regime. I understand that it was 70 years ago and Thais know nothing about it (I keep repeating this but you seem to think you are in Tonbridge Wells). Obviously your family trauma hasn't affected you as it has me, my parents were the ones involved with my memories, not grand parents but then perhaps l am older than you eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venturalaw Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 I understand that it was 70 years ago and Thais know nothing about it (I keep repeating this but you seem to think you are in Tonbridge Wells). Thai children perhaps know nothing about WWII, but in your opinion should not educators be knowledgeable, and as educators, perhaps pass said knowledge on to the students in the form of instruction so that said students do not remain as ignorant as you believe Thais to be? Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
473geo Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 So, do you expect us to all say EVERYTHING we are outraged with when discussing a specific thing?? Ok, lets get this started.... (1) I am annoyed that the act that I liked on the UK X-Factor didn't get through to the Judges stage at the weekend. (2) I am annoyed that there is corruption in the FA (3) I am annoyed that I am not allowed to buy land here. (4) I am /////// etc etc... Get real!!! Try to get some logic into your arguments, and you may actually find someone that will agree.... Breaking News Man who expressed outrage at parade he never saw, admits to also getting annoyed if his prefered act does not win on Xfactor..... Yes, it was a tragedy - they were very good. (I was making a point about the illogical argument another member posted. Mock if you like - I can take it) I do want to say that my OP that seemed to have kicked this whole thing off, was not to blame the kids, nor to condemn the performance as being sinister or anything of the sort.... I personally felt that once the staff were informed of the impact, and offensiveness of the display, that they should have put a stop to it. Instead, they approved it... Thats all my Original Post was trying to convey. I felt that THAT was wrong.... If you do not believe that the teachers should have known better (After having been told - to eliminate all doubt!!), then thats your opinion, and is just as valid as mine. Mine however, differs... Again, I did not intend this to kick off quite to this extent. I just felt that an opportunity to educate was missed, and the children were failed by the staff. It shocked me (Their decision more than the display - which was born out of ignorance), so I posted the info. I just wanted you to see how the media can twist and distort, I understand your reasons for posting, I will accept you did not think through the natural progression following your post...... I think the children may have been guilty of nothing more than that too.......if the parade contents were indeed left to the students in their entirety, the teachers approved nothing P.S I didn't notice your thread criticising the decision on xfactor...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamajava Posted September 27, 2011 Share Posted September 27, 2011 The ignorance of children. I think kids costumes, this is a beautiful example. And it's compiled for everyone to see. While there is a secret to reveal. Therefore, it is better to be sorry. This event would not happen again. I have to take care better in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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