Retirees? What'S Your Thai Living Budget?

[cardholder]

...there will be either medical insurance ( a total waste of money IMHO)...

Brilliant financial advice! Glad you are not my financial adviser. Got a few hundred thousand Baht socked away if you need cardiovascular or liver surgery since you "smoke and drink a lot of beer" I would imagine???

Insurance (health, accident, auto, motorcycle, etc.) should be on the top of the list for expats moving here.

Not quite top - but I take your point.

[ludditeman]

...there will be either medical insurance ( a total waste of money IMHO)...

Brilliant financial advice! Glad you are not my financial adviser. Got a few hundred thousand Baht socked away if you need cardiovascular or liver surgery since you "smoke and drink a lot of beer" I would imagine???

Insurance (health, accident, auto, motorcycle, etc.) should be on the top of the list for expats moving here.

This is a very American idea, most of Europe don't give a fig about insurance.

When your time is up. you die.

Basic medical care in Thailand is very cheap, if you own a condo/lease/usafunct and have a yellow house book, it is free.

[elektrified]

...there will be either medical insurance ( a total waste of money IMHO)...

Brilliant financial advice! Glad you are not my financial adviser. Got a few hundred thousand Baht socked away if you need cardiovascular or liver surgery since you "smoke and drink a lot of beer" I would imagine???

Insurance (health, accident, auto, motorcycle, etc.) should be on the top of the list for expats moving here.

This is a very American idea, most of Europe don't give a fig about insurance.

When your time is up. you die.

Basic medical care in Thailand is very cheap, if you own a condo/lease/usafunct and have a yellow house book, it is free.

That's because health care in Europe is socialized for the most part (not Switzerland of course), or partially socialized like in the Netherlands.

The free health care you get with a yellow book is the worst available in Thailand. Most Thais won't even use the services unless they are dirt poor.

[NancyL]

Based on what I've seen with several friends, I'd suggest that anyone who plans to retire here and either doesn't want to or can't obtain health insurance have at least 100,000 baht socked away in Thailand in an account that is over and above what you need to maintain your retirement visa. It should be in an account that can be accessed by a friend or family member easily in case you're in a coma in a hospital emergency room and can't give directions on how to obtain the money. Most of the private hospitals ask for 1/2 the estimated cost of your hospital bill up front and 100,000 baht should cover 1/2 the cost of most emergencies. If you aren't from a home country with socialized medicine available to you, then you should have 200,000 baht socked away here if you rely on Thailand as your sole source of medical care.

Edited October 6, 2011 by NancyL

[ludditeman]

The free health care you get with a yellow book is the worst available in Thailand. Most Thais won't even use the services unless they are dirt poor.

Almost every Thai person I know uses the free Thai health care system, it appears to me to be very good, but there is a lot of waiting around. Most people from Europe are used to waiting around to see doctors.

American dependence on insurance is ridiculous.

Edited October 6, 2011 by ludditeman

[Thaifan2]

I live on the new Thai average of B300 a day .It helps that i am a-sexual though .LOL !!!

[elektrified]

The free health care you get with a yellow book is the worst available in Thailand. Most Thais won't even use the services unless they are dirt poor.

Almost every Thai person I know uses the free Thai health care system, it appears to me to be very good, but there is a lot of waiting around. Most people from Europe are used to waiting around to see doctors.

American dependence on insurance is ridiculous.

I can't think of one Thai that I know that uses the free Thai health care system; either middle class or wealthy friends of mine. Most of them go to Ram, Sripat or McCormick either through private insurance, employment insurance or cash out of pocket. The government hospitals like Ruam Phaet and Nakornping offer less than adequate services for the average Thai. I don't know who your circle of friends is but I think you may be incorrect.

You have a strange attitude about healthcare, insurance, and seem to be misinformed. Furthermore, most Thais (even middle-class) have a multitude of insurance policies for all kinds of things. The Swiss do as well. It's not an American thing.

My friend in Bangkok was boarding a plane at Suvarnabhumi for an International flight and it seemed he was having a heart attack as he was seated. He was taken off the plane and transported to the hospital by ambulance. He was hospitalized for 3 days, underwent a battery of heart tests, a procedure was done and he was handed a 125,000 Baht bill. When he was discharged, 2 guys from the hospital escorted him to the bank to make sure he paid the bill. He was uninsured.

Edited October 6, 2011 by elektrified

[ludditeman]

I can't think of one Thai that I know that uses the free Thai health care system; either middle class or wealthy friends of mine. Most of them go to Ram, Sripat or McCormick either through private insurance, employment insurance or cash out of pocket. The government hospitals like Ruam Phaet and Nakornping offer less than adequate services for the average Thai. I don't know who your circle of friends is but I think you may be incorrect.

You have given your own answer, you don't know any normal Thais.

67% of the Thai population are poor rural farmers, by definition these must be 'normal Thais' as they account for the majority of the population.

The middle class and wealthy Thais account for less than 15% of the total population, and are therefore not 'normal'.

[elektrified]

I can't think of one Thai that I know that uses the free Thai health care system; either middle class or wealthy friends of mine. Most of them go to Ram, Sripat or McCormick either through private insurance, employment insurance or cash out of pocket. The government hospitals like Ruam Phaet and Nakornping offer less than adequate services for the average Thai. I don't know who your circle of friends is but I think you may be incorrect.

You have given your own answer, you don't know any normal Thais.

67% of the Thai population are poor rural farmers, by definition these must be 'normal Thais' as they account for the majority of the population.

The middle class and wealthy Thais account for less than 15% of the total population, and are therefore not 'normal'.

The demographics in Thailand have changed considerably over the last 5 years. I suspect that the data you furnished may be out-dated. 15% of the population being "middle-class and wealthy"? No way. It is much higher than that. Just look around you in Chiang Mai. Look in Bangkok - I was there the other day and the amount of young people with expensive clothing, watches, cars, Apple gadgets, etc. is staggering. How many 20ish kids do you see driving brand new cars, many of them BMW's here in C.M.? Things have really changed since I first came here in 1989. Are most of your Thai friends rural farmers? I think not (not that there is anything wrong with them) but that doesn't fit with your data. I'm not trying to pick an argument with you but I don't think you are seeing/portraying and accurate picture of the current situation and you seem opposed to being insured. That is fine if you have 250-500,000 Baht in an account ready to cover your medical expenses if you are hospitalized, get into an accident or whatever.

Retirees (or anyone for that matter) should be insured in Thailand. If not, and you don't have the cash, then you may end up in some place like Ruam Phaed or Nakornping needing surgery. Ever been to Ruam Phaed Hospital? Scary place... Also you must have the money readily at hand when you are hospitalized. After my friend who I mentioned above arrived at the hospital by ambulance, they debited his credit card for 75,000 Baht before the cardiologist would even see him.

[nivram4491]

I can't think of one Thai that I know that uses the free Thai health care system; either middle class or wealthy friends of mine. Most of them go to Ram, Sripat or McCormick either through private insurance, employment insurance or cash out of pocket. The government hospitals like Ruam Phaet and Nakornping offer less than adequate services for the average Thai. I don't know who your circle of friends is but I think you may be incorrect.

You have given your own answer, you don't know any normal Thais.

67% of the Thai population are poor rural farmers, by definition these must be 'normal Thais' as they account for the majority of the population.

The middle class and wealthy Thais account for less than 15% of the total population, and are therefore not 'normal'.

The demographics in Thailand have changed considerably over the last 5 years. I suspect that the data you furnished may be out-dated. 15% of the population being "middle-class and wealthy"? No way. It is much higher than that. Just look around you in Chiang Mai. Look in Bangkok - I was there the other day and the amount of young people with expensive clothing, watches, cars, Apple gadgets, etc. is staggering. How many 20ish kids do you see driving brand new cars, many of them BMW's here in C.M.? Things have really changed since I first came here in 1989. Are most of your Thai friends rural farmers? I think not (not that there is anything wrong with them) but that doesn't fit with your data. I'm not trying to pick an argument with you but I don't think you are seeing/portraying and accurate picture of the current situation and you seem opposed to being insured. That is fine if you have 250-500,000 Baht in an account ready to cover your medical expenses if you are hospitalized, get into an accident or whatever.

Retirees (or anyone for that matter) should be insured in Thailand. If not, and you don't have the cash, then you may end up in some place like Ruam Phaed or Nakornping needing surgery. Ever been to Ruam Phaed Hospital? Scary place... Also you must have the money readily at hand when you are hospitalized. After my friend who I mentioned above arrived at the hospital by ambulance, they debited his credit card for 75,000 Baht before the cardiologist would even see him.

For anyone over the age of 65 health insurance costs around 80,000 Baht a year in Thailand, usually paid up front. In my opinion, for someone over 65 still in good health, the cost of health insurance is too expensive.

I have an Australian credit card and the back up of being able to return to Australia to use their public health system. The money I don't spend on health insurance is earning 6.5% interest in Australia. My savings from not having been paying health insurance payments are such that if I am unlucky and have to pay up to 400,000 Baht for medical care I am still in front.

I also have a yellow book and until reading this thread was unaware that it could be used for free basic medical health care. In some hospitals the basic care would be adequate, in my opinion, in others not. A situation which requires some homework to find what the best options are if required.

[ludditeman]

The demographics in Thailand have changed considerably over the last 5 years. I suspect that the data you furnished may be out-dated. 15% of the population being "middle-class and wealthy"? No way. It is much higher than that. Just look around you in Chiang Mai. Look in Bangkok - I was there the other day and the amount of young people with expensive clothing, watches, cars, Apple gadgets, etc. is staggering.

CM and BK are the number 1 and 2 cities in Thailand, not rural, and a very small fraction of the Thai population live there.

They are not representative of the rest of the country.

It is amazing how many young girls have these gadgets, but there is always some rich old guy prepared to give them as gifts.

[elektrified]

The demographics in Thailand have changed considerably over the last 5 years. I suspect that the data you furnished may be out-dated. 15% of the population being "middle-class and wealthy"? No way. It is much higher than that. Just look around you in Chiang Mai. Look in Bangkok - I was there the other day and the amount of young people with expensive clothing, watches, cars, Apple gadgets, etc. is staggering.

CM and BK are the number 1 and 2 cities in Thailand, not rural, and a very small fraction of the Thai population live there.

They are not representative of the rest of the country.

It is amazing how many young girls have these gadgets, but there is always some rich old guy prepared to give them as gifts.

True, perhaps. I don't know. I ain't one of them prepared to give any gifts. But a lot of them have good paying jobs that afford them the luxury of buying these items.

[elektrified]

I can't think of one Thai that I know that uses the free Thai health care system; either middle class or wealthy friends of mine. Most of them go to Ram, Sripat or McCormick either through private insurance, employment insurance or cash out of pocket. The government hospitals like Ruam Phaet and Nakornping offer less than adequate services for the average Thai. I don't know who your circle of friends is but I think you may be incorrect.

You have given your own answer, you don't know any normal Thais.

67% of the Thai population are poor rural farmers, by definition these must be 'normal Thais' as they account for the majority of the population.

The middle class and wealthy Thais account for less than 15% of the total population, and are therefore not 'normal'.

The demographics in Thailand have changed considerably over the last 5 years. I suspect that the data you furnished may be out-dated. 15% of the population being "middle-class and wealthy"? No way. It is much higher than that. Just look around you in Chiang Mai. Look in Bangkok - I was there the other day and the amount of young people with expensive clothing, watches, cars, Apple gadgets, etc. is staggering. How many 20ish kids do you see driving brand new cars, many of them BMW's here in C.M.? Things have really changed since I first came here in 1989. Are most of your Thai friends rural farmers? I think not (not that there is anything wrong with them) but that doesn't fit with your data. I'm not trying to pick an argument with you but I don't think you are seeing/portraying and accurate picture of the current situation and you seem opposed to being insured. That is fine if you have 250-500,000 Baht in an account ready to cover your medical expenses if you are hospitalized, get into an accident or whatever.

Retirees (or anyone for that matter) should be insured in Thailand. If not, and you don't have the cash, then you may end up in some place like Ruam Phaed or Nakornping needing surgery. Ever been to Ruam Phaed Hospital? Scary place... Also you must have the money readily at hand when you are hospitalized. After my friend who I mentioned above arrived at the hospital by ambulance, they debited his credit card for 75,000 Baht before the cardiologist would even see him.

For anyone over the age of 65 health insurance costs around 80,000 Baht a year in Thailand, usually paid up front. In my opinion, for someone over 65 still in good health, the cost of health insurance is too expensive.

I have an Australian credit card and the back up of being able to return to Australia to use their public health system. The money I don't spend on health insurance is earning 6.5% interest in Australia. My savings from not having been paying health insurance payments are such that if I am unlucky and have to pay up to 400,000 Baht for medical care I am still in front.

I also have a yellow book and until reading this thread was unaware that it could be used for free basic medical health care. In some hospitals the basic care would be adequate, in my opinion, in others not. A situation which requires some homework to find what the best options are if required.

Sounds like you have a good plan and a back up plan in order.

[HappyInCM]

The demographics in Thailand have changed considerably over the last 5 years. I suspect that the data you furnished may be out-dated. 15% of the population being "middle-class and wealthy"? No way. It is much higher than that. Just look around you in Chiang Mai. Look in Bangkok - I was there the other day and the amount of young people with expensive clothing, watches, cars, Apple gadgets, etc. is staggering.

CM and BK are the number 1 and 2 cities in Thailand, not rural, and a very small fraction of the Thai population live there.

They are not representative of the rest of the country.

It is amazing how many young girls have these gadgets, but there is always some rich old guy prepared to give them as gifts.

That may be so but your original point was that the Thai health care system appears to be very good and all the thais you know are using it. But, according to Elektrified, the more affluent Thais that he knows all pay for (presumably) better care. There must be a reason for that, no?

As a European (Canadian?) you may have the option of flying home to get medical care for free. BUT, there may be times when you cannot do this because you need emergency medical care/an operation.

BTW - Americans may not even have the option to fly home for free medical care at all - so it may not be that crazy to get coverage. Esp if the free/cheap medical care doesn't compare to what one is used to, no?

Edited October 7, 2011 by eljefe2

[uptheos]

So, OP......2,500 hits, 73 replies (one from you!)....................are you now enlightened?

Have you drawn a conclusion from all the oneupmanship/onedownmaship replies?

How much do you now think you need?

Think of a number and keep it to yourself - it's irrelevant to anyone else but you.

Edited October 7, 2011 by uptheos

[sailaway2000]

Frankly I find it quite easy to live on well less than 1000USD a month. I am single, drink a bit and play around just a little. I have learned more and appreciate where I am and the people who surround me far, far more than if I had tons of money and lived in some isolated moo ban somewhere. Of, course, if you have a wife and children, the costs will escalate accordingly.

You really can do it and the less expensively you find you can live here, the more you appreciate the Thai life style and the Thai people themselves.

Of course, if you really need to eat western all the time and live ten times beyond the means of the average Thai you can, easily.

Just in My Humble Opinion, of course.

Regards,

[dingdongrb]

My costs are around 150,000 per month. Of course that includes my pool, my truck and 3 well paid staff, as well as daily food from MOW4u. I don't drink, never go out to eat, and my rent is only 5,000 per month. I do like to buy cameras and phones also... My utilities are expensive with water at 4,000 per month, and electricity at over 5,000 per month...

Am I confused or do you own a pool at a rental home?

Yes, I do. I say it was the best decision I have ever made. I lost 150 kilos and extended my life by at least 10 years.

Of course, it was a little bit risky at first, but that was 9 years ago. And my rent is still 5,000 baht

So what's your plans for the pool if you ever decide to move?

...and congrats on losing the 150 kilos.... If I did that I would disappear..........twice!

[LJW]

This is the first time in my life I have lived anywhere for more than one year. I have an intention to die in this house

Near the end of next year.

Edited October 8, 2011 by LJW

[justmaybe]

I conducted a highly scientific study by separately asking the three farang I know in CM their thoughts on a reasonable retirement budget. Each has a car and comfortable home (rented or purchased) and all mentioned the 40,000-50,000 baht/month range as quite liveable. Two of the three brought up the subject of medical care; neither had local insurance and recommended something along the lines of Nancy's contingency fund, either by credit card or bank account. They enjoy free health care in their respective countries but didn't want to see returning home as anything save for a last resort. One recommended keeping an inexpensive traveler's insurance plan with medical removal just in case.

[letitbe]

My costs are around 150,000 per month. Of course that includes my pool, my truck and 3 well paid staff, as well as daily food from MOW4u. I don't drink, never go out to eat, and my rent is only 5,000 per month. I do like to buy cameras and phones also... My utilities are expensive with water at 4,000 per month, and electricity at over 5,000 per month...

Firstly, I don't disbelieve a word you say,my question is, how expensive is your water?Here in Maesa Noi I pay 4Baht /1000ltr. Last month 48Baht which will rise to about 150/170Baht in the upcoming dry time to maintain the garden.

If I've done my numbers correctly at my rate your using 1,000,000ltrs/mth. or 30,000ltrs/day.If me I'd be headed out to the meter,turn it off and check that your meter is not redlining when it should be doing nothing.Just a tip.

Well, I have a large garden, 3 waterfalls, and 2 fish ponds, as well as a pool. This month it was 4,500 baht. I can afford it, so no worrys about me.

you fill pool with government water w have same except pool and I know lots of people who have pools no one spends 4,000 baht a month on water unless their totally stupid or lying I suppose you empty the pool every week and waterfalls dont use a pump to recirculate water your talking nonsense

[letitbe]

...there will be either medical insurance ( a total waste of money IMHO)...

Brilliant financial advice! Glad you are not my financial adviser. Got a few hundred thousand Baht socked away if you need cardiovascular or liver surgery since you "smoke and drink a lot of beer" I would imagine???

Insurance (health, accident, auto, motorcycle, etc.) should be on the top of the list for expats moving here.

anyone here who does not have at least 1 million baht tucked away for medical emergencies is IMO either stupid or just poor. You will find that yes they will pay 1500 baht a day for stay in hospital even pay for surgery and rest if your over 60and check your medical costs over last 5 years your insurance premiums will have been well over costs of insuring yourself and dont give me any of that if you do it before your 60 you can still get cover up to 75 you will find if you have long term expensive treatment needed they will start raising premiums hugely each year. IMO

[muchogra]

B4000 a month water bill may not be unreasonable. In Bangkok, our water bill is around B300 and there are only two of us plus 7 small and old dogs. We don't have a pool or waterfalls or a large garden. His bill is only about 10 times more than ours. I recall one poster living in Pattaya who has claimed his water bill in that range also. I have no qualm about it if they so claim!

[californiabeachboy]

One of the problems with trying to budget is that I believe many of us overestimate our ability to live the "Thai Way". I don't live in Thailand, but I have come over there several times for about a month each time to explore what it would be like to live there. Two things I have learned:

1. I found that the humidity there kills me. I would be running the air conditioner all year long in Bangkok, and in Chiang Mai 8 months a year for most of the day. I live near the beach in the US and because I never need the air conditioner nor the heater my electricity bill runs about 20 USD per month (for cooking and lights), and I figured it would at least triple that amount in Thailand, and maybe more.

2. I overestimated my ability to eat Thai food all the time. I love Thai food, but I also love Italian food, Mexican food, and even American food. After about 10 days in Thailand I would kill for a baked potato. On my last visit I checked the prices of some of the Western food in the grocery markets and found that most of it is more expensive there than here at home.

After crunching the numbers, I concluded that for me Thailand would be no cheaper. There are many reasons to live in Thailand, but unless you can live like a local, I don't think cost is one of them.

[OriginalPoster]

One of the problems with trying to budget is that I believe many of us overestimate our ability to live the "Thai Way". I don't live in Thailand, but I have come over there several times for about a month each time to explore what it would be like to live there. Two things I have learned:

1. I found that the humidity there kills me. I would be running the air conditioner all year long in Bangkok, and in Chiang Mai 8 months a year for most of the day. I live near the beach in the US and because I never need the air conditioner nor the heater my electricity bill runs about 20 USD per month (for cooking and lights), and I figured it would at least triple that amount in Thailand, and maybe more.

2. I overestimated my ability to eat Thai food all the time. I love Thai food, but I also love Italian food, Mexican food, and even American food. After about 10 days in Thailand I would kill for a baked potato. On my last visit I checked the prices of some of the Western food in the grocery markets and found that most of it is more expensive there than here at home.

After crunching the numbers, I concluded that for me Thailand would be no cheaper. There are many reasons to live in Thailand, but unless you can live like a local, I don't think cost is one of them.

To live as cheaply as many seem to say, you not only need "to live like a local", you need to live like a local who earns less than $1000 per month. Maybe that accounts for the vast majority of locals, but that doesn't make it any more of an attractive lifestyle.It might be what some people want, but I didn't more to Thailand to live as a pauper.

Edited October 9, 2011 by OriginalPoster

[Ulysses G.]

I find that if I eat some Thai food and some foreign food and choose restaurants carefully, I can eat out every meal and live on far less than than in America - even if I was doing my own cooking.

However, I am single, and am perfectly comfortable in a clean, medium-sized room with air-con, a computer and cable TV, instead of living in a big house with an expensive car and eating lots of imported food.

If one is willing to compromise on adapting to living in a different country, the savings here can be enormous, but it depends on what makes one happy and I guess that I have fairly simple needs as I love living here and do not spend a lot of money.

Edited October 9, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[LJW]

My costs are around 150,000 per month. Of course that includes my pool, my truck and 3 well paid staff, as well as daily food from MOW4u. I don't drink, never go out to eat, and my rent is only 5,000 per month. I do like to buy cameras and phones also... My utilities are expensive with water at 4,000 per month, and electricity at over 5,000 per month...

Firstly, I don't disbelieve a word you say,my question is, how expensive is your water?Here in Maesa Noi I pay 4Baht /1000ltr. Last month 48Baht which will rise to about 150/170Baht in the upcoming dry time to maintain the garden.

If I've done my numbers correctly at my rate your using 1,000,000ltrs/mth. or 30,000ltrs/day.If me I'd be headed out to the meter,turn it off and check that your meter is not redlining when it should be doing nothing.Just a tip.

Well, I have a large garden, 3 waterfalls, and 2 fish ponds, as well as a pool. This month it was 4,500 baht. I can afford it, so no worrys about me.

you fill pool with government water w have same except pool and I know lots of people who have pools no one spends 4,000 baht a month on water unless their totally stupid or lying I suppose you empty the pool every week and waterfalls dont use a pump to recirculate water your talking nonsense

Listen guy, you don't know me or anything about me except my water bill. Don't call me stupid or say I'm lying, because you don't understand why my water bill is 4,000 baht.

[OriginalPoster]

I find that if I eat some Thai food and some foreign food and choose restaurants carefully, I can eat out every meal and live on far less than than in America - even if I was doing my own cooking.

However, I am single, and am perfectly comfortable in a clean, medium-sized room with air-con, a computer and cable TV, instead of living in a big house with an expensive car and eating lots of imported food.

If one is willing to compromise on adapting to living in a different country, the savings here can be enormous, but it depends on what makes one happy and I guess that I have fairly simple needs as I love living here and do not spend a lot of money.

Absolutely, but is your savings coming more from downgrading your lifestyle (from having house, car.etc to a small apartment & a bicycle) or from being in a different country? One can also live cheaply by moving to Arkansas and living in a shack.

[uptheos]

you fill pool with government water w have same except pool and I know lots of people who have pools no one spends 4,000 baht a month on water unless their totally stupid or lying I suppose you empty the pool every week and waterfalls dont use a pump to recirculate water your talking nonsense

Listen guy, you don't know me or anything about me except my water bill. Don't call me stupid or say I'm lying, because you don't understand why my water bill is 4,000 baht.

These posts are a waste of time - the OP puts up the topic and then goes on holiday - probably no interest at all in anyone's costs and has already figured out how much he has to live on.

I know some people spend a vast amount and some very little, that's the way it is and everyone's circumstances, needs and wants are different.......I can't really see the point of advertising it to the TV world though.

Edited October 9, 2011 by uptheos

[hml367]

you fill pool with government water w have same except pool and I know lots of people who have pools no one spends 4,000 baht a month on water unless their totally stupid or lying I suppose you empty the pool every week and waterfalls dont use a pump to recirculate water your talking nonsense

Listen guy, you don't know me or anything about me except my water bill. Don't call me stupid or say I'm lying, because you don't understand why my water bill is 4,000 baht.

These posts are a waste of time - the OP puts up the topic and then goes on holiday - probably no interest at all in anyone's costs and has already figured out how much he has to live on.

I know some people spend a vast amount and some very little, that's the way it is and everyone's circumstances, needs and wants are different.......I can't really see the sense of advertising it to the TV world.

Maybe to feed one's own ego?

MSPain

[uptheos]

Maybe to feed one's own ego?

MSPain

Probably a valid statement.

It really doesn't matter to anyone else, how much or how little a person lives on.