Aggressiveness Towards Farangs Lately

[parallaxtech]

I have noticed much more aggressiveness towards farangs lately by Thai men shouting things and waving their arms menacingly to the point that I ignore all of them. Tonight was a case in point. I went to one of those small open air markets looking for beach shoes. A nice young girl of about 16 was helping me. I asked her in Thai whether she went to school or not. Suddenly a man, presumably her brother or father, came up to me with a long pole and pushed it against my throat. I thought it was a joke so I started laughing. I was holding a pair of shoes and told him I wanted to buy them. He grabbed the shoes and told me to get out. My question is should I let it go or get the Tourist Police to file assault charges?

Edited October 6, 2011 by parallaxtech

[MAJIC]

As you were not injured,I can't see what good it would do,reporting it to the police,other than antagonise more.

Lets face it , Farang popularity has been on the decline for at least the last ten years, IMO.

Edited October 6, 2011 by MAJIC

[snuggzzz]

A lot depends on your individual circumstances, also, as to how well you are known in the local Thai community where you live. Did this happen in a local market or a major Town ??

[parallaxtech]

I am well-known having lived in Chaweng for seven years plus the market is within a km of my house so yes they could find me in minutes. I will take MAJIC's advice and forget about it. To me it's amazing that I have to avoid most Thai males these days. I have no problem with Thai females as they don't seem to have changed as much.

[itishothere]

Having never experienced this kind of aggression, or indeed witnessed it, I can only assume that tonight you came across a nutter. Probably high on something, who would have no idea in the morning what you were talking about if the police got involved. They are not unique to Thailand I should add. If you have done nothing wrong in the past, nor been disrespectful, nor been aggressive yourself, and was in the process of spending money in the shop, then why on earth would any sane person have a go at you? A bit of a nut-case if you ask me.

[PoorSucker]

Don't start discussions with school age girls.

You probably get the same reaction in your home country.

[RickThai]

I was living in Thailand during the mid-70s. I was in the US Army at the time. Once it was announced that the US military (Army and Air Force) was shutting down all of its bases and pulling out of Thailand, crimes against falongs went way up.

Simple acts like waiting in the morning for a baht bus to take you to work, could get you assualted and robbed. This was unthinkable just a few months earlier.

I had a Taxi driver try to get me to go somewhere and fight him, because I smiled and said no, when he quoted a ridiculous fare to me.

Maybe things are getting financially tighter for the Thais living in the tourist spots. With less tourists (and perhaps a large percentage of the tourists being cheaper (Asian, East European, etc), maybe the Thais are starting to get desperate.

Were you haggling over the price? Some Thais get really upset if they think you are "cheating" them out of the ridicuously high price that more ignorant tourist falongs would pay.

From their perspective, it is just a game to you, but they really need the extra 10 or 20 baht. I, too, feel bad sometimes, when I see some well-off tourist, who would spend $200.00 for a meal at home without complaint, haggling over a few baht to a poor Thai, trying to get by, by selling fruit or something at a small markup.

My Thai wife of 36 years, thinks that the general concensus is that Thais around the country are becoming less friendly to outsiders.

Again, maybe this has something to do with the increasing number of Russians and Mid-east tourists, that I personally have found to be without any social graces when it comes to other cultures and peoples.

Just my thoughts.

Good luck.

RickThai

[WarpSpeed]

Don't start discussions with school age girls.

You probably get the same reaction in your home country.

Yes, so what about all those Thai's who start discussions with my young school age boys then? Since when is that a crime to be sociable to the youth..

Anyway having said that I haven't noticed the change but it's certain there is an underlying insecurity amongst many Thai men regarding farang men and not every Thai wants one for a potential BiL...

Edited October 6, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[parallaxtech]

Rick: No I was willing to pay the full price of 200B and I was smiling and in a good mood. I remember a few months ago going through the same market and some people I knew stopped me to chat. One of the vendors stepped in and said to them that I was a very bad farang, but since they knew me, we all just ignored him.

And as far as asking a school girl where she attends school, I have done this all over the world with no problem. Asking them out on a date is another matter entirely! It was obvious that I was not trying to pick her up. Anybody out there with teenage daughters, would you attack a man for asking her where or if she went to school? You would probably listen closely to make sure of his intentions, but just ignore him when it was obvious that he was just being kind.

[snuggzzz]

Rick: No I was willing to pay the full price of 200B and I was smiling and in a good mood. I remember a few months ago going through the same market and some people I knew stopped me to chat. One of the vendors stepped in and said to them that I was a very bad farang, but since they knew me, we all just ignored him.

And as far as asking a school girl where she attends school, I have done this all over the world with no problem. Asking them out on a date is another matter entirely! It was obvious that I was not trying to pick her up. Anybody out there with teenage daughters, would you attack a man for asking her where or if she went to school? You would probably listen closely to make sure of his intentions, but just ignore him when it was obvious that he was just being kind.

I think that you've been in the wrong place at the wrong time. From what you say, it does appear to be a sad one-off occurrence, you were just unlucky.

Edited October 6, 2011 by snuggzzz

[katyb]

Sadly, I think Poorsucker is right. Even though you were doing nothing wrong, just being natural and friendly, it really does sound like a father protecting his daughter. Whether justified or not, it's just what Dads do. Same all over the world. But especially here, as you know how easily things can be misconstrued.

If it was just a one off, ignore it.

[Penkoprod]

Could it be that you have "a bit of a reputation" thereabouts, whether justified, or not?

Because, it seems there are at least 2 seperate incidents you have referred to that involved you directly.

There was the original one mentioned in the OP, and the one quoted below

I remember a few months ago going through the same market and some people I knew stopped me to chat. One of the vendors stepped in and said to them that I was a very bad farang, but since they knew me, we all just ignored him.

Perhaps you should take a step back, and keep yourself to yourself.... for the time-being at least.

You could try asking those "people that know you" to ask around, to try to get to the bottom of these seemingly unfounded allegations made against you.

I would tend NOT to let it lie, as these things can quite easily spiral out of control.

Penkoprod

[smokie36]

Sadly, I think Poorsucker is right. Even though you were doing nothing wrong, just being natural and friendly, it really does sound like a father protecting his daughter. Whether justified or not, it's just what Dads do. Same all over the world. But especially here, as you know how easily things can be misconstrued.

If it was just a one off, ignore it.

I would tend to agree. Given the number of shall we say "off the wall" westerners on the island you can't blame a parent really for being over reactive...jaded even.

[spacedcowboy]

I've seen similiar things happen to farang on Samui and in the rest of Thailand.

What might of happened and obviously I don't know the full scenario is some locals like to play play-ground games with the Farang.

I don't know what they get out of it, but I've experienced farangs treated really cruelly by locals as soon as the Farang leaves the incident all of the locals fall about laughing, very much school boy humour.

Don't worry they even do the same thing amongst themselves, just that they obviously get more of a chuckle and points for picking on the out-of-towner

I wouldn't take it personallylaugh back even louder that really confuses them.

Edited October 6, 2011 by spacedcowboy

[kennalder]

Your headline is rather generic, it lead me to believe you had evidence of many westerners being victims of aggressive behavior. What was there was one very specific and dangerous instance toward you, and a lot of general arm waving and hollering directed at you. Eventually a second specific and dangerous instance toward you. Both of these would scare the crap out of me if they were directed at me. I would not take either lightly. If I knew I had done nothing wrong, I would get to the bottom of this right away and get it resolved before it escalates any further. I have not noticed any arm waving and shouting at me or anyone else.

[TongueThaied]

During the time I have been here (five years), I have noticed that a great many of the farang men here are not the same as the typical guy back home (US). Many here tend to be loud and boisterous in public and complain to their friends in their loud voices that ALL Thais are stupid, dishonest and incompetent. Thais don't know how to have a good time; Thais eat food not fit for dogs; Thais should learn to speak English, etc. This is done with a complete disregard for the fact that many Thais around them may understand English. Many of the allegations made by farangs may be true in some cases, but that is not the point. When in a dispute with a shop keeper, these farangs will berate and yell until the shop keeper gives him what he wants just to make him go away. Many farangs take pride in their ability to "not take this bullshit from these Thais." They take pride in screaming the Thai profanities they have learned, which are shocking and would never even be uttered in public by most Thais. Many shop keepers probably deserve every bit of it, but again, that's not the point. Thai women seem to overwhelmingly prefer farang men over Thai men. I understand the reason, but one more time, that's not the point.

In the States, everybody is pissed off at the Mexicans, with one of the biggest complaints, aside from their actual presence, is that they haven't bothered to learn English. Hmmmm.

What absolutely amazes me is my level of acceptance (or at least apparent acceptance) from most Thais. Every single one of you reading this has observed these behaviors and may be guilty of them. Although I admit I have been guilty of some of the behaviors listed above, I deplore them. They give us all a black eye. When my friend starts ranting and raving in a restaurant, it is a reflection on me.

If I were a Thai, especially a Thai man, I would hate farangs. I feel lucky that most of them don't seem to think like that. If most Thais formed the judgments I would form about these "outsiders" acting this way in my country, I guess I couldn't even be here; the joy would be gone out of it. We are pretty lucky "they" are NOT like "us."

Edited October 7, 2011 by Rooo
Obscenity removed.

[zorro1]

There is nothing wrong with interacting with youths in a social situation an example being children of friends or your own childs friends.

However you were there to buy shoes and initiating a chat about her school without any reason does seem a bit forward. A lot depends on your age, If your a teen then fair enough but 40 not so good

I would forget the incident as a protective farther. Thailand is not big on litigation so he wouldn't have thought twice about going after you physically

Edited October 7, 2011 by zorro1

[maccaroni man]

i stay away from thai men unless they work for me, i have never worn what i consider rose tinted glasses in regards to how they see me. When i lived in bali I had male indonesian friends but have never had a thai male friend and feel safer that way.

[BangrakBob]

Again, maybe this has something to do with the increasing number of Russians and Mid-east tourists, that I personally have found to be without any social graces when it comes to other cultures and peoples.

Yeah I guess that's right Rick, because western cultured people like you yanks and europeans have done nothing but come here and respect the culture, it's people and are still doing so to this very day, commendable really.

[muimatt]

I agree with the OP, the Thais are getting more aggressive. Probably because of the lack of money...

Edited October 7, 2011 by muimatt

[itishothere]

Some interesting points being discussed.

Around the world, regimes are being ousted because people are tired of being poor.

In Greece, there are strikes because people do not want to give up their wealth.

In the US there are protests against the rich Wall Street bankers.

Samui has struggled over the last few years. Maybe it is time for the rich farangs who live in multi-million baht homes with 24 hour security and (relatively) unimagineable wealth to keep a lower profile?

I was out for dinner locally last night. Got to joking with the staff and showed them my wallet which had no credit cards in and just a few hundred baht in cash. They immediately (again joking) told me to go to the ATM to get some more. They didn't think for one minute that I was hard up in any way. And of course, relatively speaking, they are probably right.

[parallaxtech]

Sadly, I follow the same rule. When I first came here years ago I was warned by an expat to stay away from Thai men. Since I had lived all over the world and enjoyed different cultures and languages I had a problem with that, so I mingled with the locals and learned the language. I quickly found out that the gentleman who had warned me was correct and have stayed away from most Thai men ever sense. The problem is that you sooner or later must interface with them. I was told also that the longer one stays here the more of a target they become. I have heard several false rumours about myself, but think about it, how often have you heard a Thai say something good about a farang? As everyone knows here our money is tolerated, but we are not.

I will take the advice many have given to forget about it and stay away from that market. Thanks again for all those who have given this some thought and provided insight.

Edited October 7, 2011 by parallaxtech

[Master of the court]

I can tell, you dont have a daughter !!

[carmine]

I can tell, you dont have a daughter !!

Thats just what i was thinking!

I'm sure the OP was doing nothing wrong but it could also be a case of the girls dad/brother/friend having seen the behaviour of foreigners in chaweng. You know the ones, the ones that are old enough to know better, trying to chat up a girl young enough to be their daughter.

[PattayaPhom]

Out of curiosity...how old are you?...although your intentions wernt anything other than being friendly there are many idiots living here that think they can touch and joke with any girl in the street.......I certainly wouldnt want an older foreign man trying to chat up my 16 year old daughter....try and see it from his point of view

[joeserious]

Rick: No I was willing to pay the full price of 200B and I was smiling and in a good mood. I remember a few months ago going through the same market and some people I knew stopped me to chat. One of the vendors stepped in and said to them that I was a very bad farang, but since they knew me, we all just ignored him.

And as far as asking a school girl where she attends school, I have done this all over the world with no problem. Asking them out on a date is another matter entirely! It was obvious that I was not trying to pick her up. Anybody out there with teenage daughters, would you attack a man for asking her where or if she went to school? You would probably listen closely to make sure of his intentions, but just ignore him when it was obvious that he was just being kind.

maybe the guy was having a bad day / been messed around by farang already and misconstrued what you said as inferring she wasn't been schooled... in fact, maybe she doesn't go to school, works instead and you touched a nerve?!

would you ask someone in england, clearly of school age if they attended school?? i should hope not, it's patronising at best.

as for rising levels of hatred for forangs, probably attributed to 'bad tourists.' why not move away from the tourist hot spot chaweng??!

[parallaxtech]

I can tell, you dont have a daughter !!

Thats just what i was thinking!

I'm sure the OP was doing nothing wrong but it could also be a case of the girls dad/brother/friend having seen the behaviour of foreigners in chaweng. You know the ones, the ones that are old enough to know better, trying to chat up a girl young enough to be their daughter.

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In the civilised world if you physically assaulted every man or any man who asked your daughter where she attended school you would never get out of prison. Attacking someone with intent to harm or kill is an extremely serious action one which I would only take in defence of my life or my family. And keep in mind that the girl was working there. Anyone who has ever worked retail understands that chatting with the customers is part of the job. I hope no one is advocating violence against any person who utters a kind word or innocuous question to their daughter. It has become a "witch hunt" out there to find and accuse anyone who shows any affection towards a person under the age of eighteen, but let's not perpetuate this hysteria. And yes I feel for anyone with daughters, but part of being a parent is surely determining right from wrong, and not going berserk anytime someone says "hello" to a family member especially in a work environment.

On the other hand I see their view of foreigners grabbing every girl they see in and around the Green Mango. Their perception is that we can buy any woman. So I give them the benefit of the doubt and will try and avoid these situations.

Edited October 7, 2011 by parallaxtech

[ParadiseLost]

It could also be a father driven crazy by a 16 year old entering womanhood and letting her hormones rule her head. Perhaps she is being extra friendly to too many ferangs and you were the unlucky straw that broke the camel's back.

Please don't take this as a slur towards the girl; no matter what nationality, a 16 yo girl is a scary thing to look after. I know from my two daughters who both loved male attention at that age but would be disgusted if the male actually wanted to take things to another level.

The best advice by far is to not interact with young Thais - think about when you were young and how you felt about older people. Very 'uncool', uncle.

Edited October 7, 2011 by ParadiseLost

[samuibeachcomber]

Don't start discussions with school age girls.

exactly,any father might get his back up,have to be discerning

Edited October 7, 2011 by samuibeachcomber

[carmine]

I can tell, you dont have a daughter !!

Thats just what i was thinking!

I'm sure the OP was doing nothing wrong but it could also be a case of the girls dad/brother/friend having seen the behaviour of foreigners in chaweng. You know the ones, the ones that are old enough to know better, trying to chat up a girl young enough to be their daughter.

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In the civilised world if you physically assaulted every man or any man who asked your daughter where she attended school you would never get out of prison. Attacking someone with intent to harm or kill is an extremely serious action one which I would only take in defence of my life or my family. And keep in mind that the girl was working there. Anyone who has ever worked retail understands that chatting with the customers is part of the job. I hope no one is advocating violence against any person who utters a kind word or innocuous question to their daughter. It has become a "witch hunt" out there to find and accuse anyone who shows any affection towards a person under the age of eighteen, but let's not perpetuate this hysteria. And yes I feel for anyone with daughters, but part of being a parent is surely determining right from wrong, and not going berserk anytime someone says "hello" to a family member especially in a work environment.

On the other hand I see their view of foreigners grabbing every girl they see in and around the Green Mango. Their perception is that we can buy any woman. So I give them the benefit of the doubt and will try and avoid these situations.

You mention the civilised world in relation to Samui. Theres no relation. Its not part of the civilised world and not likely to become part of the civilised world soon or for that matter in the very distant future.

Its more a law of the jungle type place.