Military Reshuffle Prompts Red-Shirt Warning To Government

[Lite Beer]

Military reshuffle prompts red-shirt warning to govt

Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation on Sunday

The Pheu Thai government should think again if it plans not to investigate and prosecute those who masterminded the deadly crackdown on red shirts in April and May 2010, warned Nattaputt Akahad, younger brother of nurse Kamolkaed Akahad, one of the highest-profile fatalities in last year's clashes.

The warning came as Nattaputt and some 200 other red shirts gathered at Democracy Monument yesterday to express their displeasure at Friday's military reshuffle, which saw at least three senior Army officers involved in the crackdown being promoted.

While Nattaputt stopped short of accusing Pheu Thai - which he and other reds helped elect - of betrayal, his words have become increasingly terse and bitter as more and more people have begun to wonder if those responsible for the crackdown will ever be brought to justice.

"Whatever the government is thinking, it should think carefully, because people are watching," Nattaputt said at Democracy Monument. "People died so they could come to power, right? Are they going to step on the bodies without caring?"

Nattaputt said the promotion of generals involved in the crackdown, including the appointment of General Dapong Rattanasuwan, a classmate of Army chief General Prayuth Chan-ocha, to the position of Army chief of staff, was wrong. The government should have waited until these officers were cleared by investigations in responsibility for the deaths, instead of promoting them now and disappointing the red shirts.

The 22-year-old Nattaputt, who has become a high-profile member of the red shirt movement since his elder sister was shot to death at Wat Prathum Wanaram last year, warned that promoting such officers could lead to another coup. However, Nattaputt refused to place the blame solely on the Pheu Thai-led government.

"There's still a dark force that interferes with the government's work, especially in the military reshuffle," he said, vowing to accept nothing less than the naming and prosecution of those responsible for the 92 deaths. Most of the fatalities were red shirts.

"If the Pheu Thai government won't fight, if the Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship [DAAD] won't fight, I will," he said, bitterly. "Let me at least sever the legs of [the person responsible for the deaths]. Then I won't be demanding justice any more."

But the task looks like an uphill battle, at least to Nattaputt's younger brother Nattakrit, who admits that only three or four families who lost loved ones still firmly want to see the killers and the masterminds brought to justice. The rest, said Nattakrit, would settle for monetary compensation.

"There's just three or four [families] left. The rest will call it quits when they receive the money. Most just want money."

-- The Nation 2011-10-02

[TAWP]

Or how about investigating who was behind the planning of the siege and who bankrolled it?

[Derifo]

Or how about investigating who was behind the planning of the siege and who bankrolled it?

That's the real way forward.

[timekeeper]

Or how about investigating who was behind the planning of the siege and who bankrolled it?

easy one word answer-shinawatra

[whybother]

The government should have waited until these officers were cleared by investigations in responsibility for the deaths

That probably should have applied to the red shirts that were elected MPs too, rather than using MP immunity to avoid investigation.

[phiphidon]

The government should have waited until these officers were cleared by investigations in responsibility for the deaths

That probably should have applied to the red shirts that were elected MPs too, rather than using MP immunity to avoid investigation.

You are aware that the Red Shirt MP's involved offered to give up their immunity to face charges aren't you?

Nine red-shirt MPs, led by Jatuporn Prompan, have expressed their wish to be waived their parliamentary privilegeand if rejected by the House speaker, they will ask the Department of Special Investigation to refile the charges against them.

http://www.thailando...?DataID=1047576

and the request from Tharit of the DSI to do the same was voted down

The House Thursday voted to reject the request by the Department of Special Investigation to lift legal immunityof nine Pheu Thai Party MP's.

http://www.nationmul...9-30164791.html

So what do you suggest they do?

[rogerdee123]

Maybe the Red Shirts will join the military for the next coup.

[whybother]

So what do you suggest they do?

If we're to listen to Nattaput, the red shirts that were under investigations relating to last years (and probably previous) protests shouldn't have stood for parliament.

[phiphidon]

So what do you suggest they do?

If we're to listen to Nattaput, the red shirts that were under investigations relating to last years (and probably previous) protests shouldn't have stood for parliament.

If we're to listen to Nattaput properly, as stated in the OP and not your interpretation of what he was saying, we would find that he was talking about the promotions of military officers involved in last years protests not the red shirts who stood for parliament.

[pimay11]

So what do you suggest they do?

If we're to listen to Nattaput, the red shirts that were under investigations relating to last years (and probably previous) protests shouldn't have stood for parliament.

If we're to listen to Nattaput properly, as stated in the OP and not your interpretation of what he was saying, we would find that he was talking about the promotions of military officers involved in last years protests not the red shirts who stood for parliament.

Double standards by chance? Of couse not. The reds would never stand for this would they?

[SICHONSTEVE]

"People died so they could come to power, right? Are they going to step on the bodies without caring?"

Errrrr....... Yes!!!!! Didn't they know this was going to happen???? It was obvious to me and many others who can see through their selfish and disingenuous intentions!!! They don't care one iota about their dispensible brothers (only Thaksin's welfare and ill-intentioned agenda counts). How stupid of them not to know this would happen - it's too late now though Ha Ha Ha .

Next question!!!

Edited October 2, 2011 by SICHONSTEVE

[whybother]

If we're to listen to Nattaput properly, as stated in the OP and not your interpretation of what he was saying, we would find that he was talking about the promotions of military officers involved in last years protests not the red shirts who stood for parliament.

Nattaput said that the officers shouldn't be promoted while under investigation. But he's ok with the red shirt leaders standing for parliament while under investigation.

[phiphidon]

So what do you suggest they do?

If we're to listen to Nattaput, the red shirts that were under investigations relating to last years (and probably previous) protests shouldn't have stood for parliament.

If we're to listen to Nattaput properly, as stated in the OP and not your interpretation of what he was saying, we would find that he was talking about the promotions of military officers involved in last years protests not the red shirts who stood for parliament.

Double standards by chance? Of couse not. The reds would never stand for this would they?

I would imagine that having had your medic sister shot 3 times and killed by the Army and then have it consistently denied that was what had happened by the Army, and then that view being backed up by the PM and DPM, I'd somehow doubt that you would be particularly interested in the semantics of double standards.

But you go ahead, party, it's only a young persons life we're talking about here.............................

[phiphidon]

If we're to listen to Nattaput properly, as stated in the OP and not your interpretation of what he was saying, we would find that he was talking about the promotions of military officers involved in last years protests not the red shirts who stood for parliament.

Nattaput said that the officers shouldn't be promoted while under investigation. But he's ok with the red shirt leaders standing for parliament while under investigation.

I think he has more of a vested interest in those that shot and killed his sister.

[phiphidon]

"People died so they could come to power, right? Are they going to step on the bodies without caring?"

Errrrr....... Yes!!!!! Didn't they know this was going to happen???? It was obvious to me and many others who can see through their selfish and disingenuous intentions!!! They don't care one iota about their dispensible brothers (only Thaksin's welfare and ill-intentioned agenda counts). How stupid of them not to know this would happen - it's too late now though Ha Ha Ha .

Next question!!!

Do you seriously find the deaths of people amusing?

[SICHONSTEVE]

"People died so they could come to power, right? Are they going to step on the bodies without caring?"

Errrrr....... Yes!!!!! Didn't they know this was going to happen???? It was obvious to me and many others who can see through their selfish and disingenuous intentions!!! They don't care one iota about their dispensible brothers (only Thaksin's welfare and ill-intentioned agenda counts). How stupid of them not to know this would happen - it's too late now though Ha Ha Ha .

Next question!!!

Do you seriously find the deaths of people amusing?

Noooo!!! Why do you say this?????

[pimay11]

So what do you suggest they do?

If we're to listen to Nattaput, the red shirts that were under investigations relating to last years (and probably previous) protests shouldn't have stood for parliament.

If we're to listen to Nattaput properly, as stated in the OP and not your interpretation of what he was saying, we would find that he was talking about the promotions of military officers involved in last years protests not the red shirts who stood for parliament.

Double standards by chance? Of couse not. The reds would never stand for this would they?

You are correct in stating if my sister was killed I would want the person responsibile arrested and prosecuted accordingly. The entire fiasco of the reds "peaceful" occupation of central Bangkok was only a party to Nattawut and company. This is what the party emotion icon represents. And to them it had absolutely nothing to do with democracy. They had to have some reason to convince the poor people in order to gain their support. Every death during that time was regrettable and preventable if the red leaders had held a truely peaceful demonstration. But no they incited the crowd daily with hatred and "bring your pertol containers and we will burn Bangkok to the ground" speeches. But I have yet to read one word of remorse form any red leader concerning their actions. They want the previous government and army held accountable but refuse to accept any responsibility for their own actions. This is truely double standards.

[plumeria]

Any Thai who is working to CHANGE the country into one with more social equality, more justice, more freedom, less censorship, great accountability has my support and sympathy.

It's because too many people sit and do nothing about that which they know needs changing that the country remains mired in this cycle of evil politicians raping and pillaging the country to their own benefit.

It's sad to see people now hoping things will improve for their GRANDCHILDREN rather than their children.

The time for change is not some far, vague distant time.

Whatever shirt color, at least they are trying to make things better and maybe what is the best path for the country will result from the discussion and debate.

Being unable to talk about things openly just leaves one other option for changing things for the better.

[SICHONSTEVE]

So what do you suggest they do?

]

If we're to listen to Nattaput properly, as stated in the OP and not your interpretation of what he was saying, we would find that he was talking about the promotions of military officers involved in last years protests not the red shirts who stood for parliament.

Double standards by chance? Of couse not. The reds would never stand for this would they?

You are correct in stating if my sister was killed I would want the person responsibile arrested and prosecuted accordingly. The entire fiasco of the reds "peaceful" occupation of central Bangkok was only a party to Nattawut and company. This is what the party emotion icon represents. And to them it had absolutely nothing to do with democracy. They had to have some reason to convince the poor people in order to gain their support. Every death during that time was regrettable and preventable if the red leaders had held a truely peaceful demonstration. But no they incited the crowd daily with hatred and "bring your pertol containers and we will burn Bangkok to the ground" speeches. But I have yet to read one word of remorse form any red leader concerning their actions. They want the previous government and army held accountable but refuse to accept any responsibility for their own actions. This is truely double standards.

Well stated!!! How true your words are.:jap:

[OzMick]

]

You are aware that the Red Shirt MP's involved offered to give up their immunity to face charges aren't you?

Nine red-shirt MPs, led by Jatuporn Prompan, have expressed their wish to be waived their parliamentary privilegeand if rejected by the House speaker, they will ask the Department of Special Investigation to refile the charges against them.

http://www.thailando...?DataID=1047576

and the request from Tharit of the DSI to do the same was voted down

The House Thursday voted to reject the request by the Department of Special Investigation to lift legal immunityof nine Pheu Thai Party MP's.

http://www.nationmul...9-30164791.html

So what do you suggest they do?

Come off it Don. You don't really think the giving up of immunity was genuine do you? Their PTP mates can't risk an investigation putting the blame for the deaths fairly and squarely on the Red Shirts after they have given them MP status. The whole house of cards would collapse and reveal the ugly truth - that the rally had nothing to do with democracy or the coup, it was simply an attempt to destabilise and denigrate the Democrat government, and for that to happen their had to be a considerable number of deaths of the protesters. Once they had the army on the offensive, who's going to know who is shooting whom in the confusion and dark.

As for the nurse, what motive/explanation is there for the deaths after the rally collapse. Some rogue troops suddenly break discipline and start shooting those who had already surrendered, or a continuation of the red shirt objectives of denigration and destabilisation?

Edited October 2, 2011 by OzMick

[phiphidon]

Double standards by chance? Of couse not. The reds would never stand for this would they?

You are correct in stating if my sister was killed I would want the person responsibile arrested and prosecuted accordingly. The entire fiasco of the reds "peaceful" occupation of central Bangkok was only a party to Nattawut and company. This is what the party emotion icon represents. And to them it had absolutely nothing to do with democracy. They had to have some reason to convince the poor people in order to gain their support. Every death during that time was regrettable and preventable if the red leaders had held a truely peaceful demonstration. But no they incited the crowd daily with hatred and "bring your pertol containers and we will burn Bangkok to the ground" speeches. But I have yet to read one word of remorse form any red leader concerning their actions. They want the previous government and army held accountable but refuse to accept any responsibility for their own actions. This is truely double standards.

Well I'm glad that you know exactly what motivated 'nattawut and company". What part of red shrt MP's offering up their immunity to prosecution to answer the charges against them in court do you not understand? If you're not happy with that wait until parliamentary recess and then they will go to court to answer the charges then. NO security official has been charged with anything to do with the protests last year. This was pointed out by the Abhisit appointed TRC panel as a potential flashpoint for further disturbances due to real double standards.

[phiphidon]

]

You are aware that the Red Shirt MP's involved offered to give up their immunity to face charges aren't you?

Nine red-shirt MPs, led by Jatuporn Prompan, have expressed their wish to be waived their parliamentary privilegeand if rejected by the House speaker, they will ask the Department of Special Investigation to refile the charges against them.

http://www.thailando...?DataID=1047576

and the request from Tharit of the DSI to do the same was voted down

The House Thursday voted to reject the request by the Department of Special Investigation to lift legal immunityof nine Pheu Thai Party MP's.

http://www.nationmul...9-30164791.html

So what do you suggest they do?

Come off it Don. You don't really think the giving up of immunity was genuine do you? Their PTP mates can't risk an investigation putting the blame for the deaths fairly and squarely on the Red Shirts after they have given them MP status. The whole house of cards would collapse and reveal the ugly truth - that the rally had nothing to do with democracy or the coup, it was simply an attempt to destabilise and denigrate the Democrat government, and for that to happen their had to be a considerable number of deaths of the protesters. Once they had the army on the offensive, who's going to know who is shooting whom in the confusion and dark.

As for the nurse, what motive/explanation is there for the deaths after the rally collapse. Some rogue troops suddenly break discipline and start shooting those who had already surrendered, or a continuation of the red shirt objectives of denigration and destabilisation?

As I said, you only have to wait until the parliamentary recess and there will be no immunity and their cases can be discussed in court - and then we'll see if your "red shirt leaders sacrificing the lives of their supporters" conspiracy theory is correct.

As for your last statement. I'm afraid I can't even dignify that with a reply.

[animatic]

Cracks showing around the edges and only 2 months old...

When you create a monomaniacal group with tunnel vision to use as a pressure group, after it does your bidding it can easily become hard to control. We are seeing that now, and it will not get less.

Edited October 2, 2011 by animatic

[metisdead]

Posts that were nonsensical and slurs have been removed as well as the replies.

7) Not to post slurs or degrading comments directed towards any group on the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

[OzMick]

]

You are aware that the Red Shirt MP's involved offered to give up their immunity to face charges aren't you?

So what do you suggest they do?

Come off it Don. You don't really think the giving up of immunity was genuine do you? Their PTP mates can't risk an investigation putting the blame for the deaths fairly and squarely on the Red Shirts after they have given them MP status. The whole house of cards would collapse and reveal the ugly truth - that the rally had nothing to do with democracy or the coup, it was simply an attempt to destabilise and denigrate the Democrat government, and for that to happen their had to be a considerable number of deaths of the protesters. Once they had the army on the offensive, who's going to know who is shooting whom in the confusion and dark.

As for the nurse, what motive/explanation is there for the deaths after the rally collapse. Some rogue troops suddenly break discipline and start shooting those who had already surrendered, or a continuation of the red shirt objectives of denigration and destabilisation?

As I said, you only have to wait until the parliamentary recess and there will be no immunity and their cases can be discussed in court - and then we'll see if your "red shirt leaders sacrificing the lives of their supporters" conspiracy theory is correct.

As for your last statement. I'm afraid I can't even dignify that with a reply.

I forgot to answer your earlier question. As their party has a considerable majority, they could step down until the investigation and court case is complete. This is routine under the Westminster system.

[pimay11]

Double standards by chance? Of couse not. The reds would never stand for this would they?

You are correct in stating if my sister was killed I would want the person responsibile arrested and prosecuted accordingly. The entire fiasco of the reds "peaceful" occupation of central Bangkok was only a party to Nattawut and company. This is what the party emotion icon represents. And to them it had absolutely nothing to do with democracy. They had to have some reason to convince the poor people in order to gain their support. Every death during that time was regrettable and preventable if the red leaders had held a truely peaceful demonstration. But no they incited the crowd daily with hatred and "bring your pertol containers and we will burn Bangkok to the ground" speeches. But I have yet to read one word of remorse form any red leader concerning their actions. They want the previous government and army held accountable but refuse to accept any responsibility for their own actions. This is truely double standards.

Well I'm glad that you know exactly what motivated 'nattawut and company". What part of red shrt MP's offering up their immunity to prosecution to answer the charges against them in court do you not understand? If you're not happy with that wait until parliamentary recess and then they will go to court to answer the charges then. NO security official has been charged with anything to do with the protests last year. This was pointed out by the Abhisit appointed TRC panel as a potential flashpoint for further disturbances due to real double standards.

Surely you are not naive enough to believe the "offering up their immunity to prosecution" was not a well orchestrated publicity stunt with the outcome already decided. I am not happy or sad by the outcome. Correct me if I am wrong. In your opinion there are double standards commited by the Abhisit adminstration but NO double standards commited by the red camp.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Double standards by chance? Of couse not. The reds would never stand for this would they?

You are correct in stating if my sister was killed I would want the person responsibile arrested and prosecuted accordingly. The entire fiasco of the reds "peaceful" occupation of central Bangkok was only a party to Nattawut and company. This is what the party emotion icon represents. And to them it had absolutely nothing to do with democracy. They had to have some reason to convince the poor people in order to gain their support. Every death during that time was regrettable and preventable if the red leaders had held a truely peaceful demonstration. But no they incited the crowd daily with hatred and "bring your pertol containers and we will burn Bangkok to the ground" speeches. But I have yet to read one word of remorse form any red leader concerning their actions. They want the previous government and army held accountable but refuse to accept any responsibility for their own actions. This is truely double standards.

Well I'm glad that you know exactly what motivated 'nattawut and company". What part of red shrt MP's offering up their immunity to prosecution to answer the charges against them in court do you not understand? If you're not happy with that wait until parliamentary recess and then they will go to court to answer the charges then. NO security official has been charged with anything to do with the protests last year. This was pointed out by the Abhisit appointed TRC panel as a potential flashpoint for further disturbances due to real double standards.

Surely you are not naive enough to believe the "offering up their immunity to prosecution" was not a well orchestrated publicity stunt with the outcome already decided. I am not happy or sad by the outcome. Correct me if I am wrong. In your opinion there are double standards commited by the Abhisit adminstration but NO double standards commited by the red camp.

.....and that, in itself, is double standards of the highest order!!!!:jap:.

[kimamey]

"People died so they could come to power, right? Are they going to step on the bodies without caring?"

Errrrr....... Yes!!!!! Didn't they know this was going to happen???? It was obvious to me and many others who can see through their selfish and disingenuous intentions!!! They don't care one iota about their dispensible brothers (only Thaksin's welfare and ill-intentioned agenda counts). How stupid of them not to know this would happen - it's too late now though Ha Ha Ha .

Next question!!!

Do you seriously find the deaths of people amusing?

Noooo!!! Why do you say this?????

I think your comment Ha Ha Ha might be the reason.

[SICHONSTEVE]

"People died so they could come to power, right? Are they going to step on the bodies without caring?"

Errrrr....... Yes!!!!! Didn't they know this was going to happen???? It was obvious to me and many others who can see through their selfish and disingenuous intentions!!! They don't care one iota about their dispensible brothers (only Thaksin's welfare and ill-intentioned agenda counts). How stupid of them not to know this would happen - it's too late now though Ha Ha Ha .

Next question!!!

Do you seriously find the deaths of people amusing?

Noooo!!! Why do you say this?????

I think your comment Ha Ha Ha might be the reason.

What, laughing at the red shirts naivity!!!! I wasn't laughing at the deaths or anything else - simply on how the red shirts did all of Thaksin's dirty work for him and then got disgarded in such cruel fashion. It was patently obvious it was going to end this way, wasn't it?? ie: in tears for all the Joe Muggins he recruited to lay down their lives for Thaksin's immoral purpose of getting his sis into power for his own means!!!!!! .

[AleG]

Any Thai who is working to CHANGE the country into one with more social equality, more justice, more freedom, less censorship, great accountability has my support and sympathy.

It's because too many people sit and do nothing about that which they know needs changing that the country remains mired in this cycle of evil politicians raping and pillaging the country to their own benefit.

It's sad to see people now hoping things will improve for their GRANDCHILDREN rather than their children.

The time for change is not some far, vague distant time.

Whatever shirt color, at least they are trying to make things better and maybe what is the best path for the country will result from the discussion and debate.

Being unable to talk about things openly just leaves one other option for changing things for the better.

Quite appropriately to the topic, yesterday I translated a fragment of a text by a 18th century Argentinian politician to share with some friends:

"If the people are not educated, if their rights are not explained, if every man does not know his own worth, what he is capable of and what is owed to him, new illusions will succeed the old ones, and after faltering for some time amid a thousand uncertainties, it may come to be that our fortune will be to replace tyrants without destroying tyranny."

Prologue of Mariano Moreno to Rousseau's "The Social Contract"