Worn Cam Chain ?

[wana]

today the mechanic called ,said the cam chain looks a bit worn and asked if i want to replace it as well as the other problems that were wrong with the bike

should a cam chain be worn away after 6000km or is there more life in it yet ?

its only 500 thb for the part + whatever service charge they add but i dont wannt to replace something prematurely if it doesnt need it

bike is a tiger boxer 250cc BTW

Edited September 27, 2011 by wana

[arnoldjr]

i dont know the service interval but the reason they put timing chains is so they last a LONG time and maintain the most accurate cam timing during that period. sounds fishy to me.

[Richard-BKK]

I'm not 100% sure, I not have a technical manual of a Tiger Boxer 250 RS, but on similar engines the camshaft chain needs to be replaced around 60,000 kilometers. Some small engine motorcycles even 100,000km, so 6,000 kilometers is something what can only point to something else wrong what damaged the chain... therefore replacing only the chain is probably completely useless...

If your mechanic is not capable to find the problem I would suggest that you contact Tiger Motorcycles, as 6,000 kilometers is well within the factory warranty. (or is the bike already 3-years old?)

[wana]

I'm not 100% sure, I not have a technical manual of a Tiger Boxer 250 RS, but on similar engines the camshaft chain needs to be replaced around 60,000 kilometers. Some small engine motorcycles even 100,000km, so 6,000 kilometers is something what can only point to something else wrong what damaged the chain... therefore replacing only the chain is probably completely useless...

If your mechanic is not capable to find the problem I would suggest that you contact Tiger Motorcycles, as 6,000 kilometers is well within the factory warranty. (or is the bike already 3-years old?)

it was the official tiger repair centre who called me to ask if i wanted the cam chain replaced (bikes still in warranty -just 2 yr old )but they say cam chains is a disposable item so is not included in warranty and must be payed for

my options are :

if i want i can pick up the bike now ,probably still not running well after the third service in 3 fxxking weeks

pick it up tomorrow with the new cam chain fitted ,which will probably run ok for a couple of days and then deterioriate rapidly .....

same thing happened last week ,they replaced a black spark plug with a clean one ,after 2 days i took it ouot to look , the new one was also black ............

[Richard-BKK]

I'm pretty sure that the camshaft chain should be replaced after 60,000 kilometer, so if you just did 6,000 kilometer – something is wrong with the engine... sprockets not aligned (all I cannot see how that is possible) or something else... maybe the oil circulation doesn't work as it should...

Yes, I agree, under normal circumstances (after a +/- 60,000km) you should pay for a new camshaft chain. But clearly something else is wrong with the result that the camshaft chain prematurely needs replacement.

I not want to sound negative about Tiger Motor, but it's hard to believe that the service of Tiger went so much steps back... I would try to talk to somebody higher in charge... a simple mechanic just follows basic rules, and I can understand that the camshaft chain is not on the list of warranty replacements... but for everything they should have exceptions...

[Semper]

I'm not 100% sure, I not have a technical manual of a Tiger Boxer 250 RS, but on similar engines the camshaft chain needs to be replaced around 60,000 kilometers. Some small engine motorcycles even 100,000km, so 6,000 kilometers is something what can only point to something else wrong what damaged the chain... therefore replacing only the chain is probably completely useless...

If your mechanic is not capable to find the problem I would suggest that you contact Tiger Motorcycles, as 6,000 kilometers is well within the factory warranty. (or is the bike already 3-years old?)

Sound more likeley to be something wrong with the camchain tensioner. The chain should last a long time.

[wana]

I not want to sound negative about Tiger Motor, but it's hard to believe that the service of Tiger went so much steps back... I would try to talk to somebody higher in charge... a simple mechanic just follows basic rules, and I can understand that the camshaft chain is not on the list of warranty replacements... but for everything they should have exceptions...

ive been dealing with their Manager ever since the first service went wrong ,how much higher can i go ? CEO ? share holders ?

it just seems like theyde rather fix the symptom than the underlying fault

i live beside the service centre so i can drop it in anytime for repairs but this is taking the p1ss that they cant fix one of their own bikes properly

[wantan]

Wana, communication between Khun Pariya (i guess this is who you contacted) and the mechanics is not always the best. Its not easy for the mechanics to report everything to their boss, who is than making the decision. A "worn camshaft chain" can mean everything i guess. Maybe they need a reason to open the engine to fix something else? I am just guessing.

I would let them change the chain. But i agree, this is not normal, it should be under warranty if your bike has just 6000km on it. There must be a reason for the chain to be worn out. I would try to ask the mechanic directly about it.

[thaicbr]

Have you had a look at the offending cam chain.. it seems more likely that after the other attempts the mechanic may be airing on the wrong side of caution... In as much as it's normal wear and tear. but as it's open do you want to change it... Just guessing though.

I hope it gets sorted.. The main problem with a lot of Thai mechanics is...... they are NOT mechanics just service guys so have NO fault finding expertise.. also they will ALWAYS try and save you money even when you just want something replacing...

I went to a garage to get a service on my truck. i also wanted the cam belt changed. They serviced the truck but didn't change the cam belt.. later informing my gf that it wasn't due yet.. the truck had 180,000km.

They just presumed it had been changed at 100,000km and i had 20,000km to go........

That could have been expensive. The moral of my story is most if not all service mechanics are crap

[wana]

Have you had a look at the offending cam chain.. it seems more likely that after the other attempts the mechanic may be airing on the wrong side of caution... In as much as it's normal wear and tear. but as it's open do you want to change it... Just guessing though.

I hope it gets sorted.. The main problem with a lot of Thai mechanics is...... they are NOT mechanics just service guys so have NO fault finding expertise.. also they will ALWAYS try and save you money even when you just want something replacing...

I went to a garage to get a service on my truck. i also wanted the cam belt changed. They serviced the truck but didn't change the cam belt.. later informing my gf that it wasn't due yet.. the truck had 180,000km.

They just presumed it had been changed at 100,000km and i had 20,000km to go........

That could have been expensive. The moral of my story is most if not all service mechanics are crap

i have not worked on the bike personally at all except for checking a spark plug so i dont know what the inside of the engine looks like ,

all work has been done at the tiger centre by tigers own mechanics

every time i go there i tell them to fix every problem ,some are covered by warranty and some i pay with cash so theres no cost issue

i love the style of the bike .............if only they could get it to work

i understand there may be a language barrier between me and the mechanics but a language barrier between khun pariya and the mechanics is a bit harder to digest

its just a shame if they cant fix one of their own bikes ,im willing to pay for everything they need to fix it but its misfiring , vibrating itself to pieces and the engine sometimes dies at low speeds without warning ,not to mention it doesnt like to go into neutral gear and its still leaking oil

i dont think its safe to drive a bike like that in bkk but best not make any judgemnets until i get it back

[thaicbr]

Have you had a look at the offending cam chain.. it seems more likely that after the other attempts the mechanic may be airing on the wrong side of caution... In as much as it's normal wear and tear. but as it's open do you want to change it... Just guessing though.

I hope it gets sorted.. The main problem with a lot of Thai mechanics is...... they are NOT mechanics just service guys so have NO fault finding expertise.. also they will ALWAYS try and save you money even when you just want something replacing...

I went to a garage to get a service on my truck. i also wanted the cam belt changed. They serviced the truck but didn't change the cam belt.. later informing my gf that it wasn't due yet.. the truck had 180,000km.

They just presumed it had been changed at 100,000km and i had 20,000km to go........

That could have been expensive. The moral of my story is most if not all service mechanics are crap

i have not worked on the bike personally at all except for checking a spark plug so i dont know what the inside of the engine looks like ,

all work has been done at the tiger centre by tigers own mechanics

every time i go there i tell them to fix every problem ,some are covered by warranty and some i pay with cash so theres no cost issue

i love the style of the bike .............if only they could get it to work

i understand there may be a language barrier between me and the mechanics but a language barrier between khun pariya and the mechanics is a bit harder to digest

its just a shame if they cant fix one of their own bikes ,im willing to pay for everything they need to fix it but its misfiring , vibrating itself to pieces and the engine sometimes dies at low speeds without warning ,not to mention it doesnt like to go into neutral gear and its still leaking oil

i dont think its safe to drive a bike like that in bkk but best not make any judgemnets until i get it back

It's not a language barrier between Khun Pariya and the mechanics as such (Although Mr P does not know a lot about mechanical stuff) but more a face issue. Mr P is the owners nephew so the mechanics are loath to admit fault (standard problem here)

If you have time i would stay while they are doing the work to ensure they are doing what you want. Thai's just do not see the same problems that we do.. the speedo rattles...mai pen rai.... the engine clonks a bit...go slower...or faster so you do not hear it

The trick is trying to find out what the problems are and staying, pointing . gestictulating etc until they understand.

Have fun.. it's not just Tiger it can happen with them all.. But it's still not good.

ps.. it sounds to me that a lot of the problems.. misfire etc are carb issues.. ask for a new carb, boot etc.. also ensure they have actually replaced the airfilter..as for the oil leaking.. where is it coming from?

Edited September 27, 2011 by thaicbr

[wana]

Have you had a look at the offending cam chain.. it seems more likely that after the other attempts the mechanic may be airing on the wrong side of caution... In as much as it's normal wear and tear. but as it's open do you want to change it... Just guessing though.

I hope it gets sorted.. The main problem with a lot of Thai mechanics is...... they are NOT mechanics just service guys so have NO fault finding expertise.. also they will ALWAYS try and save you money even when you just want something replacing...

I went to a garage to get a service on my truck. i also wanted the cam belt changed. They serviced the truck but didn't change the cam belt.. later informing my gf that it wasn't due yet.. the truck had 180,000km.

They just presumed it had been changed at 100,000km and i had 20,000km to go........

That could have been expensive. The moral of my story is most if not all service mechanics are crap

i have not worked on the bike personally at all except for checking a spark plug so i dont know what the inside of the engine looks like ,

all work has been done at the tiger centre by tigers own mechanics

every time i go there i tell them to fix every problem ,some are covered by warranty and some i pay with cash so theres no cost issue

i love the style of the bike .............if only they could get it to work

i understand there may be a language barrier between me and the mechanics but a language barrier between khun pariya and the mechanics is a bit harder to digest

its just a shame if they cant fix one of their own bikes ,im willing to pay for everything they need to fix it but its misfiring , vibrating itself to pieces and the engine sometimes dies at low speeds without warning ,not to mention it doesnt like to go into neutral gear and its still leaking oil

i dont think its safe to drive a bike like that in bkk but best not make any judgemnets until i get it back

It's not a language barrier between Khun Pariya and the mechanics as such (Although Mr P does not know a lot about mechanical stuff) but more a face issue. Mr P is the owners nephew so the mechanics are loath to admit fault (standard problem here)

If you have time i would stay while they are doing the work to ensure they are doing what you want. Thai's just do not see the same problems that we do.. the speedo rattles...mai pen rai.... the engine clonks a bit...go slower...or faster so you do not hear it

The trick is trying to find out what the problems are and staying, pointing . gestictulating etc until they understand.

Have fun.. it's not just Tiger it can happen with them all.. But it's still not good.

ps.. it sounds to me that a lot of the problems.. misfire etc are carb issues.. ask for a new carb, boot etc.. also ensure they have actually replaced the airfilter..as for the oil leaking.. where is it coming from?

its hard to ensure theyve done everything they say they have without bringing a toolbox and taking the engine apart to see exactly what is or isnt new in front of them

if you ask them a question the answer is always yes

i have mentioned the carb a couple of times but they dont seem to want to go near it (possibly too complicatated /costly or maybe there is no replacement carbs in stock as they are concentrated on EFI engines now

changing the plug works as a quick fix to make it run a little better but thats just a quick fix and id expect more from their number 1 service centre

hopefully it comes back in decent condition but i wont be holding my breath

[Richard-BKK]

It's a long shot, but the source of your problems can be the ignition timing, if it's just a few micro seconds to early and one of the valve's is not 100% closed it will effect the whole camshaft assembly. If the ignition timing is just a little-little bit off it can over 6,000km destroy things by introducing unnatural wear and vibrations...

It will also explain why your motorcycle doesn't have the best combustion and destroys spark plugs....

[wana]

It's a long shot, but the source of your problems can be the ignition timing, if it's just a few micro seconds to early and one of the valve's is not 100% closed it will effect the whole camshaft assembly. If the ignition timing is just a little-little bit off it can over 6,000km destroy things by introducing unnatural wear and vibrations...

It will also explain why your motorcycle doesn't have the best combustion and destroys spark plugs....

if this bike gets any worse il have to buy anti-theft insurance and park it at the thai - cambodia border and come back after a week or two to check if its still there .........

[bbradsby]

Don't feel alone. I had a Brand New Honda 500 eat a tensioner- supposedly under warranty. Zero support from Honda and the dealer. That was the Last Honda Ever for yours truly. And I lost count of the bikes i bought after that. Screw em.

A camchain should be good for the life of the engine, til IT needs a rebuild. only cam belts are 'disposables', well besides maybe your bike as a whole! the tensioner probably went South. Look at the cam sprocket for wear, and replace sprockets, the chain and tensioner if shot. but this most likely entails a full tear-down.

[vel_tins]

Maybe they (or somebody) messed up the cam timings in former repair attempts...

This would also explain the misfiring etc.

I don't know how much work it is with the Tiger, to set the correct timing.

Maybe a lot, so maybe, they try to charge you for the work/parts and call it "need to replace chain"

Who knows...

And sure, a timing chain should work 60.000 with no problems.

It sounds very, very fishy to me

Edited September 30, 2011 by vel_tins

[Richard-BKK]

Adjusting the ignition timing on the Tiger Boxer 250 RS is not very difficult, still if timing was for 6,000km not perfect the engine has likely some worn parts (camshaft chain...).

Personally I would not make so much fuss about a 500 THB camshaft chain, I would be more concerned that I'm not back in 6,000km for another camshaft chain.. and likely more damaged parts along the way...

[vel_tins]

Adjusting the ignition timing on the Tiger Boxer 250 RS is not very difficult, still if timing was for 6,000km not perfect the engine has likely some worn parts (camshaft chain...).

Personally I would not make so much fuss about a 500 THB camshaft chain, I would be more concerned that I'm not back in 6,000km for another camshaft chain.. and likely more damaged parts along the way...

I don't mean the ignition timing, I talk from the crankshaft/camshaft timing.

Generally (not sure about the Tiger), you have to lose/change the tensioner, remove some cylinder head parts (cover..), maybe lose/remove the cam to adjust(?)etc...etc...

BUT: wrong timings, have definitely absolut no effect on the chain wear!

A broken tensioner can cause chain wear, but not wrong timings.