What Happens If The Wife Dies?

[NCFC]

Married to a Thai lady for twenty-five years and living here for the past nine years on a non-immigrant o-visa. My question is, what happens if a.) my wife were to die or b,) if we divorced? (no plans for either scenario but think it is better to be forwarned).

Is my visa status immediately revoked if either of a.) or b.) was to occur before visa renewal date?

Could I continue to renew my one-year extentions for a.) or b.)? I'm over 55, so would I have to convert to a retirement visa in such cases in order to stay in Thailand?

Thanks for any info on the subject.

Edited October 6, 2011 by NCFC

[sbk]

A poor attempt at humor and responses to that post have been removed. The Visas forum is not a place for trollish behavior but where members come to find serious answers to their issues. If you don't have any real information to offer then its recommended that you don't bother to post, thanks

[Maestro]

NCFC, in case of death of your wife or divorce your permission to stay in Thailand will not be immediately revoked but you will not be able to get a new extension of stay for the reason of living with your wife. You would not have to change your visa, ie need not get a new visa from a Thai consulate, but you would have to apply for you next extension of stay for a different reason for which you qualify, eg for retirement in your case, as you mentioned, would be a suitable alternative. Where applicable, the foreigner could also apply for extension to live with Thai child, employment, etc.

[lopburi3]

From the document that we sign now on extension of stay to certify our understanding that extension immediately ends with loss of supporting reason it would appear immediate loss of extension status would be the result but do not believe there would be any action on death but for divorce believe immediate departure would be required. A retirement extension would be an option.

[samran]

Or if you have been working and have three consecutive years of tax returns in Thailand it is possible to apply for permanent residency.

[CharlieH]

Suggestion:

Change to a Retirement Visa if possible as neither of the scenarios you have stated will effect it.

Its less paperwork and hassle. This is possibly why the immigration prefer you to do Retirement as its less work for them too.

Edited October 7, 2011 by CharlieH

[mike123ca]

Suggestion:

Change to a Retirement Visa if possible as neither of the scenarios you have stated will effect it.

Its less paperwork and hassle. This is possibly why the immigration prefer you to do Retirement as its less work for them too.

I'm only 49 and I also need to have work visa.For now, I'm using the marriage visa.

It's very possible something terrible happens to your spouse and you have made a life here in Thailand.

Then you have to pack up and leave.

If your married to a Thai national, why are the requirements for PR or Citizenship so difficult

for foreign men?

[samran]

^^

For citizenship, there has been a relaxation of the laws in 2008 which makes more or less easier to apply for a foreign male in a legitimate marriage without having to go to PR first, which is what foreign women married to Thai men have long been able to do.

What I gather seems to be the 'hard' bit for many foreign males is the requirement that hey hold down a job in Thailand and have paid Thai tax on it.

This is in fact little different to the rules for foreign women married to a Thai. In that case the Thai male also has to have a job and tax history if the application is to even be considered.

[Captain Haddock]

So if you're married to a Thai and have children, and the partner dies, when it comes to renewal you just say you're still supporting the kids, right? Until they're 21, eh?

[a99az]

NCFC, in case of death of your wife or divorce your permission to stay in Thailand will not be immediately revoked but you will not be able to get a new extension of stay for the reason of living with your wife. You would not have to change your visa, ie need not get a new visa from a Thai consulate, but you would have to apply for you next extension of stay for a different reason for which you qualify, eg for retirement in your case, as you mentioned, would be a suitable alternative. Where applicable, the foreigner could also apply for extension to live with Thai child, employment, etc.

How very sad, just think about that for a moment. Some guy living here for a big chunk of his life married to a Thai, suddenly loses his love. What must he do? Up sticks and go. What a cold unpleasant way to have to grieve. Makes me think!

[samran]

^^

Well no, cause there are options for retirement visa's as a minimum, and if you have been living here for a long time you've likely been working so PR and Citizenship should be options along the way.

[lopburi3]

So if you're married to a Thai and have children, and the partner dies, when it comes to renewal you just say you're still supporting the kids, right? Until they're 21, eh?

You could receive non immigrant O visas for 90 day stays but for extension of stay you would have to meet same financials as for marriage and be legal guardian for children living with you. It would not be just "say" but "do".

[mike123ca]

NCFC, in case of death of your wife or divorce your permission to stay in Thailand will not be immediately revoked but you will not be able to get a new extension of stay for the reason of living with your wife. You would not have to change your visa, ie need not get a new visa from a Thai consulate, but you would have to apply for you next extension of stay for a different reason for which you qualify, eg for retirement in your case, as you mentioned, would be a suitable alternative. Where applicable, the foreigner could also apply for extension to live with Thai child, employment, etc.

How very sad, just think about that for a moment. Some guy living here for a big chunk of his life married to a Thai, suddenly loses his love. What must he do? Up sticks and go. What a cold unpleasant way to have to grieve. Makes me think!

Absolutely Right,

You invest 20 + years, of your life in Thailand. Now you you might be in your 70's to 80's. Your wife has pasted away and your children are too old. Since you been here

for such a long time, you are expected to return home. Surprise, there is nothing to return home because your family is now here in Thailand.

After X amount of years on marriage or child support there should be a family visa for those who lose their spouse or if their children are too old.

The retirement visa should be for those who have "No relations with Thai nationals".

[samran]

While I agree mike123ca that there should be an automatic right to residency and work for those married, or indeed long term relationships, the fact of the matter is that there isn't - but their are alternatives available including retirement and citizenship which while it might be a slow process isn't exactly difficult to be eligible for especially if you are working.

[Brunus]

Or if you have been working and have three consecutive years of tax returns in Thailand it is possible to apply for permanent residency.

For citizenship, there has been a relaxation of the laws in 2008 which makes more or less easier to apply for a foreign male in a legitimate marriage without having to go to PR first, which is what foreign women married to Thai men have long been able to do.

What I gather seems to be the 'hard' bit for many foreign males is the requirement that hey hold down a job in Thailand and have paid Thai tax on it.

This is in fact little different to the rules for foreign women married to a Thai. In that case the Thai male also has to have a job and tax history if the application is to even be considered.

I had worked in Thailand from November 2005 to March 2008, I had a work permit and I paid tax. Got married with a Thai lady in 2009. From March 2008 until now I have been on tourist visa, stamps on arrival and since married non O from KL. Since I quit my job in Thailand I have been working in my country in the summer and spent the rest of the time in Thailand, so I don't live here all year long.

Do I meet the requirements to apply for PR or citizenship?

[NCFC]

Thank you all for your replies and advice. This is question I ask because I think it is a scenario facing many men. I do work here but one thing that bothers me is that the amount I will receive in retirement pension from my Thai job may not be enough to qualify as a foreigner with retirement visa, especially since by the time I retire, the government will probably hiked the qualifying levels once again. Scary to think after putting so much time and effort and transferring my work skills to a Thai workforce that I might be packed off on a plane back to a country with which I have no ties.In my own case I have a daughter who would hopefully look after me in old age, but there's always the worst case scenario and who knows how the future will pan out. Probably best to prepare in advance.

[Mario2008]

I had worked in Thailand from November 2005 to March 2008, I had a work permit and I paid tax. Got married with a Thai lady in 2009. From March 2008 until now I have been on tourist visa, stamps on arrival and since married non O from KL. Since I quit my job in Thailand I have been working in my country in the summer and spent the rest of the time in Thailand, so I don't live here all year long.

Do I meet the requirements to apply for PR or citizenship?

The short answer is: No.

For PR you need to reside in Thailand on extensions of stay and be working with a work permit and pay taxes.

[OJAS]

^^

For citizenship, there has been a relaxation of the laws in 2008 which makes more or less easier to apply for a foreign male in a legitimate marriage without having to go to PR first, which is what foreign women married to Thai men have long been able to do.

What I gather seems to be the 'hard' bit for many foreign males is the requirement that hey hold down a job in Thailand and have paid Thai tax on it.

This is in fact little different to the rules for foreign women married to a Thai. In that case the Thai male also has to have a job and tax history if the application is to even be considered.

Does this mean that those of us who are living in Thailand under O/O-A visas or annual extensions of stay for retirement purposes will never become eligible for citizen status on the grounds that we have never worked or paid direct taxes here?

Edited October 12, 2011 by OJAS

[Artisi]

^^

For citizenship, there has been a relaxation of the laws in 2008 which makes more or less easier to apply for a foreign male in a legitimate marriage without having to go to PR first, which is what foreign women married to Thai men have long been able to do.

What I gather seems to be the 'hard' bit for many foreign males is the requirement that hey hold down a job in Thailand and have paid Thai tax on it.

This is in fact little different to the rules for foreign women married to a Thai. In that case the Thai male also has to have a job and tax history if the application is to even be considered.

Does this mean that those of us who are living in Thailand under O/O-A visas or annual extensions of stay for retirement purposes will never become eligible for citizen status on the grounds that we have never worked or paid direct taxes here?

Seems that way.

[GarryP]

I too have thought about this. It is one of the reasons I have decided to apply for citizenship. I have been here nearly 30 years and my family is here, so being asked to leave is quite a frightening prospect. In the interim, I could get extensions based on work. Also, as someone pointed out, the pension you draw may not be sufficient to qualify you for yearly extensions.

As to citizenship, while it is easier than before and no longer requires a PR in the case of a foreign man married to a Thai, if you do not have good Thai language skills, you are unlikely to get the minimum qualifying points without the PR in hand.

[samran]

^^

For citizenship, there has been a relaxation of the laws in 2008 which makes more or less easier to apply for a foreign male in a legitimate marriage without having to go to PR first, which is what foreign women married to Thai men have long been able to do.

What I gather seems to be the 'hard' bit for many foreign males is the requirement that hey hold down a job in Thailand and have paid Thai tax on it.

This is in fact little different to the rules for foreign women married to a Thai. In that case the Thai male also has to have a job and tax history if the application is to even be considered.

Does this mean that those of us who are living in Thailand under O/O-A visas or annual extensions of stay for retirement purposes will never become eligible for citizen status on the grounds that we have never worked or paid direct taxes here?

Yes, similarly a foreign woman married to a non-working Thai male would not be eligible either.

In both cases, the law has a failing in my own opinion.

[OJAS]

^^

For citizenship, there has been a relaxation of the laws in 2008 which makes more or less easier to apply for a foreign male in a legitimate marriage without having to go to PR first, which is what foreign women married to Thai men have long been able to do.

What I gather seems to be the 'hard' bit for many foreign males is the requirement that hey hold down a job in Thailand and have paid Thai tax on it.

This is in fact little different to the rules for foreign women married to a Thai. In that case the Thai male also has to have a job and tax history if the application is to even be considered.

Does this mean that those of us who are living in Thailand under O/O-A visas or annual extensions of stay for retirement purposes will never become eligible for citizen status on the grounds that we have never worked or paid direct taxes here?

Yes, similarly a foreign woman married to a non-working Thai male would not be eligible either.

In both cases, the law has a failing in my own opinion.

But were our Thai wives to have an adequate employment/taxation history in Thailand in their own right, would we then become eligible? Or does gender discrimination still rule OK in LOS in this regard?

[billd766]

^^

For citizenship, there has been a relaxation of the laws in 2008 which makes more or less easier to apply for a foreign male in a legitimate marriage without having to go to PR first, which is what foreign women married to Thai men have long been able to do.

What I gather seems to be the 'hard' bit for many foreign males is the requirement that hey hold down a job in Thailand and have paid Thai tax on it.

This is in fact little different to the rules for foreign women married to a Thai. In that case the Thai male also has to have a job and tax history if the application is to even be considered.

Does this mean that those of us who are living in Thailand under O/O-A visas or annual extensions of stay for retirement purposes will never become eligible for citizen status on the grounds that we have never worked or paid direct taxes here?

Seems that way.

There is another thread about paying tax on pensions from abroad while living in Thailand.

If that should happen then it could be grounds for citizenship perhaps.

[OJAS]

There is another thread about paying tax on pensions from abroad while living in Thailand.

If that should happen then it could be grounds for citizenship perhaps.

Posting a link to this other thread would certainly be helpful to me at any rate.

[billd766]

There is another thread about paying tax on pensions from abroad while living in Thailand.

If that should happen then it could be grounds for citizenship perhaps.

Posting a link to this other thread would certainly be helpful to me at any rate.

My apologies.

I am having a brain dump sort of day.

[OJAS]

There is another thread about paying tax on pensions from abroad while living in Thailand.

If that should happen then it could be grounds for citizenship perhaps.

Posting a link to this other thread would certainly be helpful to me at any rate.

My apologies.

I am having a brain dump sort of day.

http://www.thaivisa...._1#entry4753718

Thanks, Bill!

[samran]

^^

For citizenship, there has been a relaxation of the laws in 2008 which makes more or less easier to apply for a foreign male in a legitimate marriage without having to go to PR first, which is what foreign women married to Thai men have long been able to do.

What I gather seems to be the 'hard' bit for many foreign males is the requirement that hey hold down a job in Thailand and have paid Thai tax on it.

This is in fact little different to the rules for foreign women married to a Thai. In that case the Thai male also has to have a job and tax history if the application is to even be considered.

Does this mean that those of us who are living in Thailand under O/O-A visas or annual extensions of stay for retirement purposes will never become eligible for citizen status on the grounds that we have never worked or paid direct taxes here?

Yes, similarly a foreign woman married to a non-working Thai male would not be eligible either.

In both cases, the law has a failing in my own opinion.

But were our Thai wives to have an adequate employment/taxation history in Thailand in their own right, would we then become eligible? Or does gender discrimination still rule OK in LOS in this regard?

Under my understanding, the rules for both sides (Thai male/Foreign wife, Foreign male/Thai wife) require that the man must be earning and have Thai tax history up to date. So yes, sexist in that respect.

However I haven't read chapter and verse of the rules. My advice always is to go down to Special Branch on Rama I in Bangkok, just across from Central World and have a chat to the officals there.

They have plenty of time on their hands (people aren't exactly knocking the doors down) and they are friendly in helping people understanding what rules apply to them. I don't want to get your hopes up, but for long term relationships with kids etc, who knows?

I'm not saying there is an 'out' here for you, but at least with them you'll get a better idea of where you stand. The upside is (in my opinion) is that if they think you have a case they'll accept your application for processing. The don't really bother accepting applications where they know people will be rejected down the track (plus, they get into trouble for troubling their superiors with go-nowhere applications).