Occupy As A Means To Financial Reform

[waza]

"Stop Coddling the Super-Rich..........

OUR leaders have asked for "shared sacrifice." But when they did the asking, they spared me. I checked with my mega-rich friends to learn what pain they were expecting. They, too, were left untouched.........Last year my federal tax bill the income tax I paid, as well as payroll taxes paid by me and on my behalf was $6,938,744. That sounds like a lot of money. But what I paid was only 17.4 percent of my taxable income and that's actually a lower percentage than was paid by any of the other 20 people in our office. Their tax burdens ranged from 33 percent to 41 percent and averaged 36 percent..........In 1992, the top 400 had aggregate taxable income of $16.9 billion and paid federal taxes of 29.2 percent on that sum. In 2008, the aggregate income of the highest 400 had soared to $90.9 billion a staggering $227.4 million on average but the rate paid had fallen to 21.5 percent. "

By WARREN E. BUFFETT

Published: August 14, 2011

My link

Edited October 10, 2011 by waza

[JimGant]

Yep, some of the rich are able to duck and jink around the tax code. That's why the Simpson-Bowles recommendation, to go after so-called "tax expenditures" in the tax code makes so much sense. Marginal tax rates would actually go down -- but the ability to use the tax code to avoid taxes will be minimized. So, taxes collected would go up -- and effective tax rates would approach marginal tax rates.

Simpson-Bowles has a lot to recommend it, including the need to attack entitlements, and the need to address at least $4 trillion in deficit reduction -- not the measly $1.5 trillion being looked-at by the supercommittee.

[Jingthing]

Bottom line, the Occupy movement is about Economic Justice.

It’s not that investment bankers should be held responsible for all the ills of the world. It’s that Wall Street is emblematic of an entire economic and political system that no longer seems to have the best interests of most Americans at heart.

I think the seed of progressive activism in the Occupy protests may grow into something very big indeed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/occupy-wall-street-a-timely-call-for-justice/2011/10/10/gIQASKleaL_story.html

[flying]

Some clips & pics from the organizers site

At some point they will need to grow some teeth.

TPTB can & will ignore anything less

[craigt3365]

IMHO, this article sums it up pretty well:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/opinion/panic-of-the-plutocrats.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=globasasa212

[Pakboong]

Bottom line, the Occupy movement is about Economic Justice.

It’s not that investment bankers should be held responsible for all the ills of the world. It’s that Wall Street is emblematic of an entire economic and political system that no longer seems to have the best interests of most Americans at heart.

I think the seed of progressive activism in the Occupy protests may grow into something very big indeed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/occupy-wall-street-a-timely-call-for-justice/2011/10/10/gIQASKleaL_story.html

These are their 4 published objectives:

* End the campaign finance and lobbying racket

* Break up the Fed & Too Big to Fail banks

* Enforce RICO laws against organized criminal class

* Order Ben Bernanke to step down’

[Jingthing]

Who is "they"?

Link please.

[craigt3365]

Another very interesting perspective:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/11/opinion/the-milquetoast-radicals.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=globasasa212

[snarky66]

Yeah I think if a lot of people read their 13 point mainfesto they would be turned off. "Forgive all debt" SURE. Living wage regardless of whether or not you have a job. Good luck with that.

But what really chaps my ass is lib idiots like Susan Sarandon who want to tear the place down while being a pitchman for Walt Disney. Or that other lib goofball Alec Baldwin. Hey moron what's in your wallet?

The hypocricy of the left knows no bounds.

It sure will be hard to get a job in the future after Obama messiah gets finished.

Edited October 11, 2011 by snarky66

[Pakboong]

Who is "they"?

Link please.

can be found at: Occupywallstreet.org but the material is lengthy and I speed read it yesterday. Put that piece in my notes but going through the individual topics on this site is very time consuming.

http://ampedstatus.org/a-report-from-the-frontlines-the-long-road-to-occupywallstreet-and-the-origins-of-the-99-movement/ This site includes the same information and is just a few pages down.

Edited October 12, 2011 by Pakboong

[snarky66]

Here is what Van Jones & Move On want:

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

Demand four: Free college education.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.

Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.

Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.

Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.

Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books." World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the "Books." And I don't mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.

Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.

Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.

These demands will create so many jobs it will be completely impossible to fill them without an open borders policy

Hey genius. Why woukl you need unions in a world where every human soul gets a living wage from the government? Well the idiots clearly haven't thought this one out.

Let me add #14 - free healthcare for all, especially illegal aliens. #15 no national borders. Humans are free to live wherever they want. I'm heading for Switzerland. Let's abolish taxes too while we're at it. OK Alec? OK Michael Blobster?

Edited October 11, 2011 by snarky66

[Pakboong]

Bottom line, the Occupy movement is about Economic Justice.

It’s not that investment bankers should be held responsible for all the ills of the world. It’s that Wall Street is emblematic of an entire economic and political system that no longer seems to have the best interests of most Americans at heart.

I think the seed of progressive activism in the Occupy protests may grow into something very big indeed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/occupy-wall-street-a-timely-call-for-justice/2011/10/10/gIQASKleaL_story.html

There will always be rich and poor but when the rich play in a big poker game where they get to keep their wins and the losers get their money back; which is taken from those not even able to play in the game is pretty hard to take.

It is the fixed game that really makes us mad.

[snarky66]

Heard a good one today. The protestors are known as the "flea party" LOL.

[gregb]

Here is what Van Jones & Move On want:

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

Demand four: Free college education.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.

Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.

Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.

Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.

Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books." World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the "Books." And I don't mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.

Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.

Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.

These demands will create so many jobs it will be completely impossible to fill them without an open borders policy

Hey genius. Why woukl you need unions in a world where every human soul gets a living wage from the government? Well the idiots clearly haven't thought this one out.

Let me add #14 - free healthcare for all, especially illegal aliens. #15 no national borders. Humans are free to live wherever they want. I'm heading for Switzerland. Let's abolish taxes too while we're at it. OK Alec? OK Michael Blobster?

There are some very good ideas in here, some that show they need to go back to university and get an education in reality, and some that are just off the wall horrible. But the real point of this and other manifestos is that the protesters want radical change. People who are doing well in the existing system want to keep it and just amend it slightly. The protesters are going to win eventually, because the system today is broken and can not be repaired.

There will be a revolution because of this in the near to medium term. When something is broken it has to change. But to what? I suspect we will try a debt forgiveness, socialist nanny state first because that is what will make the masses happy...for a time. But that will fail eventually because that kind of lifestyle is no longer affordable, and anyone with a small mass of neurons knows this. But sometimes it is easier to just buy something for children just to shut them up even when you know it can only end in disaster.

What else is waiting beyond this first attempt? Wars? Fascism? Probably both and more. Eventually I expect to see a breakup of the US into multiple countries as the collapse accelerates and Washington is finally recognized as the problem rather than the solution. Those smaller countries I expect will finally start the process of rebuilding from scratch, with protectionist policies, closed borders and tight monetary controls. Basically, they will be third world countries with third world poverty.

This is what I see these protests representing. The start of that very necessary reform. It is going to take decades and every solution short of the unpleasant one that is required is going to be tried first. But eventually people will realize that the US is now a failed empire, and it is time to take their place among other failed empires. The people will be poor for a while and have to work hard for whatever they want. Starting over completely and rebuilding something smaller and more manageable.

You can call the protesters spoiled children if you want, but everyone in the US is a spoiled child these days. This is a good sign that we are finally nearing the end of the plague on the world that is called modern day capitalism. It can not last much longer, and it is time that everyone started thinking of which radical changes they would like to see, because the status quo is ending.

[hyperdimension]

END THE FED !!! end fractional reserve banking

They are exactly what Bill Still suggests - government should print its own money (instead of allowing a private banking cartel to print the country's money and then borrow it and being obliged to pay them interest (and where can the money to pay the interest come from?)), and banks should only lend out no more than what they have:

Edited October 14, 2011 by hyperdimension

[flying]

They are exactly what Bill Still suggests - government should print its own money (instead of allowing a private banking cartel to print the country's money and then borrow it and being obliged to pay them interest (and where can the money to pay the interest come from?)), and banks should only lend out no more than what they have:

Of course that is correct & is also what the US constitution basically reads.

Also of course they (government)should live within their means like everyone else.

Yet they like to spend much more than they have to support their overblown size & presence.

As for the interest paid to the FED for the right to use their paper...

No greater scheme has ever been perpetrated on the people.

That banks are allowed to charge interest on money through fractional reserve banking that does not exists is insult added to injury

Edited October 14, 2011 by flying

[hyperdimension]

As for the interest paid to the FED for the right to use their paper...

No greater scheme has ever been perpetrated on the people.

For clairty I'd add "ponzi" to form the phrase "No greater ponzi scheme". Madoff, the former NASDAQ chariman, made the news headlines with his ponzi scheme, but what the Federal Reserve and the banks have been doing for almost 100 years is many magnitudes larger. It is so large, yet legalized and entrenched in everyday society, that there are still many people who find it difficult to accept that it actually is a ponzi scheme and that they are a victim of it. How can creating money literally out of nothing, lending it out and then charging interest on top of it, not be a ponzi scheme? P cannot equal P + I if I > 0, where P = principal and I = interest. That interest cannot come from anywhere except from more borrowing, so the result is perpetual debt. Debtors effectively become slaves to creditors, and slavery may be the long-term goal of the oligarchy in the bigger scheme of things.

In history, goldsmiths were prosecuted for issuing more gold certificates than gold that they actualy kept in stock to safekeep for clients (as explained in Money As Debt). Now the Federal Reserve and the banks do similarly - loan out far more money than they actually have - but now the ponzi is legalized.

Edited October 15, 2011 by hyperdimension

[hyperdimension]

To be accurate, most profits of the Federal Reserve goes back to the Treasury of the government. The key word is "most", which indicates that the Federal Reserve takes a slice of profit for themselves.

Before handing over profit to the Treasury, deductions are made which include a dividend that is 6% of the member banks' paid-in capital. It is basically legalized short-changing, and a transfer of money from tax payers to private banks like J.P. Morgan, Goldman Sachs, Chase Manhattan.

The Federal Reserve System Annual Report 2010 shows that it made a profit of 82B USD and transferred 79B USD to the Treasury. Total dividend amount was 1.58B USD, which is the largest ever in its history (see page 315), and which is pure profit straight to the private banks, and almost 1B was kept as surplus capital within the Federal Reserve.

The total amount of dividends paid to private banks since 1914 is 14B USD, and the total surplus capital accumulated since 1914 is 32.3B USD. In terms of capitalization, the Federal Reserve is approximately as large as Goldman Sachs Group. The total capital of the Federal Reserve as of 2011-02-23 is 53B USD, which is made up of member banks' paid-in capital (26.5B) and accumulated surplus capital (25.6B).

Clearly, the Federal Reserve has been a highly successful venture for its owners (the private banks), but the bigger-picture danger has been the private banks control and influence over the monetary system and thus over government and ordinary people. There is a blatant conflict of interest when the people behind the Federal Reserve are also heavyweights of the corporate and banking world, such as Jamie Dimon who is curerntly a Class A Director of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and is also the Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer of JPMorgan Chase.

Edited October 15, 2011 by hyperdimension

[midas]

"To Serve and Protect"

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/10/police-punch-woman-protester-in-the-face.html

Edited October 15, 2011 by midas

[midas]

I know the Daily Mail isn't anywhere near the same league as Washington post

but at least it's not tinfoil hat material....is it?

Violence erupts as police clash with protesters after they force Bloomberg to back down over 'eviction'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2049137/Occupy-Wall-Street-Violence-erupts-police-clash-protesters.html#ixzz1alvQWbr0

Edited October 15, 2011 by midas

[midas]

War: The Quickest Way to Kill a Protest Movement

" military-Keynesian establishment might try and kill every bird with one stone — a new regional war in Eurasia, probably involving Syria, Iran and Israel. Let’s look at what that might accomplish:

1. Create a new post-9/11-style hard-to-question patriotism — “There’s a war on — we all need to rally together around the flag — the complainers and protestors must hate America”

2. Put America back to work — in weapons factories, and on the front lines.

3. Give the economy a large Keynesian injection — through war spending.

4. Take out Iran, a powerful enemy of America — and send a threatening message to other uppity Eurasian autocracies like Russia and China.

5. Curtail civil liberties & censor the internet ( there you go that old conspiracy theory again ) — “There’s a war on — we all need to rally together around the flag — and those who don’t must be working to undermine America”

http://azizonomics.com/2011/10/14/war-the-quickest-way-to-kill-a-protest-movement/

Edited October 15, 2011 by midas

[midas]

FOOTAGE. Woman arrested at Citibank 555 Laguardia (around West 3rd/Bleeker). She’s wearing a business suit, clearly not protesting, just there to close her account with the bank as part of a group action. NYPD surround her, scare the shit out of her, and arrest her. For closing her bank account.

http://enjen.tumblr.com/post/11491778445/footage-woman-arrested-at-citibank-555-laguardia

Occupy Wall Street Run on Citibank Ends in Arrests [VIDEO]

http://www.observer.com/2011/10/occupy-wall-street-run-on-citibank-ends-in-arrests/

[craigt3365]

I know the Daily Mail isn't anywhere near the same league as Washington post

but at least it's not tinfoil hat material....is it?

Violence erupts as police clash with protesters after they force Bloomberg to back down over 'eviction'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2049137/Occupy-Wall-Street-Violence-erupts-police-clash-protesters.html#ixzz1alvQWbr0

A post from this website...2 sides to every story:

i live 3 blocks from this mess. i support change. however, those pictures and captions are not all true. i understand the media's need to sensationalize a story for more hits/views/ratings, as is the way of the news industry. understand that these people are only causing havoc and not making an revolutionary moves in any positive direction. some shots are posed (the man under the moped), and when people do get arrested, they are trained by organizers to express facial expressions that would suggest that they are under great strain and unfair treatment. they play into the media. this is not to say that a cop will bend the rules too, physically and so on. but this is the same as protesters are doing with placating to the media's way of presenting their side of the story.

- kpr, New York City, New York, 15/10/2011 16:53

Not much different from the G20 riots. Great ideas, poor implementation.

[midas]

Ah yes, China. That bastion of freedom and truth. Right up there with Russia.

Maybe they will start saying that about the New York Times as well if they omit salient details

Curious Omissions from a New York Times Story on a Foreclosure Auction Protest

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/10/curious-omissions-from-a-new-york-times-story-on-a-foreclosure-auction-protest.html

[cloudhopper]

Another good post from NC

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/10/24-people-arrested-for-trying-to-close-accounts-at-citibank.html

[midas]

Another good post from NC

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/10/24-people-arrested-for-trying-to-close-accounts-at-citibank.html

yes indeed !

" One of the things the powers that be seem to be underestimating is how they cannot present a cherry-picked version of what happened with so many people able to take videos. As we’ve said earlier, the same way that graphic TV coverage of the war in Vietnam was crucial in turning public sentiment against the war, so to are heavy-handed police actions against non-threatening protestors going to undermine the credibility of the officialdom. "

[midas]

Another good post from NC

http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/10/24-people-arrested-for-trying-to-close-accounts-at-citibank.html

yes indeed !

" One of the things the powers that be seem to be underestimating is how they cannot present a cherry-picked version of what happened with so many people able to take videos. As we’ve said earlier, the same way that graphic TV coverage of the war in Vietnam was crucial in turning public sentiment against the war, so to are heavy-handed police actions against non-threatening protestors going to undermine the credibility of the officialdom. "

Case in point. New York police counter terrorism against the protesters?

funny I thought it was the Wall Street banksters that were the financial terrorists?

[Jingthing]

A comparison of the left wing Occupy movement vs. the right wing tea party:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1687281/

The Tea Party is a revolt of the haves; Occupy Wall Street a revolt of the have-nots. Yet there are points of commonality between them. Both are angry about what they see as economic unfairness—the Tea Party over deviations from free-market principle, the Occupiers over excessive adherence to it. Both are hostile toward society’s elite, though they define that elite differently. Both are frustrated with the American political system.

[midas]

A comparison of the left wing Occupy movement vs. the right wing tea party:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1687281/

The Tea Party is a revolt of the haves; Occupy Wall Street a revolt of the have-nots. Yet there are points of commonality between them. Both are angry about what they see as economic unfairness—the Tea Party over deviations from free-market principle, the Occupiers over excessive adherence to it. Both are hostile toward society’s elite, though they define that elite differently. Both are frustrated with the American political system.

so what is the solution?

[midas]

Read the actual article folk which was blatantly misrepresented. No consensus at all to end the fed, not in the poll, not from the people, and certainly not from this new progressive political movement.

Of course there is a passionate minority advocating whacked out destructive ideas like ending the fed and going back to the gold standard, but don't for a minute fall for the lie that these absurd ideas are at the core of the Occupy Wallstreet/99 movement.

Economists: End Or Drastically Downsize the Fed

http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/economists-end-or-drastically-downsize-fed

Edited October 17, 2011 by midas