Farewell Thailand. I Miss You Already.

[Gaccha]

and if you cant actually make sense of what he is saying you are either thick or being obtuse

Who said that anyone does not understand what he is trying to say? Unlike some folks, roamer actually gets the point (which is pretty hard to miss).

Familiar with Horace ? Brevis esse laboro, obscurus fio.

Then shame on you again. For you implied the reverse.

I just got a personal message saying "Hey, I just read your recent posts about neoliberalism capitalism etc. And...I absolutely loved them because they hit really close to home and pretty much mirror the situation im in now".

It seems that I managed to conceptualise the guy's situation pretty well. Obviously accusing me of being pretentious for simply taking two strands of thought found in academic literature and sticking them together is a grotesque move from a bookseller.

We live in a society where all the media follows the liberal view: live in a democracy, free to do what we want within very expansive limits. Yet behind this facade, the dominant forces of capitalism and the State's desire to dominant in order to produce a banalised life, has taken away much of the enjoyment of life.

Edited October 11, 2011 by Gaccha

[IanForbes]

One difference is of course that the trappers were out scouting for indians and game, they where deprived of food.

We OTOH are out scouting for happy hour draft beer & go-go girls, and where deprived of sex & sun.

I think most of us 'trappers' are living on pension, and the most needed protection is condoms & sun block

Ah yes, when I was a young man I had a "trap line" of young ladies... great memories. Then, the middle years were all about the topic that gaccha explained. Today, as an old fart, it's nice to return to the "trap line" of lovely young ladies. Pensions DO help, but you still have to manage your resources and protect yourself as best you can in the traffic. And, if you aren't careful it's easy to get destroyed by the indians... disguised as lovely young pole dancers. There are new stories every day on thaivisa explaining some unfortunate sexpate who got scammed by his child bride.

[ableguy]

I think the best part is escaping the neoliberal capitalist mechanisms of producing the docile, productive, fearing subject. Its inanane architecture points out the winners (the docile, productive ones) and the losers (those with lives).

I feel privileged to have escaped it since becoming an adult. But it still amazes me that TV members go to inordinate lengths to big up their-- neoliberal-defined-- status. Their full-time jobs since retirement are status anxiety and reputational damage control.

So, while the OP, vaguely speaks of the "relaxed people", I think this is what he might be grasping at. As an economist recently said: manufacturing is not an area of competitive advantage for the Thais. Or in my language, the Thais don't behave as the neoliberal capitalist demands. Or on the other hand, maybe he just means they really are relaxed people...

I feel privileged at my lengthy time in Thailand.

What the hell are you waffeling abour ?

[Ulysses G.]

I just got a personal message saying "Hey, I just read your recent posts about neoliberalism capitalism etc.

A fan letter. I bet you did.

Edited October 11, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Gaccha]

I just got a personal message saying "Hey, I just read your recent posts about neoliberalism capitalism etc.

A fan letter. I bet you did.

Ah, yes, I have seen this strategy of diversion somewhere before...

"If you find that you are being worsted, you can make a diversion - that is, you can suddenly begin to talk of something else, as though it had a bearing on the matter in dispute, and afforded an argument against your opponent. This may be done without presumption if the diversion has, in fact, some general bearing on the matter; but it is a piece of impudence if it has nothing to do with the case, and is only brought in by way of attacking your opponent."--Arthur Schopenhauer

I would like to pre-empt your next message by offering a menu of options for you to proceed with your vacuous attacks:

The Extension

The Homonymy

Generalize your Opponent's Specific Statements

Conceal Your Game

False Propositions

Postulate What Has To Be Proved

Yield Admissions Through Questions

Make Your Opponent Angry

Questions in Detouring Order

Take Advantage of The Nay-Sayer

Generalize Admissions of Specific Cases

Choose Metaphors Favourable to Your Proposition

Agree to Reject the Counter-Proposition

Claim Victory Despite Defeat

Use Seemingly Absurd Propositions

Arguments Ad Hominem

Defense Through Subtle Distinction

Interrupt, Break, Divert the Dispute

Generalize the Matter, Then Argue Against it

Draw Conclusions Yourself

Meet him With a Counter-Argument as Bad as His

petitio principii

Make Him Exaggerate his Statement

State a False Syllogism

Find One Instance to The Contrary

Turn The Tables

Anger Indicates a Weak Point

Persuade the Audience, Not The Opponent

Diversion

Appeal to Authority Rather Than Reason

This is Beyond Me

Put His Thesis Into Some Odious Category

It Applies in Theory, But Not in Practice

Don't Let Him Off The Hook

Will is More Effective Than Insight

Bewilder Your opponent by Mere Bombast

A Faulty Proof Refutes His Whole Position

Become Personal, Insulting, Rude

[Ulysses G.]

I just got a personal message saying "Hey, I just read your recent posts about neoliberalism capitalism etc.

A fan letter. I bet you did.

Ah, yes, I have seen this strategy of diversion somewhere before...

No diversion. I responded directly to your claim that posters were sending you gushing PMs about your grandiose posts that they did not bother posting on the thread for some strange reason.

Edited October 11, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[jimbeam1]

Thank you for the post rideswings. That little reality check just done me some good. Don't think I could face going back to the UK right now. other than for holiday's. Hope all turns out well for you.

jb1

[WarpSpeed]

I sincerely hope the aforementioned leads to our all enlightment on how PRIVILEGED we all are , lucky to have been born on the "right" side of the big water, wild west trapper times long past, we have been "ductile & servient" in a degree that has earned us a pension or the ability and knowledge on how to hustle on your neighbours. I understand gaancha very well in what he refers to. And to the original poster, the shock he woke up to after he had to leave the land of milk and honey , plus his health insufficiencies, must have been horrible. I include my best wishes for his wellgoing and may he be able to return to the paradise of the Privileged Few. To know what one has lost is to know the real value of a thing. Not from a materialistic view, but from knowing your privileges. I am thanking it on my knees every day . . .

Wow! There's some seriously subjugated people on here? It makes me wonder about what sort of life you made for yourselves before coming over here, you reap what sow. It seems most didn't choose the right life nor right place to live in their home country but there is green grass on both sides it just depends on how you fertilize and maintain your own spot in life.. The only one putting pressure on you to keep up with the Jones's is you. I suspect that many here couldn't do that back home but have just enough to put them ahead here so they get their ego's stroked more and that is more where their happiness comes from,sad really..

Personally I feel it's far more courageous and the mark of strong character of someone who can move in either direction without a major breakdown. Life is all about experiences or so it should be and if one doesn't suit you you try something else but too often people fall into a rut and forego the effort it takes as I do recognize, based on what is posted often times, that many here are very sheltered on life's experiences and then when someone who hasn't limited themselves posts up they get the hair standing up the back of their neck about that experience they lack and someone else has, saying they can't have experienced so much just because they haven't..

I see the same thing happening here, this is not the paradise some have deluded themselves into thinking it is but that all depends on what you came from and what you made of it..

Personally I can go anywhere and mostly be happy but some things eventually grate on me and it's time to move on and experiencing new things, locations and challenges as I'm not at all impressed with bars or the girls that inhabit them so that leaves very little to do here that is of interest with a family to consider or even just by myself, back home no problems the clean entertainment is endless if one chooses..

[WarpSpeed]

My story is very similar minus the health problems. I spent a year in Thailand and decided for some reason to travel and work in Australia in May. However, after travelling around SE Asia in March and doing a motorbike trip across Northern Thailand, it become abundantly clear that I was not ready to leave. I love the people, the food and the way of life here. I couldnt believe how helpful people were when I was stuck at the side of the road with motorbike problems.

Anyway, I still decided to go to Australia and am not having fun. Im making money but the money really isnt worth sacrificing being surrounded by great people, fantastic culture etc.

Its safe to say, i'm coming back to Thailand very soon. Part of the reason im posting on TV is because im experiencing Thailand withdrawal and this is a way for me to feel connected while being away. haha.

Rideswings, I hope you get your health back on track and get back to Thailand.

What????? Aussie's aren't great people?? Flies in the face of everything I've heard?

From them at least ..... But seriously the few I've known most have been accommodating people..

[Gaccha]

I just got a personal message saying "Hey, I just read your recent posts about neoliberalism capitalism etc.

A fan letter. I bet you did.

Ah, yes, I have seen this strategy of diversion somewhere before...

No diversion. I responded directly to your claim that posters were sending you gushing PMs about your grandiose posts that they did not bother posting on the thread for some strange reason.

You lengthen your diversion by a post that is self-deniable. Simply making another diversion and then claiming it is not so does not mean it is not so. A bigot who says "I'm not a bigot but..." is still a bigot.

You will note that the attacks on me on this thread run in exactly the same way as the attacks by the liberal-democrat neo-liberal states. In order to discipline their populations to lead banalised lives, they assiduously encourage self-enforcement mechanisms through complex regulatory controls over the human body: 'biopower'.

The attack options are:

1. abnormalise

2. medicalise ("what has he smoked? I want some")

3. appeal to absurdity ("a cat stepped on his keyboard")

The State does the same. If you don't fit in the box, then you are ill, or in need of help, or should be ignored.

Now, try to favour your books over the bar. And then we'll talk.

[WarpSpeed]

Ah, yes, I have seen this strategy of diversion somewhere before...

No diversion. I responded directly to your claim that posters were sending you gushing PMs about your grandiose posts that they did not bother posting on the thread for some strange reason.

The State does the same. If you don't fit in the box, then you are ill, or in need of help, or should be ignored.

This I completely agree with... Only I would have used 'marginalized' instead of "ignored", semantics really...

[stiggy]

Possibly the most wordy thread Hijack I have ever come across.

Have had many academics work for me, drove me nuts with longwinded answers to simple questions.

Put them in a corridor of a burning building, most would burn to death debating which exit provide the best possibility of survival.

Still enjoy there company and for the most envy the education that was provided for them.

Gaccha enjoyed reading the posts, eaiser to say however most run away from something ie lifestyle or compliance to a particular social order to only embrace and mimick it again over here. Often resulting in a fridge full of home comforts and a western lifestyle in Thailand.

OP hang in be cool see you back in LOS when your better, thanks also for the reminder of how lucky we are to hav ethe choice.

[Gaccha]

Possibly the most wordy thread Hijack I have ever come across.

Have had many academics work for me, drove me nuts with longwinded answers to simple questions.

Put them in a corridor of a burning building, most would burn to death debating which exit provide the best possibility of survival.

Still enjoy there company and for the most envy the education that was provided for them.

Gaccha enjoyed reading the posts, eaiser to say however most run away from something ie lifestyle or compliance to a particular social order to only embrace and mimick it again over here. Often resulting in a fridge full of home comforts and a western lifestyle in Thailand.

OP hang in be cool see you back in LOS when your better, thanks also for the reminder of how lucky we are to hav ethe choice.

In my defence, I was accused I(see the Latin quote on page 1) of, in effect, not writing enough and so confusing the readers. So I then spelt out the concepts. Then I was placed under a series of empty attacks.

Still, I am glad you enjoyed the post. I would say you are iin agreement with me on the last point ("only embrace and mimick it again over here") as I wrote of the full-time job of Status Anxiety and Reputational Damage Limitation.

And I definitely don't think it is a hijacking of the thread. Without my original post, the thread would have repeated the scores of other threads about the feelings of going back. I just tried to look below the surface. If 'thinking' is a hijacking then what's the point...

[Ulysses G.]

You lengthen your diversion by a post that is self-deniable. Simply making another diversion and then claiming it is not so does not mean it is not so.

I initially implied that you were using dry, pompous language in one of your posts (to which a number of others posters seem to agree). I then implied that you might be being less than honest about getting gushing love letters from other posters in your PM box praising that very same pretentious post.

Maybe you need to look up the meaning of the word "diversion" before you get back to scouring the thesaurus to write your next affected rant.

Edited October 11, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

In my defence, I was accused I(see the Latin quote on page 1) of, in effect, not writing enough and so confusing the readers.

Now I see the problem. I think that we are translating that quote very differently.

Whatever advice you give, be brief.

- Horace

Edited October 11, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[Gaccha]

You lengthen your diversion by a post that is self-deniable. Simply making another diversion and then claiming it is not so does not mean it is not so.

I initially implied that you were using dry, pompous language in one of your posts (to which a number of others posters seem to agree). I then implied that you might be being less than honest about getting gushing love letters from other posters in your PM box praising that very same pretentious post.

Maybe you need to look up the meaning of the word "diversion" before you get back to scouring the thesaurus to write your next affected rant.

But the language I used was anything but dry. That was the point. You seriously need to read some of your books in your bookshop. I wrote, "Their full-time jobs since retirement are status anxiety and reputational damage control." This is an intensely poetic style.

I find, and you'll increasingly find as you open more books, that you don't need a thesaurus as you become accustomed to the written word.

The message writer is one of the writers on this thread. I suspect he does not want to be 'outed' in your bullying tactics.

I am careful to observe and I have picked up on traits of yours. You like to get in the last word. You can't resist it. You will have to respond to this. You think if you don't know something then it is wrong. You think if somebody knows something you don't know then they cannot know it and so are arrogantly writing above their station. Ironcially, this makes you arrogant, for thinking you can judge others. It is only arrogant if they know not of what they speak. We have already established you win the gong for the most rhetorical nonsense. And I win the award for the most intelligent response in the thread.

Sometimes you are just plain wrong. Shockingly wrong. I will take a response as a sign of surrender.

To hold such vapid anti-intellectual views, it is shameful to use the moniker of such a great American hero. I would ask you change your moniker to something more suitable. How about "Mr Turtle"?

[eslteacher]

My story is very similar minus the health problems. I spent a year in Thailand and decided for some reason to travel and work in Australia in May. However, after travelling around SE Asia in March and doing a motorbike trip across Northern Thailand, it become abundantly clear that I was not ready to leave. I love the people, the food and the way of life here. I couldnt believe how helpful people were when I was stuck at the side of the road with motorbike problems.

Anyway, I still decided to go to Australia and am not having fun. Im making money but the money really isnt worth sacrificing being surrounded by great people, fantastic culture etc.

Its safe to say, i'm coming back to Thailand very soon. Part of the reason im posting on TV is because im experiencing Thailand withdrawal and this is a way for me to feel connected while being away. haha.

Rideswings, I hope you get your health back on track and get back to Thailand.

What????? Aussie's aren't great people?? Flies in the face of everything I've heard?

From them at least ..... But seriously the few I've known most have been accommodating people..

HAHA yeah, its not so much the people here. The people are no different or at least not much different from Canadians (my home country). I really dont have a huge problem with them and in my travels, ive met some very nice Aussies. In fact, one of my best friends in Thailand was from the land of OZ. But its just the culture of "developed" countries that to be honest I might not be ready for, if ever. I fell in love with the culture and the people in Thailand. I met some real awesome people there.

[canuckamuck]

Usually the longer a post is indicates the level of delusion the writer is under. Types of delusion include superior: wit, intelligence, humor, toughness, experience,class, and attractiveness. Some fine examples here in this thread which I thought was about adjusting to life in farangland.

I am in farangland now for my second week, it seems very foreign this time around. I think I have been away too long.

[thaibeachlovers]

I think the best part is escaping the neoliberal capitalist mechanisms of producing the docile, productive, fearing subject. Its inanane architecture points out the winners (the docile, productive ones) and the losers (those with lives).

I feel privileged to have escaped it since becoming an adult. But it still amazes me that TV members go to inordinate lengths to big up their-- neoliberal-defined-- status. Their full-time jobs since retirement are status anxiety and reputational damage control.

So, while the OP, vaguely speaks of the "relaxed people", I think this is what he might be grasping at. As an economist recently said: manufacturing is not an area of competitive advantage for the Thais. Or in my language, the Thais don't behave as the neoliberal capitalist demands. Or on the other hand, maybe he just means they really are relaxed people...

I feel privileged at my lengthy time in Thailand.

Didn't understand a word of that, but your happy, so, cool.

I can understand how you feel. A deep point can require certain concepts that if unfamiliar can leave the reader bewildered.

I think the core points are understanding the concept of a neoliberal regime. This concept is the notion that there is a specific way of doing that has developed in recent times that is associated with the free flow of finance.

This regime pushes the costs onto the individual persons. So, for example, each and every person must be made to be concerned with their health, the risks they take, their financial provisions. This way of pushing responsibilities down the chain allows more profit further up the chain.

The Anglo-Saxon settler states (the USA/Canada/ Australia/UK etc.) are the prime examples of this logic.

The ideal worker is docile-- they work long hours expecting little reward and without complaint-- they are productive-- they work a lot-- and they are fearing-- they must be constantly worred about what happens if they fall sick/retire/lose their jobs/get in a car crash, and so on.

The society is put in place that encourages these ways of thinking. Although the typical liberal view is to imagine the laws of democracies as to be basically negative-- you can do something unless we say otherwise-- in fact, the sheer quantity of legislation that infests life in these advanced economies, is intended to shoehorn every person (lets call them subjects) into this one life.

The Thai life cannot be described as a success from this regime's point of view. The subjects just don't make good factory workers. It follows they have no "competitive advantage" in this area (*this term is a technical term widely used in economics). So they are a 'failure' by this viewpoint. And many of the farangs living in Thailand are similar 'failures'.

But I point out the tendency of farang on this forum to almost desperately set themselves out as 'winners' despite the definition being defined by such a nasty regime.

Now this is complex. Look to the work of Ong (at UCLA, I think) for more on this notion of an anthropological analysis of Neoliberalism, and for the productive,docile subject read some Foucault.

And as for Ulysses G., shame on you. You own a bookstore-- from memory-- you should perhaps open some of the books on the bookshelves.

Still lost but that's why l am me. Hope others understand your writings. Dee ma.

Well, I did.

Basically, western societies use fear to produce docile hard working serfs that will accept any increase in costs on their life . The only 'winners" are the puppet masters. Happens to be true.

I spent my entire working life in a state of fear, and everytime I go back "ome, I spend my time in a state of anxiety of transgressing some stupid law.

In LOS, the only thing I really fear is not being able to live here and having to go 'ome!

OP, I feel for you, I really do.

[Ijustwannateach]

I think I'm going to welcome the thread back to topicality, and ask UG and Gaccha to take it to PMs (or perhaps Bedlam) if you need to keep up the off-topic posturing.

Speaking for myself, I feel very privileged to have come out here while still young enough to make it part of 'making a living'. Despite my life in a cardboard box, I still feel that I am doing better here than I would by adopting the same vocation in the US. It would be very hard to readjust to the wage slavery prevalent there now.

OP, good luck and hope you make it back. Perhaps you can do some searching in your local communities and will find more Asians living abroad than you thought.

[endure]

I think the best part is escaping the neoliberal capitalist mechanisms of producing the docile, productive, fearing subject. Its inanane architecture points out the winners (the docile, productive ones) and the losers (those with lives).

I feel privileged to have escaped it since becoming an adult. But it still amazes me that TV members go to inordinate lengths to big up their-- neoliberal-defined-- status. Their full-time jobs since retirement are status anxiety and reputational damage control.

So, while the OP, vaguely speaks of the "relaxed people", I think this is what he might be grasping at. As an economist recently said: manufacturing is not an area of competitive advantage for the Thais. Or in my language, the Thais don't behave as the neoliberal capitalist demands. Or on the other hand, maybe he just means they really are relaxed people...

I feel privileged at my lengthy time in Thailand.

Didn't understand a word of that, but your happy, so, cool.

I can understand how you feel. A deep point can require certain concepts that if unfamiliar can leave the reader bewildered.

I think the core points are understanding the concept of a neoliberal regime. This concept is the notion that there is a specific way of doing that has developed in recent times that is associated with the free flow of finance.

This regime pushes the costs onto the individual persons. So, for example, each and every person must be made to be concerned with their health, the risks they take, their financial provisions. This way of pushing responsibilities down the chain allows more profit further up the chain.

The Anglo-Saxon settler states (the USA/Canada/ Australia/UK etc.) are the prime examples of this logic.

The ideal worker is docile-- they work long hours expecting little reward and without complaint-- they are productive-- they work a lot-- and they are fearing-- they must be constantly worred about what happens if they fall sick/retire/lose their jobs/get in a car crash, and so on.

The society is put in place that encourages these ways of thinking. Although the typical liberal view is to imagine the laws of democracies as to be basically negative-- you can do something unless we say otherwise-- in fact, the sheer quantity of legislation that infests life in these advanced economies, is intended to shoehorn every person (lets call them subjects) into this one life.

The Thai life cannot be described as a success from this regime's point of view. The subjects just don't make good factory workers. It follows they have no "competitive advantage" in this area (*this term is a technical term widely used in economics). So they are a 'failure' by this viewpoint. And many of the farangs living in Thailand are similar 'failures'.

But I point out the tendency of farang on this forum to almost desperately set themselves out as 'winners' despite the definition being defined by such a nasty regime.

Now this is complex. Look to the work of Ong (at UCLA, I think) for more on this notion of an anthropological analysis of Neoliberalism, and for the productive,docile subject read some Foucault.

And as for Ulysses G., shame on you. You own a bookstore-- from memory-- you should perhaps open some of the books on the bookshelves.

Familiar with Horace ? Brevis esse laboro, obscurus fio.

Is that the same as using three words when one will do?

[crazygreg44]

I sincerely hope the aforementioned leads to our all enlightment on how PRIVILEGED we all are , lucky to have been born on the "right" side of the big water, wild west trapper times long past, we have been "ductile & servient" in a degree that has earned us a pension or the ability and knowledge on how to hustle on your neighbours. I understand gaancha very well in what he refers to. And to the original poster, the shock he woke up to after he had to leave the land of milk and honey , plus his health insufficiencies, must have been horrible. I include my best wishes for his wellgoing and may he be able to return to the paradise of the Privileged Few. To know what one has lost is to know the real value of a thing. Not from a materialistic view, but from knowing your privileges. I am thanking it on my knees every day . . .

Wow! There's some seriously subjugated people on here? It makes me wonder about what sort of life you made for yourselves before coming over here, you reap what sow. It seems most didn't choose the right life nor right place to live in their home country but there is green grass on both sides it just depends on how you fertilize and maintain your own spot in life.. The only one putting pressure on you to keep up with the Jones's is you. I suspect that many here couldn't do that back home but have just enough to put them ahead here so they get their ego's stroked more and that is more where their happiness comes from,sad really..

Personally I feel it's far more courageous and the mark of strong character of someone who can move in either direction without a major breakdown. Life is all about experiences or so it should be and if one doesn't suit you you try something else but too often people fall into a rut and forego the effort it takes as I do recognize, based on what is posted often times, that many here are very sheltered on life's experiences and then when someone who hasn't limited themselves posts up they get the hair standing up the back of their neck about that experience they lack and someone else has, saying they can't have experienced so much just because they haven't..

I see the same thing happening here, this is not the paradise some have deluded themselves into thinking it is but that all depends on what you came from and what you made of it..

Personally I can go anywhere and mostly be happy but some things eventually grate on me and it's time to move on and experiencing new things, locations and challenges as I'm not at all impressed with bars or the girls that inhabit them so that leaves very little to do here that is of interest with a family to consider or even just by myself, back home no problems the clean entertainment is endless if one chooses..

My Mom used to say, if you can't make a fortune in your home country, then chances are low that you make it elsewhere.

It takes a certain breed of men to reach the inevitable .. to become successful in a place called Thailand.

.. what I said is that everyone, the failed, the desillusioned, the dreamers and the drinkers, can all come to Thailand. . . they have the money and will survive. . at least for a certain spell.

If you was a failure at home, and dreaming to change it to being a success in Thailand . . I wish ya good luck . . and please don 't cheat others...

If you was a successor , and come to Thailand to reap your harvests.. welcome . . ain 't no better place to go . .keep your profile low . .

remember this song :

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution,

Take a bow for the new revolution,

Smile and grin at the change all around,

Pick up my guitar and play

Just like yesterday.

Then I'll get on my knees and pray,

We don't get fooled again!

Yeaaah ...

Meet the new boss,

Same as the old boss!

just don't come here and think it is your right to drool along . . keep a high profile is accepted by most Thais . . .

I am not what Warpspeed thinks .. i have been successful in my country, and came to Thailand for holiday and fell in love with it.

I have a master in dental technics, i worked as a laborer heavy, a deckhand, i bowed my back as a beer trujck driver, I founded my own company and going into the 29 th year I am happy it is prospering and enables me to live like semi-retired.

This small business keeps dripping some dough, I was wise enough not to sell out and split. I have worked HARD for all . My base is in Europe AND in Thailand.

I do not work in Thailand as I do not have to . .up to now. Why bother with work permits and such? But I will not hesitate to pop up my business concept

if I ever have to. I got the brains for it and will use them. To be privileged , as mentioned in my post, means I am totally aware that

I got educated in the Farang World,, better MOM-i-fied , nurtured , plainly I got more white matter than a common Thai.

My Mom's comment - if you can t make it at home, how do you think it will work for you in a foreign world - implies that you can return home,

desillusioned but rich of adventure and experience. Yes, there are so many freeboothers here. Live and let live !

Living in Thailand, I have given up some stereotypes I used to live up in the west. Also, I have become more humble, and more

pragmatic. The country shapes the mind. I am a foreign matter transplanted to the sticks, and will always be, no matter how well i master the language

and succumb to the culture.

Take it as a chance to change. Don t try to copy your past life , paste yourself into this environment. And better start to love it. Don 't dream of

"home" . . .

[venturalaw]

And as for Ulysses G., shame on you. You own a bookstore-- from memory-- you should perhaps open some of the books on the bookshelves.

UG apparently has read enough books to recognize pretentious twaddle when he sees it (which I chose to delete in this reply for it serves no purpose).

[JSixpack]

And as for Ulysses G., shame on you. You own a bookstore-- from memory-- you should perhaps open some of the books on the bookshelves.

UG apparently has read enough books to recognize pretentious twaddle when he sees it (which I chose to delete in this reply for it serves no purpose).

True, UG apparently has.

O please Mr. Mod may I have just a bit of fun with the twaddle before the thread is closed by interjecting the rare bit of common sense? It's just so hard to resist. Promise I'll add in some relevance to the OP in the middle, so it's not completely off topic.

Well, I've always chuckled at Samuel Johnson's pragmatic refutation of Bishop Berkeley as recounted by Boswell:

After we came out of the church, we stood talking for some time together of Bishop Berkeley's ingenious sophistry to prove the nonexistence of matter, and that every thing in the universe is merely ideal. I observed, that though we are satisfied his doctrine is not true, it is impossible to refute it. I never shall forget the alacrity with which Johnson answered, striking his foot with mighty force against a large stone, till he rebounded from it -- "I refute it thus."

OK, I guess the rules require me to give the twaddle in full:

I think the best part is escaping the neoliberal capitalist mechanisms of producing the docile, productive, fearing subject. Its inanane architecture points out the winners (the docile, productive ones) and the losers (those with lives).

I feel privileged to have escaped it since becoming an adult. But it still amazes me that TV members go to inordinate lengths to big up their-- neoliberal-defined-- status. Their full-time jobs since retirement are status anxiety and reputational damage control.

So, while the OP, vaguely speaks of the "relaxed people", I think this is what he might be grasping at. As an economist recently said: manufacturing is not an area of competitive advantage for the Thais. Or in my language, the Thais don't behave as the neoliberal capitalist demands. Or on the other hand, maybe he just means they really are relaxed people...

I feel privileged at my lengthy time in Thailand.

But now to reply to each point:

> I think the best part is escaping the neoliberal capitalist

> mechanisms of producing the docile, productive, fearing

> subject.

You mean, for you the best part is escaping to authoritarian, corrupt, manipulated quasi-capitalist, state-sponsored religious, military, and police mechanisms of producing the docile, UNproductive, fearing subject? (Literal subject, as in subject of a Kingdom). Not to mention impoverished, ignorant, superstitious, incurious, and fatalistic--with notable exceptions, perhaps those who have embraced neoliberalism?

Now, where do people have to stop and pretend to be statues in public places at 6:00 PM? In which country are some important areas of speech restricted by threat of imprisonment? In which country are police generally feared and despised?

Says it all, really. No need to multiply examples.

Anyway, what effect could those other "mechanisms" possibly have upon such an enlightened person as yourself?

> Its inanane architecture points out the winners (the

> docile, productive ones) and the losers (those with lives).

As an architect, Frank Lloyd Wright, neither docile nor lacking in a colorful life, produced some astonishingly original structures for which he won prestigious awards.

Let's use language precisely.

>

> I feel privileged to have escaped it since becoming an adult.

When was that, and have you ever visited Thailand since the escape?

> But

> it still amazes me that TV members go to inordinate lengths to big

> up their-- neoliberal-defined-- status. Their full-time jobs since

> retirement are status anxiety and reputational damage control.

Huh? What member would go to any such length? Who has any such job?

But since this is precisely what you're doing by your own posts, probably your view is merely a projection of self onto others. You see, if the end is the same, then whether it's shoehorned into "neoliberal" or not doesn't really matter. This is not to flame, but to enlighten.

Now, TV members, get down to it, are largely concerned with birds, beer, ball, and bashing. Food, of course, is always a rousing topic. Family types are concerned with family matters such as where their kids can receive a decent education.

Since in Thailand

• a lot of desirable stuff, neoliberal or not, is much cheaper owing to economic distortions and mismanagement;
  
• visas are fairly easy to get;
  
• the weather's great, scenery's good;
  
• the people are ostensibly friendly; and
  
• a different, and Third World, culture is always interesting and kinda fun anyway,
  

then the motivation for living in Thailand, if you can afford it, is easily understood. No need to resort to lofty levels of abstraction and confused pseudo-intellectualism (replete with misspellings) for explanation.

OP, you just need to find a similar environment back home--an Asian community there, for example. I once found it by living near San Francisco's Chinatown.

Now, as opposed to our TV members, Thais are some of the most status-conscious and conforming people on the planet, inevitably so in such a hierarchical society. Typically a Thai accepts his/her own personal status and doesn't try very hard to change it except by buying things with which to show off, preferably with other people's money. (But there are many exceptions.)

The endless obsession with face-saving is a logical correlative.

In most cases, the only chance of really changing that status for the better is through private business to the extent Thailand is a capitalistic free market.

>

> So, while the OP, vaguely speaks of the "relaxed people", I think

> this is what he might be grasping at.

No, he wasn't grasping at anything. You see, you're doing all the grasping.

He merely meant what he said; relaxed is well-defined, commonly understood, and perfectly applicable as anyone knows who lives in Thailand.

I would only add that things aren't so relaxed beneath the surface.

> As an economist recently said:

> manufacturing is not an area of competitive advantage for the Thais.

A statement that, even if having some validity in the manufacturing area, has at best some peripheral, unhelpful connection--a connection for which you've offered merely a tendentious post hoc "argument"--as to why your average farang sod, bless 'im, might want to live in Thailand and why the OP misses it.

Edited October 13, 2011 by JSixpack

[soomak]

I think the best part is escaping the neoliberal capitalist mechanisms of producing the docile, productive, fearing subject. Its inanane architecture points out the winners (the docile, productive ones) and the losers (those with lives).

I feel privileged to have escaped it since becoming an adult. But it still amazes me that TV members go to inordinate lengths to big up their-- neoliberal-defined-- status. Their full-time jobs since retirement are status anxiety and reputational damage control.

So, while the OP, vaguely speaks of the "relaxed people", I think this is what he might be grasping at. As an economist recently said: manufacturing is not an area of competitive advantage for the Thais. Or in my language, the Thais don't behave as the neoliberal capitalist demands. Or on the other hand, maybe he just means they really are relaxed people...

I feel privileged at my lengthy time in Thailand.

Didn't understand a word of that, but your happy, so, cool.

I can understand how you feel. A deep point can require certain concepts that if unfamiliar can leave the reader bewildered.

I think the core points are understanding the concept of a neoliberal regime. This concept is the notion that there is a specific way of doing that has developed in recent times that is associated with the free flow of finance.

This regime pushes the costs onto the individual persons. So, for example, each and every person must be made to be concerned with their health, the risks they take, their financial provisions. This way of pushing responsibilities down the chain allows more profit further up the chain.

The Anglo-Saxon settler states (the USA/Canada/ Australia/UK etc.) are the prime examples of this logic.

The ideal worker is docile-- they work long hours expecting little reward and without complaint-- they are productive-- they work a lot-- and they are fearing-- they must be constantly worred about what happens if they fall sick/retire/lose their jobs/get in a car crash, and so on.

The society is put in place that encourages these ways of thinking. Although the typical liberal view is to imagine the laws of democracies as to be basically negative-- you can do something unless we say otherwise-- in fact, the sheer quantity of legislation that infests life in these advanced economies, is intended to shoehorn every person (lets call them subjects) into this one life.

The Thai life cannot be described as a success from this regime's point of view. The subjects just don't make good factory workers. It follows they have no "competitive advantage" in this area (*this term is a technical term widely used in economics). So they are a 'failure' by this viewpoint. And many of the farangs living in Thailand are similar 'failures'.

But I point out the tendency of farang on this forum to almost desperately set themselves out as 'winners' despite the definition being defined by such a nasty regime.

Now this is complex. Look to the work of Ong (at UCLA, I think) for more on this notion of an anthropological analysis of Neoliberalism, and for the productive,docile subject read some Foucault.

And as for Ulysses G., shame on you. You own a bookstore-- from memory-- you should perhaps open some of the books on the bookshelves.

A lot of words, but I'm afraid not much logic...

Thais work longer hours than people in my home country.

And they are less productive and educated, thus their salaries are much lower.

So they work more, make less money, and have less social security (pensions, unemployment, health plans, etc).

After all, all those TV members on retirement visa receiving pensions from their home country, owe their great life here to this western neoliberal stuff you talked about, which allowed them to save money and receive pensions.

[theblether]

For most of us......our greatest victory in life.......was being born to good parents in the right country.

Everything else has been a result of this luck.

[MAJIC]

I think the best part is escaping the neoliberal capitalist mechanisms of producing the docile, productive, fearing subject. Its inanane architecture points out the winners (the docile, productive ones) and the losers (those with lives).

I feel privileged to have escaped it since becoming an adult. But it still amazes me that TV members go to inordinate lengths to big up their-- neoliberal-defined-- status. Their full-time jobs since retirement are status anxiety and reputational damage control.

So, while the OP, vaguely speaks of the "relaxed people", I think this is what he might be grasping at. As an economist recently said: manufacturing is not an area of competitive advantage for the Thais. Or in my language, the Thais don't behave as the neoliberal capitalist demands. Or on the other hand, maybe he just means they really are relaxed people...

I feel privileged at my lengthy time in Thailand.

Any chance of a English Translation,of the above?

[theblether]

I think the best part is escaping the neoliberal capitalist mechanisms of producing the docile, productive, fearing subject. Its inanane architecture points out the winners (the docile, productive ones) and the losers (those with lives).

I feel privileged to have escaped it since becoming an adult. But it still amazes me that TV members go to inordinate lengths to big up their-- neoliberal-defined-- status. Their full-time jobs since retirement are status anxiety and reputational damage control.

So, while the OP, vaguely speaks of the "relaxed people", I think this is what he might be grasping at. As an economist recently said: manufacturing is not an area of competitive advantage for the Thais. Or in my language, the Thais don't behave as the neoliberal capitalist demands. Or on the other hand, maybe he just means they really are relaxed people...

I feel privileged at my lengthy time in Thailand.

Any chance of a English Translation,of the above?

What he is trying to say is that people who follow effectively the capitalist system of existing are no more than bit parts in a machine, who then spend the rest of their lives justifying their existence and their "wasted lives" in his elitist view. We products of capitalist societies are mere pawns as he sees it.

By dint, people who follow a more Agrarian ( ie agricultural based, barter and self sufficient system ) are in a way more superior as they don't go chasing the benefits of capitalist progress. This is the kind of philosophical left wing garbage promulgated by elitist snobs of a certain type and vintage. They use these terms to try and prove they are superior to the rest of us with their psychobabble.

Here is the reality, capitalism has been the greatest left wing instrument in human history, and it will continue to be so for evermore. People throughout the world have been lifted from squalor and pain in immense numbers by capitalism. Here in Thailand, where absolute poverty is still rife in many areas, there are people accessing basic health care services which were unheard of 30 years ago. Many of these medications have been researched, invented and produced by major capitalist companies such as Smithkline Beecham, who after an agreed period of protection of their patent, so that they can recuperate their money, then release the patent and allow generic copies of their drugs to be made cheaply, hence helping the poorest people in the world.

People like the guy that posted this garbage have their place, their is nothing wrong in preaching a gospel of agrarian existence, however!! once they choose to use language that is unintelligible to many they are no longer preaching but boasting and boosting their own feelings of superiority. These guys feel most at home amongst the uneducated of the world hence why they hide in the hills of Thailand, where they will find solace in not having to justify their arguments to other worldly wise people.

There is an oft quoted any many attributed anecdote which goes along the lines of this ................. a journalist asks a Japanese businessman which language is the most important in the world, to which he replied " My customers".

Quite simply, if your words cannot be understood, then they are worthless.

[LindsayBKK]

Good Luck mate, your health is always no:1

<br><font class="sqq"><br>The one thing I remember about Australia was that my

father used to take me out in a boat about ten miles offshore on

Christmas Day, and I used to have to swim back. Extraordinary. It was a

ritual. Mind you, that wasn't the hard part. The difficult bit was

getting out of the sack.</font><br><font class="sqq"></font>

Edited October 13, 2011 by LindsayBKK

[bonobo]

Maybe the cat is jumping on his keyboard.

Off-topic, but my cat really did jump on my keyboard while I was moderating this thread and put the computer to sleep!