Retirees? What'S Your Thai Living Budget?

[philliphn]

I don't see how some of the people that I meet around here, retirees or other, call staying in a cheap one room apartment, living out of a suitcase, 'living' or 'retirement'. It's more like existing. I didn't live that way when I was in college. I certainly would not want to live that way when and if I ever retire - which I doubt I would ever do any way. I think it looks silly (and somewhat shameful) for a guy in his mid-late 60's-80's to live like a Thai college student or a pauper. I would not criticize people who choose to get around on a 'scooter' as the other poster wrote. That is their choice. But the ones that drive without helmets and/or no insurance are fools.

Lets take a look at some of your assumptions.

For instance myself. I have a million USD in assets, and a pension. I am 56 years old. I have no dependents. Likely I will triple this sum due to fortunate, but sad circumstances, in the not too distant future. I hope this eventuality will occur later rather than sooner. I live in the USA. I have a large 3 story home, on 5 acres. Which I wish I could sell. Then I could live in Thailand, and Florida on the beach. I never go upstairs in my house. I live in my Master bedroom, and kitchen. The size of the area that I live in is about the size of a medium/large sized Studio condominium. I could easily be very happy, and comfortable living in a medium sized Studio Condominium. I live on my adequate, but not huge pension, which includes world wide Medical Coverage. I essentially live on my pension. I don't spend my assets. I am not very materialistic. I don't buy the most expensive car that I can afford. Though I drive a 2012 car. I don't get the biggest, or the best. On my next vacation to Thailand in Chaingmai, I will stay at Verachai Court Hotel. I can afford better. In Pattaya, I stay at Siam Sawasdee on Soi Bukuao. I wear a very cheap watch. I dress in Blue Jeans, and a nice shirt. I fly second class. I drink very very little alcohol. I do travel some. When people find out my situation. Which most don't. They comment. He does not look like a millionaire. I have a Masters degree, but never lived in a dorm. The point is even if you can afford it. You don't have to have the biggest, best, most expensive. To be happy.

You hear about cases like that occasionally in the States too, where some old guy living alone in a trailer park turns out to have $1M in assets or more when he dies. Not sure that I'd any more prefer to do that in Thailand than in the US.

Perhaps some of that 1M USD in assets is tied up in real estate. Not exactly liquid. We discovered our U.S. real estate wasn't worth nearly as much as we thought when we decided to liquidate and move here in 2008.

Only $200.000 is in Real Estate. That amount is in today's current valuation. I admit that selling it is holding up my plans. No I don't want to rent it.

I should have said One Million two hundred thousand in current assets, not just One Million. I was forgetting to include the value of my completely paid for home.

The point of my post was that you don't have to have the biggest, best, or most expensive to be happy.

[insertmembernamehere]

"I believe that part of the retirement visa requirement is that if you have a pension (plus money in a Thai bank), that monthly sum must be at least 60,000 baht. So if that is right, then someone must have made some study on the subject to come up with that as a reasonable amount."

Why on earth would you believe that?

I realize that Thai reasoning is often counter-intuitive or downright abstract, but this number was determined somehow. I suppose they could have had a fortune-telling chick peck the numbers out or just had someone pick a random number, but my guess it that someone or some people did in fact make some sort of effort to come up with what they thought was a reasonable number.

How do you think this number was determined?

[Ulysses G.]

How do you think this number was determined?

Picked from a hat - like most regulations in Thailand.

[dingdongrb]

"...But isnt that the case others are saying ?? I mean I always find it kind of comical, when I meet someone (usually in their first 3 years here) who is raving about how cheap life is, still living from a suitcase in a small apartment, often with no insurance, riding a scooter for transport, when hes comparing his costs of living to being in the west..."

I don't see how some of the people that I meet around here, retirees or other, call staying in a cheap one room apartment, living out of a suitcase, 'living' or 'retirement'. It's more like existing. I didn't live that way when I was in college. I certainly would not want to live that way when and if I ever retire - which I doubt I would ever do any way. I think it looks silly (and somewhat shameful) for a guy in his mid-late 60's-80's to live like a Thai college student or a pauper. I would not criticize people who choose to get around on a 'scooter' as the other poster wrote. That is their choice. But the ones that drive without helmets and/or no insurance are fools.

Lets take a look at some of your assumptions.

For instance myself. I have a million USD in assets, and a pension. I am 56 years old. I have no dependents. Likely I will triple this sum due to fortunate, but sad circumstances, in the not too distant future. I hope this eventuality will occur later rather than sooner. I live in the USA. I have a large 3 story home, on 5 acres. Which I wish I could sell. Then I could live in Thailand, and Florida on the beach. I never go upstairs in my house. I live in my Master bedroom, and kitchen. The size of the area that I live in is about the size of a medium/large sized Studio condominium. I could easily be very happy, and comfortable living in a medium sized Studio Condominium. I live on my adequate, but not huge pension, which includes world wide Medical Coverage. I essentially live on my pension. I don't spend my assets. I am not very materialistic. I don't buy the most expensive car that I can afford. Though I drive a 2012 car. I don't get the biggest, or the best. On my next vacation to Thailand in Chaingmai, I will stay at Verachai Court Hotel. I can afford better. In Pattaya, I stay at Siam Sawasdee on Soi Bukuao. I wear a very cheap watch. I dress in Blue Jeans, and a nice shirt. I fly second class. I drink very very little alcohol. I do travel some. When people find out my situation. Which most don't. They comment. He does not look like a millionaire. I have a Masters degree, but never lived in a dorm. The point is even if you can afford it. You don't have to have the biggest, best, most expensive. To be happy.

I am just surprised that someone still wears a watch these days....

[uptheos]

How do you think this number was determined?

Picked from a hat - like most regulations in Thailand.

Exactly. When the amounts were drastically increased, I doubt that was decided through scientific research.......more like "let's get more money from the buggers, they can take it or leave it".

[Naam]

Quote: "One chap never goes out and lives on chicken feet soup..."

Chicken feet soup is good. I made some last week. My recipe: boil peanuts (with the skin) till it's getting soft. Dump in all the chicken feet and add several good black mushroom. Boil till they are soft. Add salt and it's done. Dip chicken feet in soy sauce with chilli powder or paste to serve. Yummy or yukky?

you mean you did not add chicken entrails and some decaying fish?

[dave2]

re ... Picked from a hat

nahhh ... they rolled these and doubled it : )

dave2

[uptheos]

re ... Picked from a hat

nahhh ... they rolled these and doubled it : )

dave2

Aah, so it was scientific.

I wonder how much longer, before they scientifically make it a million baht?

Edited October 16, 2011 by uptheos

[WinnieTheKhwai]

And you can make some extra income, like the Farang dude who sells DVD down Loi Kroh from his motorcycle.

Not sure how business is going for him but he does have nice titles in proper boxes, and prices are very reasonable.

[uptheos]

And you can make some extra income, like the Farang dude who sells DVD down Loi Kroh from his motorcycle.

Not sure how business is going for him but he does have nice titles in proper boxes, and prices are very reasonable.

Where about's does he usually park - always happy to help out an entrepreneur. And before I get jumped on, if he sells quality goods at a reasonable price, I don't give two figs if he's got a work permit or not. I'm not the Police, Immigration of from the Ministry of Labour.....so good luck to him.

Edited October 16, 2011 by uptheos

[WinnieTheKhwai]

And you can make some extra income, like the Farang dude who sells DVD down Loi Kroh from his motorcycle.

Not sure how business is going for him but he does have nice titles in proper boxes, and prices are very reasonable.

Where about's does he usually park - always happy to help out an entrepreneur. And before I get jumped on, if he sells quality goods at a reasonable price, I don't give two figs if he's got a work permit or not. I'm not the Police, Immigration of from the Ministry of Labour.....so good luck to him.

Usually near-ish to the first 7-11 on Loi Kroh, on the left when coming from the moat. But he may move around to other areas.

[IanForbes]

The point of my post was that you don't have to have the biggest, best, or most expensive to be happy.

That pretty much says it all right there. Although not wealthy by your standards I have more than enough to live a comfortable life if I continue the way I am. I have a few expensive toys, like cameras and top end fishing tackle, but they are just tools to use for my hobbies. I like you comment about living in what would amount to a studio apartment. I feel the same way. I have a great big house in Canada, but really only use a tiny portion of it. When I'm in Thailand for 5 months I am quite happy in one moderate size room. I don't entertain other than for a few hours with young ladies so there is no need for a kitchen and dining room. I can eat out for as cheap as cooking for myself.

[muchogra]

The problem is that you don't really know when you're going to die. My financial planner did a plan with spreadsheets and multi-color graphs that ended once I reached aged 92. I asked what happens after that, should I live so long. He didn't have a good answer. He's too much of gentleman to voice the correct answer (you're scr...wed)

Oh, c'mon now, Nancy, some people may tell you life is not worth living for past 90's....oh, just kidding! My father, at age 92, came to Thailand to visit my MIL who was sick at age 84. He needed no wheelchair but he did carry a cane though.

Anyway, Nancy, I believe you are well-planned and highly organized; you would have no problem living past 92 on your way beating the record of the oldest reigning living person.

[muchogra]

Quote: "Perhaps some of that 1M USD in assets is tied up in real estate. Not exactly liquid..."

One would think gold and gemstones are liquid but they are not for me. They are locked in safety deposit boxes. My wife says it's got sentimental values.... But she's right though

[dave2]

re ... near-ish to the first 7-11 on Loi Kroh

theres only one 7 eleven in loi kroh road .... this one !

dave2

[muchogra]

Quote: "One chap never goes out and lives on chicken feet soup..."

Chicken feet soup is good. I made some last week. My recipe: boil peanuts (with the skin) till it's getting soft. Dump in all the chicken feet and add several good black mushroom. Boil till they are soft. Add salt and it's done. Dip chicken feet in soy sauce with chilli powder or paste to serve. Yummy or yukky?

you mean you did not add chicken entrails and some decaying fish?

I guess you are not much of a gastronomist on "cheap" food. Did you venture out of your 6-star hotel when in Macau? The last time I was in Macau my ah-sia Thai friend asked me to accompany him and his mei noi. The purpose? To stop him playing after a certain amount. We stayed only in Lisboa cos the gaming industry was still monopolized by Stanley Ho. No fancy hotels and casinos like nowadays run by the Vegas crowd. We flew first class free. Abalone and shark fin soups were free but we still had some chicken feet there. The second day we flew back. I stopped him playing after dropping 20 mil at baccarat in the VIP room.

On chicken entrails, here's another recipe. Dumb chicken liver and gizzard in boiling water. Cook for about 5 minutes and remove. Put them in the fridge after cooled down. Put them in the fridge. When serving, slice them around 3mm thick. Sauteed with light soy sauce, sesame oil and finely chopped green onion. They go down well with cognac or lao khao, the good quality one of course. Close your eyes and imagine the liver is foie gras In fact, the foie gras I had in France can't beat mine

[Naam]

On chicken entrails, here's another recipe. Dumb chicken liver and gizzard in boiling water. Cook for about 5 minutes and remove. Put them in the fridge after cooled down. Put them in the fridge. When serving, slice them around 3mm thick. Sauteed with light soy sauce, sesame oil and finely chopped green onion. They go down well with cognac or lao khao, the good quality one of course. Close your eyes and imagine the liver is foie gras In fact, the foie gras I had in France can't beat mine

another disappointing recipe without added decaying fish. you are obviously not a gourmet not even a few crispy fried roaches or wooly spiders to go with the Lao Khao?

[Naam]

View PostNancyL, on Yesterday, 00:53 , said:

The problem is that you don't really know when you're going to die. My financial planner did a plan with spreadsheets and multi-color graphs that ended once I reached aged 92. I asked what happens after that, should I live so long. He didn't have a good answer. He's too much of gentleman to voice the correct answer (you're scr...wed)

"financial planners" who advice their clients to draw from their capital to finance living expenses should be tarred and feathered!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

re ... near-ish to the first 7-11 on Loi Kroh

theres only one 7 eleven in loi kroh road .... this one !

dave2

That's the one.

And.. Good heavens!! I'm SHOCKED that there still exists a road with only a single 7-Eleven on it, shocked I tell you! I think we need to campaign 7-11 / CP about this unacceptable situation.

Edited October 16, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[NancyL]

View PostNancyL, on Yesterday, 00:53 , said:

The problem is that you don't really know when you're going to die. My financial planner did a plan with spreadsheets and multi-color graphs that ended once I reached aged 92. I asked what happens after that, should I live so long. He didn't have a good answer. He's too much of gentleman to voice the correct answer (you're scr...wed)

"financial planners" who advice their clients to draw from their capital to finance living expenses should be tarred and feathered!

I'd appreciate clarification of the warning that clients shouldn't draw from their capital. What's the point of saving all your working life to finance your retirement, especially when there are no children or other heirs to worry about? Someone would have to have pretty large capital reserves in order to live using the only the earnings of those reserves.

[IanForbes]

View PostNancyL, on Yesterday, 00:53 , said:

The problem is that you don't really know when you're going to die. My financial planner did a plan with spreadsheets and multi-color graphs that ended once I reached aged 92. I asked what happens after that, should I live so long. He didn't have a good answer. He's too much of gentleman to voice the correct answer (you're scr...wed)

"financial planners" who advice their clients to draw from their capital to finance living expenses should be tarred and feathered!

I'd appreciate clarification of the warning that clients shouldn't draw from their capital. What's the point of saving all your working life to finance your retirement, especially when there are no children or other heirs to worry about? Someone would have to have pretty large capital reserves in order to live using the only the earnings of those reserves.

Quit being so practical, NancyL. Just accept the concensus here that the sky is falling and we are all going to our doom.

[Naam]

I'd appreciate clarification of the warning that clients shouldn't draw from their capital. What's the point of saving all your working life to finance your retirement, especially when there are no children or other heirs to worry about? Someone would have to have pretty large capital reserves in order to live using the only the earnings of those reserves.

no matter how illogical my advice sounds and no matter how logical "the last shirt has no pockets" sounds the alpha and omega of every successful investor is "never touch the capital". besides various reasons concerning the unknown future and its imponderabilities one valid reason was already mentioned which is "after <insert age> you are skrued".

all financial forecasts are based on nothing but assumptions, such as average inflation rate, average yields, average cost of health care, average life span, average this and average that. should any or a combined bunch of "non average" situations arise these forecasts are worth.......

[Naam]

Someone would have to have pretty large capital reserves in order to live using the only the earnings of those reserves.

most of those who lived according to "never touch the capital" have pretty large capital reserves

p.s. i admit that my views are not fair as they do not necessarily apply to each retiree :jap: i also admit that there were years where i drew from the capital because the regular income did not fully cover the purchase of big ticket items, e.g. holiday home, house remodelling or a bunch of cars.

[amexpat]

I was tempted to draw from the capital when I put a bowling alley in my second home in Monaco but I just cut down on my helicopter usage instead.

[Raphaeleh]

I was tempted to draw from the capital when I put a bowling alley in my second home in Monaco but I just cut down on my helicopter usage instead.

555555, you must be kidding.......

[IanForbes]

I HAVE to draw from my investments by Canadian law. For years it was tax free, but now I have to remove a bit each year and pay taxes on that amount. Fortunately, my pension is adequate if I'm not too extravagant. And, because I'm not trying to impress anybody I have more than enough to make me happy. However, I understand where Naam is coming from. HIs investments ARE his pension. But, I don't see much sense in not spending money on a few luxuries if you can afford it. By the time they are close to 60 I think everybody should have some idea how much it costs them to live. It just depends on what their interests are. I buy expensive cameras and the best computer I can afford. Other people spend their money on fancy dining, booze and cigarettes. It's all about choices. I had a friend who always wondered how I could buy $3000 cameras and a new computer every 2 years. But, he smoked 2 packs of cigarettes each day and at least one bottle of rum every 3 or 4 days. He lived in a trailer and I live in a big house. He was happy and I am happy. It's all about priorities.

[Naam]

By the time they are close to 60 I think everybody should have some idea how much it costs them to live.

that is of course correct Ian and applies only to regular expenses. but whether at age 60 or 80 people have no idea what unforeseen circumstances may arise which makes any financial forecast -even a logical and reasonable one- look ridiculous.

ask a Farang retiree who doesn't have a top notch health insurance whether he/she can afford to pay for a liver, lung or heart transplant or the cost of dialysis three times a week.

[ludditeman]

By the time they are close to 60 I think everybody should have some idea how much it costs them to live.

that is of course correct Ian and applies only to regular expenses. but whether at age 60 or 80 people have no idea what unforeseen circumstances may arise which makes any financial forecast -even a logical and reasonable one- look ridiculous.

ask a Farang retiree who doesn't have a top notch health insurance whether he/she can afford to pay for a liver, lung or heart transplant or the cost of dialysis three times a week.

Why would any sensible person wish to continue living at that age with any of those complaints?

In the UK they wouldn't even consider treating a retired person for those conditions.

(I believe 40 is the cut off age for transplants in the UK, and you can't buy them, but feel free to correct me if you know better)

Edited October 19, 2011 by ludditeman

[OriginalPoster]

By the time they are close to 60 I think everybody should have some idea how much it costs them to live.

that is of course correct Ian and applies only to regular expenses. but whether at age 60 or 80 people have no idea what unforeseen circumstances may arise which makes any financial forecast -even a logical and reasonable one- look ridiculous.

ask a Farang retiree who doesn't have a top notch health insurance whether he/she can afford to pay for a liver, lung or heart transplant or the cost of dialysis three times a week.

Why would any sensible person wish to continue living at that age with any of those complaints?

In the UK they wouldn't even consider treating a retired person for those conditions.

(I believe 40 is the cut off age for transplants in the UK, and you can't buy them, but feel free to correct me if you know better)

It's easy to talk big until you, or one of your loved ones, are affected by one of those conditions.

[ludditeman]

It's easy to talk big until you, or one of your loved ones, are affected by one of those conditions.

And as I stated, it doesn't matter how much you want them, because you are not allowed to buy organs.

I think the same applies to most of Europe.