Thai Student Nazi Dress-Up Day Causes Outrage

[Kananga]

A war that had little effect on Thais?????? Apart from being completely wrong, you are in essence saying its ok to parade around portraying people responsible for the greatest atrocities of the 20th century as long as we were not directly involved. Education is supposed to teach, regardless of whether it is in the classroom or at the school carnival. What exactly were the Thai teachers attempting to teach in this particular exercise?

For someone spouting off a lot about teaching and education, you appear to have a problem with reading, comprehension and history.

By the way, Thailand was not in the war and did its best to play on both sides (Japan vs. Allies) and gained rewards from both the US and Japan due to the war.

So the Japanese were not really there?

I do indeed have problems with reading, comprehension and history, but not as much as I have problems with morons with even less of a grasp on reality than I do.

Allowing the Japanese here (and being rewarded for it) is a lot different than being occupied or being in the war or what many other countries went through. After the war Thailand was also rewarded by the US.

Despite your admitted lacking in reading comprehension, you should realize what I said was 100% true in it was a "war that had little effect on Thais compared to much of the rest of the world"

Why don't you tell us how many Thais were killed during combat in the war.

7600 in total, 5600 being military deaths, the others being civilian.

Do I win a prize?

[WarpSpeed]

Why not take offense to the Cross? Millions were killed during the Christian crusades and the Nazi's also used the cross as their symbol.

Why not take offense to the Egyptian enslavement of Jews? Like really, is it possible to be a bit more recent with our history and whittle it down to just 20th century atrocities?

Edited September 27, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[kerryk]

This is typical a result of Thai narsistic attitude: ZERO knowledge and interest what happended outside ot Thailand.

LOL, Thais are narsistic (narcissistic) because they don't have interest in what you have interest in? Or for that matter a war that had little effect on Thais compared to much of the rest of the world.

A war that had little effect on Thais?????? Apart from being completely wrong, you are in essence saying its ok to parade around portraying people responsible for the greatest atrocities of the 20th century as long as we were not directly involved. Education is supposed to teach, regardless of whether it is in the classroom or at the school carnival. What exactly were the Thai teachers attempting to teach in this particular exercise?

For someone spouting off a lot about teaching and education, you appear to have a problem with reading, comprehension and history.

By the way, Thailand was not in the war and did its best to play on both sides (Japan vs. Allies) and gained rewards from both the US and Japan due to the war.

Thailand was in the war. It agreed to help Japan in the Burma campaign which it did. Thailand was Japan's only voluntary ally during the war. Thailand was bombed by hundreds of allied planes during the war and Thailand pilots shot down some of those. After the war Bangkok was occupied by British and Indian troops for a year.

On December 14 the PM of Thailand signed a secret agreement with the Japanese committing Thai troops to participate in the invasion of Burma, One week later, on December 21, 1941, the PM Phibun signed a formal treaty of alliance with Japan in front of the Emerald Buddha at Wat Phra Kaeo. On January 25, 1942, Thailand declared war on Britain and the United States. Shortly after Thailand attacked by air and with the Northern Thai Army the Shan states Burma.

[Thai at Heart]

Asif Ahmad to Sacred Heart School Chiang Mai re Nazi parade

Ambassador to Thailand & Laos I British Embassy 14 Wireless Road Bangkok 10330

as pdf document

Asif Ahmad to Sacred Heart School Chiang Mai re Nazi parade (2).pdf

Well, now this deserves some kind of response. I wonder what will be forthcoming.

"Dear Mr. Ambassador,

We sincerely apologise. In our ignorance we didn't realise that the Nazis had killed anyone, but rather thought that the kids were dressing up Max Moseley".

Regards,

[WarpSpeed]

Further making my point is that you missed the point that any WESTERNER you may have encountered (however many that may actually be) would not know the difference between Taiwan and Thailand... If you're running in those circles then that's the impression you'll get however I've had experience with a wide cross section of older and younger Thai's both educated and not so, which far out number the expats of Western countries here and I can say without equivocation they are very sheltered about the world outside of Thailand and most have told me that never even studied ANY world history during their education..

You can keep arguing your point but by doing so you're actually reinforcing mine instead..

you also missed the point that a few thai you may have encountered do not know history of WWII in the west, it doesn't mean "all" thais has no idea on the issue. If you're running in those circles then that's the impression you'll get . see?

my argument will only reinforcing the bad/weak part of your never support it.

and i am not going to justify or even comparing your experience with what you think it is already wide cross section of thais to my experience with foreigners i meet in southeast asia, america and japan. b/c you know what you know, but again what you know doesn't say that it is going to be the absolute right info for all. i was in thailand for almost 2 decades, and yes i know that they have world history in school classes. i also know that their side of thai history is way way over saturated.

but hey ,they also tell student how flipflop they were during WWII. if you are in thailand long enough you might know how teacher and students laugh at their own history during WWII. that was exactly Thais that i know. they never take anything serious, as so the nazi kids, i guess!

i do partly blame it on the school and education, but for sure i know not all of them act the way the kids did. not even majority of them do.

Ok you're right I can't compete with such wit and extensive knowledge?

Edited September 27, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[TPI]

[

A war that had little effect on Thais?????? Apart from being completely wrong, you are in essence saying its ok to parade around portraying people responsible for the greatest atrocities of the 20th century as long as we were not directly involved. Education is supposed to teach, regardless of whether it is in the classroom or at the school carnival. What exactly were the Thai teachers attempting to teach in this particular exercise?

For someone spouting off a lot about teaching and education, you appear to have a problem with reading, comprehension and history.

By the way, Thailand was not in the war and did its best to play on both sides (Japan vs. Allies) and gained rewards from both the US and Japan due to the war.

So the Japanese were not really there?

I do indeed have problems with reading, comprehension and history, but not as much as I have problems with morons with even less of a grasp on reality than I do.

Allowing the Japanese here (and being rewarded for it) is a lot different than being occupied or being in the war or what many other countries went through. After the war Thailand was also rewarded by the US.

Despite your admitted lacking in reading comprehension, you should realize what I said was 100% true in it was a "war that had little effect on Thais compared to much of the rest of the world"

Why don't you tell us how many Thais were killed during combat in the war.

The last world war ended 66 years ago, most of the comments seem to be from people who not only had no part nor had a close family member who had a part in the war?

Yes it was insensitive! Maybe even rude? But seeing that they responded in a in a joyous way, celebrating their youth and enthusiasm what can be the problem? They must have seen photo's of the cruelties of the nazi regime and decided to go ahead anyway as if the ADULTS would understand that not offence was intended.....it was only a sports day after all!!

If you want to know how many military people (Thai) died in WWII go read for yourself on the "Victory Monument" in Bangkok!

[Chopperboy]

Thailand was in the war. It agreed to help Japan in the Burma campaign which it did. Thailand was Japan's only voluntary ally during the war. Thailand was bombed by hundreds of allied planes during the war and Thailand pilots shot down some of those. After the war Bangkok was occupied by British and Indian troops for a year.

On December 14 the PM of Thailand signed a secret agreement with the Japanese committing Thai troops to participate in the invasion of Burma, One week later, on December 21, 1941, the PM Phibun signed a formal treaty of alliance with Japan in front of the Emerald Buddha at Wat Phra Kaeo. On January 25, 1942, Thailand declared war on Britain and the United States. Shortly after Thailand attacked by air and with the Northern Thai Army the Shan states Burma.

The Thai air force bombed Kengtung killing many including members of the Chinese Imperial army, whom the British had asked for help to garrison.

[andyko]

it might be this famous among Thais monarchy admiration

My link

[Trouble]

I'm 65 years old. WWII was over when even I was born. Sure I studied European history and in fact majored in history in college. Yes I know what happened in WWII. WWII was history to me not an event that I lived through. I will be the first to admit that I am sure some find the behavior in the school appalling but please remember that most students in the Western world do not know the history of the Japanese in China, Korea, or southeast asia and the conflicts in Asia either. It is only because the United States was directly attacked by the Japanese that the young people of today in American have any reference to the Japanese in WWII. Seems like today even American kids do not know much about Korean or Vietnam conflicts. History has a way of fading in time unless you are interested in it and want to study it. Surely many of the teachers teaching in Thai school were not even born in the Vietnam era so I should not expect them to teach much about the European theater of war other than in passing. I should not be too upset with this. Why should emphasis in Thai schools be on what happened in Europe 60/70 years ago.

I don't think teaching the Holocaust has done much to stop genocide in the world if what has happened in Cambodia, Africa, and Yugoslavia is any example. Sure I hope this brings more knowledge to those students about what really happened in that period, but young people today throughout the world don't really care what happened in WWII. It is about as relevant to them as the Romans marching the Christians into the Coliseum to me. It is ancient history to them. Does not make it right, but life goes on. People don't live in the past.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Trouble

[FOODLOVER]

Asif Ahmad to Sacred Heart School Chiang Mai re Nazi parade

Ambassador to Thailand & Laos I British Embassy 14 Wireless Road Bangkok 10330

as pdf document

Asif Ahmad to Sacred Heart School Chiang Mai re Nazi parade (2).pdf

Well that should pucker the head nun. Hope she doesn't make this a habit!

Edited September 27, 2011 by FOODLOVER

[bushman1666]

Further making my point is that you missed the point that any WESTERNER you may have encountered (however many that may actually be) would not know the difference between Taiwan and Thailand... If you're running in those circles then that's the impression you'll get however I've had experience with a wide cross section of older and younger Thai's both educated and not so, which far out number the expats of Western countries here and I can say without equivocation they are very sheltered about the world outside of Thailand and most have told me that never even studied ANY world history during their education..

You can keep arguing your point but by doing so you're actually reinforcing mine instead..

you also missed the point that a few thai you may have encountered do not know history of WWII in the west, it doesn't mean "all" thais has no idea on the issue. If you're running in those circles then that's the impression you'll get . see?

my argument will only reinforcing the bad/weak part of your never support it.

and i am not going to justify or even comparing your experience with what you think it is already wide cross section of thais to my experience with foreigners i meet in southeast asia, america and japan. b/c you know what you know, but again what you know doesn't say that it is going to be the absolute right info for all. i was in thailand for almost 2 decades, and yes i know that they have world history in school classes. i also know that their side of thai history is way way over saturated.

but hey ,they also tell student how flipflop they were during WWII. if you are in thailand long enough you might know how teacher and students laugh at their own history during WWII. that was exactly Thais that i know. they never take anything serious, as so the nazi kids, i guess!

i do partly blame it on the school and education, but for sure i know not all of them act the way the kids did. not even majority of them do.

Ok you're right I can't compete with such wit and extensive knowledge?

I like a clear, concise blog

[diz]

i'm sick of reading this, i'm a 1960 generation, now we have 2011.

get over it.

I total agree! It's almost 70 years ago.

And shouldn't we be also shocked to when somebody is displaying a communist symbol? Stalin and Mao Zedong caused the same amount of victims if not even more.

[Errant]

I definitely agree with those saying this was a missed teaching opportunity. The outfits were only marginally accurate so it's entirely possible no real context was learned when "researching" the designs. The "fashion" angle shouldn't be surprising either... Thai girls aren't famed for their knowledge of world events but they do tend to know designer brands. In this case, Hugo Boss. On the off chance that they ever did see a film about the holocaust, more than half of it would probably be blurred out. Then of course you have the popularity of "green" education in Thailand.... My GF once told me that she liked war because there were too many people on the planet and people are bad for the environment. Hitler might as well be Captain Planet by that logic.

The saddest thing though is to see people still flip out about the swastika in all its forms. How tragic and absurd that some maniacs should be allowed to deprive the world of its use. By the same logic, should not the western cross be banned for its use during the crusades or by the KKK? The swastika was quite popular before the Nazis came along. Not just in Buddhist and Hindu areas but everywhere. Modernized versions of it are still used today as corporate logos of Microsoft, Sun Micro, JP Morgan Chase, Columbia sportswear and others.

http://gosai.com/wri...stika-and-cross

Edit: I saw plenty of Nazi symbols durring my time in Bangkok. Although initially shocked I, found it interesting that there wasn't the same sort of hangups over random symbolism. I was also shocked to have a street Roti made for me by a lady wearing an Osama Bin Laden T-shirt. In time I just accepted it as part of Thailand's unique charm. The polar opposite nature in comparison to the places we're from can be part of the allure after all.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Errant

[WarpSpeed]

The last world war ended 66 years ago, most of the comments seem to be from people who not only had no part nor had a close family member who had a part in the war?

Even worse making light of such an atrocity.. I dare sat that nearly EVERYONE had someone in their family history that had some involvement in the war regardless..

[me313]

I am American and come from a Jewish heritage. I have lived in Germany (for 5 years) in the civilian population and I speak German. When I have asked older Germans if they knew and what they thought about the Holocaust, they all had the same answer, "We didn't know what was going on." Ironically, Thai students can also quote the German geriatric population verbatum, "We did not know...". Since there are many retired ex-pats from Germany and The West living here, I wonder if they also learned that phrase from them in preparation for the inevitable questioning that would happen after they made their little statement (to the world).

The Thai girl seemingly proud of imitating Hitler is proud to be a puppet because I believe she sees it as a way to become part of the wealthy Nazi empire one day (if not now).

I have been attacked here often by very racist Europeans (and Americans) and right behind them and helping them without any hesitation were Thai people, full of hate and learned racism. They know exactly what they are doing, saying they don't know, it's just an old excuse they have also learned.....It's really about Thailand becoming the upstart little tiger in Asia, and doing whatever it takes to attract people with money. Anything for money, really, isn't that what the cliche is about Jews?

Edited September 27, 2011 by me313

[Lite Beer]

A Holocaust Denial post has been deleted along with the replies to it.

Having opinions is one thing but denying facts of history is another and is not wanted here.

[kkerry]

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

George Santayana

[MaxYakov]

Why not take offense to the Cross? Millions were killed during the Christian crusades and the Nazi's also used the cross as their symbol.

Actually, the Iron Cross is the symbol of the German military, believed to have dated to the Teutonic Knights. It became the symbol of the German armed forces in 1956 (the Iron Cross as a medal was dropped in 1945). Or so my internet research says, at least. Can't lay this one the Nazis or Hitler. They had their own swastika, but I much prefer Charlie Chaplin's version in 'The Great Dictator' as a targeting aid.

[Jingthing]

Besides all that, my personal experience with anti-semitism in Thailand is extreme.

That's an interesting topic. As an American, I have indeed noticed much more OPEN unapologetic antisemitism among foreigners (both left wing and right wing ones) here than in the US. But as far as Thais go, I get the impression that for the most part they don't even know what Jews are, except for those who have worked in Israel.

[citizen33]

Obviously the choice of fancy dress was in extremely bad taste. Somebody asks about fashion though, and part of the skill of Nazi propaganda was the manufacture of very powerful visual images. Regrettably these do have an appeal for some young people, who may know little about the history. I guess that people like Leni Riefenstahl have a lot to answer for.

[kerryk]

The last world war ended 66 years ago, most of the comments seem to be from people who not only had no part nor had a close family member who had a part in the war?

Yes it was insensitive! Maybe even rude? But seeing that they responded in a in a joyous way, celebrating their youth and enthusiasm what can be the problem? They must have seen photo's of the cruelties of the nazi regime and decided to go ahead anyway as if the ADULTS would understand that not offence was intended.....it was only a sports day after all!!

If you want to know how many military people (Thai) died in WWII go read for yourself on the "Victory Monument" in Bangkok!

Victory Monument was built to commemorate the Franco/Thai war (not WWII) that happened before Thailand became an ally of Japan and declared war against the UK and US and joined WW II. (Hope I got your quotes right it was a bit confusing)

[Neonben]

Yeah but the Thai's didn't have any involvement in Europe during WW2 and sided with Japan so why should they care what happened. The only people who care are the one's who have been affected, clearly displayed by this British parents comments:

A British parent added: 'It could have been worse. They could have been marching to the 'Horst Wessel Song or Bomb Oh Bombs on England."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2042097/Student-Nazi-dress-day-causes-outrage-Thailand.html#ixzz1Z8irN4I2

The last world war ended 66 years ago, most of the comments seem to be from people who not only had no part nor had a close family member who had a part in the war?

Even worse making light of such an atrocity.. I dare sat that nearly EVERYONE had someone in their family history that had some involvement in the war regardless..

[bushman1666]

The last world war ended 66 years ago, most of the comments seem to be from people who not only had no part nor had a close family member who had a part in the war?

Even worse making light of such an atrocity.. I dare sat that nearly EVERYONE had someone in their family history that had some involvement in the war regardless..

I'm 51, my father was a commando in the 9th Army. He was a trainee account living and working in London when he was conscripted into the army at 19 years of age. He survived the war (Obviously or I wouldn't be here to write this) but like so many of his generation it left scars. He had a breakdown. Today that would be called Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. Then it was pull yourself together man. I expect there are many expat in Thailand most of whom will be my age and upwards who's parents and close relatives were directly involves in WWII. I now have a young daughter, she will be taught world history and geography by me so she will understand the way the world is now and how it came to be.

[Gers1873]

Please I want to know the difference between the being Anti-semitic and being a racist?

Race and religion. Unless you start with the big nose crap.

Semites are a race NOT a religion. This family includes the ancient and modern forms of Akkadian, Amharic, Arabic, Aramaic, Ge'ez, Hebrew, Maltese, Phoenician, Tigre and Tigrinya among others

Too often the media equates being anti-semitic with being anti-Jewish.

[techboy]

We criticize the ignorance of the students and flaws in the history curriculum here. But how much are Westerners taught of Asian history? I cannot speak for Europe but back in the States they taught us diddly-squat.

[canuckamuck]

Are we just about done with the lessons on swastikas? Obviously a teacher dressed as Hitler makes a pretty strong case that the students were performing an homage to WW2 Nazis and not making an obscure religious comment.

Their being from a Catholic school should have been another clue that this wasn't a Buddhist inspired event.

From the other thread we see the teachers were warned of the backlash and shrugged it off with classic xenophobic smugness. Not so smug today I bet.

Edited September 27, 2011 by canuckamuck

[JAG]

If you can't see a rather worrying connection here, then the dots are obviously a little too far apart. Considering that Ratzinger was part of the Hitler youth, you would think every Catholic school the world over would be running as far away from any controversy like this at all. Maybe the next story will be that the school was celebrating the Pope's upbringing.

I frankly don't think The Popes "membership" of The Hitler Youth is relevant. He was conscripted as a teenager whilst the Third Reich was collapsing, as were most German boys. He was lucky,put onto his local Anti Aircraft Gun Site, and captured by the US Army, who sent him home. Could have ended up facing the Russians!

This was a bunch of kids displaying their ignorance of western history, not the hand of the Vatican! Non story really.

[Kananga]

We criticize the ignorance of the students and flaws in the history curriculum here. But how much are Westerners taught of Asian history? I cannot speak for Europe but back in the States they taught us diddly-squat.

Did you parade up and down the school yard dressed as Japanese imperial soldiers with plastic guns held above your head though?

[thaikahuna]

Once more adding credence to: Those who forget their history are doomed to repeat it. The bloody teachers should have been monitoring this and those responsible should be sacked.

[Jingthing]

Please I want to know the difference between the being Anti-semitic and being a racist?

Race and religion. Unless you start with the big nose crap.

Semites are a race NOT a religion. This family includes the ancient and modern forms of Akkadian, Amharic, Arabic, Aramaic, Ge'ez, Hebrew, Maltese, Phoenician, Tigre and Tigrinya among others

Too often the media equates being anti-semitic with being anti-Jewish.

You are VERY confused! Anti-semitism is SPECIFICALLY about hatred of JEWS. Jews only. This isn't a controversial topic -- it is a FACT. Cheers.

Jews are a people. Judaism is a religion. Not all Jews practice Judaism.

Edited September 27, 2011 by Jingthing